Ray Rejected: Rosters Revealed
by Roy_Hobbs on Jan 29, 2009 7:01 PM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintThe All-Star rosters have been announced, and Celtics fans will not be pleased:
The East reserves include two Orlando Magic, Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis. East coaches also chose the Boston Celtics’ Paul Pierce, Atlanta Hawks’ Joe Johnson, Toronto Raptors’ Chris Bosh, New Jersey Nets’ Devin Harris and Indiana Pacers’ Danny Granger.
The Magic will have three All-Stars in the game, including starting center Dwight Howard, who received the most fan votes of any player. The East-leading Cleveland Cavaliers will have just one, LeBron James. Among the notable misses on the East’s roster: the Cavs’ Mo Williams, and Boston’s Rajon Rondo and Ray Allen.
It's great to see Paul Pierce get the recognition he deserves, but no Ray Allen? Seriously? He's enjoying his most efficient season as a pro, and has been the most consistent Celtic all year long. I also have a hard time believing that Mo Williams didn't earn a spot, but that three members of the Magic belong on the team.
Maybe it's better that Ray will be getting some rest and additional time to spend with his family. Maybe injuries will open up a spot for him, much like last year. Regardless, however, it seems clear that the coaches got this one wrong.
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1. What is with people’s inability to give Ray the credit he deserves?
2. What will it take for Deron Williams to make his first AllStar team?
Because...
1. Ray quietly goes about his business. He deserves it, and this isn’t coming from just being a Celts fan. The guy deserves a spot. If PP is getting in with his numbers and play, Ray should be in too.
2. D-Will should have been on… but that means no Tony Parker. I don’t know what to say there. D-Will deserves a spot, but more than CP3 or Parker? That is a tough on… I think that is where the Spurs record may have helped Parker. Plus Parker’s game has evolved and changed as the aging Spurs are finding new ways to be successful.
My rambles: http://nbawithoutcable.wordpress.com
Ray Allen gets no respect
Ever since I’ve been following Ray since he has been on the Celtics it seems as though he gets no respect. Last year he didn’t even get selected for the All-star game but got in because of an injury. He then proceeded to absolutely tear it up but of course didn’t get the MVP since everyone loves Lebron so much. Now he gets snubbed again when he’s having a better season than last. What a joke. If anything Pierce shouldn’t have gotten in and Ray should have. I wouldn’t have minded that to be honest but really both Pierce and Ray should have gotten in and not both Nelson and Lewis.
Orlando got 3?
Is this the same team I saw the Celtics dismantle last week? You cannot tell me that both Lewis and Nelson are All-Stars but neither Ray nor Rondo is. Ridiculous. Good thing all that matters is Championships, I am confident we will come out ahead of Orlando in that department this year.
Orlando does NOT deserve 3 all-stars heck they dont even deserve 2…what an EPIC joke …they officially are my most hated team…
Devin Harris is overrated, and boring and Rondo outplayed him 2 straight games
So whats the story behind the magic having more all-stars than any other team? this is an embarrasment to the NBA if you ask me, I would feel much better if Cle/Orl/Bos all got 2…joke,joke,joke
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions
Lewis isn't overrated, he was deserving of the bid this year. His numbers closely mirror Pierce's.
Either Rondo or Ray Ray deserved a bit this year .. I wouldn’t have been the least disappointed had either player been selected over Lewis.
Mo Williams absolutely did not deserve a spot this year. I understand the sentiment of placing two Cleveland players on the roster to reward the team for a great start so far to the season, but had Big Z not been hurt, he would have been the 2nd player on the All-Star team .. easy. Just unfortunate circumstances for the Cavs.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
The magic do not deserve more all-stars than any other team, period
And Devin Harris was Just asked what hes looking forward to the most for all star weekend and he says “seeing the other players in a different light, the paul pierces and kobe bryants”
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
And throw the numbers out the window please
Rashard lewis deserves it? fine, than jameer should not be going
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, but Nelson deserves a bid too. Here's how he stacks up against Rondo.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
Nelson deserves it over ray allen? LOL
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'll add I never said the Magic deserved three bids.
I’m just stating that the players on the team are worthy of being chosen.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
I could care less about numbers bro…Jameer Nelson is not an all star..you say “in no way is mo williams in all-star” than WHY IN GODS NAME IS JAMEER WORTHY? please
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
How could you care less about numbers?
That doesn’t make sense.
You know why I said Mo Williams doesn’t deserve to be an All-Star? Because the numbers support that notion.
Here’s my last player comparison.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
Team record shouldn't influence who's an All-Star and who's not an All-Star.
Case in point, Antawn Jamison, Kevin Durant, etc.
Should they be penalized/rewarded for their team’s performance? No.
Jamison is the same player he was last year as he is this year, yet he’s not an All-Star this year as opposed to last year? That doesn’t make sense.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
I sympathize and respect your opinion.
Orlando got the short-end of the stick last year with Hedo getting snubbed, so we know what it’s like to be on the other side of the coin.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
Sort of agree
But an individual performance always happens within the context of a team performance. I don’t know a lot about statistics but it seems to me that advanced metrics still have not been able to extrapolate cleanly that individual performance from the team.
Of course part of the problem is, you only have 7 spots to fill. Inevitably there will be “ties”, the question is how do you break them? Traditionally I think the coaches use the team’s record as the tiebreaker.
Sure, I agree.
It’s tough to really correlate the connection between a player’s individual performance and a team’s performance. There’s SOME stats out there that try to connect the two together, but it’s really difficult at this point to really judge the influences & factors.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
It's not about penalizing or rewarding
It is understanding that many great players on great teams, play together in a way that leads to Ws, not the accumulation of #s. Do you think if Devin Harris was the C’s point guard he would average over 20 points? Players on not so good teams get opportunities to put up #s that equal or better players just won’t put up because of the quality of their team.
So if a guy is on a winning team and averages 4 points should that be tossed out? Of course not, #s have some value. But to put 20 PPG scorers on the team regardless of how they do that, is not necessarily selecting the best players. It has to be about numbers, yes, but not JUST the #s, and that is where a team’s record does play into who is selected.
Mo williams deserves it over Jameer, sorry.
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
We don’t even need to make a sophisticated “individual numbers don’t matter, team matters” argument that Rondo and Allen should be All-stars
Even according to the numbers, Allen and Rondo should be All-stars. Just look at the right numbers. Look at the league leaders in Win Shares (offense + defense) according to basketball-reference.com.
4. Ray Allen (7.3 win shares)
10. Paul Pierce (6.4 win shares)
11. Kevin Garnett (6.4 win shares)
15. Rajon Rondo (6.2 win shares)
Ray Allen is the most deserving Celtic this year according to this metric (almost 1 win more contributed than Pierce and Garnett individually). Only three players in the entire NBA have been more valuable than Allen – their surnames are James, Paul, and Howard. If Kobe Bryant were left off the All-Star team, there would be leaguewide outrage. And Ray Allen has out-produced Kobe Bryant this year so far.
Rondo is .4 wins better than Nelson.
Allen is a full win better than Lewis.
You can't look strictly at Win Shares though.
Sure, it’s a good barometer to determine who’s All-Star worthy or not, but it doesn’t paint the entire picture. Not once have I stated that Ray Ray or Rondo don’t deserve to be All-Stars, I’m merely arguing that Nelson & Lewis are worthy themselves.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
Fair enough, but I think win shares tells us more than any other singular stat can. I take no issue with saying that Nelson and Lewis are worthy — I’m surprised you didn’t call me out on my selective citation since Lewis and Nelson are ranked 10th and 16th in the league in win shares, respectively. They are deserving.
I think most people are upset not because Nelson or Lewis made it, but rather because both of them made the team. Sure, Orlando is having a good year — throw them a bone and bring one of Howard’s mates. But when both are selected, it starts to sound more like politics than merit. We’ve heard people griping about the Celtics all year — perhaps the smell of spite lingers in the air.
Sure Orlando is having a good year — but Boston is having a better year, they are the defending champions, and according to win shares (whose primary virtue is that it is an objective stat — raw and naked, not subject to subjective balancing), the Boston players are individually better than the Orlando players selected. Why should Orlando go 3-for-3 on All-Stars, while the Celtics go 2-for-4? Frankly, I don’t think there is a principled answer to that question.
He was rejected last year too remember
I was more rooting for Rondo. I don’t like that Harris, Jameer, and Iverson all made it over him…
Considering he gets the best of each of those 4 every time he matches up with them, I find it hard to believe he is the 4th best of the group.
what, no Hedo too?
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
MVP : Dwight Howard
ROY: Courtney Lee
MIP: Jameer Nelson
anything else we should give the magic?
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:44 PM EST reply actions
I wonder...
who gets picked if Granger can’t go (because of his knee, is it?) I say Williams gets in, as the commissioner tries to even it up for the Cavs.
On a related note: any chance the Cavs use this as motivation in tonight’s game? I hope Jameer is feeling high (and not fat and happy) because I’d like to see Orlando win.
Cavs win ,use this as added motivation…I cant get over jameer nelson being an all-star..Mo williams goes for 50 (haha not)
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
SNUBBED
FEEL bad for Ray – has to sting. KG and PP should protest in some way. We beat the Magic twice already and they get three. It’s a Big Bag of Billowing Bovine Fodder.
Is it Soup Yet?
Paul and KG should show some solidarity with Ray
and refuse to play the game as a protest.
They should refuse to play simply because first they need the rest. Second, it’s a collossal waste of time. If solidarity is the excuse, I’m all for it.
by iowa plowboy on Jan 29, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Amen to that
anything that keeps our guys out of the game sounds great to me.
Congratulations to those who made it.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Jan 30, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
Rondo and Ray
Will go on a killing-spree from here on out, as if they havent already been
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 7:57 PM EST reply actions
I think the guy it really would have set off, would have been Pierce. Paul takes these things personally. I don’t think Ray will mind too much. Rondo? Hmmm, I will be watching for that…
Oh baby, ray comes off like the type that doesnt care, but believe me, he plays with a chip on his shoulder and has that in him just like Pierce
by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 29, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
That’s all the better..and honestly, I would have preferred 4 snubs, some rest and some ticked off players! lol…oh well, I hope Van Gundy coaches the team and plays his guys a lot. In fact let’s petition to have the Magic represent the East!
:)
SVG should play LeBron 48 minutes, everyone wins
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
You're too clever
but I really like this idea of yours . . .
by Thruthelookingglass on Jan 29, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Big Al also snubbed
booooooooooooooooooo
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
Yeah, the David West selection baffles me a bit. I would have chosen Al Jefferson, I agree.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
BIG AL
Big Al got screwed. That simple— Big Al is among the top 5 big men in the West. Much, much, much better than David West. Ugh.
My rambles: http://nbawithoutcable.wordpress.com
holy cramolies
there is no way al should have been passed on
If Granger is there, Big Al definitely should be
Their teams basically have the same record, Indiana has 18 wins and Minnesota has 16 wins.
Where’s the consistency?!?
by Ruben Wolkowyski on Jan 30, 2009 3:01 AM EST up reply actions
its just the all star game
tons of players get passed over for less deserving players every year
not a big deal
I guess someone beat me to it but am i the only rabid dog celtics fan who is ecstatic with this snub?
There is no way to defend the magic having more than us: we beat them twice, we just beat them recently so its not like its ancient history. We beat them soundly too. we have the better record and we even have the better conference record which in this case is a good measuring stick too. WOW.
The Harris pick over rOnDo? rondo dominated this guy as few other players have been demolished this year
Tell me our guys won’t use this and not forget it? oh yeah KG won’t let them forget and RONDO BABY he will make them pay
LOOK
Jameer Nelson and Rashad Lewis are having good seasons, but not All-Star worthy seasons. I’ve been talking about how good these guys have been all year, but come on, not All-Star worthy. You can be an AWESOME player, but not be an AS. The recognition of AS status has diminished with fans voting for crappy players (read: Allen Iverson) because they don’t follow the game. Instead of getting quality starters, you get T-Mac and AI. WTF?!?!?!?
Mo Williams and Ray Allen got robbed. Yes, it would have been awesome for Rondo to get on the team, but I braced myself for him getting some vacation time. But Ray Ray… Ray Ray… WTF!?!?!??!?!?!?!????
My rambles: http://nbawithoutcable.wordpress.com
Mo Williams didn't get robbed.
There’s literally 5 or 6 players that deserved to be an All-Star more than him.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
To Make Us Feel Better About Ray
To me Ray Allen is the consumate All-Star. The fact that he wasn’t selected does nothing to diminish that. To make us put in perspective awards such as MVP, All-Star selection, etc., they are made by people voting and expressing their opinions. We have no control over that. Bill Russell once said something to the effect that the above types of awards have little meaning because they are subjective. The only award that really has meaning is winning the NBA Championship because no one can take that away from you. Ray has a Championship ring. No one on the list of added players, except for Paul, has a ring. Personally I’m glad Ray is not going and will get some vacation time with his family and rest. The same for Rajon.
Hopefully Garnett and Pierce don’t show, either. Let them rest rather than waste their time at this silly exhibition of bad pickup basketball.
Im with you on that. I am sure they will go but they at least kg looks like he could pass based on injuries
of course then they’d add ray to the team!
Quick question...
Who won the All Star game over the last 3 seasons? Who was MVP in each? Yeah, you don’t know. The ASG IS A JOKE… a beauty contest and a circus where nobody plays team ball and nobody really cares about the outcome. Especially not me.
I would rather none of our guys went to this silly thing, stayed home and rested and practiced up for the push to what really matters.
To show he is above being snubbed, Ray should average 18.3 points per game while shooting 52% from the field, 45% from 3 and 95% from the free throw line over the next two months. Oh wait, he already did that for the last two months?
by papa shuttlesworth on Jan 29, 2009 9:33 PM EST reply actions
ray got snubbed bad and so did the c’s, who are the best team. i saw the cav-magic game tonight and neither team was that impressive. rashard lewis is a good player but very limited. turkgolu could not guard wally. i don’t like how howard does all his posing and takes his shirt off to feed his narcissism. he also gets his stats early and coasts. and lebron spends too much time working the refs. and varejao, tho he hustles is a bill lambeer flopper. l.et people overlook the c’s
Why doesn't Lewis belong?
I find it pretty negative to respond to the All-Star selections by saying, “who is the least deserving All-Star?” I have no problem with arguing that one player deserves a bid over another, but why not phrase it “who got snubbed?” Where’s the congratulations Paul Pierce post? I also don’t understand why people think that Rashard Lewis doesn’t belong, 58% really? Why is Ray Allen more deserving? He is averaging less points and less rebounds. Their three point shooting and assists are nearly identical. I love Ray Allen and what he does for our beloved Celtics but I think we need to step back and look at it from a more objective perspective.
Also...
I’m sure the coaches aren’t trying to snub players. There are many deserving players and there will always be people left out that we think should be in there. That is the nature of the All-Star game. We could expand the roster but there would still be people left out. Take the game for what it is worth. I don’t find the All-Star game all that entertaining. I usually watch the slam dunk contest, the three point competition and the young stars games, but I usually don’t tune in the next day to catch the game. I’m sure it is an honor to be selected to the All-Star game but the ultimate goal for these players is to win a championship. Especially for players like Ray Allen who have been there and done that. It gives him a great chance to rest up and spend quality time with his family.
Sorry, but Ray Allen is an All Star
He may have been the team’s MVP so far, or at least the most regular guy in the season for the team with the current 2nd best record and current champion. This is ridiculous. I won’t watch this stupid All star game if Ray doesn’t go. I am so angry!
gimme a fuckin break
how bout your boy pierce included in the poll with lewis. nelson is by FAR deserving.
www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04
bottom line
celtics shoulda sent garnett, allen and maybe pierce.
orlando shoulda sent howard and nelson.
if you think nelson doesn’t deserve it, you don’t watch basketball, because the guy is playing lights out.
www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04
HERE, HERE!!!
nice to see someone up and lay out facts.
Yes- Ray was unlucky to miss out.
No- Rondo was not. Rajon Rondo is NOT All Star Caliber. Not yet anyway.
And a quick question to all the fans saying Granger & Harris should not be there based on their team records: Should Paul Pierce have been in the 2006 All Star game when the Celts finished 33-49? His Numbers were to a degree, similar: (keep in mind, Granger’s stats are based on the 42-ish games played, Pierce’s are based on 82)
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