Not Your Father's Oldsmobile

by Jeff Clark on Jan 30, 2009 9:10 AM EST in Boston Celtics Articles

The Pistons are just not the same anymore. Granted, it has been 5 years since their Championship (over the Lakers, natch) and a lot can change in that frame of time. But the Pistons were nothing if not a model of consistency from 2004 to 2008. Dumars wasn't happy with the Atlanta Braves of basketball (come to think of it, that analogy is outdated as well) so he promised change. There would be no "sacred cows."

It took till a few weeks into the season to get it done, but change indeed arrived in Detroit. Allen Iverson is now an Eastern All Star and the primary reason why Ray Allen isn't. Ben Wallace has been gone for a couple seasons. Instead of Flip Saunders, they now have Michael Curry roaming the sidelines. Rasheed Wallace is still there, but he's not nearly the player he used to be. And of course the biggest change is in the win-loss column. They are only 25 - 19 (currently tied for the 5th seed).

Now it sounds like Rip is questionable for tonight's game. So it would seem that this is a very winnable game. But don't count them out just yet. Iverson isn't what he used to be, but he's still a scoring machine. Tayshaun is as good as ever and always a defensive annoyance to Paul Pierce. And Rodney Stuckey is one of the game's up and commers. (Pistons fans are still excited about the potential of Amir and Maxiell, but in what little I've seen of them I remain unimpressed.)

The respect is still there too.

You definitely are going to have a lot of respect for the Pistons," Paul Pierce said yesterday. "They have All-Stars all across the board when they put a lineup out there. Even though they haven't been playing as consistent as [in the past], you still got to look at them as a threat because on any given night when you have guys like Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, Allen Iverson, they can be hell."

Said Ray Allen, "Detroit, we've always had tough battles against them. They get up playing against us. We're going to have a battle."

But ultimately this is a winnable game for the Celtics. I think we'll see a solid game from Ray Allen, espeically if he doesn't have to chace Rip around all night. I'm not sure if he is the kind of guy that takes All Star snubs too personally, but I wouldn't put it past the Celtics to set him up for a few extra open looks.

Should be a fun game but it won't be like old times. And honestly, that's ok with me.

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Pistons still boast 3 All Stars...

Pistons along with Spurs have smart veteran players. They can always find a way to win. That said if Rip is out and the C’s can contain Stuckey and Iverson, they have a good chance to win. Prince and Pierce always seems to blank each other, so points have to come from KG, Ray & Rondo and the bench.

by LuckyNumber07 on Jan 30, 2009 9:57 AM EST reply actions

Don't Get It

Why did the Pistons make that trade? Their whole problem is right there at the point. Regardless, this is an old team near the end of it’s run. The young players they have are not a foundation for the future. If they hope to parlay AI into an impact player, I don’t see how that will happen.

by TrueGreen on Jan 30, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions

it was purely a future trade

they got cap space to play with and I wouldn’t rule them out of trading Allen Iverson at the deadline

"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott

by Jeff Clark on Jan 30, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions

But

But they would also have about the same cap space with Billups. I don’t know the length of each contract.

by TrueGreen on Jan 30, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions

I think Iverson gives them cap space a year or two earlier, coincides with Sheed’s expiring. Plus I think Dumars disagrees with you about their younger players, especially Stuckey.

by Berkcelt on Jan 30, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions

Why

Is everyone saying Prince and Pierce cross each other out? I dont know about that, the last 2 years all I’ve seen is Paul dominate prince, and Prince conceeding that PP is his hardest guard in the lerague because of his footwork, also Prince didnt have 1 good game against the celtics last year…dont see it..Paul is 2 times the player prince is

by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 30, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions

in two games this year

Pierce is averaging 8 points against the Pistons

s. Detroit 2 28.0 2.5-9.5 26.316 0.5-1.5 .333 2.5-2.5 100.000 1.00 0.50 2.0 3.0 0.5 2.5 3.0 2.5 8.0

"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott

by Jeff Clark on Jan 30, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions

i don’t think he played many minutes in both games and i remember he had foul trouble in the first one

by twinbree on Jan 30, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions

in 3 games vs. Detroit last year

Paul averaged 15

vs. Detroit 3 39.3 5.0-13.7 36.585 1.3-4.7 .286 3.7-4.3 84.615 1.33 0.67 2.7 1.0 1.0 4.3 5.3 5.3 15.0

"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott

by Jeff Clark on Jan 30, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions

however...

when it mattered most, in the playoffs, Paul got 22, 26, 11, 16, 16, and 27 (an avg. of 19.7)

"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott

by Jeff Clark on Jan 30, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions

and he still dominated the Prince matchup

Rounding off the numbers, in 3 games:

Prince averaged 5pts on 23, 6 reb, 4 assists
Paul averaged 15pts on 36, 5 reb, 5 assists

by Berkcelt on Jan 30, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions

Exactly

PIerce has actually been the one giving the the problems on the defensive end

by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 30, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions

the point is

it is very legit to say that Prince gives Pierce trouble on defense – though not all the time

I wouldn’t say they cancel each other out, but if you asked the Pistons if they would take no points from Prince and 5 – 10 points fewer from Paul, they’d take that trade every time

"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott

by Jeff Clark on Jan 30, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions

Eh, I still dont see Tayshaun being that big of a problem for Pierce…Pierce looks twice as strong, sure Prince is long and those guys typically give Pierce problems, but that was also when he had noone on his side and all the attention was on him, when I watch the 2 matchup I see Prince having some of his worst games i’ve ever seen him play

by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 30, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions

But yeah, they'd take that trade off you speak of, sure

by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 30, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions

Not sure about that, maybe in spurts over the course of the game, but last year when Paul had reinforcements, it wasn’t much of a contest. In fact what I remember is Paul really dominating Prince defensively—I mean, if Prince averages 8 less points than usual and Paul averages 4 less points than usual, who wins? I don’t think the Pistons would be shooting for that (but that’s what they got last year during the regular season).

Also the game in Detroit last year really stands out for Pierce’s ability to absolutely shred their defense. That’s one of Baby’s most memorable games but Pierce was setting him up on most of those baskets he made.

by Berkcelt on Jan 30, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions

I should note

Btw I think you’re off on your numbers, Jeff. Last year if Prince didn’t score (-13) and Pierce was at 9 pts (down from 19ppg) then the Cs are plus 9 in that matchup instead of by their averages +6.

by Berkcelt on Jan 30, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions

Agree With Ancient Rivalry

Prince did a good job of guarding PP when Ben Wallace was backing him up. Since Wallace was traded Prince hasn’t been able to guard Pierce. Also, you can’t bring stats into this argument. The Celtics are now a different team and stats don’t mean anything with them. The C’s can win without PP scoring a point as long as he is contributing in other areas. PP scores big now only when the team struggles and they need one guy to take over a game. PP is the only one able to do this.

by TrueGreen on Jan 30, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions

I’m starting to wonder if Iverson is the scapegoat here and Curry is mostly to blame for the sub-par season they’re having. I think he’s the East’s Terri Porter

by twinbree on Jan 30, 2009 11:11 AM EST reply actions

I think Iverson is the scapegoat for their problems
Sheed and Rip seemed to have quit
Rodney stuckey is basically learning on the job, and is NOT chauncey billups
Michael Curry seems like an idiot.
Yet Iverson gets all the blame..it is pathetic

by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 30, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions

They also have no center, Amir Johnson and Kwame Brown? lol

and tayshaun prince is their best player…a guy I think ideally should be coming off the bench for a real contender

by TheAncientRivalry on Jan 30, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions

No, AI is to blame! Really HE IS!

So we have reduced ourselves to blaming this collapse on anyone other than AI is unthinkable. I agree that it is easier to manipulate or polute the team with a new unexperience coach, but without AI, and with Chauncey, they would still be in the hunt! PERIOD

Scott_T_CT

by Scott_T_CT on Jan 30, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions

i think the c’s respect the pistons a whole lot as they should. dumars seems to be in the beginning phase of blowing up the team, a la what danny did. i like their vets and joe d. is a smart bbman. billups was a big loss and i agree ai is more a scapegoat, but he does seem to be an odd man in sort of a problem- too much time with the ball.

by nazzbo on Jan 30, 2009 11:50 AM EST reply actions

I used to have respect for the Pistons, but not any more. They are aging and not very good. Basically they’re Phoenix East, except that, to his credit, Dumars has begun rebuilding while Kerr sits there with his finger in his ear.

by Brickowski on Jan 30, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions

The Pistons would be a lot better without having made the AI trade, so in one sense I do blame AI for their medicrity. Chauncey makes the players around him more efficient; AI does not.

With that said, I’m not sure Dumars really cares. This was a team that was stagnant. It needs a major shakeup, and AI’s appeal is not that HE is the missing piece, but that he makes them potentially players to do something interesting this summer rather than waiting another year and having to compete with everyone else out there for the big fish in 2010. The fact that AI’s a big name makes the trade sellable to Pistons fans, but the fact of the matter is that the deal was made so that Dumars is in a position to make a bigger acquisition down the line.

by theBird on Jan 30, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions