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The Rasheed Quote - The Sequel

Guaran-sheed?

More photos » Bill Kostroun - AP

Guaran-sheed?

Call this the 'post Rasheed quote' article.

For anyone who might be unaware, Friday night I met Rasheed Wallace for the first time and in the course of talking, I asked him about the Celtics’ visit to his home to convince him to sign with the Celtics. It had been said that Kevin Garnett suggested to him that, if he comes to the Celtics, they could be one of the best teams ever.

My question was simple. Did he think that was possible?

Here, from the Celtics Central article is most of the give and take…

Wallace:

Oh definitely. Definitely, playing with those three other guys, also combining that with the guys we have on the bench, I think we definitely can. Me personally, I think we can get that Bulls record. You know we have the talent for it. We have the will for it and…I think we have the defense for it.

Do you want me to use that?

You can. Because honestly, I really do feel that. That was a good team. They had some HOFs  on there, but we have a few on this team, too.

That’s a high mark to shoot for…

    Definitely.

Doc has also talked about having the best defense ever like, he uses the Chicago Bears the ‘85 team, taking that kind of mentality...

    We want our mark to be known as a defensive team, not just high scorers.

Obviously, the eye opener of that comment is…

Me personally, I think we can get that Bulls record.

Since I wrote that article, it has hit the fan. It’s had legs for 5 days now. It might be one of those comments that are referred to during the season from time to time, especially if the Celtics go on a major run. Or mocked if they don't.

Star-divide

Needless to say, it was talked about on message boards, and a number of internet sites picked it up. Finally, a few big media sites picked it up, like Yahoo Sports Ball Don’t Lie, Sportingnews.com's Baseline, and the Boston Globe. It has even made TV air time in a few places, I’ve heard as well.

In the Land of Outrageous Claims

It has a been a preseason with some large statements being made. Reggie Miller said he thinks the Lakers could break the Bulls regular season win record. Doc Rivers said that this year’s Celtics might be able to play the best defense…ever. I will eat a steak and ice cream diet and lose 20 pounds. Or maybe I'll learn five new languages this winter.

The difference is...these guys are serious.


A few thoughts come to mind…

1) I wonder if Rasheed would take it back if he could.

I think that even after all the brouhaha, Wallace would not want to take it back. Granted, I had to ask the right question, but that thought would have come out eventually, if he really believed it.

2)  Is it actually possible to beat that Bulls record?

The ‘board wars’ began in earnest. The great thing about a good debate is that both sides can make good cases, otherwise it isn’t a great debate, is it?

Three groups emerged:
A) Some were emphatic that he was delusional

Delusional went something like this…

They are too old. They won’t stay healthy all year. Too many other good teams that they have to play.

Age: Let’s look…

Jordan 32 (years old)
Pippin 30
Rodman 34
Kukoc 27
Harper 32
Kerr 30
Longley 27

Ray Allen 34
Kevin Garnett 33
Paul Pierce 32
Kendrick Perkins 25
Rajon Rondo 23
Rasheed Wallace 35
Marquis Daniels 28

While the Celtics Big Three are a few years older, Perkins and Rondo balance that with some needed youth.

Other Good Teams: They play the four other top teams, the Lakers, Spurs, Cavaliers, and Magic eleven times total.

If they split those games 6-5, they can only lose 4 more games all season. They still have to play the Hawks, Wizards, Mavericks, Nuggets, Jazz, Blazers and Hornets a total of eighteen times. And I’m leaving out the Bobcats, who always seem to give them a hard time. Seems like a difficult task to me. That means Rondo will actually have to play hard most every game.

Interestingly enough, the year the Bulls won 72 games, Seattle won 64 games, Orlando won 60, San Antonio won 59, and Utah won 55. That would closely qualify as four other top teams.

But you would really need to look at the teams and schedules a bit closer to see if the competition compares to what Boston faces this season. On the surface,at least, they are close. That Seattle team was extremely good and took two games from the Bulls in the Finals.
 
Injuries: The Great Unknown
They can happen to derail any team, at any time. That can be said for the Lakers, too.

B) Others were sure that it could be possible to get that record

 

There is no one like Michael Jordan. But Jordan didn’t have Ray Allen and Paul Pierce as his next best teammates either. The Celtics Big Three are still a uniquely strong troika, with Hall of Fame resumes.

The 2007-8 Celtics won 66 games. Granted, they had they something desperate to prove – to each other – to the world. Three legacies were at stake.

Granted there is no James Posey on the 2009-10 team. But there was no one like Rasheed Wallace on that 07-08 team. The starting five are better now because they are in their third year of chemistry together. Rondo is a much better player now. Perkins is a much better player now. That is huge.

Marquis Daniels would start for many other teams. Glen Davis is still improving. Eddie House has found his niche. So has Brian Scalabrine.

Having Rasheed is a game changer. For the first time, the Celtics have a long, tough and effective post defender, and post up scorer coming off the bench. That, to me, is more important than his three point shooting.

My surprise observation: When they were 27-2 last season, they weren’t even playing the best basketball that they are capable of. Often, sheer talent and drive won games. Chemistry wasn’t always that good, in spite of the incredible record. As Doc said recently, there might have been some personal agendas factoring in.

C) Some felt it probably isn’t possible to get the record, but glad that he felt that way.

     Self Explanatory – It’s good to be confident and set a high goal. Even if you miss, you will accomplish a lot.

3) Is there a motive to it all?

Psychological advantage? It could just be that Wallace blurted the answer to the question, and the team went and tied him down, gagged him, and gave him nugies afterwards.

Maybe there is more to it. Maybe it is an attempt at psychological advantage, or sending a message to the rest of the NBA. Players read what is written in the media all the time. Reggie Miller’s statement about the Lakers being able to break that record might make some look at them slightly different.

The Celtics might want to negate that image. The mind battles for the season and even for Finals starts now.

Doc Rivers went public stating he thinks this team can play defense a whole level better than it has the past two seasons when it was already the top defense in the NBA with Garnett. Even Cedric Maxwell was surprised at that statement.

The Celtics won 62 games without Garnett for 27 games, with sometimes weak and inconsistent bench play.

Everyone in camp is in great shape, and Paul, Ray, and Doc do not want to hear anything about resting or any kind of pacing.  Pedal to the metal, Gretel. Time to get ready Eddie.

Hey, as a fan I would be satisfied with something closer to the San Antonio style of prepping for the post season. I’ve already said that. Crush in the playoffs.

As a reporter, I’m all in on the "stop ‘em and drop ‘em" ride that Doc and the team sees. Let the good times roll.

My own take on the Rasheed quote? It would have to have a number of breaks go the Celtics way to have a chance. I do understand the kind of powerful season that this team can have. It seems a little ambitious, but Paul, KG, Sheed, and Doc have a special ‘road trip to basketball destiny’ planned. Count me in for the ride.

I’ll be at the game in Hartford tonight. Maybe someone will predict a shut out, even just for a quarter. You never know with this group. Maybe they will even make it happen.

They are going to be a pretty good basketball team this season. That's my prediction.

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Comments

Display:

Honestly, I want it.

Like you said, tank the season & crush the playoffs is smarter, but damn! Give me that adrenaline and go for the 72!

- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel

by Kiorrik on Oct 14, 2009 7:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well..

‘tank the season’ isn’t what I said, but I understand what you’re saying.

While we all know the playoffs are what counts, they know that too. I’m guessing they are assuming that a tremendous defense (Doc) established during the year, along with a 70 win season (Sheed) would put the fear of God in all competitors and would have a wrecking machine heading into the playoffs… all but guaranteeing Title #18.

by tenaciousT on Oct 14, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Air Time

Gary Tanguay talked about Rasheed’s comment on the air on his new radio show.

by Justin_Bobo on Oct 14, 2009 7:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tanguay

is where Wyc first caught my ear with his revealing comment about KG to Sheed.

That is where this all began, IMO.

by tenaciousT on Oct 14, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tenacious T, the man

You are a celeb. That quote just immortalized you… imagine if they actually do it?

Too bad they’ll probably finish 3rd in the East because they are all old…

Great work though…

by rickyfan3.0... on Oct 14, 2009 7:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks RF3.0

It’s all a bit heady, to be honest.

by tenaciousT on Oct 14, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

18-1

Thats a bitter number to swallow, but i’d take do it again. The Celtics shooting for 73 feels alot like the Pats trying for undefeated, and as painful as the end of that season was I still remember how fun the entire rest of that season was. Additionally, I dont think you can ask a team with KG and Wallace on it to dial it back during the regular season to save it for the playoffs, just too much intensity.

by UVMike on Oct 14, 2009 8:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sheed the Prophet

This team is better than those Bulls, talent-wise, depth-wise, experience-wise. It will come down to health as the deciding factor.

by Datahog on Oct 14, 2009 8:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

41-3

At the All Star Break were those Bulls.

Lets see what these Celtics Muster at the Break.

GuranSheed its not 41-3

Keep pumpin, ain't worried bout nuttin
Busters thought we was frontin, so reload and keep dumpin
Keep Sleeping on Orlando...

by BS Patrol on Oct 14, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bulls lost 3 games by 1 point each...

They came very close to going 75-7!

Just let the Celts win enough to get the league`s best record & stay away from injuries.

That will lead them to the O`Brien Trophy!

by Title 18 on Oct 14, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great read, Tom

I totally agree that we would have to have some seriously breaks along the way and we’d need many different things to sort of fall into place for us. 73-9 would be no accident. Things would have to go almost flawlessly, but at the same time, with the talent this team has, I guess you never know…

I wouldn’t be surprised if this team resembled the ‘86 Celtics more though. They have all the talent in the world, an incredible bench and appear to be able to “turn it on” when they decide they’ve had enough with an opponent. The ‘86 squad went 67-15. Sure, it’s not the best record, but that team was remarkably dominant.

It’s interesting how we still remark on that team even when the Bulls held that 72-10 mark. I suppose it just proves how great of a team the C’s were in ‘86. Sadly I was born three years later. But from all the footage I’ve seen and from all the books I’ve read, it sounded like a fantastic season. If this one can look anything like that one, I think we’ll be satisfied.

by Greg Payne on Oct 14, 2009 8:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll Settle for 71 Wins

And even that would require a medical miracle.

by Brickowski on Oct 14, 2009 8:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

would love to see the record broken just to expunge the Bulls from that position

That Bulls team was not the greatest team despite the record. Too many lousy teams in the league to make the record credible. also didn’t hurt that Jordan got away with whatever he wanted on the court. also don’t like Pippen—overrated 2nd banana. No truly great team would have Pippen as its 2nd best player.

Take any Celtic or Laker team from ‘80 to ’87 or Sixer team from ’80-’83 and they’d clobber that bulls team.

by slamtheking on Oct 14, 2009 9:11 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Had to rec,

SUCH WISDOM!!!

Keep pumpin, ain't worried bout nuttin
Busters thought we was frontin, so reload and keep dumpin
Keep Sleeping on Orlando...

by BS Patrol on Oct 14, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree

The NBA in the 90s was a joke. The Bulls won 72 games with Luke Longley playing center and an undersized no offense Dennis Rodman at PF. The 86 Celtics would have destroyed the Bulls. They would have had no one to matchup with Parrish, McHale, Bird and Walton down low. Pippin was a good defender, but Bird would have destroyed him in the post. Same goes for McHale against Rodman.

People forget how lousy those games in the 90s were. The Utah Chicago finals featured games where the final score was in the upper 70s. It was terrible basketball.

by John70 on Oct 14, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls won 72 games because MJ got away with what he wanted?

I bet a lot of people are thinking the same about this year’s Celtics. “Oh they’ll need the refs and they know it lolz.”

‘86 Celtics > ’96 Bulls? Yes, I’ll take that to the bank and demand they gimme that check. But the Bulls went 72-10 cause of the refs? That’s just hating.

by Tai on Oct 14, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it’s a goal-there also is a bigger one. neither will be achieved without the key goal and that is to keep the team healthy which involves luck and eddie lacerte.

by nazzbo on Oct 14, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

don't care about 72

All I want is the title. As a player, you set it as a goal to win every game, but as a fan, I don’t care.

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Oct 14, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice work as usual Tom

one thing I love about your articles is the way you give the full context of the quotes by including the questions you asked

too many quotes are misunderstood because the reader doesn’t get to see what the player or coach is responding to

I actually feel like I can picture the conversation when I read your stuff

to everyone else, for another good example of this, see Tom’s article on Marquis Daniels here:

http://blog.ctnews.com/halzack/2009/10/12/marquis-daniels-strategy-is-great-but-defense-is-about-attitude/

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Oct 14, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Jeff ( and Greg)

And let it be noted that Celticsblog was the first to pick it up and got the ball rolling, IMO.

Many thanks for all the support and visibility that Jeff and this site gives a writer. It’s been a blast so far and we’re just getting started.

Barring injury, this is going to be some heck of a season. Enjoy every minute because teams like this just don’t come around that often.

by tenaciousT on Oct 14, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know about 73 wins....

With this lineup, it’s possible…

I’m hoping they hold true to the defensive promise and stay healthy. I can more likely see them beating their 66 win record and finishing first place.

by stevenfuzz on Oct 14, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Today is not 1996

The problem is that the Eastern Conference is a lot better now than it was then. That Bulls team wouldn’t win 70 much less 72 agains the Eastern Conference today. The Eastern Conference was sorry in the late 1990s. The Eastern Conference didn’t have any players the caliber of LaBron James, Dwight Howard or Dwayne Wade who didn’t play for Chicago. Top to bottom the conference is just much better. If the Celtics were to win 70 this year against this competeition, they would stake a claim as being the greatest team ever.

by John70 on Oct 14, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hell, if we win 70 i’ll be unbeleivable excited.

But more importantly i’d LOVE for this team to be known as the “Best Defense Ever”.

by jesse_stoneham on Oct 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

tenacious t!!!

I hate you now more than I hate jimmyt

Of course I am very sure you told Sheed that I am not big on three’s and that he should keep that in mind as they season progresses.

And now that he is on my fantasy team he is free to call me and we can discuss his shot selection…….and bold predictions he should not be making…reverse jinx
Seriously….nice work and yes…. I hate you

Is it Soup Yet?

by Master Po on Oct 14, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

lol

yeah, I’m not as enamored of his three point prowess either. It looks like that is a part of the plan, though. Doc wants to make teams have to make a decision on him..and then exploit that decision either way.

I’m looking forward to having a strong interior defender when Perkins rests, myself. But I’ll take the long range bombing, too!

by tenaciousT on Oct 15, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Anything's Possible!!!!!!"

If they are in fact a better defensive team this year than they were in 2007-2008, then they can pull this off (72+ wins).

The Bulls were a great defensive team to get that record, and the C’s this year can match that intensity I believe.

Defense wins games (And Championships).

by Celtics18and19 on Oct 14, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not happening

The gargantuan difference in talent level between the East in ‘96 and now is palpable. On top of that, the ’96 Bulls were ridiculously good — they led the league in both offensive and defensive efficiency; while this Boston team may lead the league in the latter, it’s not leading it in offensive efficiency, namely because of the abnormally high turnover rates this team has produced. This team needs to concentrate on 1) being healthy 2) getting the first seed before declaring they’re embarking on a record-breaking season that means nothing when the trophy at the end means everything.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Oct 15, 2009 1:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Mand from Sporting News???

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-random16-2009oct16,0,2431570.story says Wallace told Sporting News. Who is that interviewer affiliated with anyway???

tenaciousT has been sporting news for sometime, just not that Sporting News.

by ManchvegasBob on Oct 16, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I actually contacted the LA Times for accuracy. We’ll see if they correct it.

by tenaciousT on Oct 16, 2009 11:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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