Limited Trade Options
by Jeff Clark on Dec 31, 2008 11:34 AM EST
in Articles
82 comments
[Post your trade ideas in the comments - Jeff]
The Celtics need some help on the bench and most fans want to see Danny make a move soon. There is a lot of talk about picking up players that may be bought (Joe Smith, Marbury) out or are already sitting at home without a job (PJ Brown). But the other option is to make a trade.
We have a full roster, so we'd have to drop someone to pick someone up anyway. You can typically get more value when you make a trade because the player hasn't been tossed aside by some other team in a buyout. Also, in the case of someone like Joe Smith, who will be coveted by other teams, you can secure him without other teams getting a chance to bid on his services. So making a trade seems like a pretty good idea, right? There are 29 other teams out there and a lot of players that could make us a better team. This should be fairly easy, right? Not so fast.
First of all, let's look at our potential trade partners. What we need is solid players who don't necessarily have long-term contracts (no more than 2 years unless he's a real keeper). Basically the kind of player that puts you over the top by filling a role for a Championship squad. No team that is in contention for a title is going to trade away a guy like that. Especially not to the defending champs. So in the East, you can rule out the Cavs and Magic and out West you can rule out the Lakers, Hornets, Spurs, and Rockets.
Thankfully there are a number of teams that have already punted this season and perhaps even next year in hopes of cashing in on the 2010 free agent class.
Next you have to decide what you need and find teams left on the list that have what you want.
I think it is safe to say we need a veteran big man with some length and skill. Most teams are looking for that in some form or another and few have those in abundance to offer up in a trade. Also, we could use some bench scoring either from the wing or perhaps in the form of a backup point guard (depending on what we decide about Pruitt and Cassell).
Finally you need to take that list and pare it down to salaries that match up. This is critical because the Celtics have very little in terms of flexibility this year. I am assuming that we are eliminating the option of trading anyone in the starting lineup. You don't mess with the chemistry that they've developed. That means the most you can take back in terms of salary would be some combination of the bench players' salaries.
Scal is paid $3.2M this year. The next two highest are House and Tony Allen at $2.6M and $2.5M. Even if you combine all three salaries, you only get up to $8.3M and if you trade all three for 1 player, you effectively destroy the bench and reboot team chemistry for the 2nd half of the year. Probably not a good idea.
So your most likely scenario is to take one of those guys (Scal is the most expendable and has the highest salary) and combine him with a player not currently making a big impact on the current team. Someone like JR Giddens or at the most Big Baby (who duplicates what Powe already brings). Still, that means only $4-5M or so to match in salaries with. So that rules out players that would be ideal fits here in Boston like Brad Miller, Marcus Camby, or Chris Kaman.
Ok, got all that? Now, go to the trade checker and make a trade that helps us and would seem to benefit the other team. I'll post some of the best ones as well as a few of mine sometime in the next day or so.
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Can we use Wyc's money at discretion?
People will need those $3 million to bring up some realistic trade ideas that could help the team.
by cordobes on Dec 31, 2008 11:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
three i've proposed in Forums in the last couple of days
Warrick & Ross from MEM, Allen, Baby and rights to Erden from Cs:
Nocioni (salary dump at high paid position) from CHI, Allen, Scal POB and Cassell from Cs:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2367138301910212456&teams=44442&te=&cash=
Salmons from SAC, Powe, Allen, Cassell and POB from Cs:
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
re: Nocioni
yes yes yes from the Bulls fans if the team can get 2010-or-before contracts for him. Though all indications are that the team actually likes having him around at that rate…which stinks.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 31, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nocioni
what would it take to get him?
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
realistically?
I have no idea. The Bulls are very hard to figure out, to the point where you think players are only held onto if the Owner likes them personally.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 31, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re: realistically?
Thanks for the reply. see my three-way trade below with the Bulls and Sac. Would you do it?
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade 4 guys for John Salmons?
That makes NO SENSE. Trade two of your key bench guys for John Salmons. Ridiculous.
Matter of fact. None of those trades make sense one way or the other..
by wondahbap on Dec 31, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chi trade...
I do this middle deal all day long, but why on EARTH would Chicago consider doing that. They have to be at least semi-realistic deals…
by EJPLAYA on Dec 31, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
feel free to be creative
but try to be realistic
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Dec 31, 2008 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Trade with the Bucks
Charlie V. and Ramon Sessions for BBD and Scals.
by Celtic Chico on Dec 31, 2008 12:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ok, I'll tip my hand with a few OKC ideas
Joe Smith for Scal and Giddens (as previously discussed) – maybe throw in a 2nd rounder?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=34291021788&teams=25252&te=&cash=
Same as above, but swapping unused big men.
Robert Swift finally finds his way to Boston
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=301910212416&teams=25252&te=&cash=
Collison for Tony Allen
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2367301910211978&teams=2525252&te=&cash=
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Dec 31, 2008 12:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How about Watson too?
Swift, Smith and Watson could be great off the bench…
by greenwise on Jan 1, 2009 5:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Theres really nothing that great we can do…we’ve messed this up from the beginning, we should be playing Pruitt, Giddens and/or Walker all along to get them to develop….I really really do not see how those guys playing in front of grade school crowds is preparing them for the NBA…
by TheAncientRivalry on Dec 31, 2008 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bring in The Birdman
Andersen and Balkman for Allen and Baby (and start playing the rooks some at the 2):
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2367320011352986&teams=7722&te=&cash=
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 12:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
POB
trade him to the D-League for a player to be named later….
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 12:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
reluctant to trade eddie but...
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." - Michael Jordan
"There is no "i" in team but there is in win." - Michael Jordan
by celticmaestro on Dec 31, 2008 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
there is always the Euro league where some players are free to leave. I wonder if Allan Ray is doing well? Here’s a link to the Euro:
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on Dec 31, 2008 12:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The only realistic idea so far
Congrats.
by cordobes on Dec 31, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Baby goes home...
J Wright (who B Scott hates) for Baby and Cassell (or whoever):
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=13832003241&teams=332&te=&cash=
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 12:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Only the Lakers...
can trade for a superstar for two stiffs and Marc Gasol. In trading for RayRay, BBD, and KG, the Celtics mortgaged the future by including these players in the trade:
Gomes, Delonte, Al (though I like Perks game better, now), Jeff Green, Bassie (though he could have been a Palxico type, shooting his own leg). And of course, to get Bassie, the team traded the number 7 overall pick in the 2006 draft (Foye, but could have been Rudy Gay, POB [start the laughing anytime], Redick, aah, what the heck. Here’s the link and dream for yourself:
http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/drafts/2006.html
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on Dec 31, 2008 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Easy...
Scal, Baby, and JR or Walker for Foster and McRoberts
Indy isnt going anywhere for at least 2 years and and already had a decent mix of youth and vets, they dont need him. Hes a rebounding machine and very good defensively and would not limit on offense. He has a 3 year deal but we will be in contention at least this year and next, and unless Sheed is coming here for the MLE hes better than most free agent big men coming up. And then hes a decent expiring contract. Scal deal expires a year earlier to give some room for 2010(so does baby and the rookies if they choose not to sign them).
Its clear to me that DA and Doc have already chosen Powe over Davis. Do you really think they want him to try to develop a midrange game in the middle of a championship run, its a showcase for a trade. Only one will be resigned and I think trading a “key” 2nd unit guy such as baby, powe, TA, or house will wake the others on the bench up, and team overall. Roberts can be cut or he expires.
A tough rebounding big man is key, eddie is going through a cold streak, unfortunately at the wrong time. But he will come around. But throwing out two 6-7 forwards, AT THE SAME TIME, to defend Duncans, Howards, Z’s, Gasols isnt going to work, esp in a 7 game series. Make TA do the Steve Nash tennis ball dribble drill until the second round of the playoffs.
by im right on Dec 31, 2008 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No trade is necessary. Replacing House with Pruitt will fix 90% of the problem. And the sooner the better, to give Pruitt more experiece for the playoffs. House has been playing poorly for at least two weeks now.
I vote for House to the T-wolves for Kevin Ollie and Calvin Booth. Booth would be waived.
by Brickowski on Dec 31, 2008 12:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Real Smart!!
That’s real wise. Replace a streak shooter who has been off a bit for a few games. Using that logic we would have traded away Ray Allen last year. As long as House is required to be at the top of the key with the ball instead of the 2 where he belongs he will shoot a lower percentage. I would agree with putting Gabe in for TA and having him run the point moving House to the 2. That would cure a lot of ills.
by EJPLAYA on Dec 31, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably a bad trade but his my shot
Basically trade our bench(Powe, Giddens, House, Allen, and Scal) for Some big man help(Mikki Moore), a SF with a real offensive game(Francisco Garcia) and a PG that’s shown a little something this year(Bobby Brown).
I have not a clue as to why Sacramento would do this other than to get a promising PF and a SG prospect and some cap space in a year or two. I know Brad Miller is who Sacramento wants to move but we don’t have the parts for that.
by nickagneta on Dec 31, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Garcia
he’s got a wierd, unidentified, cheap, long contract with a team option in the 2020s. see below:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/kings.jsp
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia signed an extension with the Kings this Summer
$30 million per 5 years. A longer contract the one we didn’t give to Posey.
Garcia is a bad defender. I wouldn’t call him a SF. He’s smaller than Tony Allen. Taller, but smaller, at least he looks like it.
I’d love to grab Bobby Brown, he was one of my favourites young players in Europe last season. Anyway, I very doubt the Kings do that deal.
by cordobes on Dec 31, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah foster would be an awesome addition.
by moiso on Dec 31, 2008 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You Won't Get Foster But...
I doubt if we have what it takes to get Foster. Indiana has been trying to move Jamaal Tinsley, bue he has three years left on his deal. Too expensive.
by Brickowski on Dec 31, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Foster idea that sheds Tinsley as well
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Dec 31, 2008 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Foster idea that sheds Tinsley as well
Looks good for the Cs and the Pacers, but Priesti doesn’t want Tinsley around his young squad, does he? That’s IF he can trade Watson.
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they have money to burn
and can cut Tinsley outright to pick up assets
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Dec 31, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re: they have money to burn
19million to burn? damn! why not just pay it to Davis this offseason, which is what they’d have to do anyway. 19mil is alot for a Big Baby rental and some Giddens…
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Dec 31, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that looks good for the Pacers?
I guess because Wilcox and Scal are on shorter contracts than Foster? But Foster’s actually, you know, a good player— even mediocre teams like having those around. Am I missing something?
by PJ Martinez on Dec 31, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re: that looks good for the Pacers?
what you’re missing is Tinsley. um, they’re trying to get rid of the guy…
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they wanted to throw in Foster just to get rid of Tinsley
They would have found a trade already.
by cordobes on Dec 31, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
trade with toronto
we need a long athletic solid defender and hustle guy to come off the bench behind PP.
toronto lacks physical physical strength in the post, (outside of JO) so we swap either Davis or Powe for jamario moon.
toronto gets a physical 4 to play behind o’neal and alongside bosh.
we get our posey replacement.
by arctic 3.0 on Dec 31, 2008 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
interesting idea...
Moon’s getting fewer minutes this year than last. He’s not young, so I’m not sure giving up Powe for him is a great idea, but maybe… Davis I’d do, in a heatbeat, but I doubt Toronto would
by PJ Martinez on Dec 31, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yepp, Toronto
Maybe Andrea Bargnani?
What Tornoto really needs are wing players.
Tony + Walker + Scal + Pick for Barganani.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2367102134642987&teams=2828282&te=&cash=
by Casperian on Dec 31, 2008 2:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Toronto likes Bargnani, as far as I know...
… and he’s supposedly improving. I don’t know why they move him, unless they have doubts about re-signing him, and even then I suspect they’d look for more than castoffs and a second-round flyer with potential…
Moon intrigues me, though. And I do think Toronto will want to deal, given their disappointing year— even if it means within the division.
by PJ Martinez on Dec 31, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the trade: CHI/SAC/BOS
Chicago wants some security at the 2 with Gordon leaving and scoring in the post. Ty Thomas hasn’t worked out well there, so they’re willing to move him to address these needs and in turn add salary, but not without find a way to dump some themselves.
Sac-town is rebuilding. They need help all over the place and an influx of youth, and want to create cap space.
Boston wants Nocioni and are willing to pay for him, even if it means letting go of some intruguiing young pieces.
Sac immediately cuts Simmons and POB, while negotiating a buyout with Scal and or Kenny Thomas. They then have an interesting young nucleus to work with around K Mart, Ty Thomas, Thompson, TA Pruitt, etc. Sure they’d rather just get Gooden’s expiring deal directly from Chi, but the Bulls want to maintain some flexibility for the future and would rather shed Nocioni.
Chicago become a stronger, addressing possitions of need, while actually reducing their overall commitment to salary leading up to the summer of 2010.
The Cs get a bench presense they desperately need, while giving up one rotation player (TA) and one guy they really like (Pruitt).
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 3:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why do we want Nocioni?
He’s a worse version of Posey with a longer, more expensive, contract. If Ainge didn’t keep Posey, why the heck would he trade for El Chapu?
by cordobes on Dec 31, 2008 3:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why do we want Nocioni?
Because 1) we should have kept Posey, 2) our bench sucks, and 3) we want to win another championship and numbers 1 and 2 will prevent that.
Nocioni is also better at getting his own shot than Pose was, and another interesting point: his contract actually decreases over the years. He makes 7.5mil next year, 6.8 the following and 6.6 in 2011.
Look, he’s far from perfect, but as we’ve discussed with what we’ve got to offer not alot of choice out there…
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
get stephon & hand him the keys to the 2nd unit
by tommyfan on Dec 31, 2008 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I keep repeating this..
We need size at the SF and PF/C positions. We trade with NJ(eastern conference team with no real expectations), and they have an abundance of BIGmen. We trade Scal, POB, big Baby, and (sorry) Giddens.
POB is thrown in there to match salaries, then NJ can just cut him. Scal is a team guy and NJ needs someone like this. Big Baby can play the backup PF(his specialty) and bring energy. We need to throw Giddens in there because he has the most upside of the people we’re moving and somehow have to make NJ interested. Picture him as a mini Vince Carter. NJ at this point needs to fill their seats so another YOUNG high flyer will help in that department.
They rid themselves of Najera who is barely playing and is of really no use on a subpar team. Najera is an energy, clean up the scraps type of player who excels on good teams. On bad teams too much is asked of him. They rid themselves of Sean Williams, who they just sent down to the D-League. I know he probably has a bad attitude, but I bet with KG barking at him, he might cry like Bigbaby, lol. seriously though, he just needs good role models, and players that demand respect. (no 1 on NJ has that). And finally Jarvis Hayes, is a decent bench player, and most importantly he is a 6’8 utility player. We cover all of our weaknesses and free up a roster spot for…hmmmm..I dont know……PJ BROWN maybe? I think we should seriously look into NJ as a trading partner even if the trade doesnt end up including the exact players I named.
by EatSleepBreatheGreen on Dec 31, 2008 3:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
re: I keep repeating this..
PJ Brown just announced his retirement, and NJ is not trading with us. Niether are the Knicks, Sixers or Raps. No one wants to trade in their own division.
by ssspence on Dec 31, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
any early votes for your favorite of the above ideas?
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Dec 31, 2008 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
David Lee and Ronnie Brewer to Celts for Scal + Cash
by KG08 on Dec 31, 2008 4:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like it
but why would NY trade away Lee?
by silvershamrocker on Dec 31, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3200342910212016&teams=1112&te=&cash=
Pachulia for Scal, JR, Baby
Smith for Scal, JR, Baby, a 2nd Rd pick too, and cash.
How much you think they would save with a buyout? Maybe Garnett kicks in to have his buddy around, jk. But OKC could get better then that… perhaps. Scal is gonna wind up in the role Cassell has one day. He could potentially provide leadership right now for OKC. I have a feeling Baby isn’t around next year anyway. JR provides something Wilkens, and Watson don’t, could fit well with Westbrook, and also could replace Mason next year.
It doesn’t kill our bench, Smith is obvious, we actually save a whooping 80k towards the cap, and Powe gets more minutes.
by Jubunta on Dec 31, 2008 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Making a trade isnt the answer
Anyone we trade outside of the big three will not bring enough back, the C’s salary is too top heavy. I would sit Davis and start giving POB some serious burn. Also mix the frontcourt rotation a bit so POB gets some time with Garnett and Perkins dont just play him with Powe. I would also give Gabe a run by sitting House. House was out of the rotation last march and when called upon in the cleveland series he stepped up. A spurt on the bench wont damage Eddies confidence. The Coaching staff has to be creative with what they have, a trade is only going to disrupt chemistry.
by FatjohnReturns on Dec 31, 2008 5:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Call me crazy
But I’m a little nervous about losing Tony in a trade. I got POB and Baby for Booth and old friend Ryan Gomes… too bad McHale isn’t still in charge.
by chunnamark on Dec 31, 2008 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Aaron Gray
I wonder what it would take to get Aaron Gray from the Bulls. He’s the center I’d want from that team, not Noah, Thomas or Gooden.
by Brickowski on Dec 31, 2008 6:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Clippers? why not?
Sure, Ricky is a problem child. Anyone think he wouldnt play his butt off for a chance at a ring? Skinner in the back up we need for Perk, sorry Leon. We have enough shooters Eddie, we need length. Gabe and Sam both play PG too.
Trades are not always going to work out equal in terms of talent exchanged. That said, if you can get a player who will help you, even short term, you do it.
"First fix their hearts"-Eizo Shimabuku
by billysan on Dec 31, 2008 8:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How about the Bucks?
We might need to adjust this a little with a draft pick or cash, but I think it would work because they want to move Charlie V, who would make a nice 6th man for us. Giddens is a nice wing talent to compensate and Scal is the ultimate good citizen. Croshere is the throw in that is a real potential value in spot minutes. Certainly just as versatile and much cheaper than Scal.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=342910211672792&teams=151522&te=&cash=
"First fix their hearts"-Eizo Shimabuku
by billysan on Dec 31, 2008 9:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thunder?
I know, this one is a little outlandish but it might work with some adjustment. I think if the rumors are true that Wilcox will test the market and that Wilkins is persona non grata, the Thunder may decide to get something for them before they leave for free.
Who knows?
"First fix their hearts"-Eizo Shimabuku
by billysan on Dec 31, 2008 9:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Basically Gadz is the backup C the Celtics need.
Crosher is the outside shooting PF they could use to spread the floor at times.
For the Bucks, it is a money saving move plus an extra two young players.
by Wide Load on Dec 31, 2008 9:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would too
… but I don’t think OK would. We can hope.
by VtCeltics on Jan 1, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
the things is, I don’t know if anyone would want Scal on their roster. If he was on the final year of his contract, then yeah.
I like the Foster idea. He would fit in really well.
Gone are the days when the Celts were able to pick up guys like Scotty Wedman, Jerry Sichting, Ed Pickney, Joe Kleine, DJ, Ray Williams, Tiny Archibald, for next to nothing.
The last big trade before last years was the Rodney Rodgers trade. It set the team back for a long time.
This years only chance for a big trade is to trade a number 1 pick and a starting player, which I don’t think Danny Ainge would do (unless it’s for Wade, Bosh or any top caliber players).
Maybe next year, they can convince the Big Aristotle to join the team for a run at a championship.
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on Jan 1, 2009 4:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
1.I would try and get Swift and Smith from Oklahoma (ideally in exchange of O’Bryant and Davis, but salaries don’t work)
2. I would give some use to Gabe Pruitt, either by making him the backup PG or by using him in a trade
3. We need a SF that can score and defend. I am not sure who could do that right now. Why don’t we call Walker from the Dleague and see what he can do?
by greenwise on Jan 1, 2009 5:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The last big trade before last years was the Rodney Rodgers trade. It set the team back for a long time.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/12/30/hawks_johnson_pacers_trade.html
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on Jan 1, 2009 5:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
By the way…i suppose it would be crazy and it hurts to think about it but.. would Marbury provide that scoring and playmaking off the bench?? I know, i must be tired from last night’s celebrations. Just wondering though :P
by greenwise on Jan 1, 2009 5:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Best Trade
Lot’s of ideas above, but read the article in the Boston Globe about the way Ray, KG and Paul meet after every game to discuss issues. These guys care an awful lot and together with Doc, the Assistants, and their Teamates they will solve their problems, which I believe are being over emphasized based on this road trip. This team was just plain tired. They are also a family oriented group and most missed the first Christmas with their young children. If these four games were played in Boston I think they would have taken them all.
Just to get this off my mind. The Officiating in Portland was truly horrendous. The 6 vs 5 play stands out and the officials say they didn’t see it before the play. But, I’m pretty sure I remember Perk yelling it out to them before the play. Then there was the perfect play by House who had his feet set well outside the circle and the the Officials called it a block rather than the correct call that should have been a charge on Diogu. Then there was Oden’s obvious walk that gave them another 2 points. And there were others. I think the Celtics played poorly and deserved to lose, but I think these officials need to be fined or fired. And what makes it worse is the NBA backs them up. Rant over. Now let’s move on.
by TrueGreen on Jan 1, 2009 9:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Foster & Miller
If you all had done recent scouting on Foster & Brad Miller you would have seen that they have slowed down. They aren’t an improvement over BBD & Powe.
How about Mohammed who doesn’t get ten minutes a night. Why not take a flyer on Sean Williams who was sent to the NBDL 12/29? Give NJ POB in return monies equal out!!!
I agree with the assessment on House & Pruitt. Let’s see what Pruitt can or cannot do. We know that House is 2 bomber not a PG distributor for the second unit.
by BigT1942 on Jan 1, 2009 10:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Height
Doc Rivers has said on a number of occasions that P.J. Brown was an upgrade over Powe and Big Baby because of his height, and he’s right- for the center position at least.
Jeff Foster, Mikki Moore or even Dan Gadzuric would be good, but all three make over $5 million each. Gadzuric actually earns $6.2 million this year!
Here is a quick list of other players that might fit the bill:
Adonal Foyle
Jake Tsakalidis (free agent according to his Wikipedia page)
Juwan Howard (free agent)
Kwame Brown
Lorenzen Wright
Steven Hunter
and some other tall players above our price range ($5 million and over):
Darko Milicic
Etan Thomas
Nazr Mohammed
by Ruben Wolkowyski on Jan 1, 2009 10:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's not just about height
None of the names mentioned above will help us. I like Foster, but haven’t seen him play much and some say he is past helping us. PJ Brown is in a different class from all of the above. He was a great locker room guy who helped other players improve their games. And he did the job on the court when he was needed.
by TrueGreen on Jan 1, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough, all of the guys on the above list aren’t in the same class as P.J. Brown but very few big men are. Joe Smith would be the best replacement for Brown and even he is light-years behind, but it would be a big upgrade over O’Bryant…
I reckon Etan Thomas would be perfect, especially for his defense.
by Ruben Wolkowyski on Jan 1, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
6’8" athletic glue guy who worked his butt of to make it to the show…team player who would have no problem coming of the bench, long armed tenacious defender who loves the challenge of taking on big time scorers…
who is this guy? james posey? no, jamario moon!
if danny doesn’t get him before the deadline i bet he targets him the 28 year old free agent summer
by arctic 3.0 on Jan 1, 2009 12:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Moon would be a good stop-gap acquisition.
by Who on Jan 1, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Needs
I think we need a quality veteran big. I don’t know enough about Joe Smith to know if he’s the guy. I also don’t think there’s an available big I would trade for. I’d rather get a guy like Smith who will be paid off and get him on the cheap. We can easily create roster space by dropping O’Bryant or Cassell (retire to coaching). The one thing I think we can do without trading is to play Pruitt more against bigger guards. Blake killed us the other night. I think Gabe, because of his height could have defended him better than Rondo, even if Rondo was playing well. Rondo will gamble and often defies what Doc wants. That’s both good and bad. But Pruitt will do what Doc says and he would have stayed on Blake. This is a specific example, but I would generalize this. Also, Rondo takes a beating in games. We know we need him to set pace, but I think he may need as much rest as KG at times. The second unit doesn’t need to pace the game. It needs to play great defense, rebound and get loose balls. Enough offense will come from this alone.
by TrueGreen on Jan 1, 2009 8:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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