Daily Babble: Crediting the Points In LA

by Steve Weinman on Mar 2, 2008 11:00 PM EST in NBA Comment 9 comments

As fans around the nation are no doubt aware by now, basketball buzz is back in the City of Angels.

Well, with Kobe Bryant there, perhaps it never left. But talk of winning basketball is back in LA.

There has been plenty of chatter about the Lakers' 'big groups' -- the presently healthy big three of Bryant, Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom, the soon-to-be-healthy big four of Bryant, Gasol, Odom and Andrew Bynum -- and deservedly so. Between Gasol's established post game, Odom's freakish versatility, Bynum's continued development (which has no ceiling in sight) and Kobe being Kobe, there is legitimate reason to believe that the Lakers will threaten for the NBA title.

But while the four studs are the ones are certainly the primary reasons why the Lakers are moving back to prominence, one would be remiss to overlook the job well done thus far by the point guard tandem in La La Land -- not necessarily for being spectacular, but for perfectly fitting its role thus far.

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The individual numbers of Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmar aren't glitzy by any means. Fisher averages 11.9 points and 2.8 assists in 27.1 minutes per game, and Farmar averages 9.7 points and 2.7 assists in 20.9 minutes per game. Those numbers certainly aren't knocking anyone's socks off, and it isn't surprising that the duo often gets overlooked as a result.

But it's important to remember that Phil Jackson and the Lakers' don't run a typical offensive system. As a result of the presence of Kobe Bryant and Jackson's triangle offense, the point guard role isn't one of an every-play facilitator. Bryant often runs the offense, and his usage rate of 29.5 possessions per 40 minutes is the fourth highest in basketball. For their parts, neither Farmar nor Fisher uses so much as 20 possessions per 40 minutes, and neither ranks higher than 29th in usage rate among point guards. As a result, the lowered assist totals make some sense from that perspective.

In the Lakers' system, the point guards are responsible for controlling the ball from time to time, avoiding turnovers, doing their jobs defensively and stretching the floor for the big scorers by being able to hit outside shots. Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmar have done all of this.

Offensively, Fisher and Farmar combine between them for just 2.5 turnovers per game at the point guard position, and both have relatively low turnover ratios, with Fisher sitting at fifth among point guards through committing turnovers on just eight percent of his used possessions. Further, both have done an excellent job of serving in that stretch-the-floor role. Fisher shoots 44.2 percent from the field and over 40 percent from deep. After putting up unimpressive figures of 42.2 percent shooting from the field and 32.8 percent from behind the arc last season, Farmar has upped his accuracy to 47.8 percent from the field and 39.1 percent from outside this season, thus making him a far more valuable piece of the Lakers' offense.

Both Fisher and Farmar are better than average defenders as well. Fisher is a compactly built pest, and Farmar can use his quickness to cause all sorts of problems for opponents, particularly by jumping passing lanes (he averages one steal in those 20-plus minutes per game he plays). Both have played important roles in the ascension of the Lakers' defense to the ranking of sixth in the Association, and as a result of each other's efforts, the defense doesn't suffer with either one of them on or off the court.

Beyond all that, as was demonstrated more clearly than ever last year in Utah, Fisher is an excellent leader. He has provided a stabilizing presence in his return to Los Angeles this season. For his part, Farmar comes off the bench as the young spark plug with bursts of energy at a time. They complement each other virtually as well as could be hoped.

The Lakers' four studs have merited plenty of props for the job they have done in getting them to where they are right now. But quietly enough, their point guards have established that they are not liabilities either. And that is as important as anything as the stretch run comes upon us.

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That starting backcourt LA has is a huge advantage. All those playoff games, the understanding between each other, how well they play under pressure … brilliant. It’s going to keep LA on track in the game every playoff night, they’re the foundation that holds everything together.

Farmer has been good. He’s very important to their bench because he’s a scorer. He can create his own shot and get 6-10 quick points on the board. Without him their bench would be a little soft because nobody else will push the issue, all the other guys look for somebody else to play off (although Sasha has been better recently). Farmer is their second unit right now, slow him down and LA has problems over how long they can rest Kobe and Co.

by Who on Mar 3, 2008 12:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This might be a dumb question, but does anyone else in the league use the Triangle offense or is Phil Jackson on an island in that regard.

If it’s so successful (current LA dominance, and obviously what went down in Chi-Town), why have other teams not adopted it?

by mcpu40 on Mar 3, 2008 10:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sadly, I watch the Lakers a lot. The way to beat them is to pressure the ball defensively and stretch them out when you’re on offense. Guess which team does both of those things very well?

by The Real Large James on Mar 3, 2008 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

mcpu40,

Just wanted to let you know that I have to check a few things and do a bit more research before I give you a more definitive answer on this.

Didn’t want you to get worried that I was ignoring your question — it’s actually a very intriguing one and not dumb at all.

Hopefully, I’ll have something for you on this soon. I have a few personal theories and bits and pieces of knowledge from reading I’ve done in the past, but I’d like to ultimately have a more definitive answer.

-sw

by Steve Weinman on Mar 3, 2008 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You basically need a wing, non-PG who demands that many possessions to make the triangle worthwhile. Hint Pierce and RAllen types aren’t even close to good enough (too many TOs.)

If I remember correctly a few teams have tried it since MJ’s Chicago days, but none to great success, outside of LAL.

by Brendan on Mar 3, 2008 8:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think there’s anyone else that uses the Triangle offense this season but several others have tried it after Jackson’s success in Chicago.

Isiah Thomas did back in Indiana, but he didn’t understand it well enough so that didn’t go down well. He scrapped it soon enough. He wanted to learn it but I doubt he did since he doesn’t use it in NY.

The failures of that guy, ermm …, the Bulls coach after Phil that coached in New Orleans too, college coach. He ran the triangle through all of those losses he piled up. I think he disuaded a bunch of other coaches from using it. Tim Floyd that’s his name. Career record of .230 with 90 wins against 231 losses. I think after this that every coach felt they needed to fully master the offense before using it, Floyd was just a rubbish coach with bad teams, it had nothing to do with the offense.

I can’t think of any others. The Triangle uses similar principles to the Princeton offense which many coaches use(d). Passing, movement, don’t hold onto the ball, lot of cutting, bigs step up to pass, that type of stuff. Both based on cutting and crisp ball movement to get baskets.

Brian Shaw and Kurt Rambis are two of the top up and coming assistants in the league, they might bring Jackson’s offense with them when they get there shot. So maybe more soon. Or if somebody ever hired Scottie Pippen ……

by Who on Mar 3, 2008 10:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ah well, YouTube used to have six 5 minute clips of Phil Jackson teaching the Triangle. It was a tv special during his last tour with LA. But it’s been pulled, not on YouTube anymore. It gave a very good and fairly brief explanation of how the offense works and what value it gives. Pity.

If you want to find out about it you could probably find it elsewhere on the net.

by Who on Mar 3, 2008 10:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oh Bill Cartwright used the Triangle offense too when he was Head Coach in Chicago with the Baby Bulls (Curry/Chandler rookies, Crawford, Hassell, Jay Williams) and Jalen Rose. It worked fairly well for him.

Unfortunately the two young big men were a little too dumb and lacked way too much polish on their skills so Cartwright had to switch up the offense in some areas. Such as bringing in more screen and rolls (like Kobe and Bynum this year) to help his young bigs and Jay Williams especially be effective. Williams was used to having the ball in his hands and struggled without that at times.

But the offense gave them a solid foundation to work from which helped them stay in games and win games they probably shouldn’t have (they went 30-52 that season which was good considering their squad)

Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall had superb seasons under Cartwright That was a fun team to watch grow. Remember Eddie Robinson, their big money signing when McGrady and Co. al fell through? Commical. Marcus Fizer too. Some solid vets like Hoibery and Corie Blount. And then they let their stopper go for no reason (Hassell), bugs me to this day, and so too does everyone who says he broke out in Minny, he did the exact same work in a Bulls uniform except nobody noticed. Young big Lonnie Baxtor as well, he was a horse.

I think Bill’s an assistant for NJ now.

I liked Bill I thought he was a good head coach but he got a bad reputation for failing in Chicago (look at all that youth!). He was a bit too easy going, he’d be a lot better with a veteran team. Same complaints Mo Cheeks got while in Portland. He’d be worth another shot in the league but I’m not sure he gets it, he probably needs to be the top assistant somewhere (Brian Hill is in Jersey).

by Who on Mar 3, 2008 10:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

looks like the lakers will challenge the spurs for the west.

the result of the west will impact the celtics, in my opinion. i feel the celtics will have a better chance to beat the spurs with the even match up. surely the scores will be close and be decided by defence.

i’ll be more concern the match up against the lakers, particular who could effectively defend kobe bryant. it would be too much to ask ray allen, and tony allen will be overly matched too.

by lis on Mar 4, 2008 12:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs