10 Things

I’d argue that the trade for Kenny Anderson and the trade for Delk and Rogers were both good trades.

In the case of Kenny Anderson, it’s easy for us to all sit here and look at the player Billups is today and call that a bad trade. But the fact is Billups was nothing until a a few years ago, and we weren’t the only team to give up on him. If Wallace hadn’t traded him then, we all would have been trying to trade him in every other conceivable scenario. Kenny Anderson was our PG for 4 years and a very large part of the conference finals run.

Delk and Rogers were the deadline aquisitions that made the difference in that run. Sure, that run was probably counter-productive, but hey, it was fun and they took a shot. Joe Johnson is a good player (now overpaid). They gave up a good player (who had done nothing to that point due to lack of opportunity given by OB) and got two role playing pieces for an improbable playoff run. Not Wallaces fault Gaston wouldn’t let him resign Rogers.

There’s plenty to criticize Wallace on, but I just don’t think those two trades are it.

Can somebody with a better memory than me please clarify: I seem to recall that the Delk/Rogers deal was mostly in place with Randy Brown and Palacio, and the final decision was Kedrick Brown or Joe Johnson. Phoenix would have taken either, and Wallace chose to keep Kedrick because of his athleticism and “upside”. Am I making things up in my head or did it actually go down that way?

Yeah, but they could have done that trade without trading Joe Johnson. The Suns would have taken Kedrick Brown.

The whole thing was shortsighted anyway. It was never leading to a title.

Every time Chris Wallace makes a deal, an angel loses its wings.

One interesting thing about Celtics tradition – the way Davis pushed around Duncan reminds me of the way Wayne Embry used to push around Wilt Chamberlain. That low center of gravity really upset Chamberlain’s ability to set his feet for those turnarounds. The vast knowledge and experience gathered from this team’s history is being used wisely and passed to this new generation.

That’s possible, but the undisputed part is that Wallace is the one who chose to keep Brown and move Johnson.

If anyone ever asks, “What’s the worst trade in Celtics history?”

The answer is: A second round draft choice to Miami for the rights to hire Chris Wallace- because every one of those transactions above came from that deal.

The Suns weren’t interested in Kedrick Brown. The team that was interested in Kedrick was Cleveland, who asked for him instead of EWill in the Ricky Davis trade.

The Delk-Rogers trade got them to the EC finals that year. They would not have made it that far with Joe Johnson, who was still relatively clueless at that point. Was the deal short-sighted? Yes. And frankly the Garnett trade could turn out to be equally short-sighted if it doesn’t produce a championship. Time will tell.

The Gasol deal will help Memphis in the long run. For starters, the Grizz will have another high lotto pick agains this year, plus two LA first rounders in the next two years. Add Michael Beasley, Danilo Galinari or Roy Hibbert to what the Grizz have now and the tream improves considerably. The 4-5 extra games they might win by keeping Gasol could easily cost them big time in the draft lottery. Plus they get two first rounders (probably in the 20s) from LA.

Memphis was getting a great pick with Gasol. They can’t play much worse than they were. Now they’re risking having good chemistry. Plus they gave up a second rounder to LA. I bet LA gets a better player with that choice than Memphis does with the LA pick.

The Garnett trade is good because it makes the Celtics bonsfide contenders. The Rogers deal only made the Celtics pretenders. It was an illusory title runâ€" they should have been building to a championship. They were never close. The whole thing was a dead end from the start. Instead they only wanted short term money for Mr. Gaston.

Now it’s just like then. Only now it’s Heisley. I guess he really REALLY wants to be the 350th most wealthy American. Good luck to him.

Correct me if I’m wrong. Chris Wallace passed on Kobe Bryant in favor of Antoine Walker. Also, Doc can’t coach very well. He’s a cheerleader. If ever an assistant coach deserves coach of the year it’s this year (so far) for Tom Thibedeau (spell?). At best Doc is a cheerleader. The difference this year is that he has many seasoned veterans who don’t need a lot of coaching and Garnett is a coach on the floor. Also, you can’t tell me that Doc all of sudden got religion and was able to turn one of the worst defensive teams into the best in six months. Doc’s record as a coach simply does not bare out that kind of dramatic shift. It’s the assistant coach. Ainge is Executive of the Year.

“****” is a profanity now? (edited)

Also, thanks to Brickowski for the clarification on my Joe Johnson/Kedrick Brown Suns trade question.

I’m with you on #6. Without doubt Thibodeau has brought something to the party but Doc’s useed his assets well. He remains popular with his players. I think he has done a good coaching job and I think Grousbeck and Danny ahve done their job by backing him.

Finally, here’s to bringing back L’il Phunk two times (and thus two times less the dancers)

The Grizzlies Owner came out and said that he made the Gasol trade. It has nothing to do with Wallace.

I had forgotten some of those horrible moves. Nice job Gant! It’s funny how a couple of them you could attempt to pretend they might work out if you thought hopefully enough!

Here’s an interesting stat on past moves. Anyone here think this time in the season that Telfair would have better stats than Delonte?

I don’t believe the Rodgers/Delk was so terrible. The Celtics new JJ was going to be a decent player (everyone did) and it’s why the Suns wanted him. The deep playoff run was not necessarily fools gold, but the Celtics were a flawed team. Delk and Rodgers were extremely valuable role players, especially Rodgers with his wide body, rebounding, and ability to draw bigs out of the paint with his range.
History now shows us that the Vin Baker trade was a gamble. Gaston did not want to resign Rodgers because he was looking to sell the team. The C’s needed another big body. Baker was troubled but they had GOOD reason to believe Vin would make a comeback: 1) he had admited to his problem and was seeking help 2) he was closer to his support structure in Boston that could help him through the process 3) he was a lifelong Celtics fan who had always wanted to play here. Unfortunately Vin’s weaknes won out. It’s no laughing matter and I find it pathetic that the public often scorn/ridicule him for being unable to combat his personal demons. What goes around comes around. I hope to see those who mock that poor man and his battles humbeled. Had Vin Baker turned his career around there very well may have been a title run in the Walker/Pierce era. It was a gamble and it failed.

Joe Johnson was an excellent pick, Brown was an intriguing talent, and it was Red that wanted Forte, not Wallace. Wallace wanted Parker (I believe it was documented and even Red alluded to this before he passed away). Don’t pin that on Wallace. As for picking Shawn Marion – who knows, that’s pure speculation. We dont know what the C’s would have done had that deal not been made.
Because the vast majority of us are not privy to the politics/nuances of dealing with players/picks etc in the NBA it would hardly seem sane or even fair to criticise an executive for deals we think[/i] they [i]should[/i] have made or [i]would have made in theory.

Doc has been outstanding, and I still havent seen any apologies for the derision or personal attacks made against him during the team’s struggles. I think this 4-2 (and not over) stand without Kevin Garnett is an excellent example of the coaching job that Doc has done with this team. Crow should be eaten and apologies made, even if they are never read by Glen. It should start with a very public apology by Bill Simmons . . .

the 2001 draft will be the one that will hound Wallace’s term as Gm of the Celtics, first of all, it is true that Wallace should have just stuck with two picks in that draft instead of three and yess, should have rolled that Denver pick in the next couple of yrs…(could have had Melo or Amare as mentioned)….Its baffling as well because picking two players playing the same position(Johnson and Brown) really made no sense whatso ever, He was drooling all over Brown then and if so, he sill could have had Brown with the 21st pick which turned out to be Forte..Another Bust.

That 2001 draft was suppose to bridge the gap between PP, Antoine and Al Jefferson but we ended up suffering from 2004-2007 because we virtually gave up our opportunities in that 2001 draft…its sad, I could just imagine what DA could have done if he had all those picks in 2001 as Danny has a tremendous knack on talent.

To the apologists who say Wallace is a victim of bad owners …

There was a time when Wallace had his pick of NBA front-office jobs (the Celtics had to trade for him!). The SECOND he saw that Gaston was going to run roughshod over him (and now the Griz owner), he should have QUIT immediately.

Any profressional knows you don’t stick with a job that can kill your professional rep. You quit and move on. That he chose to stay means ALL of the responsibility lies with him.

Great job as always Mr Gant, thank you.

The Big 4, I like that.

I have a theory that Doc has not played BB a lot lately against potential Eastern Conference play off opponents, just to make sure they do not scout him too much. I think BB is our X Factor in the play offs and the less our opposition knows about him and how to play him, the better. I could of course be totally wrong, but it is just a trend I have noticed.

TA is the other sleeper in the pack.

As to Mr Wallace, all I can say is, I am happy he is in Memphis.

Go the Green !!!!

Cheers

Aussie

Clearly the worst move was Vin Baker. Wallace and the entire Celtics organization were grossly negligent in not doing their homework on Baker. They did not discover his drinking problem and the extent to which his skills had deteriorated. With that much money at stake over the long term, that failure was simply inexcusable.

The 2001 draft was largely Red Auerbach’s fault. Wallace was extremely high on some 19 year-old French kid named Parker, but Auerbach wanted to draft Joe Forte with pick #21 as a favor to his buddy Morgan Wooten, the coach at deMatha. When you look at the great players who went later in the draft— Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Mehmet Okur, Gerald Wallace, Dalembert, Tinsley— it really makes you sick.

First of all, quitting the booze ain’t easy. I have a whole
family tree that found quitting the booze a battle. Wallace is
the Peter Principle in action. Probably a decent scout or an
assistant GM but just not the guy you want running the show.
The Vin Baker deal was a classic case of a team not doing their
homework and paying the price in wasted money and lost games.

Brick,

Forte was Wallaces pick, they orginially said that about RED so that everyone thought he was still active, when he wasn’t. I agree with you on the others, but I had a friend who worked in the office….. It really wasn’t Red’s pick… it was all a facade to make it look like Red was a part again and to let the other GM’s now…..

It backfired badly…..

But Red took the hit for that one.

It makes me sick as well what that organization did to make things worse than what they actually looked like……

Poor Red was completely out of it….and was only there as a symbol from what I was told……

We just had incompetent/buffoons running the organization

Well I thought the Joe Johnson move was the worst. I really liked Joe. He started the season really well and then just hit a momentary road block, I call it that because his skill set was clearly going to get him back on track. It was a very poor trade. Those vets were good but they weren’t bringing a ring with them and the C’s didn’t have a chance to build a contender any other way. Keeping Joe was always the best option. Was very upset that day.

It was a very poor trade. Those vets were good but they weren’t bringing a ring with them and the C’s didn’t have a chance to build a contender any other way.

Hmmm … unclear …. there were no other moves after that trade that Boston could have done to make the team a true contender. It was a wasted move. That’s what I meant.

brick i agree with you 90-95% of the time, but no way will the garnett trade ever be short sighted. he has changed the culture of this team dramatically. people want to play here. even tho he’s out, the team still plays defense and his voice is heard.sure, we all miss big al who has a great future, but i have a gut feeling al will never be a good defensive player and defense wins championships. i don’t think al would have drawn house and posey here. and we are in need of a long post season now or next year, but this is not the antoine-pp team of the playoffs. i won’t predict how far we’ll go, and i never would have predicted 39-9,but this has been a whale of a journey so far, an amazing trip. one day at a time.

Oof. Wallace’s record looks like a list of con man jobs. “Took Wallace again, had a good laugh over that one…”

Bad picks, bad trades.

Baker had been a legendary drunk in the League who hadn’t admitted his problem or even begun the road to recovery (he still hasn’t, although I hope he gets help soon). Seattle was DESPERATE to get rid of him. They must of thought Santa was calling when Wallace picked up the phone. Seattle got the better of that deal, to say the least.

The 2001 draft? I’d rather talk about Len Bias. And I don’t want to talk about him at all.

The JJ trade… The C’s definitely traded the future for the present in that deal, but who can say how that future would have turned out in the long run. JJohnson didn’t like playing 2nd or 3rd banana to Nash, Marion or Amare on a wildly successful Suns team. How would he have felt begging for shots after Pierce & AW on a less successful Celtics team?

As for Wallace’s present, the Gasol deal looks great for the Lakers…