More Maggette vs. Posey Rumors

Signing 31-year old Posey to the full MLE for 5 years is a cap killer. Signing Maggette, on the other hand, isn’t. Sure, Posey is very useful, but I don’t want him eating 6 million cap space at 36.

That sure explains why the C’s were so eager to feed the Herald the story that they hadn’t offered a contract to Maggette—and yet the Globe (Marc Spears), rather than feeling the need to retract their original report have repeated it daily.

Also give you some insight into when Danny says repeatedly and publicly that Posey is so far and away their first order of business.

Probably also explains why Posey’s agent also kept Giddens out of the mini-camp, since he was assuredly trying to squeeze a better offer out of Danny sooner.

I seriously doubt Giddens has anything to do with this scenario at all.

That said, this is a risky scenario for Ainge. If Maggette chooses Golden State OR San Antonio AND we lose Posey, there really aren’t good options in free agency. Plus, we lack the contracts to trade.

Just backtrack over the last 20 years of Celtics history to see what happens when they overpay for role players. I’m a huge Posey fan, but they also need to avoid a trip to the netherworld of cap inflexibility. I’m starting to think Magette may actually make more long term sense because he could eventually step into Ray’s role as cornerstone offensive threat.

I totally agree. Posey is a nice player but he’s not worth the full MLE, not even close. Magette however is worth that kind of money. If the Cs offered Posey 12 million over three years, that’s about right. They can get close to that kind of production with any one of those free agent swingmen — guys like Kirk Snyder, Barnes, James Jones, Pietrus, they can approximate what Posey gave us. And the Cs can use the leftover money to beef up the rest of the roster.

Just think about it in terms of what the Pats would do. Would Belichick pay Posey the full MLE? No way.

I think 4 years for Posey at full MLE is too much but if you want him for 3 years just amortize the 4th year over the first 3. Thus Posey would cost $7.6 mil/year for 3 years? I like him but I wouldn’t do that since we still need other players. AND 5 years is a mistake Danny should let someone else make. I agree that Maggette’s younger age would make me think a little more.

I think everyone recognizes that giving Posey 5 years with the full MLE is a really bad idea. They’ll need that salary flexibility, especially if they turn Ray’s expiring deal after next season into another great player with a big contract.

3 years full MLE is fine, though. Winning now has to take priority over being able to resign Giddens of Walker down the road.

Mike

I´m amazed at how people worry about our cap situation in 4 years more than about #18.

We can expect Posey to contribute as long as the big three do, the next 2-3 years. After that, he´ll give us a nice expiring contract, which is worth much more than cap space.

Does anyone think we could have signed KG on the free agent market?

Belichick wouldn’t do it thats for sure. Thats a real bad move. Posey shouldn’t get more than 3 years.

If Posey and his agent want to drive up the price then let him walk. We’re in the luxury tax as it is and signing Posey for that long keeps us there even longer. If we don’t act fast then we’re gonna get stuck with nobody so we might need to get serious about Maggette. I honestly don’t think Posey is going to get many 5 year deals like this source says. I really feel like they are just trying to drive up the price. Maggette has more value and we can get him for the same price. I still like Posey better, but I dont like the situation he is trying to put his team in.

I think you’re being naive, timpiece33, if you don’t think that sort of thing goes on. No explicit link has to be stated at all, but a day earlier the Celtics were telling the press that Giddens was going to be at camp, and clearly the agents and the Celtics would have been in constant communications on at least three players (House included).

With all due respect, naive is believing an agent is going to take a situation with no leverage and try to use it against the Celtics in an unrelated matter. He has plenty of leverage with Posey already especially if the reports are correct that Posey has a 5 year MLE offer. Giddens is irrelevant in this discussion. I seriously doubt the agent is as stupid as you are suggesting.

In my opinion, giving Posey full MLE this year alone is a mistake. Not a big one, and one that I wouldn’t be opposed to, but a mistake. This team could be much better by splitting the MLE among some players of interest than to fully invest it all on Posey.

Corey Maggette is by far a better player than Posey, he’s a guy you spend the full MLE on without thinking about it.

I’m calling BS on most of the teams that have apparently offered 5-years of MLE to Posey. It’s ludicrous, and if they’re real a huge mistake on their part.

I’ll say this, if the Spurs get Maggette… oh man, that’s a very very scary team.

If Posey ends up elsewhere and Maggette ends up in San Antonio, I don’t see a combination of two players splitting the MLE that is better. Sorry. You say it. You can’t come up with that grouping that makes it true.

I’d rather sign Posey to a 3 or 4 yr MLE, bring in a center with the LLE, and then offer one of the many PG’s an opportunity at the minimum rather than screwing with a Matt Barnes type and more money for that PG.

Using the MLE, only using Roger Mason as an example:

1) Roger Mason Matt Barnes
2) Roger Mason Mickael Pietrus
3) Roger Mason James Jones

At the moment I’d preffer any of the above combinations over spending the full MLE on Posey. Not that we’ll be able to get any of those combinations, but just to show that there’s some value in splitting the MLE.

You bring me back Tony, and I’d go full MLE on Posey without a problem. But you guys don’t want Tony, so it makes little sense to me spending the full MLE on a guy like Posey and crippling your chances in getting quality players to fill out your roster.

The should offer Posey 5 years using the non-Bird exception, or 5 years at the MLE with the last two years non-guaranteed.

I wouldn’t give Maggette 5 years either. He has been injured for long stretches

I don’t believe you’d get Pietrus and Roger Mason at the contracts you are suggesting. Pietrus, IMO, is going to get a nice payday based on numbers in free agency if he is patient. Plus, Roger Mason is not differentiated from the countless PG’s available at he minimum. That’s the deepest position in FA.

James Jones or Matt Barnes replacing Posey is a significant downgrade.

What is most attractive about Maggette is his ability to draw fouls and score heavily from the free throw line.

The playoffs clearly illustrated the importance of getting into the penalty situation early in the quarter . In addition , Maggette has clearly shown the ability to create his own offense…..with that said, Maggette would be my choice over Posey.

Well, I’ll ask you then… from the countless PG’s available at the minimum, who’s better than Roger Mason? Who add more value being paired up with Posey. I don’t buy House being it, so don’t bring it up (he’s not getting the minimum either). Keep in mind that I only presented you with combinations concerning one player.

I thought we were all about defense, and Roger Mason is quite a good defender. Good ball handler, decent 3-point shooter, finishes well around the rim. Can use his body to protect the ball under pressure. Can guard and play SG.

Roger Mason is a good PG and I don’t think he’ll be available for the minimum.

But Mickael Pietrus, James Jones or Matt Barnes replacing Posey is a VERY significant downgrade.

"Roger Mason is a good PG and I don’t think he’ll be available for the minimum.

But Mickael Pietrus, James Jones or Matt Barnes replacing Posey is a VERY significant downgrade."

Never said he’s going to get the minimum. Said he should be part of the split for the MLE.

He’s the one proposing that he can combine Posey with a min. vet.-type PG.

We won the title because of our D more than anything.

So – what’s the incremental downgrade from Posey to Maggette? I fear it’s significant.

We won the title because we needed to play some D, and delivered. If our offense improves, the need for D lessens. But that doesn’t mean you stop playing it.

The loss of Posey won’t hurt our defense as much as you guys are insinuating. I ask again, what happened to team defense? Help defense… do you think we’ll lose all of that because of Posey? We still have quite a few good defenders on our team and great defensive system the worry about losing his defensive skills is unwarranted especially when you consider the HUGE upgrade offensively we’d get.

Eddie House, Sam Cassell, Earl Boykins, Jason Williams, Chris Duhon, Tyrone Lue, Anthony Carter, Juan Dixon, Jannero Pargo, Carlos Arroyo, Kenyon Dooling, and Damon Stoudamire are all free agents. I’m pretty comfortable that we could secure one with the minimum salary and I’m not sure Roger Mason is that differentiated.

Budweiser Celtic – you very well may be right. But I wish I felt more confident that Maggette was a real team guy. I didn’t think he was that lauded for his D, overall.
I do love his offensive game and think it would be terrific off the bench.

Eddie House – Not getting the vet. min., and given the choices, I like my combinations better.

Sam Cassell – Lol, so now we want Sam Cassell in here?

Earl Boykins – No. Once again, you guys are worried about defense, and you bring this guy up?

Jason Williams – I think he’d get more than the vet. min. from a contender.

Chris Duhon – No way he gets the min.

Anthony Carter – viable option… I think Denver keeps him, and I also doubt he goes for the min. with the season he had.

Juan Dixon – No thank you. I think he can find himself a better contract than the min. though.

Jannero Pargo – Man you’re insane, you’re just throwing names for the sake of throwing them. NO WAY does this guy for the min.

I’m going to stop, this isn’t worth my time… if you don’t want to come to me with legit choices, this isn’t worth discussing with you.

The difference between these two is fall in the following categore:

Those who say they want win: CMaggette

Those who play to win: JPosey

…the comparison is not even close. I’d pick the one that plays to win.

..a bit tired apologies for my grammar ;)

Corey Maggette has only gone to the playoffs once, and he performed admirably during the playoffs.

Don’t bring that crap about wanting to win in here.

Rather on what wing we’ll get, I’m more worried about which team Maggette goes to. He’s fully capable of making contending teams into a monstrous teams.

A Spurs team with him would be insanely good. Thank god they play in the West.

If Posey goes to the lakers the celtics should throw away his ring and erase his name from the championship roster.

We really won’t know if Jones, Pietras, etc. are downgrades compared to Posey until we see them hit the hardwood this winter. Every year is a new year and Jones et al may blossom this year while Posey may slip. Who knows. That’s what they pay Danny for.

Rather on what wing we’ll get, I’m more worried about which team Maggette goes to. He’s fully capable of making contending teams into a monstrous teams.

A Spurs team with him would be insanely good. Thank god they play in the West.

That’s a true Statement

Corey is good enough to transform a team’s chances. If he landed in Toronto (Calderon, Corey, JO, Bosh, supporting cast) they’d become a threat to win the East (they’re not now).

Orlando would get a huge bump. Just think about defending Nelson/Corey/Hedo/Rashard on the perimeter while Dwight feasts inside. That would be an impressive team.

Detroit would get a massive bump because they’re desperate for some go-to scoring. That extra scorer would make the world of difference to their chances.

Cleveland and the LeBron’s would have the sidekick scorer they need.

Even a lesser team like a Philadelphia or Chicago or Miami. If they landed Corey they likely won’t be capable of winning the East but they’ll be capable of knocking a powerful team off in the playoffs making the road to the Finals that much harder.

That’s just the East ….. looking at some of those loaded 50 win teams out in the West and what Corey could do for those sides. Sheesh.

Corey Maggette is the a huge difference maker.

Posey vs magette looks like this. Posey is a great defender but offensively other than three point shooting he can’t do much else. (create his own shot for example)

Maggette is younger, is decent on defense but really shines on offense. He can shoot, drive in, get to the foul line especially well.

Even though with maggette our defense might suffer a little i have faith in giddens to take care of that aspect even if he is a rookie and maybe we can still get tony allen after all

I understand from poseys perspective he wants a nice deal but i think he is asking for a deal thats a year too long.

I’m indifferent who we get, but as long as we get either for next year i’m content. If we lose both though , danny needs a backup plan real bad

As much as I love Posey and what he does for this team, if Magette will sign for the 5 yr full MLE with us and Posey doesn’t jump first at a 3-4 year deal then I want Magette. Think of the value of him in a couple years with his salary compared to his ability. He will either be an amazing trading chip, or if we don’t sign Ray an easy slide into the starting line-up. (That or a replacement with Ray sliding to be the 6th man off the bench in a couple years. No way that Posey is a better signing for the same dollars.

Maggette is not a replacement for Posey. Maggette would be a younger, cheaper replacement for Ray Allen,and if Maggette is signed,Ray becomes very expendible at the trading deadline next year or the summer of 2009.

They can win without Posey, but it won’t be easy. They need someone else to fill Posey’s role, and I don’t see any current free agent who can do it. And don’t make me laugh by suggesting that Scalabrine might do it.

If the fact that Maggette hasn’t been in the playoffs very much in his career is going to be the criteria in assessing Maggette’s will to win , keep in mind the same could have been said for Pierce, Garnett and Allen too.

Let’s face it, “our big three” had hardly been fixtures in the playoffs prior to last season. Just because one’s team doesn’t make the playoffs , it doesn’t equate to questioning one’s will to win.

Nobody on this board personally knows Maggette , to question his will to win is ridiculous.It’s nothing more than unfounded speculation. He could have opted to stay with the Clippers for more money than he would make with either SA or Boston……that should be somewhat of an indicator as to his desire to win.

I’d rather have Posey. The defense and intangibles give him the edge, imo.

1. thank you for working on the holiday, jeff. 2. posey is more than a defensive presence. he’s a spirited leader on this team- the pre-game hugs, etc. 3. i want to keep him, but he’s entitled to get what he wants. 4. if it is between corey and james, first come, first served. 5. if we get neither, i prefer pietrus.

Posey actually wants the 5 years, full MLE.

If I were Maggette, I’d feel like I should do better.

Maybe Corey would sign MLE for like, 2 years, and then when Ray moves on, expect a big bump in pay. That could entice him.

doesnt magette play the same way/position as paul pierce? if yes, how come some of the guys here anticipate him replacing ray allen?

im not sure magette wants to sign a long term deal for the MLE. if ever, its full MLE for 1 year with the celtics? i think that makes more sense. (as im sure his value as a free agent wont go lower than full MLE for the next 3 seasons)

if some playoff team wants to sign posey to full MLE for 5 years, let them make that mistake/blunder.

this celtics team is not about posey, not about house. its about garnett, pierce, allen.

just get the following players:

chris andersen
alonzo mourning
pietrus or azuibuke (any of them defensive forward)
house or his replacement (any of them spot-up shooters) [has brent barry signed with any team?]

we are over-rating posey too much!!

man, imagine if posey did not opt out, and we had the full mle to get us some free agents… man!! wow!

who knows? i know giddens is a rookie, but isnt defending (chasing people around) the easiest task that a coach can ask from you (this is assuming you are fast and have balance). :D

as opposed to asking pruit to bring the ball up against the chris pauls and deron williams of the world…

One thing really to remember is Posey can play the 4 in our small lineup. Can Maggette?

ic. (not many players that can defend SF and PF, and comes equipped with a dagger 3 and that brotherly hug)

If Posey goes to the Lakers, he makes them a tougher, smarter
team. He is the type of player who makes very good teams great.
I hope they can come to an agreement that gives Posey some more
money and the Cs some wiggle room with the number of years.
Is Maggette going to score 18 and give up 22? You good folks who are downplaying Posey’s contributions have short memories.

Maggette is better, and would be a much wiser use of our money if Posey is either 5 years or none. 5 year MLE is absurd for Posey.

I don’t think it’s really even a debate on whom is a better player between Posey and Maggette. Corey is clearly a superior player to Posey. Everyone in the league would agree with that. Posey sounds like him and his agent are getting a little delusional and are trying to bluff their way to a long deal. If he does get 5 years at the full MLE, more power to him. He just conned a team..

A 3 year MLE deal is not a bad deal for Posey. I’d struggle to give 5. Don’t see that many better options however. Those suggesting fiscal responsibility .. do you support Ricky Davis OR Ruben Patterson?

  A 3 year MLE deal is not a bad deal for Posey. I’d struggle to give 5. Don’t see that many better options however. Those suggesting fiscal responsibility .. do you support Ricky Davis OR Ruben Patterson?

Would not mind Ricky here for a second.

Posey is great because of his D (Lebron and Bryant) and his reliable 3 point shooting.

His presence on the floor makes the opposition play straight up D as his defender cant cheat off him and help out on GPA. This is crucial imo. This is why house is important for us. This is why in tight situations in the payoffs rondo was often on the bench. This is why RA for example got that easy drive layup to kill the Lakers.

imo give Posey 4 years of the non-bird exception.. that works out just below 3 years of MLE. That should coincide with the end of the GPA run.

Would i pay him more to keep him? i dont know.. that’s why Danny is the GM.

What happened to the poll that has people wanting Posey more than Maggette, now it seems everyone’s jumping ship and now the majority want Corey more.

Posey’s lateral quickness is already in decline. What do you think its going to be in 5 years? Maggette would seem a better fit coming off the bench where we struggle for points. 3 years for Posey sure…say no to 4 or 5.

Wow how did Posey get so overrated. If the Laker series had never happened, no one would be calling for the Celts to break the bank for Posey. Yes he made some big 3s in that series but in the Detroit series he was absolutely atrocious and gave the Celts next to nothing. Maggette is a far more consistent player. Can we please put to bed the misconception that Posey shut down Kobe? It didn’t happen. Ray and Pierce guarded Kobe. Also although Posey played decent defense on LBJ at the beginning of the series, LBJ figured him out and it got to the point where only Pierce could guard him. Posey is not a lock down defender, considering he’s known as a defensive specialist, it’s remarkable that Pierce was a better defender than he was.

Everyone on the Celtics looked solid defensively. Even Ray Allen looked like he knew his way around the defensive end. Pierce played defense like Artest. If Maggette joined the team I venture with confidence that he’d be a better defender over the next few years than Posey b/c he will be younger and quicker. It’s much easier to play defense when you have Perk and KG playing behind you. I shutter to think about a 34 or 35 year old Posey trying to stay with the premiere wing players in the league. Posey also doesn’t take care of his body so he’s not going to prolong his quickness, whereas Maggette is a physical specimen.

On the offensive end they are night and day. Maggette has a great all around offensive game reminiscent of the Truth. Posey is a stand still 3 point shooter whose career percentage is an unimpressive 35% and considering shooting percentages decline as the legs get older I’m not looking forward to seeing Big Game James become Old Man James who’s specialty is 3 point bricks.

ALL I KNOW IS I WANT POSEY TO STAY WITH THE BOSTON CELTICS ON A 3 YEAR CONTRACT….SOME PLEASE TELL DANNY AINGE TO RE-SIGN JAMES POSEY

Its funny,we didn’t think PJ Brown was to old at 38,when we needed him,but a battle-tested, proven winner,who would probably make Boston his last stop,if he got the right deal,we are already putting him out to pasture when he reaches 36.