2 of our top 8 come playoff time are not here yet…this 2nd unit if here to get rest for starters but come april the 6-8th guys will be here to win #18….guess-Starbury&Smith…

The Bulls tried a variation of the Pacers strategy against the C’s last night. The Pacers sub out their starters early so the C’s bench will play against some of Indy’s first unit . This has been effective.

The Bulls left their starters in against the C’s Bench. As Tommy pointed out at the time that meant they’d be tired later in the game, and the Bulls starters were.

Looking at the +/- for the game the only one that really was terrible was Davis, but he shouldn’t be out there guarding Nocioni anyway.

One of the biggest challenges the bench unit has had is just maintaining a consistent lineup where players can settle into their roles. They added Scal to the mix only after the first 10 games of the season, then added Pruitt more in the last week or two, then Pruitt was sick, then TA was out a few a few games, then Powe and Davis go back and forth with who is defending the center spot, etc. Some of this is chance, some of it is created by Doc: what was odd to me last night was how, in the 2nd quarter, they had House acting as the PG, bringing the ball up and setting the play, while Pruitt played off the ball as shooting guard. That new wrinkle seemed to lead to a lot of uncertainty and turnovers, which fueled the Bulls offense — the 2nd unit’s defense that quarter wasn’t atrocious in terms of rotations and such, but they just kept giving away possessions. The same unit played much better in the 4th quarter, with those roles reversed: Pruitt handling the ball more while Eddie was the designated gunner. I’d like to see a few games in a row where Doc sticks to those roles, I think it puts the players in the best situation to succeed. But it’s obviously a balance Doc is trying to find, between teaching these guys to be flexible and respond to different situations, while having them succeed enough so that the first unit doesn’t have to keep bailing them out. I suppose we won’t really be able to judge how successful he is with this balance until later in the year.

If the 2nd team’s going to get better without outside help, Doc has a choice to make:
1. Either make Rondo the bridge between the 1st and 2nd units, and let him work his magic (imagine how much better Powe and TA would be if they had Rondo creating for them, and think of how many openings Eddie would find if there was actual ball-movement on the 2nd unit). Not only does it improve the 2nd unit, it keeps Ray and Paul fresher.
2. Or play Pruitt at the point, move Eddie to 2 and put TA at 3. Let Pruitt bring the ball up, and then build the 2nd team offense around our two best players—Powe and TA. Run numerous pick-and-rolls with those two, spot Eddie and Pruitt at the 3 point line, and see what happens. TA’s a decent decision-maker in pick-and-rolls, Powe’s got great hands, and TA would have more lanes to the basket than he currently does with our small-shooting-guard-masquerading-as-a-point-guard offense allows. I’d also let Pruitt do some creating with TA or Powe in pick-and-roll situations. Hopefully, that would increase our scoring opportunities or at least get the ball moving. Whatever the case, we need to start doing something to increase the scoring opportunities of our two best 2nd team scorers—Powe and TA. I’m tired of seeing Eddie chucking bad shots because he can’t dribble and time’s running out on the shot clock.

I’m not too concerned now. A better bench would probably ensure the C’s break the Bulls record for most regular season wins; however, that isn’t all that important and may happen anyway. I am more concerned come playoff time. While people can attribute the troubles in the Hawks and Cavs series last year to rust or lack or cohesion, I think it also had to do with the C’s lack of size up front. Easy dunks and layups that Powe and Davis were getting in the regular season weren’t so easy against the monster front lines of the Hawks and Cavs (who arguably can put 4 players on the court at once all taller than Powe or Davis). I think one of the big keys will be getting a little more length. Whether that comes in the form of Mutombo, Brown, or Smith isn’t all that important. But I don’t like the idea of a Davis/Powe 4/5 in the playoffs.

The second unit struggled in the second quarter because House did a very poor job of initiating the offense and BBD was standing around doing nothing. They all played better in the 4th quarter.

The way to solve the second unit’s lack of offense is (a) give the backup pg job to Pruitt, and (b) leave either Pierce or Ray Allen in the game. Meanwhile, you sub TA in a little sooner so that Paul and Ray don’t play too many minutes.

Ray, Paul, and Kevin are playing less minutes. That is good. Only complaint I have is that they should play a few less. During the near-end of blowout games, I constantly ask why they’re still in. The second unit is going to get no confidence if they’re needed crunch time wise if they’re not asked to hold leads that are almost insurmountable. The only risk in leaving the starters in with a 15+ lead with less than half a quarter to go is the injury risk. The game is already over.

Ray, Kevin, and Paul will be able to play bigger minutes better in the playoffs if they are playing even less now.

let’s see Pruitt on Nate Robinson; I don’t want to have to watch Eddie chasing him around; same is true in the future with Jordan Farmar and Daniel Gibson; put Gabe on them, and let Eddie cover Vujacic

agree with most of the posts above

no way Eddie or Tony should be doing a lot of dribbling; they are effective when they catch the ball in their spots; limit their games, and they will thrive

Pierce is first to sub out; keep Rondo in, and sub out the rest of the starters gradually; then put in Pierce and Pruitt together to give Rondo a rest; this keeps one starter on at all times, and it means there’s a ball handler or two on the court (not EH or TA)

when we get another 5, Powe and BBD will be sharing minutes

Pruitt’s defense is already the best on the 2nd unit; he frequently is covering 2 guys out there, his own man and someone else’s; he’s tentative on entry passes and penetration drives; that’s what he’s got to work on; defense and shooting are already good enough to merit minutes on the court

TA needs to shorten his dribble and cut down on the turnovers; he shouldn’t be forcing it unless he’s got a clear lane to the basket

For the second unit, we don’t know if Pruitt’s the answer at the point, but Doc should be finding out now. (And Eddie’s fine at the 2.)

Long time reader through a bunch of iterations of the site, just finally signed up. Just wanted to say nice job, I liked the article. Go C’s!!

The biggest issue with the bench in my opinion is that they have no reliable scorer in that unit.

House is really best as an undersized 2, same seems to be the case for Pruitt. Powe and Baby seem best when they’re crashing the boards looking for putbacks. Scal can hit the occasional three. TA is a pure slasher at this point.

Using Rondo as a bridge makes sense. He can help initiate offense and House can play off the ball.

Another issue is that the bench is already undersized. A bigger/more athletic swingman could help. This is where Walker or Giddens could find minutes this season.

Can sum1 pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee tell the moderator to unblock. I will never talk trash again I promise!

agree we need another big but i don’t want to wait as long as we did last year on pj. i like pruitt at the point more than eddie, but gabe does a lot of side dribbling wihout the penetration and dishing. doc is very set on how he does things and always seems a bit late to the party on trying new things. he does so only when he is forced to.

do 3 waves:

Rondo, house, Tony, Powe and baby. there is offensive ability there. The problem is d. But do this lineup for a few minutes, 3-5. Then sub PP in and take rondo out. House, PP, TA, baby Powe. do this for 3 minutes. folks are gonna have trouble guarding PP or TA at big guard.
3rd, you can bring the starters in and leave House in so Rondo gets more rest.

In the 1st or 3rd quarter you make a point of getting PP more rest than the others. With current roster, this means we go with all starters but PP and ta is in for about 4 minutes

Doc wants to not go through all these mental gyrations. hey if we were good enough to just bring the second team in, super. but the second team ain’t good enough for that. yet.

I don’t see Doc sticking with this rotation/pattern for the playoffs. He will shorten the rotation to the extent that there will seldom be 5 subs on the floor at the same time. Starters will get more minutes when necessary. Really, if we can keep Ray or PP in with the 2nd unit for most of their time, we have two good scorers on the floor (one of them and Powe). If we then land the other big that people seem to covet, our second unit looks pretty good. If I remember correctly, this is exactly what happened last season. It also included PP or Ray doing a big chunck of the ball handling with that unit. It worked out pretty well.

I agree that we need to let the subs play, at this point. In theory, it can only help us if they build confidence. Even if it costs us a win or two, the end result will be better.

Much like has been said, possibly best by the Brick, I would like to see Tony Allen get his 20 mpg and Gabe Pruitt get his 16 mpg on the floor with the starters. These two will still be productive at both ends of the floor. This will leave Rondo, Paul and Ray to play more minutes with the bench, They will make Powe, Davis and House a much more effective unit.

I basically agree with all of the above and I think we’re seeing alot of inconsistency from the bench. As noted above, some teams have been subbing so as to have their first unit play against the bench which I think gives us an advantage because those guys are worn out when the regs come back in. Leon and BBD always play against players that have a height or speed advantage and other teams are pulling them, defensively, away from the basket (at least one of them). Another factor is lack of practice time. Before last game against the Bulls Doc talked to Perk about him not setting picks to free up other guys. He was doing this, but had gotten away from it. For a few games Ray wasn’t scoring well. So Perk does his job and all of a sudden Ray is on fire again. Also BBD loses focus at times which isn’t unusual for a young player and TA has been told to slow down bit in order for him to be more effective. Sometimes he does this and sometimes not. So there are alot of things going on with the bench. At the beginning of the season, and when the bench first comes in either PP or Ray stay on the floor with them. PP was a facilitator and Ray a scorer, but it didn’t work that well because the chemistry wasn’t there. They are getting enough playing time for a bench and Doc doesn’t pull anyone unless he is really doing something Doc doesn’t like and BBD is often the culprit. I think we have the people, I like using them as a unit without any starters after 2 minutes. I think it’s a question on getting them to focus on Defense, not offense, I would like to see Pruitt in there at the point and I think we’ll see more of this. They usually have the intensity, especially House and Powe. They just need to concentrate on defense and let the offense come to them. I really think they will work it out. I would not bring someone in other than a big vet (a good one that is at least the equivalent of a PJ Brown. I have a hunch something will be done and I think it may involve BBD. He seems to be the one who is not playing as well now as before and it could be that his agent is getting into his head because he’s a free agent at the end of the year. If BBD concentrates on his defensive assignments, and on his pick-setting on offense I think the situation will change drastically with things as they are now.

I think you’re going to see more small ball with the second unit with eddie, tony and gabe on the floor along with leon abd baby or scal. baby seems to be the one who might lose minutes .I think our bench plays hard especially on defense but on offense there’s not enough ball movement. tony allen often decides he has to be the offense and he will try to score or initiate the offense for several plays in a row and usually what happens is he commits turnovers or fails to convert which leads to a fast break on the other end. Since baby and leon aren’t excatly track stars we wind up giving up layups when we don’t score. the other problem is that leon is a black hole when he gets the ball. He NEVER passes out of the double or triple team. In the 4th qtr against the bulls the ball movement by the bench was very good. that’s how our bench needs to play. You notice that during that stretch Baby was on the bench and doc had ray,eddie,tony,leon and Scal in. I thought that was an effective lineup as it gave us 3 3point shooters. scal comes closest to playing posey’s role so look for him to get more minutes

We miss James Posey.

Did you write your article before reading today’s Globe? See this quote from Marc Spear’s article:

Rivers has been working on improving bench play and spent extra time working with the reserves after yesterday’s practice. “We have to get better as a group with second-team consistency,” the coach said.

Darius Miles gives some insight into what this team is about. I also remember from last year that when PJ Brown joined the team he stated he had never felt so welcomed by a new team. (hope link works)

It’s in today’s Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2008/12/21/in_hub_miles_was_all_smiles/

It’s silly to talk about a “first unit” and then a “second unit.” That is coachthink and it’s wrong. There are combinations that work, and combinations that don’t. Most of the combinations that work have a mix of starters and reserves.

For example, a combination of Pruitt, TA, RA and a couple of bigs would have plenty of scoring without House.

Or, combine House with TA and PP and a couple of bigs.

Or put Rondo out there with House, TA and two bigs.

Play BBD alongside Garnett more often. That combination works well, and so does Perk and Powe, so long as you have a couple of shooters in the backcourt.

It’s wrong to do it, not to talk about it.