KG Schools O'Bryant
by Jeff Clark on Jan 1, 2009 9:37 PM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintRed's Army has this interesting observation from practice today:
Patrick O’Bryant’s name has come up a lot lately… and it hasn’t been good. The Celtics need a 7 footer to come off the bench, and he’s nowhere near ready to help. It’s frustrating for us. And it’s frustrating to Kevin Garnett too.
Word from practice is that KG took POB aside after practice and worked him over. It was an intense… emphasis on INTENSE… one-on-one session. Garnett did everything from explain how a first step taken in a certain way will work… to getting up in O’Bryant’s face to "explain" things. Afterwards, KG explained that he’s sick and his leg hurts… but he’s there… in practice… and making sure guys like POB get the lessons he got when he was a young baller.
I’m sure this will be a focus of some media reports tomorrow… because these guys did nothing to hide what was going on. It was so nuts, that the people who were watching, were watching in awe.
Updates: Here are the newspaper stories on this incident.
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Jeez…is it just me or does it seem like our lockerroom isn’t gelling as much as it did last year?
I mean, it could be nothing…but I’m not sure.
It also sounds like KG is getting fed up with the lack of bigman help coming off the bench. This whole thing between POB and KG may lead Danny to do something sooner rather than later
I Think You're Reading It Wrong
KG helping O’Bryant is a positive thing. Not many teams have vets who will help younger players learn the game and about life off the court. Just ask Perk about is first few years here when his mentor was Mark Blount who didn’t lift a finger to help Perk. Ray has also helped players when asked. Perk has helped younger players. He mentored Al Jefferson on and off the floor. I also don’t think “KG may lead Danny to do something…” Danny knows what is going on and I can’t believe he’s not trying to do something, which may even mean not doing anything. In the Celtic tradition, the C’s are a family. They have fun, they fight, they argue, they disagree on things and they get annoyed with each other. It is all intended to make them a better team. The present team is no different.
Good for KG
I am pretty irked that Danny didn’t “complete” the bench like he did last season. You can tell the difference in the bench from this year to last.
But more importantly, it’s good for KG to get in POB’s face and let him have it. A championship team shouldn’t have slackers. I doubt very seriously that POB will get the message, but it won’t be for lack of effort on KG’s part.
It's Nice To Want To Do Things
I don’t think Danny ever does nothing to improve the team. All the rumors and possibilities discussed this summer wouldn’t help the team. It would have been great to re-sign Posey and Danny did everything he could to do that, but decided not to because of the conditions Pose was looking for. The only difference in the bench this year is the absence of Pose. I think this is a major loss, especially defensively, but if you look back to last year I’m sure we could count games the C’s won that they shouldn’t have. I think we are all over-reacting to this recent road trip. With that said I still think the bench needs to improve. Teams are playing their first unit against our bench and we aren’t making them pay for it. Part of the problem is lack of height, but Pose didn’t give us that. Our bench can hold it’s own against other team’s benches. If they want to play their first unit against our bench then our bench needs to make them spend lot’s of energy. And our record is 28 and 5. I would also like to see more Pruitt. He gives us better defense and frees up House and TA to play their best roles. He would also give PP and Ray more rest. I don’t think I’ve see Gabe do anything bad when he has played. And I think we will see more of him in the second half of the year.
This will get lost in the Marbury noise but we played taller with Posey
What team played taller, more physical and quicker on defense, the oft used KG, Pose, PP, Ray, House/Rondo lineup, or Powe/Baby, KG, PP, RA, House/Rondo? Do you see what I mean? the heights are almost the same but KG clogs the lane on both, while Pose could guard any PF or sf on switches and Baby and Powe cannot. I think we have agree to disagree on this. Pose was long and skilled and his presence forced KG to take the low post position too. KG is out farther on offense this year because you don’t have 4 shooters out there revolving around him, Pose, Ray, PP and House. Its obvious to me that we play smaller without Posey and this is much of what is wrong right now. No way Portland pounds us down low if Pose is in that game. Pose would have guarded Aldrige who was moving without the ball and shooting over whoever was on him. Pose denies him the ball better, switches better, but also had long arms though not as long as Powe he would have been right on him. And as far as Baby goes, he has short arms, can’t jump and isn’t as quick as Pose even if he is an inch or two taller which I think is questionable
I think this debate matters becaus it might enough to get a long quick shooting forward again and not worry as much about a back up center, in order to create a similar chemsitry to last year.I don’t think so but it might. Id prefer to add Smith or Alonzo though
One has to admire Garnett
He’s the ultimate pro.
I also look up to his restraint. If I was given the chance of coaching POB, I’d probably be in jail by now.
Sounds more to me like a last-ditch attempt to use the hardest working pro in the business to get some effort out of a guy who hasn’t given any in seven years.
Next step: The waiver wire.
Bye, Paddy.
And as for coaching him, Cordobes – I wouldn’t have paid the guy a dime to wear the green.
So jail for me? Nah. I don’t coach slackers. I chase them off.
Entertaining exchange all around
Thanks – as always – fellas.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Jan 1, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
Still, it takes auto-control
To chase some guys off exclusively by pacific means… I’m not one of stoic nature, I’d probably choke the kid after the 10th time he was stripped of a rebound.
KG never seemed fed up in Minnesota
now all of a sudden, he’s going to whip a DNP sub to get him ready and coach him? That means either one of three things.
1.) KG is just being an a-hole.
2.) Danny Ainge said light a fire under his ass, because we CAN’T get another big man.
3.) KG is just being an a-hole.
KG never seemed fed up in Minny?
What are you smoking?
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 1, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
he was famous for getting on teammates in minny
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 1, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed, the Blazer announcers seemed quite giddy
about recounting his relationship with Anthony Peeler.
I don’t recall him and Wally being best buds all the time either. And there are probably a few others, though I can’t recall anyone specific offhand.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Jan 1, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Unrest? Anyone?
Watching the Pierce/Rondo/Ray Ray argument during the Laker game and now this makes me think that there is a lot of resentment behind closed doors here and its just now spilling out into the public.
As I Said Above
I think you’re reading all this stuff wrong. Ray has said in the past that each player holds each other responsible for doing their job. BBD can call out KG if need be. That’s the way this team does things. It’s a way of communicating.
On a tangential note,
to use the phrasing of John Goodman as Walter Sobchak in “The Big Lebowski,” I sense the Wizards are going to be entering a world of pain tomorrow night.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
Joe Smith
OKC is going to trade him. He would be perfect for the C’s. I imagine DA knows this. What would it take? Could we get him with a 1st round pick + and ?. Is the problem that we dont have a expiring contract to match?
couple of scenarios
1. OKC is going to weigh offers from a couple of interested teams. They’re either going to want a combination of prospects, draft picks, and expiring deals in exchange for JS and/or JS and a “bad contract” (Nick Collison has 3yrs/$18M left). The issues are which teams are interested in acquiring JS (Boston? Cleveland?) and what these teams are willing to give up.
2. JS agrees to a buyout(saving OKC a little $); is waived, and signs with the team of his choice. The issue is whether the team of choice is Boston.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Cool. KG sends a message to the faithful that its ok to be an ahole and intense. this means i can keep doing that too. Kidding
Several things happening:
the celts lost a great teammate. i think Danny did it in hopes he could lure “DWayne Wade” summer of 10 and win titles in the meanhwhile. Many of us couldn’t understand it and still feels like its a nightmare decision, really.
Ray really was weird in the la and gs games. imho we win those if he isn’t so bizzare.I think the time of the year disrupting his rain man routine as someone else mentioned is as good an explanation as any.. but we got bullied in portland. kg at his worst shrinking at contact self and perk getting hammered by Oden. we need a big. need i mention that pose was a physical instigator at times like this? we don’t have that now either.
KG is very aware, i am sure, that the idea was replace pose and pj by committee. that was TA, House, Baby, Powe, and anyone else who stepped up. IMHO, Baby and powe have been about as expected. house, ta and no one else helping is the problem. patty is throwing away his chance and in doing so making it harder on kg. glad kg would get on him and hopefully stay on him. i mean come on i am sure kg heard pj and deke are no longer available. This isn’t random today
Why is Garnett bothering, unless he wants and expects O'Bryant to play?
I don’t see why Garnett would be acting in this fashion unless he thinks O’Bryant should be playing. If O’Bryant is the total waste that some say he is, then why is Garnett dragging around a bad leg and expending a lot of energy for nothing? Doesn’t he read CelticsBlog?
Seriously though, who bothers to coach people that don’t have what it takes? Maybe Garnett thinks O’Bryant does have it. And perhaps Garnett is dissatisfied with either Glen Davis or Leon Powe.
I’d like to know a lot more about this.
KG Just Wants To Make This Team Better
KG has helped BBD, Powe and Perk. He’s helped anyone who’s asked for help. I don’t know the background with the O’Bryant piece, but this may be the first time KG has offered to help someone who hasn’t asked. Most vets do not like to inflict their views or ways or techniques on players who don’t ask for help. It’s not because they don’t want to help, but because they might feel it’s arrogant on their part. But if asked, they will do everything they can to help. Ray has helped Rondo with shooting. Sam is busy helping everyone. As to whether O’Bryant has it or not, I don’t think he would be here if Danny didn’t think there was a chance he did have it. Don’t forget, he’s not being paid alot of money. We can all see he does have skills. We just don’t know if he has the fire. And he probably needs to lift some weights. It would be nice to know more about what goes on behind the scenes of the media.
I see nothing wrong with this whatsoever
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 1, 2009 11:02 PM EST reply actions
See if it worked
Doc needs to give this kid 5 good first half minutes to see if this helped. It can’t be any worse than Big Baby on the West Coast trip.
And Then?
I am curious why there was no description of how POB reacted to the ‘man talk’. Surely he did something? Sulked? Cried? Balled up his fists? This is likely just some frustration being vented toward POB. Question is, did it originate with KG and his teammates? Or was it sent down from above?
I do agree that he is likely to be cut or traded soon. It is too much to hope for that he shows up in the lineup in the next game or so.
"First fix their hearts"-Eizo Shimabuku
O’Bryant would probably be embarrassed at first and could possibly become even quieter for a short time, but an ass kicking like this will probably help in the long run. It could “light a fire” in him as mentioned above.
On the other hand, he could just shrug it off and play well as he did in the pre-season.
by Ruben Wolkowyski on Jan 2, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
couple of wierd posts
Coach Bo, what do you mean about O’Bryant not showing effort in 7 years? The guy is 22 and has been in the league 2 years (this being his 3rd).
Wondbap, Garnett had a well-documented fight with teammate Rick Rickert (who suffered a broken tooth and was booted from the team shortly thereafter) and routinely abused Wally Z during games in clear sight of cameras. He rode him — hard. There was also a rumor that KG sucker punched Wally in the locker room after practice, while Wally was on a table receiving treatment to his knee.
He also had a fight with former teammate Anthony Peeler (who threw an elbow at Garnett during playoff game when he played for the Kings), which was rumored to have been based, in part, on Peelers longstanding hatred for KG from their time together in Minny.
This is why I keep saying we need you around more, CI
I knew I was forgetting someone notable with KG’s past teammate issues (see my comment above) – Rick Rickert! Well done, sir.
CoachBo can tell you more about it than I can, but from past discussions, my understanding is that he followed POB fairly closely throughout his collegiate career at Bradley, and perhaps previously – which is where the “seven years” comment comes from.
Anthony Peeler…someone for we Mizzou folks to be so proud of. “Attempted strangulation” – or something close to it may well have been his major there. Ugh. Bad times.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Jan 1, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
ah,sw, the big lebowski is right up there as a film- jungle jim loscotof would have been a good lebowski. but i digress back to bball. what has happened to ubuntu? if kg is working in his inimical fashion to inspire mr. pob, that’s fine. if not, this is not good. this team needs length and pob has it. should kg be beating on pob to show up, or on doc to give him a chance at more than garbage?
I'd say it's my favorite
The first time I saw that movie was the first time I really understood what the term “side-splitting laughter” meant in a literal sense.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Jan 2, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
YES!!!! image if POB comes out and plays, and dunks, and screams, and the place goes insane, i just want for him to show some kind of emotion, its like he’s sleep walking around out there. the kid has the talent, he just needs to hit the weights and get INTENSE about the game.
by xmuscular ghandix on Jan 2, 2009 12:08 AM EST reply actions
Don't Need To Wear It On Your Sleeve
You say POB isn’t intense because he doesn’t show it. You may be right. But Ray Allen doesn’t show he’s intense, but believe me he is intense, he just doesn’t show it. And if you had the good fortune to see JoJo White play you would say he wasnt’t intense, but he was. And if you were fortunate enough to see Larry Bird play you might say he wasn’t intense. He just didn’t show it except on rare occasions. Bill Walton wore it on his sleeve. Each player has his own personality and traits come thru in different ways. I agree with you on POB, I really don’t think he has the fire in the belly that’s needed to be an NBA player, but I don’t think either of us can tell if this is really true by his reactions or emotions that are shown
also: if you look whenever POB makes a good play, it seems like KG and Perk are the only ones that really gets into it, i think that KG is really pulling for this kid. From our perspective OB doesn’t play so its like he’s a waste that isn’t on the team…its not like that, this kid practices with them every day, he IS a boston celtic. why is it so crazy that KG is trying to push this kid to get something out of him- he is a team leader- hes not supposed to just accept that Pat doesn’t have it in him and pretend he doesn’t exist.
by xmuscular ghandix on Jan 2, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply actions
Celtics All Pull For Their Teammates
During a game I often watch the benches of the C’s and the team they are playing. The Celtics, as a team, always seem to be rooting for teammates to be successful. I don’t see that as much on other teams.
To keep Garnett happy, I'm thinking Doc has to start playing O'Bryant.
I’ve also noticed the thing where Garnett gets particularly nutty on the bench when O’Bryant does something positive. If Doc doesn’t start playing POB more, you’d have to expect Garnett to feel a bit aggravated about it. So it’d probably be easier for Doc to throw the guy out there and let him sink or swim for some meaningful minutes.
But then, for weeks I was hearing how hard Sam Cassell was working with Gabe Pruitt...
… and that seemed to not faze Doc in the least.
its like when your trying to teach a kid how to swim. He won’t let go of the wall, afraid to go out, timid…sometimes you just gotta dunk him under. Throw POB in the deep end- sink or swim.
by xmuscular ghandix on Jan 2, 2009 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
When Doc says O'Bryant "isn't ready yet," what do you figure the word "yet" means?
Doesn’t it imply a certain time might be anticipated?
Everyone knows the Celtics lack height in the front court. Doc led the coaches who told Ainge to sign O’Bryant after seeing him work out. And here’s Garnett taking his time to work with O’Bryant. So maybe that anticipated time is drawing near.
Cordobes, what’s so laugh-out-loud funny about feeding O’Bryant some meaningful minutes and seeing if he’ll respond with something of value? The hilarity escapes me.
Hilarious: suggesting Doc has to play POB in order to keep Garnett happy
Aren’t you reading too much on the “yet” word also? What do you want Doc to say? “The kid is a complete bum, he’s nowhere near ready to play in the NBA and I don’t know if he’s ever going to be”?
Also, how do you know that Doc was present in the the workout session? IIRC, he wasn’t there.
Feeding POB with minutes he didn’t earn is silly.
Huh? It's hilarious to want to see if O'Bryant can respond with something of value?
This comedy stuff is flying right over my head. Let’s see, you apparently think Garnett’s wasting his time. And wouldn’t feel offended if his time spent on O’Bryant wasn’t put to any meaningful trial by Doc.
I guess all that’s possible. I mean, I’d be offended, but maybe you’re right, maybe guys like Garnett wouldn’t be. But since we’re throwing out suggestions, I’ll try one.
I suspect a lot of people who’re invested in the position that O’Bryant is useless, would, yes, love to have Doc say, "The kid’s a complete bum, and nowhere near ready to play in the NBA." Since Doc’s not going to say that, the next best thing would be for the guy to be cut. Failing that, they’d have to be satisfied with never having him contribute anything. After all, it’d be inconvenient if O’Bryant ever did turn into something.
I’d love to see POB succeed.
Other than that, yeah, your suggestion that KG would be unhappy if Doc doesn’t play POB is delirious. I mean, I’m pretty sure he does this with every kid on the roster, at least the big man. Would he be unhappy if Doc doesn’t play them all?
One last word from me on this, and then I'm done.
I can think of several occasions where I’ve taken someone under my wing at work, and tried to bring them up to speed. And I’ve also had the experience, though only once, where I thought one of these guys wasn’t given an adequate chance to contribute. I remember I wasn’t at all happy about it, and let my superiors know it at the time. Somehow, I expect Garnett would feel the same. So call me delerious. (But cordially, have a happy new year.)
Happy new year to you to
But I still don’t get it: if KG works out with every young project, why would he be mad only if POB doesn’t play? Or has Doc to play everybody in order to keep KG happy?
Im very much thankful that even KG is a superstar and earning a big buck, he is spending time to TEACH teammate and trained them. What is the problem of hard and physical training people? Do you ever watched Jackie Chan movie[s] how he was trained by his master? Breaking his bones and Nuts?
How lucky Boston to have a KG? Do you think SHaq will stay an extra 5 mins of his time to teach his teammate? POB should learn and he must- otherwise he will be done..
I dont know why thiers some Boston fans that still doesnt love KG completely despite of what he gave to this team. KG never win a Championship in Wolve’s, but you can see and feel how the minnesota community love and support KG.
I hope everyone here do the same to him, I dont understand how a Boston Celtics fans who cheered and claps and get the championship trophy can say that KG is an a-hole despite of his good intention to help teammate. How lucky boston that you dont need to hire another extra coach for a big guy like the other team was.
So then this is positive, per the quotes from the Herald..
"He’s one of the best big men in the game," O’Bryant said later, still a little ill at ease. "It’s a hell of a favor for him to take the time to help me out.
"That’s just his style," he added of Garnett’s oral and physical aggression. "That’s his reputation in the league, and some people say I need to work on things, so this is good. We’ve done a few of these."
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