Ben Wallace Is Not The Answer To KG

I think KG or Perk can handle Wallace. I believe Perk has played him well in the past. A few people on TV last nite thought Joe Smith might be the key to this deal. I really don’t think the Cavs are better vs us because Gooden has always hurt us and Hughes killed us last game. They’re gone.

Wallace to me looks like he’s almost done. He was non-existent last night and apparently that’s the way he played in Chicago. Iglauskas did the most damage on the board vs. the C’s. Plus it looked like KG could score on Wallace any time he wanted to — though his timing is still off.

I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions from last night’s game. Both teams were tired, and it was a lackluster performance all around. You could just as easily conclude that Pierce is almost done, given his 12 points and 6 turnovers in 38 minutes.

When Garnett is hitting 18-20 foot jumpers he cannot be stopped— by anyone. That is one of the reasons why KG is a 20 million dollar player.

let’s put it this way- wallace was ineffective last night. perk was ineffective keeping ilgauskus off the boards, but the refs were on perk. varejao stunk too but i worry about the cavs. wally was off and so was lebron but they killed us on the boards, something that has been a sort of refrain lately. get in shape, pj. if the cavs were hitting shots we would be in trouble. they also shut down pp, or did pp shut himself down?

Quite often, the Celtics offense is initiated with having Garnett in the low post with the ball in his hands. I imagine that precisely because Garnett is not known as a low-post threat, the Cavs would like to have Wallace on him and not double-team. We’ll see how this is going to work out.

RH – to be fair, the majority of the time, KG does play with his back to the basket in the midpost. When he’s involved in the pick ’n roll is an obvious exception – like last night. But I think his mindset is definitely to get low to mid post position, back to the basket, take an entry pass, face up and either pass, take a jumper, or go to the hoop.

This is my biggest hope for getting Cassell… he and KG are the prototype pick ’n roll pair.

If you really want to bask in Wallace-bashing (as I do), check out old fart Charley Rosen:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7830390/New-Cavs-are-no-better-than-old-Cavs

Big Ben and Handy Andy on the court together is a disaster for the Cleveland offense. Having those two guys on the same roster is lunacy. Gooden was the perfect counterbalance to Veragao, at a third of the cost of Big Ben.

If I’m in a playoff game with the Cavs, and I’m in the penalty already, I’d foul Wallace every single possession up until the two minute mark, and after that I would instruct my players to run into him every time he tries to set a pick. His last year with the Pistons, he shot 27% from the line!

Charlie Rosen is on target – in fact I would say he doesn’t go far enough. Drew Gooden was a much better match for KG. Wallace is done as he just doesn’t have the otherwordly athleticism and spring he used to rely so much on.. Wally can’t D up anyone and our favorite little stat padder D. West isn’t going to save them.

Hughes, Gooden, and Ira Newble represented alot of their defensive talent.. like them or not.. They helped key that finals run with their good D.

The ignorance over Ben Wallace across the league hurts my head. Since when has he been a stopper? He’s never been a top one-on-one defender. He’s been distinctly average throughout his whole career. He was a superb help defender who wreaked havoc around the rim. Not a stopper. Never a stoppper. You don’t sign a Ben Wallace to stop someone. You sign him to shore up your interior D. Cleveland didn’t need that with Big Z and Varajeo already there.

What’s with these frickin’ NBA analysts … it’s like there’s only one type of defender? Fools

Ben Wallace was always going to make Cleveland worse. He can’t handle Kevin Garnett. Never could. KG has always had his number. Where’s the due diligence from Ferry? He couldn’t have watched one of the dozen or so games over the last 6 years?

Ben Wallace was never a stopper. Rasheed is a stopper. He’s the guy you bring in to handle specific players, not Ben Wallace.

Wallace is another one of these players that over-relied on his athleticism and never developed his game. Scottie Pippen had it right on the money earlier in the year when he said the difference between Rodman and Ben was that Rodman knew how he got his rebounds. Rodman’s game was a science. It was studious and full of dedication. Big Ben never put that work in. He never had that intelligence. He never developed himself like a Rodman. He’s fall from grace was always going to be swift and painful. Once the athleticism started to go so too did his game.

Idiotic trade. Varajeo is already better than Ben Wallace. But Ben’s big ego and contract will be served which means Joe Smith won’t play. The same Joe Smith who defends Kevin Garnett better than just about every player in the league (he knows all his moves from playing with KG). But that won’t happen. Joe will be lucky to get 10mpg.

Drew Gooden was an excellent player for Cleveland. All the disgust that came his way was ridiculous. He did a fantastic job defensively on KG in the past (better than Joe). He’s an excellent rebounder and he gives them some offense. He’s also young, improving and on a great contract. Look at how important Andy Varajeo is to Cleveland? Well Gooden starts over him and he started because he did more to help the team than Varajeo did. This was a very important player.

The guy Cleveland miss most is Larry Hughes. His loss killed their hopes of contending. They’re done and they’re done until they trade Wally.

[quote][ The guy Cleveland miss most is Larry Hughes. His loss killed their hopes of contending. /quote]

I couldn’t disagree more. Let’s see how well Chicago does with Hughes and Gooden. They are only 2 games out of the 8th spot.

Roy Hobbs said:

While KG may initiate the offense from the post at times, that’s certainly not where he does most of his scoring.

As 82games.com broke it down, his percentage of baskets are as follows:

74% jump
16% close
8% dunks
1% tips

“Inside” scoring only accounts for 26% of KG’s total scoring.

Agree with all that, but two things:

1) I think initiating the offense the post, without actually scoring there, is still an offensive threat. So I would still say his primary threat is in the post, but certainly nothing to the tune of someone like Duncan.

2) As far as inside scoring goes, I think those stats are limited to around the basket. KG’s baseline fadeaway, turnaround over his left sshoulder, and baseline face up jumpers all qualify as post moves in my opinion. They are certainly not deep post moves, but I consider them post moves nonetheless. I think they are counted in the “jump” category in 82games.com, however.

Either way, for the most part I agree with you, KG has one of the best mid-to-long range strokes in the game, so treating/planning/defending to only stop him inside is silly.

Eeyore III said:
  If I were the Cavs, I’d try Joe Smith on KG. Why Smith didn’t get more minutes last night is a mystery.

Absolutely agree. Not many players in this league have played against/with KG more than Smith. He’s also a similar body type and with a similar (albeit significantly less impressive) skill set. I didn’t even think about this last night because I missed the game, but after that trade it was one of the first things I considered – Smith is a decent option for slowing Garnett.

cant you see that if Wallace “kept Garnett out of the post” than that means he IS the answer to KG?? KG isn’t going to be nailing 20 ft jumpers for 4 out of 7 games. If the Celtics cant score in the post against the Cavs then they cant beat them

The guy Cleveland miss most is Larry Hughes. His loss killed their hopes of contending. [/quote]

I couldn’t disagree more. Let’s see how well Chicago does with Hughes and Gooden. They are only 2 games out of the 8th spot.

He was their best perimeter defender on the best perimeter defense in the league. The Celts destroyed the Cavs all night because he wasn’t around anymore. They had 16 fewer shots and still won because they were able to score so easily.

There’s a reason Ray Allen had one of his best shooting nights of the season, the reason was Larry Hughes wasn’t in his face all game long.

He was also their second best passer and second best ballhandler. He was their best player at running their offense.

He was also the guy that guarded Chauncey Billups. Now Detroit’s high scoring backcourt is going to have free-reign scoring wise. Cleveland can’t beat Detroit in a 7 game series without Hughes’ defense against Chauncey.

Watch him in Chicago. Watch him score 16-20ppg (he’s putting up 18ppg already off the bench). Watch him D up all opposing shooting guards. Chicago’s record will improve substantially with Hughes on board (assuming Boylan gets his head out of his … and stops leaving his best players on the bench).

Drew Gooden is their best big man now too. He’s putting up 13 and 11 right now for them. That’s probably an accurate display, I’d expect 14-15 and 11 in Chicago because he’ll finally get some more minutes and touches offensively than he got in Cleveland.

Watch their record in Chicago. Watch Chicago make a late season push.

….

PS Boylan better not let me down. He’s the only guy there that makes me nervous. What the heck is he doing? He had Deng, Gordon, Hughes, Gooden on the bench 3 games ago. He only put Deng in the starting lineup because he struggled off the bench. Thabo shouldn’t be playing ahead of any of their 4 guards and he shouldn’t be getting minutes ahead of Deng/Noce either at SF. Boylan really has to get his act together. This whole college mentality of players that work hardest in training will get the minutes lark is garbage. Get over yourself and start coaching to win.

celticsmaniac said:
  cant you see that if Wallace “kept Garnett out of the post” than that means he IS the answer to KG?? KG isn’t going to be nailing 20 ft jumpers for 4 out of 7 games. If the Celtics cant score in the post against the Cavs then they cant beat them

I really don’t know the answer to this, but how many points did the C’s have in the post last nite. KG isn’t really a post player. If Wallace can keep KG out of the paint that would help because that’s where he does his passing from. The problem is that KG doesn’t have a “sweet” spot down there. He can play anywhere in the area to do his passing and when he holds the ball high Wallace can’t get at it and double teaming doesn’t help. If that’s the reasoning behind this trade I don’t know what the Cav’s were thinking, but who cares.

Big Ticket said:
  

    Eeyore III said:
    If I were the Cavs, I’d try Joe Smith on KG. Why Smith didn’t get more minutes last night is a mystery.



Absolutely agree. Not many players in this league have played against/with KG more than Smith. He’s also a similar body type and with a similar (albeit significantly less impressive) skill set. I didn’t even think about this last night because I missed the game, but after that trade it was one of the first things I considered – Smith is a decent option for slowing Garnett.

Problem is that he’s not going to play

They can’t play him ahead of Big Z. You need his offense too much.

They’re not going to play him ahead of Big Ben because of his ego, contract and reputation. They should but they won’t.

They won’t and shouldn’t play him ahead of Varajeo. He’s their best defender, he’s their enforcer, he’s a better rebounder, he gives incredible energy and hustle to a team that lacks it. He also gets inside opponents heads (Sheed lost it because of Varajeo, no other reason, he also irked Tim Duncan big time in the Finals)

If Joe Smith even gets 10 minutes a night he’ll be doing well. And he is their best option on KG, I like how he defends KG, always have, ever since his GSW days. He’s not playing ahead of Big Ben and Big Ben is the only guy Joe should play ahead of.

……………….

Drew Gooden did a fantastic job on KG earlier this season and he’s done well in the past too. I think he’s better than Joe at guarding KG (with the aid of Cleveland’s previous perimeter D which is now gone). Gooden made Kevin work hard for his shots and kept him away from the paint. Gooden’s length and quickness really stops KG from being aggressive in the post. KG being a jump shooter is the best case scenario for the opposition and Drew by and large did a great job of turning him into that.

Prior to their trade Cleveland had the best perimeter defense in the league. With big long players like Bron, Hughes, Sasha gave KG problems when they came down and double teamed him. They were very effective at keeping KG off that post. This was a huge help to Drew Gooden on KG because he isn’t as good a defender as Joe by himself.

But that perimeter D is long gone. Goodbye Larry Hughes. Welcome Wally and Delonte.

If Wallace can keep KG out of the paint that would help because that’s where he does his passing from.

Delete this sentence from the above post. I was basically trying to say that KG does his passing anywhere in that area, he doesn’t need to be in the low post so KG will just go where it’s easy to get to. As far as hitting the outside shot consistently, KG can do that. Wallace has no affect, really, on what KG does. Gooden, at least, would make KG play defense.

cant you see that if Wallace “kept Garnett out of the post” than that means he IS the answer to KG?? KG isn’t going to be nailing 20 ft jumpers for 4 out of 7 games. If the Celtics cant score in the post against the Cavs then they cant beat them

uhhhh have you watched us much this year? thats his shot. he takes that shot every time he gets the space. every time.

in fact, if i could change one thing about his game, it would be that he take that shot LESS, or at least pump fake off it once or twice.

he’s taken and made that mid range jumper as his primary shot his entire career.

Even with KG shooting jump shots it’s a problem for this new Cavs defense. Ben Wallace isn’t big enough, long enough or quick enough to contest KG on his jump shots.

Kevin can just see over the top of him. He can just shoot over the top of Ben Wallace all game long. Also, He can pick out the cutters and kill Cleveland with his passing. Plus he abused Wallace in the post earlier this season when Ben was in Chicago. Ben has nothing on that turnaround jumper of Kevin’s. He can’t get anywhere close to it.

Wallace doesn’t have the quickness to show on pick and rolls like he used to. There was a time when he could switch onto guards but he doesn’t have it anymore (at least not regularly, there is the odd game you see it). Then he’s too small to bother the shot when he rotates back onto KG from pick and roll.

Ben Wallace is a distinctly mediocre one-on-one defender. And KG’s athleticism shows up every single weakness Ben has as a defender. It’s a horrible matchup for Cleveland. Ben Wallace needs Rasheed to bail him out again …. Sheed is the guy that always took the best opposing big man and players who are freakishly athletic like KG. Ben can’t do that.