Boston Fans Revisited
What do Dane Cook, Bill Simmons, and yours truely have in common? Well, aside from the fact that we're all from the Boston area, we all happen to be mentioned in Kelly Dwyer's take on my question about Boston fans being obnoxious.
I enjoyed his take and liked this part especially:
Pro sports are a series of random events, bad GMs tend to meet up with bad owners and lousy coaches who take on disappointing players - and, before you know it -- you've gone a few decades without a title. It happens. Every city goes through it, at varying and random lengths. It doesn't mean you pity the fans.
Unless, of course, they turn out. And Boston fans turned out. They stuck with their teams, offered sober analysis when ready, and lost their you-know-what when little bouts of oh-my-god turned up. So you'll have to excuse me when I give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, they can be act like Sidney Wicks' last name; but we're also dealing with a pretty big fan base, so these things tend to happen. Stupid goatees also tend to result.
In other news, Henry Abbott looks back at the JA Adande piece and at today's John Gonzalez Boston Magazine article on Boston's rep amongst athletes for being a racist city. He centers on the fact that few if any people want to comment on the subject. He quotes John:
The city's reputation for racism endures because we don't want to talk about it, because the press seems more interested in reporting on the controversy than in initiating a useful dialogue, because athletes are more careful today than they've ever been.
I find this to be the central problem with this issue. What is an individual's motivation to talk about race in an intelligent way?
Speaking as a white, middle class male, I don't feel qualified to speak authortively on the subject, despite growing up with many black friends that I played basketball with all my life. More importantly, I run the risk of upsetting any number of people by saying virtually anything on the subject. I actually started to write a post in reaction to the Adande article a week or so ago. But about two paragraphs in, I stopped, read what I wrote and decided "I don't see anything controversial at all about what I've just written, but I'm sure someone somewhere will." So I stopped writing and deleted the post. That's just sad.
The greater good of discussing race is absolutely important in the grander scheme of things. I suppose the problem is that the pain of doing so and having to answer to accusations of having the wrong point of view discourage such talk.
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i think, that if the perception of boston as a racist city and the celtics franchise in particular exists among nba players, its pure ignorance of nba history. Celtics broke the color barrier in basketball, and started the first all black team.
some of our favriote players of all time are African American, bill, the chief, DJ,paul, even dare i say cedric maxwell.
The most racist city I’ve ever visited was Johannesburg before aparteid, but Los Angeles is a close second. The police in LA routinely beat up blacks on routine traffic stops, and there is plenty of film to prove it.
As I’ve said before, Boston is no more or no less racist than any American city. The stereotype of Boston as blue collar Irish and Italian is false, and has been false for many years. Now there are way more Brazilians and Dominicans than Italians, and most of those folks are people of color. Even Irish strongholds like Southie and West Roxbury have diversified.
Boston/Mass is more ethinic than many other cities around (Like cities as New York, Chicago) were not racist at all. Many other parts of the countries are not as diversed as our city of Boston.
I’ve traveled to many parts of the country and its very different, especially in the south.
We have our China Towns, our North Ends, our South Bostons, etc, as I mentioned you don’t find that in many parts of the cities else where.
Most, if not all, misunderstandings are a result of poor communication. Bias and prejudice can “jade” even clear communication. Thus Jeff’s reluctance to offer his “take” on the stereotyping of Boston as a “racist” city. Can Jeff really say anything that mutual DISTRUST won’t misinterpret?
Not all “whites” are racist nor are all “blacks” racist. To be sure, there are racists among blacks and whites and others of “color”. The resulting “inhumanity” from these warring factions keeps the controversy alive and its “mother” is IGNORANCE, INTOLERANCE, and PREJUDICE.
Strange that all of us have “mingled” with people of color as teammates in various sports. Strange that these teammates can become close friends and diminish past prejudices. Except for SKIN tone (and perhaps cultural differences) these same guys don’t “fit” the divisive stereotype that divides society. Perhaps having a common goal as teammates makes us better “partners”?
I went to school in Boston in the 60s and returned 15 years later to take a nostalic walk through Roxbury (as I often did in the 60s). A group of intimidating blacks followed me in a manner that suggested trouble. Unaware of the racial bitterness that had occurred during my 15 year absence, I was ignorant of the my predicament.
As I strolled down the street with growing awareness of the closing pursuit, I was joined by another black who had witnessed my plight from his home. He said…“Man, what are YOU doing here walking all alone”? I told him that I recently returned to the city and was taking a similar walk I had taken many times in the past. He said that alot has happened since then …“but if I walk WITH you, you’ll be safe here”…
He walked with me for half a mile…I was safe…In the same manner that I walked in the military with a man of color at my side. We were BOTH safe because we WALKED TOGETHER!
by moskqq on Jan 4, 2008 7:13 AM EST reply actions
Here is my take on the New England sports hate:
There seems to be a transition taking place now. It’s something that I think non-New England fans either think happened in 2004, or hope it will happen in just a few seconds before someone sparks up a conversation with a NE fan. It’s this: we’re expected to love being hated. As soon as the final out in 2004, we were supposed to undergo this immediate metamorphosis into Yankees, Cowboys, Raiders fans or what have you.
Now, I hate to play the “our-teams-were abysmal-for-so-long” futility card, but I don’t think I have a choice. To me, it seems that out of market fans have rather lofty expectations on how well, and how soon, Boston fans should be able to deal with this backlash in stride. After loyally supporting crap teams for so long, the “woe-is-me” meme is proving to be a tough one to crack. We’re used to having others pity us, or at least laughing at our awfulness.
So, I’m calling for a grace period (which I know is pointless and will never happen) until after the Celtics season. I figure that 3 and a half years is enough time for a paradigm shift of these proportions take place. Once the Celtics’ season is over, if there are still a large preponderance of fans acting like jerkfaces, then they should be dealt with in the harshest of ways acceptable within the realm of fandom.
On Boston’s ‘racist’ perception:
I think the main thing that people overlook when accusing the Boston Celtics atmosphere of the 80’s as being racist, in some way or another, is that they WON CHAMPIONSHIPS. Is that not the point? To assemble championship caliber teams and then actually go on to win championships? So, the players happened to be white, but they won championships. What is so hard to understand about that? Is it because two authors from NY, along with Spike Lee, created group-think memes and the addle-minded masses just followed lockstep?
Do people not understand that it was Len Bias who was going to be the next great Celtic player throughout the 90’s? Sure, there was a much higher percentage of people who were outwardly racist in Boston during the 50’s, but guess what? The same can be said for almost every single city and town in the United States back then.
It’s sad that people can be so unthinking; incapable of reasoning through these sorts of tabloid talking points.
I think its right for people in Boston to talk about race. Here is my generalized non-politically correct take on the issue. I’ve worked in and lived around Boston for most of my life (31 year old white male) and the issue is just there and its not talked about (more talking more recently though). I think there are a lot of New England liberals who would openly profess to be completely supportive of blacks to the point of even electing them governor but have few actual blacks friends or neighbors or coworkers. They would like more black friends, are deeply embarassed by this issue and wish it would just go away. I think the same can be said for the affluent areas of Boston itself including Beacon Hill, Brookline etc. Some old neighborhoods are taking a while to integrate. And there are still some ignorant people kicking around. But not as many as before. But its going to take a long time to shed the reputation because its out there and as long as someone you know heard the n-word being said in Boston, it reinforces the stereotype. As far as the Celts go, the organization: especially thanks to Red has been progressive if not always the fans. And I think the Celts of the 80s was taken by a lot of fans as the “Great White Hope” of the basketball world. The Sox organization historically had some racism in the past but has obviously cleaned up. Compared to other cities, I think Boston has gotten its act together a little later and has some hangover from that. But a lot of American cities still have race problems. The only other thing is demographics. Considering the price of housing and the fact that the state is losing population that may take a while to change. FYI: this post is flawed and about a sensitive subject, but I didn’t delete it.
As a white male that grew up in Queens,NY and have lived in Denver, Chicago and now Boston..here’s my two cents…Boston is no better or worse than any other city…racism is a product of ignorance not location….
by Fastbreak on Jan 4, 2008 2:16 PM EST reply actions
Beyond the issue of the exact amount of racism existant in Boston and the city’s perception, is an issue Jeff made glaringly apparent when he wrote: “But about two paragraphs in, I stopped, read what I wrote and decided "I don’t see anything controversial at all about what I’ve just written, but I’m sure someone somewhere will.” So I stopped writing and deleted the post. That’s just sad."
Jeff’s reluctance to articulate his beliefs for the fear that they may be controversial, a sentiment seemingly widely held amongst people, is perhaps the most troubling aspect to this or any discussion of any issue. Jeff, I’m truly interested: Why the fear of controversy? Articulating your beliefs is what one’s role as a writer constitutes, so if someone is reluctant to express beliefs for fear of “controversy” I must wonder whether he/she is truly just afraid of either the effort necessary to justify those beliefs, or the possibility of having those beliefs changed. Your reluctance to me seems similar to the lament that’s the subject of the Boston Magazine piece cited in your post. And ultimately, this saddens me. Now, while I don’t think controversy should be deliberately sought out, stating one’s earnest beliefs for fear of “controversy” should never be the case. Otherwise, we all lose the opportunity for discussion and ultimately that chance to change someone else’s thinking or have one’s own thinking changed. And that opportunity is at the root of all writing and communication, and in truth, even this very site.

































