Why Antoine would still fit
Antoine Walker, in the opinion of Celtics fans, is a lot like beer that is flavored with fruit additives. You either love the idea of him/it being added to one of your favorite things or you hate it. He either perfects it for you or he totally destroys it for you.
Now that Antoine is officially an unrestricted free agent, I feel obligated to chime in and support a true Celtic that deserves a return engagement. I am a huge fan of Blueberry Beer (Wachusett Blueberry to be exact) and I am a huge proponent of Antoine's return to where he belongs - on the Boston Celtics. I have read the debates in the Celtics Blog and Real GM forums and have listened to my friends and fellow Celtics fans fall on both sides of the issue. After considering every viewpoint and thinking it over a lot, I have come to the conclusion that nobody will ever be able to have their opinion on this issue swayed. You are what you are and I want to employ Employee #8.
Since I have already concluded that people’s opinions cannot be changed (I am a glutton for punishment), here is how I justify another Antoine Walker return to this franchise:
1) Antoine is fat and a shadow of the player that he thought he used to be
Everyone on the side that argues that Antoine should not be allowed within the borders of New England unless he is wearing the laundry of another NBA team argues that 'Toine is no longer the difference maker that he used to be. He can no longer carry a team and has lost whatever athletic ability that he used to have (save the he can't jump over a phone book jokes).
Antoine isn't the player that lead us on a 10-game win streak in his last return anymore and he also isn't the same player that used to demolish a young Chris Webber when we would beat the Washington Bullets. He definitely isn't the "veteran all-star" that he once thought he was and he isn't even as good as he was in Miami's run to the NBA Championship. He is an older, less athletic version of himself at this point.
However, he doesn't have to be all of that for his return to the Celtics to make sense. All that he has to be is a contributing member of the second unit. His role would be small and specific but important to this roster. Antoine's skill set and predicament lend themselves perfectly to what this team needs right now. He is a championship proven veteran leader that won’t cost us much at all. We could snag him for minimal cost and solve a few problems that our second unit has run into this season. Antoine could be the answer to the “Eddie House cannot handle presses,” conundrum. Antoine’s dribbling and playmaking ability from the small forward or power forward position would allow the second unit flexibility that it doesn’t currently have. He would also be a player that can facilitate the offense when the second unit starts growing stagnant. He has always been a viable create and dish type player and he can also facilitate the offense from the block when needed. He may no longer be a great scorer, outside shooter or rebounder but there will be times when he sprinkles flashes of those proficiencies into game scenarios. Even this version or edition of Antoine Walker would greatly help our second unit if he gave us numbers like he provided in Minnesota just last season – 8 points, 4 rebounds and an assist in 20 minutes (not that he would play 20 minutes per game).
2) There are plenty of players that would be better to add to this roster than Antoine
One of my good friends, who happens to be an active Celtics Blog member, thinks that there is no shot that Antoine returns to Boston. He says that he is holding out hope for Dikembe Mutombo or another seven-foot big to come in and solidify our bench. While Dikembe has his merits, he also has as many questions the most ardent Antoine detractor could come up with while trying to cleverly disparage the greatest purveyor of the wiggle this side of Memphis.
Dikemebe isn’t currently being paid by another team, so he would probably want a bit more money for his services. He is over 40 year old according to his NBA bio and that is a very conservative estimate considering that nobody can confirm his birth date. At this phase in his career, he could be injury-prone and be a waste of a roster move and cap penalty, while Antoine has been very durable during his career and is coming off of a lot of rest. Mutombo offers no offensive advantage to our offensively challenged second unit and would clog up the one area where Lean Powe, our only offensive threat on the second unit, prefers to set up.
If the Celtics were to miss out on Mutombo, like Doc Rivers seems to think they will, then what will they do? If Mutombo goes to Houston, then who do we turn to? There aren’t seven-foot defensive stoppers waiting on the open market and there really aren’t any other free agents that would fill our needs the way that ‘Toine could.
Spare me all of the talk about Stephon Marbury. The Celtics very well may be looking at bringing him aboard but would you actually be willing to swallow having him on our roster over a player that has lived and breathed Celtics basketball? The addition of Marbury would also further bury Gabe Pruitt, who is starting to make an argument for playing time that cannot be denied. We do not need a point guard added to this roster.
3) You think that we don’t need to add another PG but want to add another PF?
That is correct and I will explain why it makes sense. Our bench may be littered with players that can play power forward but nobody can bring what Walker can bring to our second unit. Leon Powe is a legit power forward and scoring option for the second unit, there is no arguing that. However, Glen Davis plays center for the Celtics and has ever since he got her last season. He rarely if ever mans the power forward position. Do you ever see him and Perk on the floor at the same time? The addition of Antoine wouldn’t necessarily effect Davis’ role at all. Brian Scalabrine can play power forward but at this point the Celtics need to start weeding him out of the rotation. He is a serviceable player but cannot add what ‘Toine can add to that unit.
Will somebody please wake Patrick O’Bryant up?
Antoine can handle the basketball and help facilitate an offense that he is already familiar with. He wouldn’t even be the focal point of this unit! He could help to make sure that Powe keeps getting the ball on the block and when that doesn’t work, he could drive and dish out to House in the corner.
4) What if we sign him and it just doesn’t work out?
The best thing about completing the Antoine Walker trilogy is that it comes a such little expense. If things don’t work out and he proves to be a bad fit, have a negative hold on the locker room or even jack up way too many 3-pointers, then we just cut him loose. He would be coming in on a minimal salary because he is already subsidized by Memphis. If things are working and PJ Brown is still sitting at home waiting for the Celtics, then we make that change and bring PJ back.
We would have only lost minimal money (by NBA standards) and a body that we are going to have to cut in any acquisition scenario. It would be the easiest breakup that I could imagine. It is the same scenario that everyone paints if we were to sign Marbury. “If he is still a cancer, just cut him!”.
5) You’ll never convince me but give me 10 good reasons why we should sign Antoine
1) I’ve said this before but his ball handling and playmaking abilities would be perfect for our mechanical second unit.
2) Antoine’s presence on the second unit would give Doc the ability to cut back Paul and Ray’s minutes and rest them because they wouldn’t always be needed to bail out the second unit’s offense.
3) Wouldn’t it be great seeing Antoine and Paul hugging after the Celtics won their second straight NBA title?
4) Antoine knew that Rick Pitino was bad news for the Celtics before we all did. He was bummed about have to play of Pitino again and that should count for something.
5) Nobody is currently wearing #8 on our roster.
6) Antoine has the chance to surpass Danny Ainge in both career assists with the Celtics and could double the amount of points Ainge scored in a Celtics uniform.
7) What team could match the caliber of veteran leadership that the Celtics would have if they added Antoine to a roster that boasts Pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen and Cassell?
8) Walker would be an additional six fouls for the C’s to use when they face future perennial all-star Andrew Bynum in the NBA Finals.
9) I asked Michael Holley at this year’s Celtics vs. Nuggets game if he would like to see Antoine back and he said no. Don’t you want to see this guy be wrong for once?
10) Everyone condemns Antoine for the Celtics’ collapse during his last playoff run in Boston but I seem to remember him carrying us while Pierce was on the verge of a meltdown. Doesn’t that entitle him to enjoy some time to enjoy the current and winning incarnation of the Celtics?
I know that people gag each time they have to read about this scenario but I would be remised if I didn’t chime in with my support for Antoine. Danny, please do the right thing and bring Antoine back to the one and only place where he belongs. Let’s watch him ‘em up and play with three all-stars, while we are on our way to a second title in two years. I love the idea of that.
Still keeping the faith,
DRJMAN
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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23 comments
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You should be banned at least a month for even attempting to get us to read this manifesto.
by Reyquila on
Dec 18, 2008 9:01 PM EST
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I think this is a well-thought and well-written post
Congrats, you were able to make a “bring back Toine” manifesto readable.
However, there’s no possible way of making this a strong case. The only valid reason you provide is this “Wouldn’t it be great seeing Antoine and Paul hugging after the Celtics won their second straight NBA title?” (in my view, yes). Unfortunately, that’s not nearly enough to sign Walker.
Unlike what happens with Mutombo, there’s no basketball-wise valid reasons to bring him back. We simply have no use for the current Antoine Walker. If the team need was a perimeter oriented 4 with the ability to stretch the floor and pass the ball, I think he would be a top candidate. But it’s not. If he was as good as 3 years ago, we could try to find a way of using him. But he’s not. He can’t anchor a 2nd unit, he simply isn’t that good anymore. He’d probably be the worst player in the roster, if it wasn’t for POB. Optimistically, he’d be the 11th best player or something and of no use during the play-offs.
I’d love to see him coming back in some capacity other than as a player – as an addition to the coaching team or to the FO. I think he can still contribute for some teams. I’ll root for him if he joins the Knicks. But in no way, shape or form he can help the C’s. Signing him would be nothing more a PR stunt. Ainge won’t do it and rightly so.
by cordobes on
Dec 19, 2008 4:08 AM EST
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Very nice text
I think Antoine should be back to the C’s, get 12 minutes per game and help us get #18. He has always had talent, and that will still be there. In a limited role and with limited responsabilities Walker can make his job better than anyone else. I hadn’t thought about the ball handling against pressure skills. That would be an area where he would be very good at, making the Marbury “need” not necessary..
Plus, he would take the minimum…what’s the risk? If we tried with Miles, why not with Antoine?
by greenwise on
Dec 19, 2008 6:02 AM EST
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8) Walker would be an additional six fouls for the C’s to use when they face future perennial all-star Andrew Bynum in the NBA Finals
lol, they could sign me if thats what they’re looking for
by TheAncientRivalry on
Dec 19, 2008 10:00 AM EST
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Reunited and it feels so good.......
That’s how I’d feel about
Chauncey Billups
Joe Johnson
Al Jefferson
Delonte West
Ryan Gomes
I’m not sure about Antoine…
TPD 4 3333333
by TradeProposalDude on
Dec 19, 2008 11:34 AM EST
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Antoine is more accomplished than all of the above
except Chauncey. Makes a lot of sense…
God bless and good night!
by BrickJames on
Dec 19, 2008 1:20 PM EST
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Gimme a wiggle
Love the wiggle…can see him and Garnett doing a double wiggle!!
== Bob ==
by Ref110 on
Dec 19, 2008 11:42 PM EST
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walker wiggle
I would not miss ‘Toine adding to his total of 2,815 three pointers attempted (2nd in celtics history). However, I wouldn’t mind seeing him wiggle a few more times.
by Celtics1990 on
Dec 21, 2008 1:18 PM EST
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- gave you away. ahahahah. ainge is a true celtic. he was a smart unselfish player.the gm of the year. he’ll have his # raised eventually. antoine will not. deal with it. why would a good reason for bringiong toine back be beating some stats of ainge’s? ahahahaahah!!!
by cornbreadsmart on
Dec 19, 2008 11:45 PM EST
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Hmmm
Antoine would be a sentimental pick over anyone else who haven’t put on a C’s jersey. But, will he able to help down the stretch or will he be a pain in the behind when he launches those 3’s? What do the C’s really need down the stretch? Definitely a 5 since the team cannot rely on POB just yet. Davis and Powe has done well with the energy unit (the 2nd unit), but if they were playing a deep line up full of big 4’s and 5’s like the Cavs with AV, Z, Wallace, or the Pistons with Maxiell, McDyess, Sheed, and Kwame, it would be troublesome if Perkins and KG were in foul trouble. With that said, the most logical choice is to buyout Scab and trade for a Joe Smith type player. Will it be difficult? Of course. Who would want to make the defending champs better via a trade with their team? So, maybe the team should scout the European league and check out the bigs out there.
2nd Infantry Division --- Second to None!
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on
Dec 20, 2008 1:07 AM EST
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Ten reasons why we don't need or want Antoine on this team
1) He’s no longer a viable option at small forward. He’s too slow, can’t play defense on the wing, however his offensive game is most geared towards playing on the wing.
2) He’s no longer a viable offensive option on the wing. he shot an awful 32% from beyond the arc last season, and he still shot 4 3’s a game! He only attempted 8 fg’s a game, and 4 of them were 3’s, and he only made one of them! That does the opposite of helping us, that hurts us!
3) Even if he changed his offensive game, he doesn’t finish around the basket. He only finished 44% of his shots near the basket. That is a HORRIBLE rate for a big man. Thats a horrible rate for anyone.
4) He doesn’t rebound all that well. His rebounding rate has steadily declined each season since 04/05. I mean if he can’t play the 3, he’d have to play the 4, and if he plays the 4 he has to rebound.
5) He is completely and utterly redundant. Leon Powe is 6-8, 240. BBD is 6-8 280. Walker is 6-9 250. I mean really? do we need another guy thats going to give up 2-3 inches against many power forwards in the league, and at that, a guy who can’t make up for those inches with length or athletic abilities?
6) He’s gonna mess with a good thing. Glen Davis gets 16 minutes a night, Leon Powe gets 15.5. Each guy spends some of that time at the 5, but each spends a lot of that at the 4. Realistically we’re going to field a 5 man unit of House-Ray Allen-Tony Allen-Antoine Walker-Glen Davis? Ouch.
7) This guy cannot shoot free throws! This is a huge pet peeve of mine. As team the Celtics shoot 76% from the line. Perkins shoots 57, and he’s a big heavy handed center. Antoine Walker shot 53 last year, 48% the year before that.
8) He said he just wants to play. He managed a career low in minutes last season at 19 per game. He’s gonna get 15 or less with us.
9) We have bigger fish to fry. We need another big man. We need PJ Brown. We need another wing defender. We need James Posey/ Matt Barnes (both i realize unattainable, just examples). We kind of need another point, but i think once sam I am gets playing he’ll fill that void. We don’t need what Walker is selling
10) We already have what Antoine Walker is selling. His name is Brian Scalabrine. He an okay team defender, but average 1 on 1 defender (Walker, same), he’s not a very good rebounder at this point in his career (Walker..also), and best of all, he seems pretty happy with his 9.6 minutes per contest.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
by indeedproceed on
Dec 20, 2008 11:39 AM EST
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Bad Idea
Wow bring back Toine? What an idea!! Just what we need a brick layer from the outside on the second unit. Somebody who cannot play defense or rebound. Someone who is extremely selfish on the court. The only reason would be a sentimental choice, but that is not good enough. His detrimental attitude would rub off on others. You want someone with character not a character. Everytime I hear bring him back I can only think about all those missed 3’s at inopportune times. What he has left for game is better on another team not ours!!!
by wbones1 on
Dec 20, 2008 12:05 PM EST
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Why Bonsie...
Bonses,
While Antoine is a “volume shooter” and not quite the scorer that he used to be, how can you say that he is selfish and can’t rebound. Antoine is a faciliator at the PF/SF position and has proven to be anything but selfish. You can’t name many C/PFs that could and do pass like Walker.
Antoine also never relied on athletic ability to rebound. He is a pure position rebounder and Tommy used to always say that he was one of the top five Celtics ever at carving out position and grabbing offensive boards. That is a trait that does not fade my friend like you would suggest that his athletic skills have.
I am sick of people giving these accounts of how terrible Antoine is when the man has not played a minute all season. Memphis did not play him because they are in a youth movement and wanted to play their young players.
Please back up your accounts of his “detrimental attitude” and other accusations instead of just throwing them out there. Plus, we wouldn’t be bringing him in on a minimal contract to be a vital, key player. He would be suring up our very mechanical and at time stifled second unit. I witnessed their deficiencies last night from my courtside seats (I got lucky and happened into them). Having an Antoine-like player out there would have helped that group. He could have created, where our current second unit guys couldn’t.
by Drjman on
Dec 20, 2008 3:37 PM EST
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Blockquoted paragraph I am sick of people giving these accounts of how terrible Antoine is when the man has not played a minute all season. Memphis did not play him because they are in a youth movement and wanted to play their young players.
If he was good, even if the Grizz are on a youth movement, he would still be playing, don’t you think?
2nd Infantry Division --- Second to None!
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on
Dec 21, 2008 1:32 AM EST
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These are my reasons
His detrimental attitude is best catagorized by his unwillingness to do what is best for the team. When he played for the Celtics he was also at his best under the basket. He did his best when playing in the low post. What did Walker instead do he took shots from 3 point land. He wanted to be like Magic except play point forward. That is what I meant about being selfish as well.
Tommy always said that he was a great lowpost player instead he wanted to be outside slinging 3’s. Would I have a different take on him if he used what were his best gifts. Yes I would but he chose instead to want to emulate Magic. Remember Magic he did what was best for his team. He won a championship playing the 5 in the championship game. Mr. Walker was all about his personal stats not team. We do not need that even though he would see limited minutes. He would after all be thinking about next year and trying to get more $$$$$.
by wbones1 on
Dec 20, 2008 8:13 PM EST
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Bones...
It seems as if you should take up your issues with Antoine with one Mr. Jim O’Brien. Obie-ball had some poor effects on both Walker and Pierce’s games. Pierce had many of the same criticisms that Antoine had turing O’Brien’s tenure. Should we run him out of town too? Try to remember how things actually played out, instead of pinning a “detrimental attitude” on a player for executing a game plan.
You are right though, Walker did become a bit of a chucker. If you think that would be a problem on this team, then you don’t give Antoine or KG, Doc and the rest of the boys enough credit.
by Drjman on
Dec 20, 2008 10:17 PM EST
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selfish hotdog
the last thing this team needs is a selfish outta shape hotdog. I am sure he is one of the worst (high volume attempts) 3 point shooters ever. He has nothing this team needs
by mrmost on
Dec 22, 2008 12:12 AM EST
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How about a trade instead...
2nd Infantry Division --- Second to None!
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on
Dec 23, 2008 6:33 PM EST
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Looking like an even better fit.
With PJ Brown officially done and Joe Smith wishing to return to Cleveland if he is set free, Antoine is looking like a better and better option every day.
Our second unit is killing our momentum and letting other teams get the idea that they can hang with us in their heads. Once they get a hint of a whiff of victory, they are really going for the kill.
He isn’t perfect but Antoine could really help our second unit.
by Drjman on
Dec 31, 2008 6:45 PM EST
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Joe ...
probably thinks he has a better chance of winning a championship with the Cavs. Well, good luck to him, then.
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on
Jan 1, 2009 4:26 AM EST
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6th Man
As of right now the bench is playing pathetic. I think if Antoine would join the team someone, more specifically KG, would make sure he is not lazy. And if he took a stupid shot he might make him cry like Big Baby. I don’t think that he is the best pick-up, but he would better than he used to be.
by WestCoast Celtics Fan on
Jan 1, 2009 3:01 PM EST
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