Beat LA!

:)

Guys, I’ll be around here all day (when my boss isn’t looking over my shoulder wondering why no work is getting done) to answer questions and talk about the series. I think this is going to be a fun one.

Kurt,
Gasol doesn’t have the range of a Rasheed Wallace or even an on fire Big Z how is Gasol going to get any open looks besides dump offs from Kobe? I did notice that Gasol worked well on the offensive boards against SA, but the Spurs only real big man is Duncan and KG, Perk and PJ are going to beat him up. I just see Gasol (and Odom) being neutralized to such an extent that Kobe can’t do it on his own. Am I missing something?

We love Mike Rotondi and Marty, if you don’t know who they are, your team very soon will.

Kurt, I don’t think you have a good understanding of Rondo’s game, Fisher has no shot of putting on ball pressure and causing Rondo to turn the ball over. Rondo would go right past him. Rondo doesn’t turn the ball over b/c of pressure. His turnovers come from making poor decisions driving to the basket. The last time Rondo matched up against a 30 something PG was Mike Bibby and Rondo made him look very old. I would expect Fisher to look the same way if he tried to pressure Rondo. It would also be an error in stategy as he’s better off daring Rondo to shoot. I fail to see how this match up favors the Lakers and you don’t present much of an argument. Rondo does far more for his team than Fisher.

Rich, Gasol is actually able to shoot well out to about 18 feet, he just played near the basket more against the Spurs because of the focus on rebounding. He has a lot more game than Big Z, trust me. Like I said, he’s been banged on for the last two rounds and I’ll admit that has slowed him, but he still will get a double-double nightly. And, his length bothers people on defense. Really, Gasol is not a big white stiff, the more you watch him this series the more you will see his game is subtle and smart.

I’m already sick of the Lakers! Celtics need to sweep them and be done with it.

Beat LA!

Is this what we sound like? Yikes.

Jeff, the nickname “The Machine” came from the broadcasters, because when he gets it going he is a shooting machine. By the way, the thing Doug Collins kept saying about Sasha giving himself the nickname is not true — do you really think any locker room would let a role player nickname himself? Phil used to call Sasha a great 11:30 shooter who could not bring it to the game. This season that has started to change, his confidence is up. And he has become that gnat, that annoying defender that every team needs. Late in the games in this series, Radmanovic will be on the bench, Sasha will be in and on Ray (with Kobe on Pierce) and you will grow to hate him. He’s that guy you hate unless he is on your team, then you love him.

Kurt-

Thanks for comming by.

to start off I think you are understating Rondo’s impact on the series. To automatically assume Fisher will win that match-up is a mistake.

I also dont understand your overall confidence when you are facing a team with 3 teir I veteran players without a ring that have all bought into a team concept in order to win a championship. Not to mention this whole homecourt advantage thing.

I hope your whole organzation is taking this match-up as lightly as you are

Good luck

Mobanners, I played up the LA stereotype in the post but let me steal a line from JA Adande to explain LA the city: It is sort of like an iceberg. What everybody sees (the Hollywood life that Bill Simmons lives in) accounts for about 10% of the city. The rest of it is regular folks — when I go to games I sit in the seats above the luxury boxes between an auto mechanic and a Thai food cook. This is a big, complex, diverse city, with the Lakers really being one of the few true unifying factors. (And, by the way, I’m not going to slam Boston the city because my wife used to live there and it’s one of our favorite places to visit.)

Guys, I know you love Rondo, but understand that after the last three rounds and the PGs we saw, he doesn’t scare us. Maybe I’m underestimating him, but don’t make the mistake of underestimating how solid and smart Fisher is.

 Quotes from RED

     â€œMost of your great coaches do some teaching and developing of players. Phil may be able to do it, but he hasn’t shown it. His teams have been ready-made.”

      â€œPhil is obviously a good coach. You don’t win that many games without being a damn good coach, … Remember one thing: He’s been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That’s all I can say.”

‘’He wanted everybody to know that when they put on a Celtics uniform, they were part of a tradition, something that was worth working for,’’ Wayne Embry

‘’The game was my livelihood, my whole guts,’’ he said in ‘’Red Auerbach: An Autobiography,’’ written with Joe Fitzgerald. As he put it: ‘’I had to win. I wanted to be good in whatever I did. I wanted to be the very best teacher I possibly could be. I wanted to be the very best player I could possibly be. And I wanted to be the very best coach I could possibly be. Could I be a good coach and lose? To me, that’s like asking if a guy can be a good doctor even though his patients keep dying.’’

I remember in the 1985 championship, the Lakers made amends for their previous eight losses to the Celtics by defeating them in six games. After losing the first game in a rout, 148-114, dubbed the “Memorial Day massacre”, they won four out of five, including a clincher in Boston Garden, to finally end the long years of failing to defeat the Boston franchise.

The Dynasty belongs here in Boston !!!! no where else………

Red would be rolling in his grave right now if he saw these teams embracing one another…..

Sorry there is a hatred here……and it should be that way……..

Basketball is a way of life for the Celtics !!!!!

Hi Kurt,

Thanks for sharing. Let me, a loyal Celtic fan since 1966, share a few tidbits with you and your fellow Los Angeles Laker fans:

1. As of today, we are ahead, 16-9. We don’t count the 5 championships the Minneapolis Lakers won toward your total championship count. You are the Los Angeles Lakers, not the Minneapolis-Los Angeles Lakers. Let’s face it, our franchise has a stronger connection to Minnesota than yours (thank you very much, Kevin McHale).

2. We’re glad you take great stock in how we played against the Utah Jazz rather than against your own team as a benchmark. That makes alot of sense to us, Kurt.

3. Lamar Odom is an emotional thug. His thuggery against Ray Allen this season was worthy of a 5 game suspension. A zebra does not change his stripes. He will get frustrated again and act like a thug again.

4. You have to route for a team led by model citizen Kobe Bryant. We feel kind of sorry for you.

5. The phantom call against Bill Lambeer in game 6 of the 1988 finals was the single worst call to be made in NBA history, robbing the Pistons (for whom no love is lost here) of the championship that season. Make that 16-8. You have alot of catching up to do, Kurt.

6. We don’t like Jack Nicholson. He’s been mailing it in since Terms of Endearment. But we respect his loyalty to his team. On the other hand, we detest Adam Sandler (grew up in New Hampshire) and Marky Mark Wahlberg (Beantowner), two LA phonies. (We love Donnie Wahlberg, though).

7. You conveniently neglected to mention that both of our one sided victories against you this season were with Andrew Bynum in your lineup, and one was without Rajon Rondo in ours. Frankly, we have alot more respect for Bynum’s game, and how he matches up against the Celtics, than Gasol. We have not been impressed with Gasol in the play-offs. If it looks soft,and it acts soft, it is soft.

8. We are not impressed with your play-off run. The Nuggets were fading fast, and frankly the Hawks would have beaten them in 5 or 6 games. The Jazz series we give you credit, they are a good team. As for the Spurs, we manhandled them both games this season (you remember the Texas sweep last spring, don’t you?). We respect the Pistons as opponents more than the Spurs, frankly.

9. The Lakers have yet to see how effective and disruptive Rondo is. He will give your team fits. You have no one to keep up with him. He will be the talk of this series. Derek Fischer will contain him? Dream on, Kurt.

10. The Celtics gave up real value for KG (Al Jefferson and return of their 1st round pick, not to mention Ryan Gomes (starter) and Sebastian Telfair (starter)). The Lakers stole Gasol, thanks to Jerry West’s shenanigans. Where is the NBA’s investigation?

11. Celtics = Bill Russell; Lakers = Wilt Chamberlain

12. Vanessa Curry.

Enjoy the series while it lasts, Kurt. Celtics in 5.

Footey

By the way, just a little thing about why Laker fans are confident: Since the arrival of Gasol we are 35-7. That’s a 70-win season pace and this includes the playoffs, which means the opponents are better than your normal NBA schedule. He means a lot to what the Lakers do.

Good write up and welcome to Celtics Blog.

Funny how, the “superior” pg discussion favors the Lakers.

FYI…it always favors the opposing team, until you find out Rondo isn’t killing you with points but hustle ;)

I think if I can try to imprint one thing about the Lakers on you today, it is this (and I think you miss this based on your comments): This Lakers squad is a real team. They play a very team game (much as the Celtics do). The whole is much better than the sum of the parts. You guys will find out soon enough that to think Bynum was more dangerous in the triangle offense than Gasol is naive, but understand that right now this is five-man effort for the Lakers, not a one-man show. We’ll see about the PG matchup. But I just wanted to emphasize that.

Most of “the valley” is brown and downtown is black and brown. Maybe a few Chihuahuas are in that number, but who can afford a chai latte and especially implants? Maybe I have bad luck with women in Los Angeles; or maybe I spend less time on Rodeo than the other several million Los Angelinos. Los Angeles is an entirely different street landscape than the Northeastern seaboard, let alone northern California. Not only do we have two basketball teams to fawn over, many of us love futbol and spread our adoration to the Galaxy, south border teams, or across seas. Then there’s the Dodgers and Kings, college sports, and more diversity than most people will ever see. That’s not to say things are integrated (but I’ll skip the social commentary). The Lakers are my favorite team and have been since birth. This team is close to my heart because I’ve struggled through Divac, loved through the three-peat, woed over Smush and Kwame and Lindsi and Medvedenko; but now we have a team of Kobe, Fish, Odom, Sasha, Gasol, Walton, Radman, and Turiaf (I sometimes forget about Farmar, wittingly).

This team plays as a team for three quarters, and then there is the possibility that Kobe will take more than the world on his shoulders. The tantalizing aspect of this match-up is not a one-on-one spread sheet. These are two teams that cut their teeth working together; don’t mar the Laker’s and Celtic’s best qualities with simple player comparisons. There are important match-ups, surely, but there is a lot more. Gasol is a better center/utility player than Perkins; Garnett is a much better PF than Odom; Pierce will outplay Radmanovich, but not Kobe; Sasha and Fish and Walton will all rotate on the guards and SFs. Lakers have a better team offense and the Celts have a better team defense… yet neither team is a slouch on the other end. This will hopefully be the standard set for the next decade of NBA Finals. Enjoy.

Kareem,

Well said. I’d give you a tommy point, but you’d just throw it back.

Footey

Kurt, thanks for the nice article. I want to push you on the Spurs series a little bit:

(1) What is the view from Lakers fans of the Brent Barry no-call?
(2) What is the view on “the machine” shooting a 3 pointer as time expired?

From a Celtics fan’s point of view, (1) has me worried that Lakers get favorable treatment from the refs and (2) tells me “machine” is classless, but I would love to get your feedback on this.

Thanks again!

Walker Wiggle, I certainly did not mean to come off as condescending (smug I’ll own up to). Honestly, this blog and the community around it is maybe the best NBA thing going on the Web, and I was honored to allowed to hang out for a day. (I lurk here in the comments, when I have time.) I love the passion of the fan base. But I also think I root for the better team right now. We shall see.

Jeff,

The Boston Celtics is a way of life ;D Just letting Kurt know how it was and how it will be ;)

No Disrespect, just letting them know how Red would feel if here were here and alive

I do remember Gasol giving KG problems. Gasol is long and it bothers KG. The one thing KG has going for him is that 18ftr.

I am concerned about Cs bench lack of energy thou. Doc’s new rotation really changed that “advantage” into a disadvantage.

I don’t get the smug and condescending tone assertion, but to each their own. You can read anything in any tone you want really.

Honest question: The C’s are a way of life, true, but don’t Lakers’ fans think that about their team too? Isn’t it rather smug and condescending to think only the C’s are a way of life?

Kurt,

Great analysis, a little bit homer, but that is what we all are right? I see from the description of your seats that you are not far from me. Sec. 302 myself, about half way up.

Coco, did you really just tout Rondo’s hustle as an advantage over Fisher…………….hold on let me get up off the floor. Look up hustle in the dictionary. See the picture of Derek Fisher. Thanks for the laughs. I do not pretend to know who will win this match-up, but if you are looking for hustle to make the difference then I know where to place my bet.

Footey, I keep reading your comments and I can not for the life of me figure out which team you are rooting for. I will keep trying.

Funny thing is that everyone here seems to talk about the Celtics dominating all of the match-ups except Kobe. (This may be correct, but follow along). So, if KG dominates Odom, and Perkins dominates Pau, and Rondo beats Fisher, and Pierce smokes Radmanovic, how exactly are you going to slow down Kobe? Everyone keeps saying selfish Kobe will take over and fail, and you will stop everyone else. Problem is that “selfish Kobe” is the one that tries to go 1 on 3, the Kobe that takes over 1 on 1 is the one that will be getting a new ring. If you can find two more defenders that are not already occupied then you may have a point. (Refs notwithstanding)

Let me try to add a little to what Kurt said. (Not that Kurt’s analysis wasn’t spot on) The whole 2-0 record in the regular season means NOTHING. Not being a homer here, it is just true. This Laker team is COMPLETELY different. We might as well have brought in a whole new team.
I know you are all saying Gasol for Bynum is pretty much a wash so maybe the Lakers are a little bit better, big deal. Not true at all. The Lakers (starting after Gasol’s ankle injury) are playing a completely different game. The Nov. and Dec. Lakers depended one two things. Either an improving Bynum dominating the paint, or Kobe dominating the perimeter. Vujacic, Farmar, Odom, and Radmanovic were not nearly as big of a part of the offense as they are now. The “new” Lakers play a completely different game. The ball usually goes to Pau at the high post, where he can post up or make a pass. They utilize the Pick and roll and Pick an pop a lot. Fisher, and Vujacic have become much better from the perimeter and Odom has thrived in the “Marion” role as Kurt said. Kobe has become much more efficient and can pick his spots now instead of putting up 30 shots per game. I guess “efficiency” would be the summarization.

I don’t mean to sound like the Lakers are going to sweep. I fact I wouldn’t be a nickel either way who is going to win the series. I just think you are making the mistake of expecting to see the same Lakers as in Nov. and Dec. and this is just not true. We will see on Thursday and beyond.

i know they’re good and can pas and they feel like a finesse team. i would like to see perk,big baby,powe,posey,and even scal,to get physical with them. no ticky tacky fouls real ones.

Natalia, I wouldn’t pretend to say that sports in LA takes on the “way of life” passion it does in Boston (and other cities like Detroit or NY). But, as I said earlier, in a very spread out and diverse city, the Lakers are one of only a couple constants that you can talk to anyone about. I had a conversation a couple days ago with a Sushi chef whose English was very limited, but he could talk Lakers. It’s different here. But the passion and bond is real.

Kurt,
What I am saying is that Rondo isn’t the scoring type…so, you try to prevent him from scoring, then you look at the stats and realize Rondo had 10assist, 3steals, 10 rebounds. Like I said, he doesn’t kill you with points, unlike DWilliams/TParker/AI, that’s not his calling card.

Kurt, how should we stop Kobe from cheating on his wife with a 19 year old Boston girl like he did in Denver ?

Coco, maybe the trick for the Lakers is to make Rondo the shooter. Maybe that will be Phil’s plan, but I feel confident Derek can execute whatever said plan is. Maybe Rondo will blow me away, I’ve been wrong before. Just ask my wife.

I think the focus on individual players and matchups doesn’t capture the true strength and weakness of each team. Ultimately, it is not going to be Rondo’s quickness over Fisher or Kobe’s dominance over Allen that wins the series — it will be the execution of all five players as offensive and defensive units. A few playoff stats to evaluate how the teams are currently playing:

1. Boston’s offensive efficiency: 105.2 (against teams that averaged 103.2 in defensive efficiency in the season).
2. Boston’s defensive efficiency: 99.4 (opponents averaged 105.4 offensive efficiency).
3. LA’s offensive efficiency: 109.0 (opponents averaged 102.2 defensive efficiency).
4. LA’s defensive efficiency: 103.1 (opponents averaged 107.7 offensive efficiency).
5. LA is 12-3 against teams with a 6.4 point differential that averaged 53 wins.
6. Boston is 12-8 with a 4.3 point differential against teams that averaged 47 wins.

Take home thoughts: As a team, LA is playing better right now. Collectively, their playoff opponents have had both far better offenses and defenses, but LA has still produced a much higher net efficiency than Boston. In other words, LA won by wider margins against better teams. And, LA’s offense has been better than Boston’s and LA’s defense has been better than Boston’s offense. This is why LA is heavy favorites in Vegas — not because of what we expect in individual matchups. LA is just executing better team basketball right now.

Of course, that is all very likely to change. LA has never opened on the road and fallen behind in a series. Its young players have never been in the finals and several of them have already shown they are vulnerable to pressure (see Farmar). But on paper, LA is coming in with all the momentum.

Sorry Jeff, but those were serious charges and should not be forgotten.

Kurt, thanks for the post…and a lot of us like Jack (we especially enjoyed the fact that he had to come to Boston and co-star with two guys from here, to have his biggest hit in years and years) Kobe is the best player on the planet, however basketball is a team game…and defense win trophys…with that being said it should be a fun series…let’s agree on one thing, the players not the refs should decide the championship !

Champzilla, if Kobe’s charges were so serious, why are you making a joke out of it?

Hey Kurt,

Want to know somethng strange? We were 35-7 at one point too, with KG being hurt. (Plus 28-3 at one point, beter than 72 wins) Thats why we play the games.

I’m visiting from FB&G and wanted to say good luck and good health in the Finals.

I see there’s a lot of debate about the Fisher/Rondo matchup. Obviously this is an important one and I’d just like to share a couple of thoughts. First off, I think Rondo’s a great young player with a promising future. He plays hard and plays an all around game. He’s a terror on defense and finds ways to contribute even when his offense is not there. But when talking about his matchup with Fisher, I think we need to realize that Fisher is not a classic PG and is not playing a role on offense that Rondo is used to defending. Fisher will bring the ball up, but maybe about half the time, so I don’t expect Rondo’s on ball pressure to be too much of a disruptive force. Also, Fisher is not a primary offensive weapon (like Bibby or Billups) so Rondo’s off ball awareness is going to have to be sharp this series. He can’t get caught up roaming on defense or the ball will find Fisher for an open shot (and Fisher will make open shots). As for Fisher defending Rondo, I think Kurt makes a good point about the caliber of PG that the Lakers have faced so far…Parker, Williams, Iverson…these are outstanding players. But, one of the key ways that the Lakers were able to defend these guys (especially Parker and Williams) was to funnel them to areas of the court where they are least effective or at least funnel them to areas where they could be defended more easily. The Celtics and Rondo can expect the same in this matchup. Also, while Fisher may not be as quick as he once was, what he is great at is playing angles. Rondo has the ability to beat Fisher off the dribble, but Fisher will try to take angles away from Rondo in order to force him to where he wants him to go so the Lakers can execute their defensive strategy as a team. Fisher will not be left alone on an island to match quickness with Rondo. If anything Fisher will be given a blueprint by the staff on where to force Rondo on the court in order to make him least effective.

I think this is going to be a great chess match with how the Lakers handle Rondo, but I like our staff to come up with a plan to limit his effectiveness.

Reed are you a lakers fan ?

Yes, I’m also paying a visit from Kurt’s site, seeking rational argument.

Unless LA finds a way to go up 3-1 (very unlikely), the 2-3-2 format is going to work against them. LA has proven that it can do a few things in these playoffs: (1) hold serve at home, and (2) put away a team on the road that is desperate for a win (see Utah game 6 and San Antonio game 4). So, LA has shown that when they are ahead, they have the killer instinct to win in hostile conditions. But they’ve never shown how they will react when down in a series — especially when down and on the road. I think that tends to completely change the pressure dynamic. If Boston can go up 3-2 or force a game 7, LA will be forced to play an elimination game for the first time — and on the road. They also have no chance of putting away the series at home (it’s going at least 6 games). I think these are decided advantages for Boston. I’d much prefer a 2-2-1-1-1 format.

I can’t tell who is a celtic fan and who is a lakers fan anymore. Desus32: “I think this is going to be a great chess match with how the Lakers handle Rondo, but I like our staff to come up with a plan to limit his effectiveness.” Do you mean “our staff” = Celtic staff or laker staff ?

It’s not that complicated. Defense wins championships these days. After 3 straight tough series, the C’s offense will have a new lease on life against the Lakers. C’s in 5.

Scal replaces Allen for the last 2 games of the Detroit series—and we win both games. It’s the intangibles, people, the intangibles.

Forget about the MJ and Kobe comparisons. I’ve seen both of them play and Kobe ain’t no MJ.

Sorry about that. I am a Lakers fan, and when I said “our staff” I did mean the Lakers staff. I’ll be more clear in the future…

Nobody but the most delusional of Lakers fans thinks Kobe is as good as MJ. He’s shown flashes, he’s closer than he ever was, but MJ did it at that level for a decade.

I also think it is a little more complex than “defense wins championships.” I will say in the regular season your energy on the defensive end was way more intense than we had seen and it caught us by surprise. That will not be the case in the finals, we’ve played the last two rounds against energetic contenders. To win this the Celts are going to have to do more than they have in any series so far, they are going to have to play outside their comfort zones.

Jeff,

I am here too, are you going to answer my question from Forum, Blue and Gold? I saw your response, but it had very little/nothing to do with my question.

Kurt. How do you feel about the Gasol trade vs the KG trade. If I can speak for all Celtics fans. We feel we gave up some very good assets(especially Big Al and Minny’s pick that we owned) and the lakers gave up nothing. Please at least tell me Crittendon is going to be an All Star.

My biggest problem with this whole Derek Fisher/Rajon Rondo argument is the fact that not one Celtic fan has brought up the fact that Fisher is a dirty player. He doesn’t get called out on it as much as other players (Ginobili, Varejao, etc.) but he may be the biggest flopper in the game. I think of all the players the Lakers have he is my least favorite. I really have no respect for his game, if I could have any less than that I would.

As for the rest of the team I feel like there are definitely going to be problems on both sides. Kurt is right, the Lakers have been playing like a team since Gasol got there. But, on the other hand the Celtics have been doing that the whole season, I don’t really give them an advantage in the “chemistry” category. Lamar has been playing out of his mind lately. This 3rd option thing has really put his play on another level. He is dishing the ball, making big plays off the ball and cutting to the hoop very well. He is going to be a tough matchup, but then of course, KG is the DPOTY, which will help big time against him, unless Gasol eats Perk up.

I think Powe will have a bigger role in this series as well. Bringing him in for 3-5 minutes here and there to terrorize Gasol will help a lot. I’m not saying he is going to shut him down because clearly Gasol is the superior player in that matchup, but I can see Powe getting physical with him, up in his face and driving him away from the basket where Gasol is most effective. But, like I said, Powe’s not going to have much more of an impact than a 3-5 minute presence.

My last point is about the bench. Granted I’m not all that familiar with their’s except Farmar and Vujacic (who I also dislike because of the reasons Kurt brought up before) but is Turiaf/Walton/farmar/vujacic really all that much better than house/posey/powe/brown? From what I’ve seen, not really.

I didn’t really get to all the things I like about the Lakers that scare me (Kobe’s defense on Allen being number 1) but those are the things I wanted to get off my chest.

“By the way, just a little thing about why Laker fans are confident: Since the arrival of Gasol we are 35-7. That?s a 70-win season pace and this includes the playoffs, which means the opponents are better than your normal NBA schedule[/u]. He means a lot to what the Lakers do.”

Excellent point, Kurt[u]

If you could go back in time, would you make the Ray Allen trade again? Do you wish you traded for another “star” with the pick? Was anyone else reasonably available (Kidd, Redd, Gasol, Artest) that would have ultimately been better? Do you wish you had just kept the pick? I know the trade was critical to getting Garnett to change his mind and come, and you can’t argue with where you are now, but I’m just wondering if you feel you gave too much for Allen.

I think PG argument is simple. What the Lakers get from Fisher, we can get from House. As long as Rondo is disrupting things defensively, penetrating, rebounding and feeding the beasts in the post, it’s not close. Rondo House > Fisher Farmar.

CoachCowens (great ID, by the way), I’ll freely admit we stole Gasol. You guys gave up a lot more than we did by miles (as a birthday gift last season my wife got me great seats to Lakers/Celtics, so I watched Jefferson up close and coveted him).

There was a debate in Lakerland if we should have given up Farmar or Crittenton in that deal (I would have given up either or both). Crittenton has a world of potential and a much higher ceiling than Farmar, but having seen Jordan (he went to high school and college in SoCal) we know that he has a great work ethic and a great basketball IQ. He is going to be solid. Crit could grow into something better in this league, although I’m not sure he’s a Williams/Paul/Parker kind of guy. It really depends on his work ethic and how he develops. Fans loved him. I hope they clear up the PG logjam in Memphis or he gets moved somewhere so he can get a chance.

Just curious….why does Ray Allen always seems to have a bad taste in his mouth?

Ray Allen got us KG, so yes I would trade for Allen.

We didnt give up that much for him, Wally didnt do anything when he was with us, West was good but rondo was going to start this season regardless.

Derek Fisher is one of the most undervalued players in the league. His value to the Lakers is simply phenomenal. His partnership in the backcourt along with Kobe Bryant gives the Lakers the single most experienced backcourt in all of basketball. They’re the guiding hand of the Lakers, they ensure the Lakers keep doing what they’re meant to be doing. That’s why the Lakers have the best offensive execution in the league. On defense they’re the frontline. The Lakers best defensive quality is their perimeter D and it’s these two that start at all that off. The set the tone every night. The aggressiveness, the confidence in both the team’s talent and in the way they’re trying to achieve success.

That’s championship experience at it’s best. That leadership is incredible, and beautiful to see.

…………..

As for Rondo – He’s got a wider range of skills and can impact the game in more ways. He’s also more dynamic and more capable of taking over in a game. Unfortunately he’s still inconsistent and his inconsistency offensively usually bleeds into the rest of the team.

Rondo on his best day wins this matchup but it’s a question of how many great days does he have in this series?

“Rondo on his best day wins this matchup but it’s a question of how many great days does he have in this series?” – I think this sums up the Rondo-Fisher matchup best. Is Rondo going to bring it on every single play for the whole series? Because Derek Fisher will.
-The Lakers just went through Iverson, D-Williams, and Tony Parker to get to the Finals. I don’t think Rajon Rondo is too much of a concern.
-Ray Allen is not an all-star anymore. He is one-dimensional now. We will have Sasha or VladRad sticking on Allen like glue so that he doesn’t get any open looks. What does he do then?
-Pierce will have a good series. He always plays us well in LA and I expect big numbers from him. I think he will go off on anybody we put on him besides Kobe.
-Garnett is Garnett. He is going to get at least 20 and 10. He is going to bring it on every play. I love the guy’s intensity. But the fact is this, he is not good in the last 6 minutes of the game. His unselfish nature causes him to “make the right play” as you Celtics fans put it and pass to the open man. Sometimes the right play is for the superstar to take over down the stretch of a close game and earn his paycheck.
-Perkins played us very well this year. He dominated Bynum in the first game, largely due to the fact that he was able to muscle Bynum out of his favorite positions. I think Pau will go big on Perkins because Pau has much more basketball IQ than Bynum.
-The only person I am worried about on your bench is Posey. He is going to play very hard defense on Kobe. Posey is a great guy to have on your bench. But other than him, who else is going to hurt us? Maybe PJ Brown will give a couple solid minutes, but Doc has killed the confidence of House too much by juggling his minutes with Cassell.
-And Finally, Phil is going teach Doc what coaching is all about. Doc made a comment in his postgame press conference after game 6 in Detroit that he only ran 1 play down the stretch. Try that against Phil in the playoffs and bad things are going to happen.
-Lakers in 5

Gasol started playing for the Lakers on February 5th and the Lakers since then have been 38-12 including the playoffs. Kurt, you said they were 35-7 since Pau came to the Lakers. 38-12 equates to a 62 win season. That is nice and all, but a far cry from a 70 win season.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

Go Celtics!!!

As for Ray Allen … brilliant trade. One of the most one-sided trades in recent years. The Gasol trade was ridiculous, it can’t compare but Ray’s trade in it’s own right was up there.

The C’s gave up so little for him. Delonte West isn’t much of a player. Wally isn’t much of a player. The only piece of the deal that had value for Seattle was the draft pick. The No.5 pick was in a Top Four pick draft, great stuff, must be a good pick. It had pretty much the same value as a pick down at 12-15 (Thaddeus Young, Julian Wright, Al Thornton, Rodney Stuckey). That was the reason Boston was so quick to try and shift it. Heck while we’re on Wally, he wasn’t even an expiring contract unlike a Kwame Brown (also why the pick was needed), he had two years left on his contract and was making more money than Kwame. Delonte was the third best PG on a team that had no starting quality lead guard, neither was he good enough to start at shooting guard on a team that had no shooting guards (Durant isn’t a SG).

That’s the cost of a perennial all-star two guard coming off his best season as a pro?

Seattle throw in Glen Davis for good measure too just in case Boston weren’t getting a good deal. Excellent trade. Very happy with the deal.

Gasol started playing for the Lakers on February 5th and the Lakers since then have been 38-12 including the playoffs. Kurt, you said they were 35-7 since Pau came to the Lakers. 38-12 equates to a 62 win season. That is nice and all, but a far cry from a 70 win season.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

Gasol was injured for part of that stretch. He played 27 games with the Lakers, they won 23 of them for an 88% success rate. In the playoffs the Lakers played 15 games, winning 12 of them. That brings us to 35 and 7 and an 83% win rate, which goes to Kurt’s link to 68 wins.

That team is going to be pretty good when Bynum gets healthy for next season.

-Ray Allen is not an all-star anymore. He is one-dimensional now. We will have Sasha or VladRad sticking on Allen like glue so that he doesn’t get any open looks. What does he do then?

Ray Allen is still an all-star and he’s not one-dimensional. Don’t confuse the sacrifices he’s made for the team or the shooting slump he’s suffered with Ray suddenly being incapable of lifting his team. He’s still the same player he was last season. His athleticism is fine, his skills are still there. He’s just less involved in the offense and a more reliant on his teammates service as a result of that.

For the record I think if LA put Radmanovic on Ray they’re crazy. You never give a top player a former teammate to work on, a mismatch and a below average defender at that, someone who Ray has played against a thousand times in practice over his four years in Seattle. They got a word for that, it’s called suicide.

Sasha should be able to play good defense on Ray and bother him. Vujacic is a good pressure defender and will be able to take away Ray’s handle to keep him out on the perimeter as much as possible. But if Ray is already hot there’s little Sasha will be able to do ….

Which brings us to Kobe Bryant. His defensive discpline has weak lately. He’s gambling on everything and young Ronnie Brewer of Utah made him pay several times every night. Now replace with Ronnie with one of the purest shooters in the game. You don’t give Ray Allen open looks, that’s what Detroit did and it helped get Ray out of his slump. Ray was in his own head before Detroit did that. Kobe has to be far more discplined otherwise it won’t matter that Sasha should be able to defend Ray Allen.

Who, for the Lakers (according to notes out of practice) the Laker matchups will be Fisher/Rondo, Allen/Kobe, Radmanovic/Pierce, Gasol/KG, Perkins/Odom. I thought you guys would salivate on that last one. KG will get his against Gasol, but like with Duncan Pau’s length should lower his shooting percentage. Also, like we said, expect to see a lot of Sasha on Ray and Kobe on Pierce as the game wears on.

Who-
 The ex-teammates thing can be a double-edged sword. Yes, Allen probably killed Vlad a million times in practice in Seattle, but Vlad probably knows all of Rays go-to moves now. Look at our series against Utah as an example. D-Fish was in Utah last year practicing against D-Will everyday. When we were playing Utah in the second round, Fish knew everything D-Will was going to do before he did it. Williams favorite play is a step-back to the left jumper. Everytime he tried it, Fish would be sitting on his left side waiting for it, and Fish actually stuffed his jumpers a couple of times… So your argument could go either way.

Besides, over the last few weeks, our crunch time lineup has been Fish, Sasha, Kobe, Odom and Pau. In this case, Sasha will be on Ray and Kobe will be on Pierce in crunch time. Kobe and Pierce will go at it hard, they always have. And between Sasha and Ray, don’t underestimate the defensive “annoyance” that Sasha can bring. Ray will probably get his share of 3s, but he will want to punch Sasha in the mouth by the time this series is over.

It is going to be an epic series.

It can be a double edged sword but I have a real hard time believing Radmanovic will have that on Ray. Fisher on the other hand is a solid defender and is the exact type of defender that Deron has most difficulty with. Ray on the other hand can attack Radmanovic’s weaknesses in so many different ways … I just can’t see any way the Lakers end up on a good side in that situation.

Radmanovic on Ray is like Pierce getting Delonte West or Wally Szczerbiak on a switch against Cleveland. Good things don’t occur for the opposition when that happens.

Another I’d add to why I Fisher versus Deron and Rad versus Ray is different is overall intelligence as player. Fisher is as intelligent as they come. Radmanovic isn’t. He could do just about anything on any given day.

If he was intelligent player he would have figured out by now how a player of skill level can truly effect a game. Look at his ex-teammate Rashard Lewis and Radmanovic, how different are their skill sets? Radmanovic has a similar post game, similar midrange game, similar outside shot, is better at putting the ball on the floor. Similar on the boards, similar defensively. Yet he never puts it all together. He showed flashes back in Seattle of becoming a quality player but never did manage to focus well enough to get it done. Just look at the results, look at how effectively Rashard Lewis uses his advantages versus Radmanovic.

On the other hand … Radmanovic’s counterpart in this scenario, Ray Allen, is tremendously smart, a wily old veteran who’ll pick apart Radmanovic’s defensive flaws.

Celtics fans, thanks for a fun day, fun conversation and letting me hang around and talk finals. I’m off for the night but will check back in during the finals.

And I’ll leave you with some positive mojo for the Celtics. I’m going to miss a chunk of these finals as my third daughter is being born any day now. Why is that good news? Well, the first two also were born during the NBA playoffs. The first was during the 2004 NBA finals when the Pistons surprised Lakers fans with a win. Then two years ago, the second child was during the first-round series against the Suns — the Lakers were up 3-1 in that series when we went into the hospital and the Lakers still lost it. Me having another kid in during the playoffs is the best hope I can give you.

Berkcelt, the refs let Utah and San Antonio get away with a lot too.

Hello folks. Visiting here from Forum Blue and Gold as well. A few comments if I may?

- I don’t think the general consensus is necessarily that Fisher will “win” the matchup against Rondo. As fans from both sides have noted, this series features two teams that thrive on their abilities to play as a team (the Lakers on the offensive end and Boston on the defensive end, particularly). Because of that, looking to claim that any one-on-one matchup is a “win” or “loss” rarely tells the true story. However, why Lakers fans are pleased is because Rondo just isn’t the same caliber of player as the three LA has faced to date in the playoffs – to claim otherwise would reek of homerism, I would think. Fisher will have a greater chance to be ‘opportunistic’ on the defensive end than he has during the playoffs – which will be necessary, given Boston’s other great options in Pierce, Garnett, and Allen (not to discount Perkins, but most of his opportunities are created by the other players on the floor). Rondo has a great future, but – Allen Iverson, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo… One of these things is not like the others, despite all the great things Rondo does do.

- This will also be LA’s best opportunity for its ‘bench mob’ to have some success offensively. Boston’s transition D is quite good, but as a team they don’t have the same overall speed on the floor that the Lakers will be able to run with when using a lineup of Farmar, Vujacic, Walton, Odom, and Turiaf. I fully expect the Celtics to be able to score almost at will against this group for the most part, but considering it should be largely bench vs bench, expect the Lakers to have some success in stretches. And in case you’re curious, yes, Vujacic’s 3 at the end of the series was classless, and I was very upset to see him take it. I’ve heard arguments that it was the sort of move to give him confidence going into the Finals, but to me that doesn’t fly. It was unnecessary, but shouldn’t reflect on the Lakers as a whole. Sasha is, much like Kendrick Perkins, a guy that doesn’t star, but will do things that annoy the opposition to no end – every great team seems to have at least one.

- Don’t read too much into it when Lakers fans reference the Jazz. It’s not as if we’re saying, “look, they beat you so we will too lol.” It’s more along the lines of pointing out that:
a) the offense that will be used in this series is unlike the one the team used during the regular season;
b) it’s not dissimilar from what the Jazz tended to run;
c) it suggests that the Lakers will be able to have some success on that end of the floor – the personnel is different and the scheme isn’t the same, but the principles are similar and they were fairly effective.
Basically, I don’t expect the Lakers to be running up points like the did against the Nuggets. But I would be very surprised to see LA’s offense get totally shut down, partially due to the fact that similar offensive teams have also had success.

- I really think the Lakers will struggle to contain Pierce – they won’t want to use Kobe on him too much (both to avoid tiring him out, and to avoid his getting into foul trouble). However, Vlad Radmanovich has been playing reasonably well on defense during the playoffs, and should be able to use his length to trouble Pierce periodically. The key will be how Pierce attacks. If he’s driving, VladRad will get destroyed – he can’t stay with The MFing Truth. But if he’s settling for jump shots, which he (and the Cs as a whole) seem to do at times, Radman should be able to at least contest somewhat. Now, when Pierce is on, there’s not a whole lot Vlad will be able to do – there’s not a whole lot anybody can do, just ask LeBron. But if he starts off cold, it might cause him some difficulty in getting going.

Anyway guys, good luck in the Finals (well, not TOO much luck, hopefully). I know a lot of you seem to think the Celtics will cakewalk over the Lakers, but I anticipate a great, tough series with some close matches and awesome late-game theatrics. Should be fun!

KG-Gasol is the interesting matchup

KG’s best strength against Gasol in the past has been quickness. He’s consistently been able to beat Gasol on the drive. He’ll still be able to do that but he does it less in Boston than he did back in Minnesota (I think mainly because of his declining athleticism, but his athleticism is still pretty incredible).

I thought the Lakers should try Gasol on KG for two reasons

(1) KG had Josh Smith (6-9), Ben Wallace (6-9), Antonio McDyess (6-9) on him the previous three rounds. He was able to shoot over the top of those guys at will. His jump shot was hardly contested by Wallace or McDyess, neither guy was tall enough, long enough or could jump high enough to bother KG’s release. McDyess nor Wallace could get anywhere near it, KG had a good look at the rim every time. Gasol will be able to at least get a hand in his face. Gasol on the other hand is 7-1 with a 7-5 wingspan. It’ll be a bit more difficult for Kevin which is something LA should like. Now it’s just a question of whether or not that matters more than Kevin’s dribble drive. It also opened up KG’s turnaround jump shot out of the post.

(2) Lamar Odom played very smart help defense in the last round. I think he’s a better help defender, his responses are far quicker and he’s better at reading the game. Quick jumper and has a quick second jump too when he’s bouncing around the paint. Odom’s size is a nice advantage to have on double teams. I expect we’ll see Odom and Fisher alternate as the help defender based on where the ball/their man are.

If it doesn’t work the Lakers can always go back to Odom-KG and Gasol-Perk but it’s worth trying just to see how Kevin reacts.

I’m trying to figure out why Celtic fans are claiming Ray Allen to be a future Hall of Famer. Doesn’t a Hall of Famer have to be one of the 15 best players in the league at some point in his career? Wouldn’t you think that being a Hall of Famer should include their having the sustained excellence to be say, the top 3 or 4 players at his position for at least 3 or 4 seasons? Other then donning a Celtics jersey, when did Ray Allen do anything to qualify himself for the Hall of Fame? I bet you would easily pick 5-6 SGs who were better or as good as Ray Allen in every year he has been in the league.

Re:Gasol, you will all see it pretty soon, Gasol can handle the Celtics, so called, physicality. Utah is certainly in the Celtics league regarding physical basketball. The Spurs are in the Celtics league in terms of system defense. Gasol gave the Lakers what they needed in each of those series. We’ll see how Perkins and Garnett deal with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc_JQhXP8Do
Oh, but I guess that doesn’t count seeing that this was from a few seasons ago, sort of like those Celtics wins against the Lakers were from when the Celtics looked dominant and the Lakers were still getting it together.

We are fans of the franchise, the Lakers. I didn’t see any other team wearing Minneapolis throwback jerseys. The pedigree goes thus, Miken, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Bynum. I understand that some Celtics fans feel threatened by PJ taking over the championship coach’s lead from Red and that the Lakers are within a dynasty from taking the overall franchise championship total. I understand that some people’s logic works backwards from, this is the team I love to they must be the best. Your team plays very good defense. They have some nice players who can swing a series. We’ll play this series to figure out who’ll be champs this year. It’s been fun having our tussles with the Trailblazers, the Bulls, the Kings, the Spurs, and the Detroits of the world. Now that you guys are back, I have to admit, you have been missed. I hate the Celtics, their players, their fans, their city, their cops, their skyline, their beer, their Universities, their communist professors, their weather, the color green and everything that Tommy the Homer stands for. I’m not quite sure how anybody who only watches Celtics games could have anything insightful to say about the Celtics after listening to Tommy Homer on the telecast. Chick Hearns makes more sense today then Tommy ever has and he can still call a game better (better being with more poetry, greater insight and with objectivity). I hate the Celtics in the deepest darkest most purple and gold filled depth of my soul.

Lakers in 6. See you next Dynasty.

As a Lakers fan, I think the Celtics are easily the best team that the Lakers’ have faced in the playoffs. They have the best defense and 2 (KG and Pierce) of the best 4-5 (Duncan, Deron, AI, Melo) players that we’ve seen. I mean, we are in the Finals and facing the team that had 66 wins and is the overall #1 seed, so…anyways.

I do think though, that some Celtics fans are severely underrating the players that make up the Lakers team. For example, RadMan is not some turnstile on defense…he held his own against Melo (37% shooting for the series) and helped control (albeit a not quite himself) Ginobili. He also provides excellent spacing on offense and is a guy that has an underrated offensive game. He has really diversified his attack and has gotten into the lane more with pump fakes and then driving the ball as well as by back cutting in the triangle and finishing at the rim. I’m not calling him a world beater, and he only plays about half the game (first guy subbed out) but he is quite useful and not some tool out there.

Goldifox, that’s a rather odd statement to make.

Out of current active players, basketball-reference.com has Ray Allen as the 12th most likely to make it to the Hall of Fame(82% probability), immediately behind Paul Pierce. 8x All-Star, and is a top-35 player all-time in points-per-game. He’s one of the best 3-point shooters in history (career 40%), and is 2nd all-time in made 3s.

Goldifox why are you trashing the celtics on a celtics blog website ?

Reed,

I live here in Vegas and the Lakers opened up at -180 to win the series. I wouldn’t call 64.29% probability a heavy favorite.
The Cali cost of living even drives up the price of betting on your home team.

That’s Entertainment. Great writing everyone. I love the passion, and the ability to express it so well.

@Champzilla
I’m not trashing the Celtics. I am expressing opinions with a little Celtic hatred thrown in. Look, your franchise is the only one with any possible claim to being more dominant then the Lakers. You all have the championship count on us, so fair enough. The fact that certain Celtics fans on this site made this comment,

“As of today, we are ahead, 16-9. We don’t count the 5 championships the Minneapolis Lakers won toward your total championship count. You are the Los Angeles Lakers, not the Minneapolis-Los Angeles Lakers. Let’s face it, our franchise has a stronger connection to Minnesota than yours (thank you very much, Kevin McHale)”

So, I responded to his inability to give credit where it is due. The Lakers have 14 championships to your 16. Any other argument is pure twisted logic.

@underbruin, whatever basketball reference has to say, in every year that Ray Allen played n the NBA there are at least 3 players you would rather have at his position and a few more you could argue to be his equal, depending on need. I don’t think that in a sport such as basketball that specialists belong in the Hall.

I’m back and I have two quick questions for Celtics fans:

1) You guys clearly don’t like what Delonte West did as a Celtics, but I thought the Cleveland offense looked quicker and better when he was out on the floor for them. Is this a case of him getting better or just everyone else there being so bad my eyes tricked me?

2) Any thoughts on Flip being out in Detroit? You saw a lot more of them than I did this year and followed that last series more closely.

Delonte is a player of much disagreement from Celtics fans. Some felt he was a backup point guard, others felt he was more. I think just about every Celtics fan would agree that he’s a good fit for the Cavs next to LeBron though.

Very few ballhandling responsiblities (only has a left hand). LeBron does all the hard point guard related stuff anyway so there’s very few playmaking responsibilities and Delonte. Thanks to Mike Brown there’s not much of an offense to run. Just get Bron the ball and move out of the way. His role as a point guard is very limited which is a good thing considering his talent. Offensively for the Cavs, Delonte just has to be able to make shots which he’s good at. I don’t really rate his defense much either, below average.

I think Cleveland could do a lot better. I still don’t consider him a starting point guard. They already have a better backup point guard in Gibson. They should make a run at a Louis Williams (restricted) or Jannero Pargo (player option) instead of spending free agent money on Delonte.

Thanks Who. I will say everyone is generally higher an Pargo than I am. Part of that is a bias from watching his rookie year (and the first part of his second year) as a Laker. He has improved a lot since that day, but having watched him this year I still think West and his left hand are better. I like Williams a lot more, that is a good call, but Philly would be silly to let him get away. Not that Larry Brown will ever play him……

As for Flip … I thought it was a good decision. He consistently limited his players and failed in the playoffs.

I wouldn’t blame Flip for this season’s failure though, that was on the players side, they simply weren’t good enough to beat the Celtics.

Last year against the Cavs was awful and the year before against Miami (he ran isolation plays for Tony Delk in the fourth quarter of the Conference Finals, by the way Tony hasn’t played in the NBA since) wasn’t much better. The way he has the Pistons playing, they’re always going up against a stacked deck.

I had no confidence in the man doing any better in the future, that’s why I like the decision for Detroit.

I liked Flip back in Minnesota and thought he was a good hire for the Pistons at the time. I’m not completely sure if it’s that he was out of his depth or that the Pistons team just didn’t suit his coaching style of if it was both. Either way, he had to go.

A coaching change won’t be enough to turn around the Pistons. Detroit have to change up their core to contend for a title next year. If they don’t they can/will repeat their regular season wins and playoffs failures again. Lot of pressure on Joe D to pull some something out of his magic box.

you said it hasnt been the same not playing the celtics in the finals… i guess the main difference is that the lakers win

I think that the bench will be the deciding factor in this series. I have not seen many of the Celtics bench players extensively, but the fact that many fans are commenting on how effective House (1.2 ppg in playoffs) will be, is enough for me to think that the Lakers have a considerable advantage. Most consider the Lakers bench the best in the NBA and I agree.

These are my thoughts about the point guard match up: Celtics fans will soon find out that Fisher/Machine/Farmar will severely outplay Rondo/Cassell/House.

The Lakers trio are all excellent 3 point shooters and not afraid to take it to the rack. Rondo is the best player out of those 6, but his backups are just not going to make much of an impact, as the Lakers back ups are capable of doing.

Despite his excellent quickness, I don’t give Rondo the respect that C fans do, because I can only look at the numbers and see that he shot horribly in the Detroit series. Fisher is an excellent shooter, as you will see after he rainbows in his first couple of threes in Beantown.

Should be a great series and I look forward to seeing Kobe crush KG’s dreams once again, while Phil passes Red. ;D

I appreciate the good-natured rundown. And I appreciate someone who can bleed gold & purple, but still have a sense of humor about things. Best of luck to your team.