In Defense of Hollinger
The purpose of this post is less to defend Hollinger (he is, after all, the one in discussion who is gainfully employed as a full time sportswriter...I don't think he needs any defending from myself) than to attempt to correct some gross misconceptions observed on Celticsblog. The motivation is not so much due to how much or little I enjoy Hollinger's writing and ideas personally, but is rather due to a desire to continue the tradition of intelligent discussion on Celticsblog, rather than baseless babble.
As a caveat, Hollinger himself acknowledges the shortcomings of all of his rankings and statistics; no one thinks they are perfect.
And as one final, probably useless caveat (since too many people read what they want to read and not what is actually written) I do not think that Hollinger or his rankings are perfect or the be-all end-all. I think they are a valuable and often misunderstood and underrated part of basketball analysis. Nothing more, nothing less.
1. "All wins are equal"
This is simply not true. Yes, the BCS college system moved away from margin of victory in it's determining of school rankings. However, they did not make this change to create more accurate rankings, they did this because the public thought it was unsportsmanlike to watch Texas beat Northeastern South Dakota Tech by 70 points to help their BCS ranking. To appease the public and help remove the motivation for endlessly running up the score, the BCS removed margin of victory; however, were they able to still include margin of victory in addition to their other markers, they'd have a more accurate ranking.
The fact is, not all wins are equal. A blowout is more indicative of a superior team than a close fought victory. This is not only true logically (a truly great team does not need many games to hinge on one or two posessions down the stretch; a truly great team should have most games well in hand with time to spare) but has been proven time and time again by people researching the long-term overall relationship between margin of victory and win-loss record.
2. "He Put Them Too Low"
I don't know how many times this needs to be explained by posters here or Hollinger himself, but believe it or not, Hollinger has no rooting interest in placing teams high or low. Not only that, but he has no ability to place teams in any specific spot. Instead, what Hollinger has done is he has created a computer program incorporating data from all teams over the past 35 years or so that says: "Team A has 13-8 record with a 3.2 avg. margin of victory against opponents with a .549 winning percentage. In all other analyzed years, the average team with those statistics has finished at such-and-such a record with such-and-such playoff success, so maybe, logically, it would be most likely to expect a similar result from this team this year." Once Hollinger has written his prediction formula based only upon past results and data and not upon scouting or opinion, he has no ability to move teams up or down as he sees fit.
3. Specific Situations vs. Overall Odds
It seems like there is a huge misunderstanding of statistics around here. Statistics become more accurate with more data over a greater sample size and less accurate in more specific situations over less time and a smaller sample size. Thus Hollinger's rankings, while more accurate than most prognostications, can seem to be off-base when talking about a certain season, can be very awry when only looking at your favorite team, and can be completely askew when it comes down to 2 teams in one seven-game series. However, if Hollinger's predictions are wrong about your favorite team or a few playoff series go against his predictions, THIS DOES NOT MEAN HIS ANALYSIS IS INVALID! It simply means that these specific situations bucked their predicted trends. Which leads to...
4. What Is Statistically Significant?
Over long periods of time, shockingly small rates of success are statistically significant. All sports prognosticaters are wrong, and are wrong a lot of the time. Though some may have very good years, and very bad years, I'd be willing to bet that most prognosticaters are correct in their predictions about half the time over the course of their careers. Of course such talking heads love to ignore when they are wrong and endlessly point out when they are right to make it seem like they are right more often than not...but they are not. Take a look at Las Vegas. Over the course of history, I bet that the underdogs have covered very close to 50% of the time; that's how Vegas makes it's money. If you could be right even just 55-60% of the time, over a long period of time you'd make a lot of money. That's all we are talking about here, that's all Hollinger has to hit to be a well above average sports prognosticater. And that's over the course of the entire league, not just the Celtics. He doesn't need to be right about every team to be significantly better than average!
5. The Past Matters...Just Not How We Think It Should.
The past only matters in terms of determining and refining the formulas used to analyze current results, not in determining which team is better than others for the current year. Each year of data added makes predicting future seasons more accurate. It's very tempting and easy to say "well, Team B won it all last year, so they're the best team this year!" There are so many problems with such a statement, it's almost overwhelming. First, logically, how could this be true? At some point it would have to end, as Russell & Cous aren't winning titles anymore, sorry to say. Additionally, when's the last time there was a repeat champion? It's been a while. Look at how bad Miami was the year after it's title and even worse the subsequent year; look at the dropoff Chicago had after exploding into the playoffs. So here's the question: when were those two teams bad again? By the logic of a lot of people on this board, Miami was the title favorite in '06-'07 until they were out of the playoffs, but this is not true; it was clear quite early that they were a much worse team than the year before. The same is true for Chicago; very early on it was evident that they needed to be re-evaluated and not judged on the past season's success.
6. "Our SOS is lower because we keep beating teams"
I don't really know what to say to this except that Hollinger clearly states that the strength of schedule of Team A is determined by finding the winning percentage of all of Team A's opponents against all of their opponents except for against Team A. In other words, Team A cannot impact it's own strength of schedule.
7. Data Based on Past Results as a Predictor of the Future.
I really can't stress enough that Hollinger's predictions are not what he thinks will happen, it's an analysis of what has happened so far in relation to the history of the NBA. A team being ranked #1 does not mean that team is necessarily "better" than the #2 team, but that the #1 team has simply played better so far. However, analysis has shown that using such tools as predictors often yields more accurate predictions than predictions based upon other criteria; this is why Hollinger uses his method of analyzing results that are in the book to attempt to predict future outcomes.
8. The Current Cleveland Example
There are three teams playing phenomenally right now: Cleveland, LA, and Boston. Thus far, Cleveland has posted the most impressive results. I'm ok with that, and it has very little bearing on the actual outcome of a playoff series this year between the Cavs and Celts. Last year the Cavs outscored us in their series and we were able (fairly lucky) to win...the Cavs and Lebron are a very very scary playoff team. What Hollinger said in his PERdiem is basically that in any other year, a team playing as well as Cleveland has so far this season usually ends up winning the title. However, that is not the case this year because LA and Boston are also playing extremely well. But Cleveland has been a little more impressive thus far. I'm not sure I see much wrong with that statement, as it's based upon the season so far and a lot can change. Besides, it's not exactly surprising. Lebron is pretty clearly the most unstoppable player in the NBA, and everyone has said that he needs to be surrounded by shooters and one scorer to help alleviate the pressure, and now he has that with Williams and a full season with West and Wally.
9. Above All, I Love the Celtics
And maybe tonight's +9 victory over the Jazz boosts us up a bit more.
I'll add more if/when I think of them.
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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Texas beat Northeastern South Dakota Tech by 70 points
that cracked me up
I don't buy it.
Sorry, I just don’t.
1.) All wins are not equal is a correct statement but it has absolutely nothing to do with point differential and everything to do with quality of opponent, timing, and perceived importance of the game. Channeling my in Orwell, which win is more equal than the other win(or in real world speak, which is a victory you would consider better) a win in the first two weeks of the season by 35 points versus a team like Milwaukee or a win very late in the season, just before the playoffs by 4 points on the road over a team like Detroit? The point differential argument in this case is a farce and for the most part always is
2.) Why is it a farce? Because no teams in separate years are ever playing in a consistent environment. One year the trend is tough man to man defense. The next the rules are changed and it allows more zone defense. One year the refs are calling by the book and the next stars are getting preferential treatment and traveling is not called properly and the next the refs are teeing up technicals for being looked at wrong. One year there isn’t a three point line and another there is. One era has dominant big men so the game is about getting the ball down low the next era the guards and outside shooting dominates. Point differential between years and eras are about as random a number as you are going to get because there is no consistency as to what created the differential. Oh, and I’m not even going to go into how coaches effect such numbers as some have no problem with having a 30 point lead whittled down to 8 at the end of a game as he allows his bench to develop while another will leave the starters out there 40 MPG no matter what the score just to run up big victories to secure his job.
3.) When people are saying that Hollinger placed the Celtics seventh what they mean is that his system must be a joke if it places the Celtics seventh due to the ridiculous lineal equations he made up tp measure the strength of a team.
4.) I don’t understand the logic behind a team being able to win the championship without being called anything but the best team that year. The Giants won it all last year, they were the best team last year. I don’t care what the 17-0 record says for the Pats, they lost their last game and New York didn’t. The G-Men were the best team, end of story. Was the Celtics the best team every year they won a championship? Yes they were. Did they always have the best record or point differential? Not even close.
5.) Again, I don’t see Cleveland as a good example of his system. Cleveland played one team with a winning record during their 11 game streak. Compare that to the 5 teams that the Celtics have played with winning records over their 15 game string. Big difference. Any good team can beat the weak sisters of the league by 20+ points per game, it is another to beat 5 teams with winning records the caliber of Detroit, Portland, Utah, New Orleans and Orlando by 14.6 PPG. Again Cleveland had the bigger point differential but considering quality of opponent, Boston’s record appears much more impressive.
Anyway, I’ve said a lot more on the subject on various threads and I believe that Hollinger’s numbers are far from perfect and really not all that well thought up or reasoned out.
Pats vs. Giants
I’ve got to disagree with this contention. If those teams played 10 times the Pats win 9 of them. They were by far a better team but when the championship was on the line it was the Giants 1 in 10 day. The Giants were the best team super bowl sunday, but best team of the season? No way.
"his system must be a joke ", "ridiculous lineal equations he made up"
I think you are way off here, Nick.
As I’ve said before, you can make millions if you can prove that there are a better objective method to predict future success than his method (and it’s not really “his method”).
Of course there are statistical oddities, but Fan from VT explains that pretty well in his post.
Hollinger doesn’t really says that the C’s are the 7th best team, he explains pretty well the limitations of the method and, essentially, what he’s trying to measure. I think you are way wrong about what the metric is about. If you don’t think the metric, and what’s being measured, is useful – personally I don’t have much of a use to it – well, just don’t use it…
Not perfect but...
Hollinger used to preface his analysis with “this is one way to look at it based upon previous data and my weights.” I think he has gotten a little power hungry with his PER Diem columns, and seems to indicate that his way is the best way instead of one of many.
I’m fine with his power rankings and playoff odds. They seem to be logical and I’m sure he’s done at least a little research.
The only issue I have is with the margin of victory stat. I believe that better teams will have a larger margin of victory, so that stat should be used somehow, but it can be misleading. For example, say the Celtics are beating the Knicks by 25 points in the 3rd quarter of the first game of a back to back. They will clearly rest their starters for the 4th, while the Knicks (well maybe not the Knicks, but most teams) will play their best guys to try to come back. In the end, the Celtics win, but maybe only by 10. Had the starters played their usual minutes, the margin probably would have been 25 or more. It seems they are being penalized in this formula for doing the thing that makes the most sense strategically for long term success. I’m not sure how you account for this. Maybe by having margin by quarter?
by papa shuttlesworth on Dec 17, 2008 9:50 AM EST reply actions
It's already accounted for
It’s my understanding that such situations that you explained above are already accounted for. Think of it this way: teams are not trying to impress anyone or earn some accolade by having a great margin of victory. This has never been the case. Thus, all teams in the NBA, past and present, usually let up in the last minutes of a blowout. Because these stats are all measured in relation to past results over the course of entire seasons, you are comparing apples to apples and can use such methods to gain a more accurate than average prediction of future results.
And it’s true that in one game, a team winning by 10 by stretching out a 5 point lead down the stretch, versus a team winning by 10 because their bench blew 15 points of a lead is not an identical circumstance but would be evaluated as such by Hollinger’s system. However, over the course of an entire season, a team capable of a 25 point blowout will continue beating teams by 10 points, while the team eking out the 10 point victory will regress to the mean, and after several games will likely have a more pedestrian margin of victory.
by Fan from VT on Dec 17, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
falling apart at the margins
it is also possible however, I think, for statistical models to work and make sense in a huge section of the middle or normal, say in the middle 80 percentile but for that model to fall apart at the margins. If that is the case then his model might have trouble with teams like this years celtics that are clearly in the top, what, 3% for all time records, at least at this point.

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