Daily Babble: Defend-and-Dunk Frontcourt Makes Nets Dangerous Once More
by Steve Weinman on Jan 7, 2008 1:20 AM EST
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PrintDon't look now, but the New Jersey Nets are heating up.
They have won five in a row to creep back ahead of Toronto in the Atlantic Division and into sixth place in the Eastern Conference. But the seedings on January 7 aren't what matter. The fact that this team is suddenly playing much better basketball is.
That 'better basketball' serves as an indicator of how important it is to have even a moderately competent front court. For close to 25 games to star the season, the Nets didn't. But with Josh Boone and Sean Williams playing forward and center, this team is playing its best ball of the young season.
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The word has long been out on the Nets' big three: Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter are all very talented, but they are all perimeter players, and both good defensive teams and poor shooting nights can shut the Nets down. Throw in VC's trademark flakiness, and it is no surprise that this has been a very erratic team over the last few seasons.
But the three studs in question are immensely talented, and most nights, all they will need is some help to take opposing attention off of them, and they will be good to go. Some. As in some defense, and some dunking.
There are many pundits who aren't high on Williams and Boone because they don't play particularly pretty games, especially on the offensive end. Neither possesses great touch or is a great shooter, and the character issues about Williams have long abounded. That said, neither Malik Allen nor Jason Collins (their two predecessors in the frontcourt) possess those pretty offensive games either. In fact, neither of those latter two players have much of anything besides experience at this point that makes them assets to the Nets at either end of the floor. Williams and Boone both like to play defense and rebound, and both are capable of setting good hard screens and doing a lot of dunking. Ladies and gentlemen, it is that simple.
Neither of the neophytes (once again, much love to Walt Frazier) is the next coming of greatness at center. But both of them play smart games and know how to produce just enough. Both are averaging upwards of 50 percent shooting on the season and close to double-digit scoring as starters, though they are combining for barely 15 field goal attempts per game between them. Williams blocks 2.45 shots per game as a starter, and Boone has pulled down 8.3 boards per game since entering the lineup.
Boone and Williams are both young players with a lot of energy who love to get up and down the floor. Getting to run with Jason Kidd just means more dunks for both of them. For all his flaws, Vince Carter can be a fairly good passer when he wants to be, and Williams and Boone both know to be ready for opposing defenses to look to double both VC and Richard Jefferson on screen-and-rolls. This has led to no shortage of easy looks for the youngsters, many of which have been converted. Opponents are learning that they will have to at least show some modicum of respect for New Jersey's frontcourt on the interior, which wasn't necessary earlier in the season. This is opening up better looks for the three stars, as they are getting that much less attention, and this makes the entire offense work that much better. Combine that with the difference made by the presence of the long-armed string bean that is Williams and Boone's tenacity on the boards, and suddenly this talented but jump-shooting-reliant Nets team has made a quantum leap at both ends of the floor.
Just as suddenly, five straight wins for the Nets isn't a shock. Which means it is time to start keeping an eye on this team as it begins to make its run.
Even if no one in Jersey is.
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Always good to see Boone and Williams get some love. Pity it took Frank so long to figure it out. First day of training camp was all it should have …
Anyway, NJ are a nothing team. They’re still a borderline playoff squad that will get in depending on how long their two or three winning streaks end up being. They won’t challenge Toronto for 2nd in the Atlantic either.
If the two young players continue to play well and improve, the Nets will be more than a borderline playoff team. The injury to Krstic and his slow recovery really set the Nets back. He’s an above-average post player and makes them much more dangerous.
Sean Williams may not be a great player down the road, but I feel he could be a high-level center on par with guys like Kaman, Ben Wallace and Camby.
by lemonadesky on Jan 7, 2008 7:52 AM EST reply actions
The question for NJ is whether they have any scoring power, or general depth, off the bench – especially when ( and not if) one of their biggish three go out with injury. Kristic is claiming that he is ready to come back (though Frank disagrees) and Armstrong has been playing well for them at back-up PG , even if he is 40 yrs old. Marcus WIlliams also seems like he could be a player at the point going forward. However they don’t seem to have much help at the wings nor, as Steve mentioned, much offensive fire power (aside from Kristic) up front. Rod Thorn has been an above average GM and talent evaluator and they have brought in Kiki Vandewaghe too and I see NJ trying to make a move before the deadline. …Anyway, I am going to the game on Friday- got great seats – and I am psyched.
by Rick Robeys Return on Jan 7, 2008 9:30 AM EST reply actions
ok its obvious some of you clowns dont watch the games.
steve no one in jersey is keeping an eye on the nets?
please lets see how many people go to the celtics game if they were moving in 2 years. plus the commute to the arena is crazy, i bet if the nets would have moved to the prudential center in newark… we would have sold out every game. lemonadesky sean williams will be a very good player its his rookie year and he barely played last year in college so please give it a rest. and WHO the nets wont challenge toronto in the standings for second ? check the standings we past them already. and greenlove “older players fading” your big three vs our big three
kg ra pp = 58pts 19rb 11ast a game / jk vc rj = 56-17-16
not to mention jk has 8 triple doubles (more than the whole celtics team and maybe the nba )(jk is playing better than he was at 24) rj scoring has increased this year and vc is in chill mode. and out of both the big 3s only one of them are still in their 20s RJ.
by mike2red on Jan 7, 2008 11:59 AM EST reply actions
Who,
Given past comments, figured you’d be on board with my Williams-Boone sentiments. That said, I think you may have also noticed that I’m a bit more wary of this Nets team than you seem to be. They have a lot of firepower from their three scorers, and if they are getting anything in the front and off the bench, I’m not sure why they can’t be at least as dangerous as most of the East on a night-to-night basis.
Toronto just confuses me. They’ll beat the Spurs and Hornets on the road and then blow a 20-point lead to Cleveland. I have a long way to go before I can say anything coherent about that team.
-sw
lemonadesky and nazzbo,
As both of you touched on, Krstic’s health — and apparently his mindset, too — is a major issue for this Nets team. I covered it in a piece earlier this year that might intrigue you:
http://mvn.com/nba-source/2007/11/25/worrisome-words-and-play-from-krstic/
Over the last couple of years, he had been well on his way to developing into a two low-post threat for this team. While Boone and Williams can finish around the rim as noted, Krstic looked like he had the capability to turn himself into a complete offensive player. To have him in the starting lineup and one of the two youngsters coming off the bench would be big for this group. His return remains uncertain, however, and beyond that, depth certainly remains an issue. Bostjan Nachbar stepped out of nowhere to have a career year for them last year (9.2 ppg), and he is currently scoring a point more per game (though his shooting efficacy is way down) in his contract year this season, but I’m not sure how far a team goes with Nachbar and Armstrong (now eligible for AARP discounts) as the studs off the bench.
-sw
Rick Robeys Return,
Wholly agreed regarding Thorn and Kiki, and if this time continues to play well, I’d expect them to make a move as well (further agreement about your other points in the comment above).
I’ll be at the game as well on Friday, my first chance to see our boys in person this year. I’ll be firmly planted up in the rafters (or somewhere in that area), but hey, as long as I’m in the building, no complaints here. I’m stoked. Sadly, I’m headed back out of town by the time the MLK game at MSG rolls around.
-sw
mike2red said:
ok its obvious some of you clowns dont watch the games.
steve no one in jersey is keeping an eye on the nets?
please lets see how many people go to the celtics game if they were moving in 2 years. plus the commute to the arena is crazy, i bet if the nets would have moved to the prudential center in newark… we would have sold out every game. lemonadesky sean williams will be a very good player its his rookie year and he barely played last year in college so please give it a rest. and WHO the nets wont challenge toronto in the standings for second ? check the standings we past them already. and greenlove “older players fading” your big three vs our big three
kg ra pp = 58pts 19rb 11ast a game / jk vc rj = 56-17-16
not to mention jk has 8 triple doubles (more than the whole celtics team and maybe the nba )(jk is playing better than he was at 24) rj scoring has increased this year and vc is in chill mode. and out of both the big 3s only one of them are still in their 20s RJ.
mike2red,
I wasn’t assessing blame one way or the other, but the fact of the matter is that regardless of cause, this team isn’t being watched, and the numbers back it up. I don’t know what the TV ratings are — so maybe they’re breaking the bank with the YES Network, in which case I’ll be the first to tell you I’m wrong, although I have my doubts that this is the case — but the numbers back me up so far as attendance is concerned. The Nets rank 22nd in the league in average attendance with just over 15,000 fans showing up per game, and they rank 25th in capacity filled, at 75.1 percent. Having been to the Izod Center recently (see some of my initial comments at the beginning of this column for details: http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2100&Itemid=241), I recognize the problems with the situation. I realize that it’s a pain to get to the arena, that the arena isn’t anything special and that the team is moving. But the crowd at the Izod Center is lifeless, and the fact of the matter is that the fans weren’t showing up in droves when the team went to the Finals in 2003, long before moving to Brooklyn was a done deal (in 2002-03, the Nets were 23rd in average attendance and 26th in capacity filled, though both actual figures were slightly higher than their numbers this season at 15, 184 and 75.7 percent). I don’t know where to point the finger, and chances are it is some combination of the fans, the team and the circumstances. That said, the truth still remains: There are not a lot of people watching this Nets team.
Regarding your comment to lemonadesky, I’m not entirely sure what you’re complaint is. Lemon’s comment about Williams becoming a Kaman-type player was intended to be a compliment, so far as I read it. But if you’re going to trumpet that he didn’t play much in college, please, please, please make sure you make it clear that he didn’t play much last year because he was thrown off the team for substance abuse problems at BC. Paints a bit of a different picture, no? Character counts, too. As I wrote in this column and another one two weeks ago, I like Williams, but I think I would frame it a bit differently than you did…
…continued in the next comment below…
…continued to mike2red…
Finally, I’m not entirely sure what you were getting at with your comparisons between the Nets’ and Celtics’ respective trios of stars, but I’m happy to take a moment to clear up a few matters concerning what you said. Providing simply their points, rebounds and assists numbers does a great injustice to what has actually been occurring on the basketball floor this season. Yes, the offensive numbers for the big three are similar, but the game isn’t determined on those three numbers. I would hasten to remind you of the difference Garnett makes on the defensive end of the floor, not just with the presence that he provides but in how he has inspired his teammates (notably the longtime defensive question mark that is Paul Pierce) to put in more intensity on that end of the floor. Perhaps more than any other reason, the Celtics have won because of their defense this season, and that statistics reflect that: The Celts sit first in the league in defensive efficiency by a long shot, as they are the only team to allow less than 100 points per 100 possessions (96.7 to be exact). The next closest figure is Detroit’s 103.0. Meanwhile, the Nets sit comfortably ensconced at 16th in defensive efficiency at 107.5 points allowed per 100 possessions. Similarly, the Celts squad of veterans (the big three plus Posey, House, Scalabrine et al.) and oft-questioned youngsters (Rondo, Perk, the Pugnacious Papoose Davis) has used ball movement and offensive balance to become on of the league’s most effective offensive teams, sitting at fifth in offensive efficiency with 112.1 points scored per 100 possessions. By comparison, the Nets are 24th in that department with 103.5 points per 100 possessions. Again, I’m not entirely sure what the purpose of the Celts-Nets comparison was but figured that a few more statistics might shed some light on the greater picture in that regard, if the won-loss record hasn’t already taken care of that matter.
Clearly, we aren’t on the same page about everything here, but discussion is what it’s all about, and I look forward to hearing more from you.
-sw
steve, steve, steve, where do i began?
ok my point about the people showing to the games was that the nets will be gone in two years maybe …. the arena holds 19, 968 and according to you we average a little over 15000 per game i think thats pretty damn good! and last time i checked the yes network was doing pretty good broadcasting the nets in fact they air the game twice after the actual showing, once later that night and once that following morning around 9:00.
as far as sean williams go anybody who watched the draft knows about his pass problems pertaining to “weed” . so thats why i didnt feel the need to state that. and in this case character didnt really
matter because he still went in the first round in the top 20. while players like josh mcroberts and glen davis slipped to the second round. now if sean chose not to smoke “weed” (he probaly would have been a lottery pick) then we would not had been so lucky to get him.
the reason i made the comparisons with the nets big three and the celts big three, was because greenlove implied that the nets big three was fading so i just put the numbers out there to show how much they are fading.
however i am aware that those three categories dont win games….evidently by the win loss comparison betweem the two teams.
oh yea sean williams avgs 2 blocks, .57 steals and 1 to… while kg avgs 1.50 blks, 1.50 stl, and 2 to
BUT sean williams does his in limited mins
i know .. its kinda insane to compare the two but those are the numbers!!! lol
by mike2red on Jan 7, 2008 9:26 PM EST reply actions
mike,
Again, while 15,000 fans might be 15,000 more than the number of people who would pay to see me play pick up, and it sure sounds like a nice number, it doesn’t cut it for a professional basketball team. The numbers I cited regarding capacity and the Nets’ league rankings in attendance (actual and proportional) illustrate this. I’m also aware of how YES works, and I wasn’t suggesting that it isn’t a successful network (although you may consider that the encore editions of the game have more to do with lack of programming than anything else; why do you think they show about fourteen hours of Mike and the Dog every day?). My point there was simply that unless the Nets are doing out-of-this-world with YES, the attendance simply won’t cut it. And it doesn’t.
You don’t have to convince me about Sean. You may want to search back in my archives — I’ve got a column about him from a few weeks back, where I talk about how much I’m rooting for him to kick his character issues and succeed. He has the capability to be an unbelievable shot blocker, and as you’ve noted statistically, he is already on his way. If he can take care of his personal life and develop the rest of his game, there is plenty great potential.
Thanks for clarifying the point about the big three comparison. Just wanted to make sure it wasn’t meant to be a greater comparison of the two teams framed that way.
Safe to say the numbers don’t tell the story about Sean and KG. Hard to see Danny entertaining too many straight-up offers anytime soon. But I agree that Williams has been effective this season.
Thanks again for writing in. You’re always welcome here.
-sw
Steve,
Where we differ isn’t on Williams and Boone. It’s on Kidd-RJ-Vince. That’s where I believe 85% of their problems lie.
They don’t complement one another and that’s why their offenses struggles and has many rough periods.
Nets will do well just to make the playoffs with those guys as their 3 best players. Simply not good enough and not complementary enough.
Who,
I’m not even sure we differ on that issue all that much either, with the exception of how far the team can go. I’m no booster of VC’s. His attitude has long been terrible, and his game can lean toward the inefficient side when his head isn’t in it.
That said, I still love Kidd’s game, and I think that RJ has the athleticism and understanding of how to play the game needed to play effectively with Kidd. My only problem with the core is VC, but ultimately, he remains an immense physical talent and a source of plenty of talent. In a conference in which I’m still not fully sold on anybody outside of our beloved C’s and the quickly-becoming-newly-hated Pistons, I’m not sure the Nets are as much of a dead duck as you are.
But I think our thoughts about the unit as a basketball team actually align more than it may appear.
-sw
Okay this is my question: If you were offered any three players off another team who’s trio would you take?
Present abilities only. Not picking guys based on their future.
Easily better: Boston, Cleveland, Denver, Detroit, Houston, Indiana, Lakers, Miami, Memphis, New Orleans, Phoenix, San Antonio, Utah … close calls but still definitely against NJ for Dallas, Golden State and Toronto
Debateable: Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, Milwaukee,
Worse: Minnesota, Phily, Seattle, Sacramento, New York
Teams i’ve left out: Clippers, Portland, Washington … because of injuries to Brand, Oden, Gilbert.
So I have them in the bottom 10 trio’s in the league or just scraping their by the skin of their noses above that. Below average anyway.
Thought I’d give some reasons for some choices that might surprise:
Indiana: I took them because of the floor balance their three best players offer. I went with Jermaine/Tinsley/Granger. Although Dunleavy pushed Granger hard for the 3rd slot, not entirely sure it is Granger. Quality point, low post presence and perimeter scoring and D.
Memphis: I’m very high on Conley already. I also have a huge amount of respect and admiration for Pau Gasol. Those two even the scales against NJ’s trio for me. Their third players tips the balance. I’m probably taking Mike Miller ahead of Rudy Gay, I’m not quite sure who their third best is.
Lakers: Kobe, Odom, Bynum were my three. Kobe gives them a lot of leeway with his MVP performance levels. Bynum does enough in the paint rebounding and blocking shots to be 3rd. Odom is a force on the glass and a playmaker going the other way. Odom’s struggles make this closer than it should be. He needs to lift his play. Still Lakers roll on.
Cleveland: LeBron/Gooden/Z are one of the league’s best frontcourts. Their second and third best players may be lacking a bit but when coupled with LeBron they take NJ’s trio.
Miami: Shaq has slowed down but he’s still one of the most dominant post players in the league. Just watch the respect and fear opposition teams treat him with. They know he can still score on whoever they got. Wade and Haslem with the other two. Decent balance but not great defensively. This was closer than it should have been because of the trio’s struggles all season. I haven’t been impressed with Wade’s decisions and how he’s dealt with his declining supporting cast. Shaq has obviously underperformed too and Haslem has been a huge disappointment. He’s incapable of being an go-to offensive option when Shaq is on the court, reverting back to being a stand still shooter only. Still this is enough to beat out NJ.
My debateables, these are the questions swirling inside my troubled mind.
Milwaukee cause me a headache. Redd and Bogut puts them in the conversation but with no third player stepping up it ruins their challenge. I have no admiration for Mo Williams. So it’s Yi/Charlie/Mason/Simmons and that doesn’t inspire confidence. If they had any credible starter to go with Bogut and Redd it would likely go Milwaukee but without it I’m likely going NJ … Still the presence of Bogut, with Redd’s scoring and say Charlie V … Not an easy thing to turn away from. I can’t decide.
Charlotte: Richardson/Okafor/Wallace. Felton is close to beating out Wallace for the 3rd slot. Not a lot of scoring but there is a lot of defense. Richardson is a legit 20ppg man, with Wallace around 15ppg and Okafor a double double guy. Hard to let that go despite some offensive issues. Again I can’t decide. Not a fan of this trio at all but it still might be better than NJ
Atlanta: Joe J/Horford/Smith. Smith is a little ahead of Marvin Williams right now. I go Atlanta but it’s a close call. Horford has more scoring then their guards are letting him show, plus he’s one of the league’s better rebounders already. Josh Smith is a walking talking mess but he sure does bring a variety of skills to table that are hard to ignore, his intelligence may stop him being a top player but he is certainly a good player. Joe Johnson well you know all that.
Chicago: Now this one causes me problems. Firstly who are their trio? I’m taking Deng, then who? Probably Joe Smith and either Gordon or Hinrich. Either way you go with the guards you either lack scoring or playmaking from the unit. Joe Smith gives you a lot of solid interior play but not enough to look to pass the difficulties the two others would have. Got to NJ with this one on reflection.
Starting to think on Phily … Andre Miller/Iggy/Dalembert isn’t far off from being is a serious question. Actually they’re debatable now because I can’t decide.
This is how little I think of NJ’s trio
If you’ve watched almost college game of Sean Williams career, there is one thing that is clear: he improves himself. As a freshman he was a one trick pony. He started getting into the offesnive game and playing better man as a sophomore. And as a junior, his posting, passing, and shooting all improved. I expect his offensive game to improve steadily in the pros.
mike2red is incorrect that he would have been a lottery pick, all indications were that Sean would have returned for his senior year if he had not been suspended. Anyways, I’m a huge fan – he meets the minimum test for a long NBA career: being able to do one thing very well. Before seeing BBD – I was wishing that DA could package the 2nd rounders for a 1st rounder that would get us Sean Williams. I suppose pre-KG trade that would have been risky, and keeping him in Boston would have been a bigger risk then we needed. But a top bench of Williams, Posey, and Tony Allen would provide defense across the board and been interesting.
As is I wonder if NJ should not make a trade with Knicks: Carter a big man for Randolph and a guard. Maybe a pick or cash getting thrown in depending on the extra players. Randolph would provide the offense from the low post (especially when teamed with Williams’ defense) and if the Nets could add a better defender who complimented Jefferson and Kidd it might make sense. Randolph’s deal is also a year less than Carter’s so a blow up would be easier if NJ goes that route.
Joe (NY): Are the Nets a lock to make the playoffs in the East if they avoid injuries??
SportsNation John Hollinger: (3:26 PM ET ) I would like their chances in taht event, but lock is really strong. Keep in mind this team is awful lucky to be 17-16 — they have the point diff of an 11-22 team and still have a big home-road disparity to make up. But they’ve played MUCH better since the frontcourt shakeup.
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