The Scariest Part of Three Losses to the Hawks...
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 4:07 AM EDT
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...is the fact that the Celtics have been playing hard throughout this series -- or at least they seem to have been.
This is a league in which 'mailing it in' Is often the easiest applicable excuse. This is particularly true during the regular season, when it sometimes seems as though winning and losing is simply determined by which team shows up and which team doesn't at all. Not as much in the playoffs, but this occurs there, too.
On the surface, the mailing-it-in issue seems like a palatable problem to have because it seems to be the rather easy to solve: Play harder!
Of course, that isn't always as easily done as said, and sometimes these guys have a much more difficult time motivating themselves than that for which we give them credit. But by and large, we know that mailing it in is fixable to some extent. The 'better team' knows it has dropped a few games it shouldn't, so it stops taking them for granted and starts showing up to work, and all gets taken care of.
Indeed, the Celtics have been dominant throughout the portion of this series that has been played in Boston, so by no means are we writing any eulogies already for this team (we've got plenty of faith, too, in case the logic on its own wasn't good enough), but the concern remains: This team hasn't lost simply because it has slacked off and allowed the Hawks to take three games out of pure fortune. This series has clearly no longer been about the Celtics giving, and plenty of it has become about the Hawks taking. Whether that is fixable remains to be seen.
Read More,.All of Steve's daily posts can be found in the CelticsBlog: NBA blog. Check him out!
I haven't watched the three games in Atlanta and wondered about why this team didn't care. I haven't been wondering why Paul Pierce can't be bothered to make an effort on defense, because he has been doing just that. I haven't wondered why KG doesn't have his intensity, because he still has his intensity. Rondo is still sprinting every second. The rest of the boys have been showing up to work.
They've just been getting out-worked. And out-thought. And out-executed. And out-coached.
It doesn't appear that the Celtics aren't hustling, but it does seem that the Hawks have beaten them to all the 50-50 balls during the battles in Atlanta. It seems that -- questionable officiating notwithstanding -- the Hawks are the ones most likely to get to the foul line simply because they keep attacking the rim while the Celts keep settling or panicked jump shots. The Hawks aren't the ones who keep running out of timeouts at the ends of close games, and they aren't the ones who didn't seem to have a play ready in case Mike Bibby missed a free throw to give the Celtics a chance to tie it and send it to overtime with a trey.
No, the Celtics' three losses can't simply be written off as those of a team uninterested in actually doing the right thing. The Celtics have been interested every night in this series, and yet a team with 29 less regular season wins has beaten them in three of the six games they've played thus far. That team has played with poise down the stretch at home, and that team has run itself through a go-to scorer who couldn't see to be stopped when the game was on the line. That team has shown that -- at least for this series -- it can play with the one we love so much. Now, it sits just one road win away from taking down our Celtics.
So it isn't as simple as coming home and flipping a switch from off to on. With this team, that would have been easy.
Make no mistake: The Celts have been their season-long dominant selves at home this postseason. But the Hawks have also been the better basketball team in Atlanta. Not just the luckier team. Not the team that benefitted from the opponent not playing hard. The team that outplayed the other team and had what it took to win three games at home.
By all accounts, the Celtics should win this basketball game and move on to face LeBron and the Cavs in the semis. But the fellows in green have some legitimate basketball questions to answer between now and Sunday afternoon. And even though I have all the faith imaginable in this team, that's still the part of this that scares me.
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Just remember though…all the home games for the Celtics have been blowouts. This series has been all about the home team. I don’t see that changing. I wish it hadn’t gotten to this point though. Argh. :(
by NoraG1 on May 3, 2008 5:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well Doc certainly isn’t trying….
And Ray has had some tremendous mental lapses as well.
by Green17 on May 3, 2008 6:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
huge foul disparity in the last game
due to bad officiating or one team being soft and the other tough?
by 00dc2 on May 3, 2008 7:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ll make this point once again, Steve, because I believe it is relevant. The Celtics took the regular season very seriously throughout 82 games, as evidenced by their W-L record and margin of victory average. The team had (and has) weaknesses but great focus and energy helped them to overcome those on a nightly basis while other teams coasted from time to time.
Come the playoffs and the Celtics have no higher level to step their play up to. Their regular season qulaity of play was the highest you are going to see, whereas other teams are turning it up a notch. The reason is because this is a flawed team in terms of being championship caliber. Whether or not they take out the Hawks tomorrow doesn’t matter, I still believe as I have all year that:
a) It’s very difficult to go deep into the playoffs with a second-year point guard getting the bulk of the minutes at his position. Rondo, for all his skills and improvement, is not Chris Paul or Deron Williams, two probable future HOF points. His decision-making is becoming more suspect as this series goes on.
b) Ray Allen has lost a step and has not been his formerly reliable self all season. It is even more apparent now – on both ends of the court. If not Tony Allen, the Celtics need to find a more athletic starting two-guard and bring Ray off the bench next year.
c) Kendrick Perkins should be a back-up center. He’ll have three or four very good games in the season but is a non-factor more often than not.
d) The team’s mojo has been disrupted by the additions of Sam Cassell and PJ Brown. You saw it in Dallas with Kidd and Phoenix with Shaq (it was probably more the deletion of Marion). Things were going along nicely with Eddie House as back-up to Rondo. You can make a case that it is not the same with Sam running the offense, despite his occasional scoring bursts.
e) The Doc factor is a non-issue in my mind. You can always question strategy, especially if things don’t work out, but unless the coach is completely out to lunch he does not have a huge effect on the outcome of the games. The biggest question for a coach is whether or not his players will give 100% for him. I see no signs of anyone tuning out Doc.
In summation, win or lose, championship or early exit, it has been an enjoyable season with the renewed interest in Celtics basketball. Danny Ainge did a terrific job getting the team this far with off-season moves. Perhaps he’ll have to go back to work again in the summer months to improve the roster.
by lemonadesky on May 3, 2008 7:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the officiating is a serious problem. yes, the celtics haven’t played as well on the road, and have settled for jumpers, but they’re losing these games by just a few points. the refs are letting atlanta get away with a lot of contact and over-the-back stuff in atlanta while calling everything on boston to an inappropriate level…yes, home teams do usually get some levity, but this is ridiculous. had those calls been slightly more even, to a more normal level of the home team getting a handful more calls, this series would have been over a while back. the celtics have played mediocre in atlanta, yes, but still well enough to win. the calls have been relatively even in boston, where we win by 20 every game.
by get_banners on May 3, 2008 8:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
STOP with the POSITIVES,
Cinderella, the clock has turned to Midnight, time for the Celtics to go being the Celtics of the last 20 years and fold it up….
I’m just sick to my stop,, Is this what Champions are made of.
Poor Red is turning in his grave. I guess the Big 3 are great regular season players… but not playoff contenders……….
We just can’t finish what we started, PERIOD.
by Ancient Red on May 3, 2008 8:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we can resign Mr. 38% to spell Sam when his arm gets tired.
Only 12-14 more years of having to watch Big Al.
by Celtsfansince55 on May 3, 2008 8:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To me, the situation feels as if your girlfriend cheated on you. You still love her, but somehow, there`s something between you and her. Whenever she leaves the house, you ask yourself if she`s for real or if she does it again.
It`s probably my own fault, and maybe I was delusional, but somehow, I expected more. I expected them to be able to switch into “winning mode” through pure will. Come to think of it, the situation is probably more like a kid at christmas, who didn´t get what he was wishing for, and instead of being thankful for his present, he starts to cry.
I still hope that Daddy was just messing with me, and that he kept the real present hidden behind the couch…
by Casperian on May 3, 2008 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think a significant factor for the Celtics is their lack of playoff experience together. Can anyone think of another 50 win team where no 2 of the top 4 players had previously been teammates in a playoff game?
Most successful playoff teams have key players who have been together through the playoff trenches and experienced previous failures. This team doesn’t have the same feel for each other that comes witht that level of familiarity.
by EZ Ed Pinckney on May 3, 2008 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
After watching the games on the roads, there is no way they are trying as hard as they do at home.
On the road, there are spurts early on of what they do at home. But the killer instinct is missing. They start lapsing on defense. Then, the confidence drops and the offense breaks down.
Where is the leadership? Either on the floor or from the bench. Both have gone on vacation.
by Wide Load on May 3, 2008 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Steve said:
They’ve just been getting out-worked. And out-thought. And out-executed. And out-coached.[/quote]
I disagree Steve. Remember the discussion we had about Kobe a few months ago? I still believe that’s where the problem lies – the Celtics Big Three, espcially PP and KG just don’t posess that killer instinct that wwe both admire about Kobe. Let’s explore this some more…
In LA, Kobe steamed, complained, and publicly demanded a trade if his bosses don’t put the necessary assets around him to win. The guy just hated losing that much. Yet the talking heads and sports fans labeled Kobe a malcontent. But look at the results in LA now. On the other hand, you have KG who stayd in Minny under very undesirable circumstances and never complained. Yet he was praised as being loyal. But if the ultimate goal of a team is to win championships, then who is more loyal to that ultimate goal – is it the player who aust to losing or the player to refuses to compromise with losing?
As for the coaching, Doc has actualy done so much better than I thought. I’ve been paying extra attention to his coaching, and I believe that he is the kind of coach with that rare set of soft skills that the Phil Jacksons and Pat Rileys posses. He’s not at their level yet, but he’ll certainly get there. He’s the best weapon the Celtics have at this time, because he has the ability to motivate this team after such a depressing loss when players who’ve never been there and done that are begining to spychologically break down and pack it in.
Don’t forget that Phil Jackson and Pat Riley have themselves been struggling with losing teams thes past few years. I doubt that anyone is going to blame their coaching or strategizing as the reason for their non-performance. In LA, Jackson sems to have discovered his winning ways because he has Kobe, who ingle handedly pushed for chaneg in LA and got them to make the necessary trades to put a competetive team on the floor. Back in Miami, Pat Riley is still losing because he also doesn’t have a Kobe. Sorry, but DWade doesn’t have the killer instinct either.
Hawks aren’t the ones who keep running out of timeouts at the ends of close games, and they aren’t the ones who didn’t seem to have a play ready in case Mike Bibby missed a free throw to give the Celtics a chance to tie it and send it to overtime with a trey.That’s an unfair knock on Doc. No matter how good the coach, he has very little to do with what actually happens on the floor once the ame resumes. Had Ray made his 3 point shot, the outcome would have been different. It would have been the
Hawks who would have been forced to use their last time out. And why are you blaming the coach for the last play? The fact is there was no leadership on the floor aqt crunch time with PP having fouled out. I expect KG to carry this team, but contrary to what you said, I am not seeing KG’s intentisyt at the times that it matters. This is the ame guy who would be whowing intensity at the end of regular season games where the Cs are blowing out opponents, yet he cools off in close games during the playoffs?
I believe we need at least one player, probably PP, to take over this team and carry us on his back during crunch time. I don’t expect that to come from KG because he hasn’t shown himself to be that kindof person. Ray is a balanced player regardless of whether his shot if falling or not.
We need PP to be the team captain and leader that he could be.
PS: Don’t you wish we had traded for Kobe when we had the chance (PP/Ray for Kobe).
by The Village Idiot on May 3, 2008 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There’s nothing scary about the losses.
The Celtics are quite simply losing to a better team.
I actually will not be shocked if they lose tomorrow.
Atlanta, as I’ve posted all thru this series, has a great young team.
The Celtics, on the other hand, appear to have made a deal with the devil.
Trading away their future for a today that probably won’t happen.
It’s pretty sad, but not scary or shocking.
KG has NEVER been succesful in the playoffs, ever.
The only one on our team (I thinK) who has is Sam.
And that was a long, long time ago.
They ‘should’ win tomorrow…but they might not.
So everyone, prepare yourselves.
Celtics can equal the Patriots…
by mcpu40 on May 3, 2008 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Effort hasn’t been a problem in this series, Execution has. The Celtics are running around the court like a bunch of blithering idiots.
The execution down the stretch has been awful. Then again it’s been very poor throughout the season. Some development on it during the year would have been nice.
Some intelligence displayed by the players would be nice. Nobody can guard KG in the post, that’s your basket Kevin, go down and get the team a bucket. Five minute scoring drought in the fourth? How in the world does he not go down there and get the team a basket.
He isn’t the only one mind you. Both Ray Allen and Paul Pierce have been giving Josh Childress a free pass all series. Every baseline screen Ray runs off of has resulted in 2-4 feet of open space. Josh Childress steps back 3-4 feet on Pierce from 20 feet on every possession. They’re not punishing them at all.
Marvin Williams is another weak defender but at least he’s better than Childress. Pierce is actually doing a good job on him early in the games, but then his attacks against Marvin become sporadic as the game wears on. He has to keep going at him. Marvin can’t defend the midpost. He isn’t quick enough or strong enough to beat Pierce’s fakes and drives. Marvin has been picking up ticky tack fouls on the midpost all series long.
Bunch of blithering idiots.
There’s no earthly way this is about coaching, this is about players who cannot play with intelligence on the court under pressure. They need to get it together, they can still make a run in these playoffs but they can’t do it without improving their execution.
by Who on May 3, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Village Idiot,
Where ya been? It’s been too long but still great to hear from you…can’t believe that Kobe-for-PP/Ray discussion was so long ago already…
I think you bring up a very interesting set of points — particularly regarding a take on the Kobe matter in LA that is completely original and certainly an angle that I’d never thought of before. That said, while you know I agree with you about the value of Kobe’s borderline-sociopathic killer instinct in general, as I’ve mentioned before, my big knock on Kobe has always been the key mitigating factor here:
Worth remembering here is that even when Kobe did[/i] have the necessary assets around him to win the first few times around, he wasn’t all that far from being a malcontent. Whether or not you agree with my long-held belief that he pushed Shaq out of town (though I’ve become at least a bit more moderate on that issue), we would all be hard-pressed to say that his ‘tude wasn’t a major factor in the breakdown of the dominant early ‘00s Lakers. Now I realize that Shaq’s game has certainly atrophied in recent years, but it’s worth remembering that a) he was a very different player at that point than he is now, and b) even a somewhat reduced Shaq still had the juice in him to play a major role on a championship team two years later, and he had it in him to take the backseat to Flash in many regards. Kobe may have been interested in winning, but he was interested in winning [i]his way[/i]. I think we have to give Kobe credit for [i]changing — as I’ve detailed in past columns, my perspective on him has certainly changed over the years, but he has evolved in his own right as well. Ultimately, I think you bring up an inordinately unique perspective on his and KG’s situations, and I thank you for bringing that to the table, but I’m ready to grant Kobe complete amnesty for his actions over his tenure in LA, nor am I willing to hang KG for buying into the team concept and trying simply to do his part to do anything and everything he could to help the team win and trust his front office (and ’mates) to do the rest.
…continued…
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Regarding the coaching, I’m right with you regarding the fact that Doc has certainly exceeded my expectations. If there are any two NBA folks with whom I’ve had quite the personal odyssey over the past two years, it’s the two you’ve made most prominent in this discussion — Kobe and Doc. Since I haven’t heard from you in a while, I’m not sure how much you’ve read me lately, so forgive me if this link is redundant — it’s to a piece I wrote after Game 2 about my roller coaster ride with Doc over the last couple of seasons. I think you’ll find it interesting and would be curious to hear your thoughts: http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2928&Itemid=260
That said, I do stand by the comment that you labeled ‘unfair’ to Doc. I understand your comment about the timeout situation in that game, but my issue is more that this has become habitual for Doc. I don’t have the statistics for this — so it’s purely a feel/anecdotal comment, and if someone knows of any site with definitive proof on this one way or the other, either to support my claim or to make me look like the idiot that I am all too often — but it’s saddest to me that I really believe we’re at a point where rooting for this team means inherently accepting that the boys are virtually always going to be out of time-outs too early in last-second situations. I think Doc’s managed them poorly all year and throughout his tenure in Boston, and it isn’t the first time this team has needed to go the length of the floor without the benefit of a timeout. Have you felt otherwise throughout the season?
I didn’t suggest that the last play was wholly Doc’s fault — and I hope moreover that the piece didn’t come out as one bashing Doc above all. My intended point was that this team has been beaten in every facet, both on the floor and off, in the games in Atlanta. Personally, yes, I think that while the players are the ones who are on the floor deciding the game, it’s hard for me to imagine that there was any set that was all too brilliant in place for that final play. At the same time, you’re correct that nobody took control out there, which led to Rondo throwing up the off-balance shot at the buzzer. That’s fair, and I should have phrased it in a way to reflect that yes, this goes on both the players and the coach. But yes, the Celts had to know in the final huddle that they could be in a length-of-the-floor situation down two or down three at the end of the game, and it’s the coach’s job to make sure these guys have a set to run. It certainly didn’t look like the C’s were prepared on that play, and at least part of preparation falls on the coach.
But I certainly agree that the on-floor leadership needs to be there beyond the occasional thrown-headband technical foul.
Always a pleasure to hear from ya, Village Idiot. Looking forward to more from you on this — sorry it took me so long in the day to get back to you.
-sw
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 6:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mcpu40,
Been quite some time since I last heard from you as well…welcome back :)…but sorry to see you so down on our boys today :-\
Suggesting that Atlanta is the ‘better’ team seems like a stretch to me…certainly prior to tomorrow. They have been better than our guys three times in this series, and we’ve been better than them three times as well. A win tomorrow plus those pesky regular season records would seem to make it pretty definitive for me on the Celts’ side, so I’m not sure what you’re saying. The Hawks have played very well for three games in this series, and on those nights they were better. But how the bodies of work over the course of the year so far can get you to levy the claim that the Hawks are simply better overall, I’m not sure. But here’s hoping for a Celts win tomorrow so that we needn’t worry about the Hawks any longer.
Since you brought up the issue of Cassell and playoff success, I’ll point out that James Posey played a crucial role on the ‘06 Miami title team as well, so there’s another guy with some big-time playoff success. As for KG, it has been widely accepted so far as I can tell that this was a guy who only had one elite-level cast prior in his career, and he took that team to a number one seed and a trip to the conference finals, where the Wolves met a Lakers team with four future HOFers in its starting lineup and one that probably should have won the title with ease if not for an implosion of its own. I"m not ready to jump the boat on the ‘franchise savior’ after an odd six-game run over the last two weeks.
Ultimately, my question for you is what happens if and when this team wins tomorrow afternoon? You talk about trading away the future for a ‘today that probably won’t happen.’ In your eyes, are they destined for a loss to Bron in the second round? Or a quick exit at the hands of Detroit and Orlando? The way you phrase it, it seems like you’ve written off the possibility of this series being a blip on the radar that this team could learn from and move past if it is able to succeed tomorrow — but I don’t want to presume. What’s the longer-term outlook for you with these guys past tomorrow?
Thanks as alway for taking the time to write in.
-sw
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just remember though…all the home games for the Celtics have been blowouts. This series has been all about the home team. I don’t see that changing. I wish it hadn’t gotten to this point though. Argh. smilies/sad.gif
NoraG1,
Yep, well phrased all around — plenty of reason to be hopeful for tomorrow, but the frustration that we’re at this point is still there. I’m with ya.
-sw
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Green17,
Don’t know that I’d accuse Doc of not trying…just having trouble with tactical game management, which has always been a problem…
-sw
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lemonadesky,
Host of interesting points brought up on your part, most especially the issue of what happens when you play at max intensity for 82 games and then have ‘no place to go but down.’ Personally, I’m still a believer that it can never hurt to go full speed ahead every night — that that’s the way the game should be played — but it’s certainly an interesting angle to consider. I’ll need some more time to think on that.
As you may have noticed in previous columns of mine, Papa Weinman will be thrilled with your Perk thoughts.
I think the most interesting line of yours was the ending comment about Danny making roster adjustments in the off-season. Any ideas on that front? What do you think is feasible and necessary for this team? And how much will that be impacted by results tomorrow and possibly beyond?
-sw
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 6:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To me, the situation feels as if your girlfriend cheated on you. You still love her, but somehow, there`s something between you and her. Whenever she leaves the house, you ask yourself if she`s for real or if she does it again.
It`s probably my own fault, and maybe I was delusional, but somehow, I expected more. I expected them to be able to switch into “winning mode” through pure will. Come to think of it, the situation is probably more like a kid at christmas, who didn´t get what he was wishing for, and instead of being thankful for his present, he starts to cry.
I still hope that Daddy was just messing with me, and that he kept the real present hidden behind the couch…
Casperian,
Love the analogies — well done, and thanks for bringing a smile to my face on a morning of irritation with last night’s loss.
And since he still seems to be working on creating his user account, I’ll mention that Papa Weinman did see your birthday wishes to him on the column from a couple of days ago and thanks you for the kindness.
Always a pleasure to hear from you.
-sw
by Steve Weinman on May 3, 2008 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Steve,
The way I understand the situation is that Danny will have to pull a rabbit out of his hat to make any moves of significance in the off-season. They used up the mid-level last summer signing Posey, House, Pollard, etc. Tony Allen might have been marketable in a sign-and-trade but he’s struggled all year to find his groove pre-injury. The maddening thing is we know he is capable, and a strong wing player who is athletic is just what the C’s need. Then Ray Allen could come off the bench and feast on second-string defenders as he is clearly on the decline.
Should they lose game seven, Danny will be pressured to do something to fix things for next year. That should be more athleticism instead of veterans like PJ and Cassell. I like Leon Powe a lot but we are undersized at the center spot after Perk picks up his obligatory three fouls in eight minutes. Big Baby is not the answer, although there should be a place for him somewhere though maybe not with the Celtics. Two guys I would have loved to have on the team Danny just missed on: Amir Johnson because of a promise to Orien Greene and Andray Blatche. He needs to find a big with some length and upside like the Mavericks did with Brandon Bass.
Trading options are very slim though with T. Allen and Davis about all that would interest anyone. If the team was to pretty much stand pat next season, I’d put Tony Allen in the starting lineup and hope he finds his game. I’d also look to find a younger veteran point to replace Cassell (and House).
The C’s had better win the series, however, or some of the people on the team are going to have to answer some tough questions.
by lemonadesky on May 4, 2008 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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