Rondo's Maturity Revisited
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 8:56 PM EDT
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123 comments
Remember this quote from Doc?
I thought we had a lot of different agendas. Guys were looking out for their own situations more than the team situation. That came through all year. It was never anything really big, but it was there all year. You could see it in little things, and I think when you take it as a whole it really had an effect on our season.
It seems like Adrian Wojnarowski has shed at least some light on what some of Doc's concern was about:
Rondo appeared to want his teammates to air out complaints in the early evening of April 14, but it rapidly deteriorated into a grievance session that had the uncomfortable vibe of the young guys against the Big 3 of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.
Rondo never vented, but one teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth. Rondo insists he had the best of intentions, and yet there’s no mistaking the fact the meeting served to widen a gulf between him and his older teammates.
Doc goes on to say that the meeting was a mistake, serving little purpose other than negatively affecting team chemistry. However, Doc says that this pre-season, Rondo has been "phenomenal" in terms of both his play and leadership. Still, one wonders if its events like the one above that caused Doc and Danny to both call Rondo out this off-season.
The team has been reluctant to give Rondo an extension this off-season, reportedly worried that he wouldn't handle a big extension well. Wojo reports that there was a sense that Rondo wanted it to be the "Big 4", and that both front office personnel and teammates had an issue with his attitude. That leaves Celtics fans with a question: is Rondo too concerned about being "the man"? Was his recent admission that he gave up proper defensive position and allowed his man to get by him so that he could gets steals a sign that he cared more about statistics and making flashy plays than he cared about making the smart play?
The good thing is that Rondo is saying all the right things this pre-season, and he has responded to Doc's and Danny's criticism well. In order for this team to get back to the Finals, they're going to need a full commitment from every player to put the team first. Rondo admits "I’ve got to mature a little more." Let's hope that process accelerates, for the good of the team.
UPDATE: For an extensive further look at some of these issues -- including Rondo's problems last season with his teammates -- see Ric Bucher's Insider article.
Editor's Note: Jeff wrote about this maturity issue back in June (just in case you can't get enough of this Rondo talk)
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Maybe I approached it wrong....
…But I assumed that the “letting his man get by him” was not a concern about numbers, but more a bad habit he picked up at lower levels of competition, where he was enough of a better athlete to save some energy and make a play that started a fast break by making the lazy play. I think he’s learning that doesn’t cut it against NBA players.
by Fan from VT on Oct 22, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think you're probably right...
But who knows…
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unclear
“Rondo never vented, but one teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth.”
Are the whiny words coming out of Rondo’s mouth or the anonymous teammate’s mouth?
by misterx2day on Oct 22, 2009 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like teammate.
Roy, excellent put together piece.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
by indeedproceed on Oct 22, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whiny words came out of the teammate, but he was pushed to complain by Rondo even though he didn’t want to, apparently. The perception on the team was that Rondo was putting his other teammates up to it.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who was the teammate?
My gut says big baby. Who else would do that? I highly doubt Walker, who was not even with the team for the majority of the time last season. Pruitt same case.
Also, with Perkins like Perkins is, he wouldn’t A) blab about a team meeting to the press and B) say disparaging things about Rondo
Had to be Baby..he’s the only one so self involved that he would think he should speak up during a vets meeting, or that his half butt regrets mattered enough to mention to the press.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
by indeedproceed on Oct 22, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it definitely could be BBD...
I like the guy, but he seems like the type of guy who could be persuaded by teammates to say something, and then later regret it.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baby was my guess too--for whining, regretting it later and then saying so.
by clover on Oct 22, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
My guess was Powe…especially after leaving team and having an issue with the Celtics org.
by jdpapa3 on Oct 22, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i highly doubt a person like powe would do that
he doest even quite like talking to much and is so not self involved at all
by aeternus on Oct 22, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This speculation is ridiculous. If you think any of us know anything more about who these players
really are off the court, you’re delusional. We see what they want us to see and what the media builds them up to be.
Remember Larry Bird? How many of us would have called him an absentee father when he was a hero player.
How about Robert Parish. Beloved Chief. And wife beater.
So now you’re ready to declare Leon Powe a saint and castigate Glen Davis based on … some distant view of them you get from personality pieces that run during the halftime of games?
Naive.
by Cousin It on Oct 23, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bah
If I have to read one more time that it was probably Baby but certainly never Powe or Perkins, I´ll go out and punch a Red Sox fan. Maybe you´re right, maybe not, but these are completely unfounded assumptions.
You guys don´t know who it was, you don´t know what happened, but you´ve already found a culprit, huh?
Whoever the teammate was, he apparently already admitted that whatever he may have said wasn´t even his real opinion. To come to this conclusion because “Baby is so self-involved” is a leap of logic I can´t follow.
by Casperian on Oct 23, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course,...
I would never really punch someone for this. Where I live, it would take me weeks to even find a Red Sox Fan. It was merely an expression of the anger some of these extrapolations provoke in me.
Nothing personal.
by Casperian on Oct 23, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't make such assumptions...
I have a hard time visioning Rondo forcing words out of other teammates’ mouths. We also don’t know that the anonymous young player didn’t want to say those “whiny words” at the time. Obviously, in hindsight, he wouldn’t want to.
by Pengaloo on Oct 22, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not the one making assumptions...
I’d encourage you to read the article.
For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.
[O]ne teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did read the article, multiple times
Perhaps we disagree over semantics, but my interpretation is that “some Celtics” referred to the Big Three. In other words, the Big Three got the sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to vent — but how would the Big Three know that the young players didn’t want to say whatever was said in the heat of the moment?
For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.
Rondo never vented, but one teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth. Rondo insists he had the best of intentions, and yet there’s no mistaking the fact the meeting served to widen a gulf between him and his older teammates.
by Pengaloo on Oct 22, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
Rondo has come a long way from April, when there were influential members of the organization – from front office to the floor – who wondered about his agenda
Apparently, at the end of the season both management and his teammates had major issues with Rondo. Let’s hope that everything has been worked out, and stays that way over the course of a long season.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not like Rondo pushed Baby to say anything, he pushed everybody together so that they could get issues out in the air; the player said what he wanted to say. Your not reporting that correctly…..
by misterx2day on Oct 22, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smell trouble
This is not going well at all. Who does Rondo think he is? He better straighten up and fly right. He is a good player but he isn’t great. Definitely replaceable.
by Celtico on Oct 22, 2009 8:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
By who?
Without Rondo this year, we’re sunk. He’s our most important player. The least replaceable.
by Black Bird on Oct 22, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doc's thoughts on player meetings:
"I hate player meetings," he said. "The right things are never said. I’ve always believed that either guys blow smoke up each other’s [rears], or they go the completely opposite way and say (bleep) they can’t repair.
"Well, they had it and everyone got on the bus all [peeved] at each other."
[Ray] Allen walked past Rivers with that you-told-us-so line, and the Celtics climbed off the charter flight and onto the team bus in Philadelphia in a way that they never did: single file. The bus to the hotel was silent. No words spoken. Rivers had a young point guard trying to fill the leadership void, and assuredly suffering the repercussions of a tactical mistake.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 8:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's disappointing that the player meeting had to end that way.
I think open lines of communication are so important for good relationships. How come it doesn’t work like that in this case?
by Pengaloo on Oct 22, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly he's had quite a bit of experience with player meetings
by BballTim on Oct 22, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meant to add
If Doc went through a lot of player meetings it’s hard to expect Rondo to know it’s a bad idea before his first one.
by BballTim on Oct 22, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh boy this again. Really when are we gonna realize that Rondo is who he is and learn to love him. Celtics fans have been haveing wet dreams about a point gaurd like him for almost 30 years and every time I turn around I hear and see stuff like this. Rondo’s Maturity. Gimme a break this kid is more mature than 90% of kids his age and they have less money and responsiblity than him. I mean come on people if we are gonna talk about Rondo lets start talking about how GREAT he is. If you feel the need to nit pick the kid then talk about his shooting.
Seriously if I told you 7 years ago that the Celtics could have a Point Gaurd that was faster than anyone in the league, could handle the ball with the best of them and could dish it, and he would also be the best defender at that position his only weakness would be his jumper but he can get past anyone in the league and get to the hoop, Also he would have to deal with 4 Allstar Players while doing all of this I would have been called a nut job or told I was dreaming. Well I am not dreaming and neither are you. Rondo is that player.
Really when is this stuff gonna stop when he is 30 people will be saying boy he sure is immature. No they wont they will say he is a hall of famer. See how silly this is. So lets nip this in the bud and start talking about how good we have it with him cuz I don’t want to think about not haveing him. If Rondo is let go or however he makes his way off this team we won’t be seeing a guy like him around here again. Cuz Chris Paul or D.Williams wont be walking through that door once he is gone. Teams tend to hold on to great Point Gaurds. Around here we tend to bash them into leaveing aperantly. It needs to stop.
by oneflewover on Oct 22, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rondo is a great point guard...
But he’s had issues with his attitude at every level of his career. Doc and Danny are very publicly, and very vocally, pointing out some of his flaws as a teaching technique.
So far, Rondo has acknowledged the message, and has sworn he will change. That’s good enough for now, but ultimately, the proof will be in how he handles the challenges of this season.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s this season so much, is how he handles being the star of the team. As his role increases, and he becomes the focal point of opposing defenses, and the media then that’s when it comes to a head. Does he grow up enough between now and then?
by amenhotep04 on Oct 22, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree/Disagree
Rondo is and should be our point guard for a long time. When the big three are gone, he will need to be the face of this franchise for a time. He has a great skill set for the position he plays. All of this we agee upon.
However, it seemed obvious to me that he had his own agenda at the end of last season. There is no way he was the best defender at his position at the end of last season. His man seemed to get by him at will sometimes. His passing and decision making was not good and seemed downright selfish at times.
I say this only to point out that he was not putting team first last season. If there is one position that requires you to put team first it is the point guard position. He will never and should never be mentioned with Paul and Williams until that happens. All three do lots of things well, but the two not wearing Celtic uniforms seem to do it within a team first concept.
Hopefully Rondo can use his all-star caliber skill along with a team attitude. Then and only then will he really be all that you say he is.
by MurphyHOF on Oct 22, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just want to add...
that now is the time to put our eggs in his basket and give him the opportunity to show the team attitude. He is what we have. I am pretty darn happy about it, too. Let’s get behind the kid!
by MurphyHOF on Oct 22, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the team agrees with you...
Lately, there have been a lot more “Rondo is the point guard of the future” comments from both Doc and Danny, and KG notably went out of his way to praise Rondo this off-season. Maybe they’ve decided the way to go is to praise him, while also constructively criticizing some of the issues they have with him (i.e., his gambling on steals).
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From watching them play
I’d say KG has always been with Rondo, Allen not as much, and Pierce the least.
by BballTim on Oct 22, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's a great observation
I’ve always sensed that too when watching them play.
In regards to the article, it seems to me that Rondo was simply trying to clear the air a bit. Having witnessed that game vs the Cavs as a fan, I was embarrassed and frustrated by the showing – so I can imagine what the players themselves felt. There MUST have been a lot of tension on the bench and in the locker room after that game.
DA and Doc want Rondo to be a leader, in this case he decided to take the lead and air out grievances but it didn’t go over well with the vets.
And here is the issue that I’m having with how DA and Doc are approaching this; they want Rondo to be a leader – as long as he defers to the Big Three. Just doesn’t work. Either you want the kid to be a leader and let him or you want him to fall in line. You can’t have it both ways. Its sending mixed messages to a guy you say you want to be more mature – not a good combo.
-—————————————————————
On a different note, I’ve always thought Doc’s “different agendas” comment was about Big Baby. That’s the guy who popped into my head immediately – not to sound negative, but Glen was the guy who’s value increased the most as the season went on. Before we were out of the playoffs, everyone was talking about what his value was… just makes the most sense….
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
by RJ87 on Oct 23, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i see that.
and it makes sense. KG would like to play with anyone who was intense and meant he wouldn’t need to be the focus of offense every time. He’s fine with second banana offense. Same with Ray. Ray is very effective curling around of screens and getting setup. He’s also a newcomer to the team, so he doesn’t have much invested in being the face of the franchise. Pierce (and Pierce is basically my favorite player), however, is most used to having the ball in his hands and being the face of the celtics. Rondo represents a bit of a slice into both.
by Fan from VT on Oct 23, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No…Rondo is by all accounts closest to Ray
If he has a problem, its probably with Pierce…and it goes both ways, but we’re only getting the side negative about Rondo…Pierce can be a primadonna, immature, baby…but since hes the verteran, blame rondo
by latin on Oct 23, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By all accounts?
I don’t know, from what I’ve seen those two argue the most on the court, which is probably what the original comment was based on. I think all of the “big three” have been complimentary towards Rondo and the young guys this pre-season, though.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting article for sure
but theres alot of unknowns in it
“For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.”
What younger teammates? isnt BBD the only player younger then rondo on the team? and there was a “sense” rondo prodded the teammate, so did he, or didnt he?
and what is so immature about wanting to hold a team meeting, and wanting it to be a big 4?
My guess is things like this happen…um ALLL THE TIME, on every single team…theres no real reason for this to be news, for some reason rondo has become a target of soap opera, smut magazine like drama, better left behind closed doors
by latin on Oct 22, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
insightful, very well done Roy
maybe more than I wanted to know because now it will be in my head about Rondo but this was meaty stuff to read….again nice job
Where did the picture come from?
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Oct 22, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love that picture...
It’s wallpaper from NBA.com
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did they ever publish small ‘probelms’ like this that players have had, almost every player whos every played in the league has had something, honestly this is nothing.. can we get some meat on how the big 3 have been behind the scenes in there careers, and how immature they are? or is this just something thats just done with rondo?
…just doest make any sense
by latin on Oct 22, 2009 9:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Here's my question...
If Rondo’s attitude / maturity wasn’t seen as a major problem, why would Danny / Doc be saying the things they’ve been saying?
There’s got to be something to it, right? It can’t be solely a negotiating ploy, right? If it is, why haven’t the Celts used similar tactics with guys they were negotiating with in the past?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, i dont care…because every other player in the league gets away with it without it being “news” …I know for a fact the big 3 have all been primmadonna whining babies behind the scenes most of their careers, yet there organazations never publically ripped them, nor does it happen to all the loud mouth, primadonna, cancers around the league. this is sad, truly sad…Im beginning to think we dont even deserve rondo
by latin on Oct 23, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aperantly I am not the only one who is sick of this. Well said Latin. It really does get old does’nt it? Or maybe we are the only ones who are tired of this played out topic when it comes to Rondo.
by oneflewover on Oct 22, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
extension
too bad they haven’t agreed upon a reasonable extension – I would have preferred to not have that hanging over us all year
however, I’m willing to see the positive side, which is to keep pushing him to work on being the best and working issues like this out
…like KG said, not just for the contract, but to be the best he can
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Oct 22, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
adrian wajranowski
guys, everyone needs to relax. the writer who put this peice on yahoo.com is a drama queen with a flare for the dramatics. He is a great writer, but that is the problem. He over blows things and makes them all seem like these big, epic dramatic adventures.
Rondo is a stubborn person, but only because he is competitive and hates loosing. This may be a bad quality for a young player, but it is the spirit of the celtics. He will mature and learn how to dial this back, but i would rather have a hot headed competitor than someone who just doesnt care about the game and shows no emotion.
I am sure there is some truth to this team meeting story, but i doubt it was the event that wajronowski explains. These guys all really like each other, and many players have described Rondo as the “kid brother.” He is quickly maturing and his youth and stubborness are something that fuel this team. Doc has said that he wants to see Rondo retire as a celtic and be remembered as one of the great players to wear the green and white. I really dont see it as anything to worry about. The fact that these guys can talk things out and make the effort to tell each other how they feel means that they are comfortable with each other, like family. Ubuntu will prevail
by chilli on Oct 22, 2009 9:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
How many guys that you work with do you want to hang out with? Not many I bet. These guys are with each other 12 hours a day for about 10 months a year. I’m going to be they wear on each other nerves.
As for the impact on Rondo & his contract talks, the C’s are going to have to look around the League and realize that DWilliams and CPaul are making about 13mil per. Tony Parker makes 8-9. Rondo is probably looking for 10-12 a year. Not unreasonable, but Ainge and the ownership are going to look hard at the dollar amount and length before they hand Rondo a big check.
Personally, I think he’s worth it if he develops a reliable shot.
I’m sure guys like GP & Kidd weren’t the most popular players with their teammates, but they helped their teams win.
by LuckyNumber07 on Oct 22, 2009 9:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rondo Is Growing Up
We forget how young he is. He’ll be just fine.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
by TrueGreen on Oct 22, 2009 10:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Roy I'm Disappointed
IMO this whole article and most of the posts are BS. Rumors, innuendo and re-cycled BS does not make a REAL story. I guess times are tough to come up with a good story, although with the season about to start you’d think you could come up with something original. We are rehashing all the BS from the last 2 years. If Danny says Rondo needs to mature he’s throwing him under the bus. Coaches and GMs have been saying "negative’ things about players for as long as I can remember. I doubt that it bothers Rondo as much as it does the people on the board.
So there was a bad players only meeting. Heck, maybe the problem was KG and not Rondo or maybe it was PP or Ray. None of them played very well in the Chicago or Orlando series – KG didn’t even play. And clearly in the Chicago series Rondo was the best player on the floor. As for eqo and attitude everyone of those guys has an attitude and if you check with the rest of the league they’ll tell you they are arrogant and cocky. Well, you know what, they’d better be. That’s if you want to be more than a vagabond and the team needs that combination to be a contender and champion.
Why is it that we don’t hear a bunch of negative things coming from our players?!!!!! It comes from reporters and those unnamed sources. You want a circus atmosphere route for Golden State or Portland or Memphis or Chicago or some of the other pretenders.
by badax33 on Oct 22, 2009 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Have you been following this story since the playoffs at all?
1) There were reports that Rondo was late to two separate playoff games;
2) Doc questioned Rondo’s effort / consistency in later playoff games;
3) Doc questioned Rondo’s maturity;
4) Danny questioned Rondo’s maturity;
5) Multiple media reports suggested Rondo had issues with certain teammates;
6) The Celtics offered Rondo in trade to multiple teams;
7) Multiple media reports suggested that the reason Rondo hasn’t been given an extension is because they don’t know how he’d react to a big contract;
8) Doc questioned the focus of his young players from last season, but didn’t name names;
9) This article came out.
Let’s not pretend that this is a manufactured story. It’s been perhaps the second biggest story of the off-season, after KG’s recovery.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still overblown
I heard a lot more people saying Rondo was late for one playoff game than he was late for two separate playoff games. Danny and Doc sometimes question his maturity but they both frequently talk about how hard it is for someone with his level of experience to do what he does as well as he does. They also, by the way, were questioning Pierce’s maturity when he was 4-5 years older than Rondo is. And, in addition to Rondo, the Celts seemed to offer Perkins and Ray Allen in trades to multiple teams.
The story itself is about Rondo calling a team meeting to try and resolve differences between other players on his team. Maybe the attitude problem lies with the people who blamed him for trying to fix things.
by BballTim on Oct 22, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean people like Doc?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I meant the players
“Rondo insists he had the best of intentions, and yet there’s no mistaking the fact the meeting served to widen a gulf between him and his older teammates.” I don’t see how he’s more responsible for anything negative that came of the meeting than they were.
Also, look at Doc’s comments about the meeting (aside from his stating that he hates player meetings): “A lot of guys said what they had to say, but I don’t know if it helped us or hurt us” and "But to me, in some ways, it was a good thing," Rivers said. "It got some things out there, and it allowed us to move forward over the summer."
by BballTim on Oct 23, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I Did -
I’ve been watching the Celtics for the past 50 years and this is just BS IMO. It used to be that Red would criticize players all the time – that was Red’s way. Now if you say anything remotely non-positive it’s throwing a player under the bus. Ask Tommy about how many times he was criticized by Red – or Larry Seigfreid, or Bill Sharman or Gene Conley or Dave Cowens, Cedric Maxwell or Kevin McHale (“Let him eat Spaghetti”).
1. Who’s reports and how late – again unnamed. As far as I remember he was there for pre-game warmups. Did he have an excuse? Was it a good excuse? Maybe he took a nap and overslept. That nevers happens to anyone else. BTW, I agree that being late is not acceptable. When I played I use to show up for games 2-3 hrs before showup time and I was late once. Had a traffic accident and the police didn’t show up and once they did wouldn’t let me leave.
2. Yup you are right, maybe it was because he carried the team in the first playoff series. Why didn’t we hear just how poor PP and Ray played in those series. They didn’t play up to their standards in either series – maybe they were tired from playing long minutes and getting old.
3. Rondo is 23 not 33 so yeah he not mature maybe he is still learning!
4. Same as 3
5. Multiple reports SUGGESTED – that must be GOSPEL!!!!!!! Ya know what, he probably did – so didn’t KG, Ray, PP, BBD, Perk and everyone else. If they didn’t it would be a shock.
6. Did they trade him? And who were they trying to get? And BTW Perk and Ray were also dangled. Yet, I don’t anyone saying it’s because we didn’t want them!!!!!!! Or did I miss those reports. Or we these assets, like Rajon. Also it wasn’t that long ago that PP was dangled and was much closer to be sent packing. Trades are part of the business of the NBA. Let’s face it, if Danny could improve the team by trading anyone they would be gone. I think Danny is very good at doing what he does and his only goal is to make us better and if we can by trading Rondo it will happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7. Again unnamed media reports!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe they think his agent is asking for TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Much $$$$$$$$$$$$$! And who are they bidding against themselves. That’s rather stupid. If you don’t believe me check out Manny Ramirez and JD Drew. In both cases there was no competition and it netted them several million $$$$. Also, I realize it’s not your money, but whatever they give to Rondo is double due to the luzury tax. Danny may be letting the market set his price. Is that a bad thing? Next off season if Rondo is tendered an offer sheet we can match. How much money did Josh Smith from Atlanta lose by signing his offer sheet with Memphis?
8. It must be Rondo, who else could it be – couldn’t be Giddens, Walker, BBD, and /or Rondo. I can’t speak for everyone, but I know, my focus wasn’t as good as a 23 year old as it was when I was 28 or 38 or 50+. Could this be a natural process that takes place over time? What about your focus, did you mature or were you born as a 50 year old?
All I trying to get at is that so much of this is taken out of context and/or blown way out of portion and then everyone speculates cuz we got all the facts we need. We know what’s going on. don’t we?. It’s always seems that everything is taken negatively, why can’t there be a positive spin put on things. For instance, Doc did say that Rondo needed to mature, but it seems to me he also said that Rondo was more mature now than when he first came to the team and he was maturing. You and I don’t know what is going on. Sports writer don’t know either and everything gets taken as GOSPEL because it’s in the paper, on radio, TV. Heck they said it on ESPN!!~!!!!! Your item 9 – this article came out – I guess that must make it true. All it means is that someone found some sound bites and placed his spin on it. Is the conclusion reach the TRUTH? The only known, confirmed truth is the article came out.
Here’s my prediction/speculation: Rondo will not sign an extension prior to Oct 31. Next off season he will get a 12M offer sheet from NY Knicks that we match!!!!! Rondo will be a Celtics for 10-14 years and have his number retired right next to PP’s #34.
Lastly thing, my speculation is positive not negative!!!!!!!!!!! It feels GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by badax33 on Oct 23, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I can say, is...
If the team didn’t have some concerns, they wouldn’t be so vocal about them.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
But you reported this in a completely incorrect fashion. This was an article about Rondo going thru the motions as a young leader and you blew it up into an article about Rondo’s immaturity. He was TRYING TO HELP THE TEAM FOR GODSAKES. I’m not sure how you didn’t get this in the article. Even if Rondo went about it in the wrong way, you can chalk it up to inexperience, not immaturity. I probably won’t convince you anyway, but you did not catch the spirit of that article at all.
by misterx2day on Oct 22, 2009 11:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
First, reasonable minds can disagree about the "spirit" of the article...
Second, reportedly Rondo was having problems as recently as this year’s playoffs. Why, then, should we assume that all of those issues have magically been resolved? Isn’t it something at least worth monitoring? I’ve met a lot of people, and from experience, most of them don’t do a total 180 in terms of outlook in a matter of months.
Again, if it’s no big deal, then why have Doc and Danny commented so much on Rondo’s attitude? Did you ignore Doc’s earlier comments — partially cited above — that the young guys were messing up ubuntu last season?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously Rondo has had maturity issues, but I think that thats not what this article is about. I believe that Doc and Dannys comments were more about Rondo showing up late, gambling for steals, etc etc. It seems to me that this article was about Rondo learning to be a leader (the title of the article as “Rondo’s learning he must earn leadership role”), not about him ruining ubuntu. He was trying to help, misguided as it was.
by misterx2day on Oct 22, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at another part of the same article, it doesn’t look like he’s really learned.
Rondo had little enthusiasm to discuss the meeting, saying, "It’s hard to play when guys have things on their chest. I think it’s best to get it off there. But obviously Doc thinks otherwise.
by kozlodoev on Oct 22, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you missed the next sentence, where Rondo says:
"…A lot of guys said what they had to say, but I don’t know if it helped us or hurt us."
by Pengaloo on Oct 22, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't that make things worse...
… since Doc said it clearly hurt the team? If Rondo doesn’t recognize that, isn’t that to his detriment?
Or is Doc wrong on this?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doc did not say it clearly hurt the team. Some good came of it as well.
In the last paragraph of the article:
Now, the Celtics coach thinks back to those embittered faces slogging off the team plane and an old point guard stands firm on a personal truth: He hates those team meetings.
"But to me, in some ways, it was a good thing," Rivers said. "It got some things out there, and it allowed us to move forward over the summer.
At least Rondo recognizes that the meeting didn’t go as intended.
by Pengaloo on Oct 22, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I mean to say is that Rondo recognizes that the meeting might have backfired. But maybe some good did come out of that meeting, as Doc mentioned. We can move forward.
by Pengaloo on Oct 22, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As an aside...
What were the young guys complaining about?
For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.
Seriously? The young guys were upset they were being shown a little bit of tough love by three future Hall of Famers? I’m not sure what the “tactics” were, but tough love is something worth “whining” (in the words of one player) about.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember similar problems with the original big three
With Brian Shaw specifically and probably with Reggie Lewis.
Before we won the title there were plenty of articles about how well the big three treated the younger players. KG buying everyone suits, Ray working with Rondo, KG working with Perk/Baby/Powe. The big three clearly went out of their way to foster ubuntu before they won the title. Last year, apparently not so much.
by BballTim on Oct 22, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's one way to see it...
The other way is the way Doc described it: a lot of the young guys had their own agendas. Since Doc was the one who was there, I have to defer to him.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 22, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he didn't.
At least not in the quote you posted.
“I thought we had a lot of different agendas. Guys were looking out for their own situations more than the team situation. That came through all year. It was never anything really big, but it was there all year. You could see it in little things, and I think when you take it as a whole it really had an effect on our season.”
Doesn’t say “I thought the young guys had a lot of different agendas”.
by BballTim on Oct 23, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should know me better than that by now, BBT...
I don’t make things up. Go back to the article I cited:
I thought last year there were so many other things going on – you know, contracts, fanfare, all that. I tell you, I think especially with the young guys, admiration is a difficult beast to deal with. How you handle that on a day-to-day basis is very challenging. I think that was a distraction that as a group we didn’t handle nearly as well as I’d like and as well as we could have.
The “different agendas” thing immediately followed that.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say that you make things up
But you do seem to jump to the occasional conclusion. Doc says “The young guys were distracted” and “We had different agendas” and take it to mean “The young guys were distracted and had different agendas”. I’d be more inclined to make that leap if Doc had said " “The young guys were distracted” and “They had different agendas”.
by BballTim on Oct 23, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
You don’t think the young guys had different agendas, then? Who do you think Doc was talking about? KG?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say that.
Clearly it’s unlikely that none of the young guys had their own agenda. But I don’t think that means that none of the vets ALSO had their own agendas.
You remember all of the preseason articles from Rome and England about the big three going out of their way to get all of the young guys to buy into the system. It may have also happened last year but I saw less of it reported. I mean, Rondo calls a team meeting to work out differences between the big three and some of the other young players. The meeting goes poorly and the vets hold it against Rondo for calling the meeting. This is your idea of ubuntu from Paul and Ray? I don’t see how they’re less to blame than Rondo.
I would have been shocked if such a meeting were necessary during the title season, and more shocked if it had ended like that. Not because of what I’d heard about all of the young players, but because of what I’d heard about how the big three treated them that year. Sure, the young guys are worried about stats and minutes because they need to look at their next contract. But by the same token the big three are no longer aging superstars in search of that elusive ring.
by BballTim on Oct 23, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
article was well done
Especially by the standards of the Blogosphere, this was a good article and well- thought out. I take its premise at face value and suspect there may be some smoke with that fire. Too often, bloggers seem to be looking for hidden meanings and agendas behind every story. Frankly, unless you have day-to-day contact with the athletes, GMs and coaches in the sport you are covering it is nearly impossible to have an accurate view of the intentions of these people. Kudos to Hobbs for the piece.
by lemonade sky on Oct 23, 2009 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, thanks...
Much appreciated.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a pretty story
I’d bet the house that BBD was one of the younger guys who spoke up.
by colincb on Oct 23, 2009 1:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Roy Hobbs your position stinks
I think this article stinks. Weather it be true or false is totally irrelevant. What is important is your continued negative digging at a very sensitive situation that could hurt the team. Every comment that has not been negative you have found fault with.
These young men are growing up in a public forum and are pretty good at there craft. What was your life skills like at the age of twenty five. How good were you at your craft at the age of twenty five. The accuracy is minor what is major is we support the team. As long as no one is doing anything immoral or breaking the law why try and tear them down. I thought we were supposed to be Celtic supporters not CELTIC HATERS.
Do you remember Doc said when KG got hut the team got young real fast. In the past the man to bridge those concerns was non other than JAMES POSEY. Posey was the guy that carried the spirit of UBUNTU to the younger players. With out Posey I am quite sure there was locker room dissension. But can this be laid at the foot of your young players.or should management have a real grasp of who they really have to keep.
What if Rondo decide to not sign a contract. He’s been publicly humiliated by management from his team. He could just say I will play for who ever pays the most money. That does not have to turn so well but where does that leave this team. Rondo is the one player the team can’t afford to loose. And every one wants to piss him off. The article is probable true but how that help.
Some people can’t stand success.
by tyquinton on Oct 23, 2009 2:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bizarre on several levels
Weather [sic] it be true or false is totally irrelevant.
Really? It doesn’t matter if what he’s saying is on point?
What is important is your continued negative digging at a very sensitive situation that could hurt the team.
Does this mean the situation could hurt the team? Or that Roy’s commenting on it could? If it’s the former, sure, I’d love to see the guys get along and do a lot of winning this year. If it’s the latter…suffice it to say I would be curious to hear the train of logic that led you to that claim.
These young men are growing up in a public forum and are pretty good at there craft. What was your life skills like at the age of twenty five. How good were you at your craft at the age of twenty five.
If you’re going to start down this path, I think it only fair that you continue it with follow-ups to the effect of “And what was your job at the age of 25? Were you compensated with exorbitant sums to play a children’s game, knowing full well that along with the many perks of the occupation comes facing public and media scrutiny?” Otherwise, we might be misled into thinking that Roy and Rajon’s situations are a tad more comparable than they actually are.
The accuracy is minor what is major is we support the team.
To the latter clause, agreed. Sure seems to me like most of Roy’s concerns here were derived from his support of the team. He can correct me if I’m wrong on this, but my interpretation was that internal chemistry issues and concerns about the point guard’s head are issues of note because they could affect the team’s ability to win basketball games and thus make us supporters happy.
As long as no one is doing anything immoral or breaking the law why try and tear them down.
Ignoring momentarily what strikes me as a liberal use of “tear them down,” while I’m all for players abiding by the law, I’d like to think the standards are a bit higher than just the penal codes. Basketball-related topics (yes, the point guard’s mentality qualifies) seem fair grounds for criticism of basketball players.
I thought we were supposed to be Celtic supporters not CELTIC HATERS.
Ah, the crux of your argument. Because anyone who finds fault with any Celtic is a “CELTIC HATER”? Come on.
There’s nothing wrong with believing whatever you want, and I’m all for some good ol’-fashioned blind homerism and abounding optimism from time to time. But the idea of attacking a writer for choosing to engage in some more objective, even-keeled commentary – particularly on what is a site for Celtics discussion, not merely team back-patting – seems a little silly to me.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Oct 23, 2009 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Steve.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
So I should avoid writing about “the truth”? You think I’m going to hurt the team?
I guess in a way I wish I had that much power, but honestly, I think Celticsblog only has a very small fraction of the impact of Wojo, Danny Ainge, or Doc.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well no matter what...
I won’t avoid writing about “The Truth”. ;-)
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Writing on the wall
Publicly humiliated? Wow how is that possible for a player who is known to have rubbed people the wrong way on every level he has played at?
It is pretty obvious Celtics management feels that there were serious problems with Rondo in the past and that they expect problems in the future. Otherwise they would not have tried so actively to trade him away this summer.
What we on this blog think about these problems(minor or major) is completely irrelevant. From the way Celticsmanagement handled it last summer it’s pretty obviuos they feel the problems are not some small problems because Rondo is still growing up. I feel it’s not so much about maturing but more about flaws in character.
I for one won’t be surprised if Rondo won’t be a Celtic for much longer. The writing on the wall is there.
So why critisizing Roy for writing down the obvious? The signs are all there. A lot of people on this blog can choose to ignore this that’s fine but that doesn’t change things. Danny and Doc are not happy with Rondo.
by KevinConnor on Oct 23, 2009 3:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Roy Hobbs you suck! ... <3
…
No just kidding, just felt like joining the lynch mob for a second. Didn’t like it.
Honestly, good article.
I really wonder what to think about Rondo at times man. He does a lot of things right, he definitely has the skills, but for some reason he can’t perform on a steady pace. I’d blame it on maturity and quite frankly, I don’t see him ever becoming mature unless he falls on his face a few times first.
Right now, he’s been cocky, and it got him a ring. Imagine that. Winning something while doing it the wrong way. That’s like giving a kid cookies after catching him with his hand in the cookie jar; rewarding for bad behavior will not result in change.
Maybe what Danny did, trying to trade him, would have been a good thing… if it wasn’t for his cockiness. If I were Rondo, I’d be laughing. He’s not dumb. He probably realizes that Danny just tried to put him in his place by feigning attempts at trading him, just to get to him. If so, he failed miserably.
Just thinking out loud here but I think, everything that happened, could have made his arrogance grow even bigger.
I’m afraid. I’m Rondo’s no.1 fan, his game, when he switches on, is insane. But he scares me. He really does.
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
by Kiorrik on Oct 23, 2009 3:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
Do you think it could have had something to do with something as simple as the younger players feeling like they didn’t get enough credit? I feel like during the playoffs, rondo was easily our best performer. Our second most consistent performer was perk. Do you think from rondo’s perspective, he is sick of the team always referred to as the big 3… When he arguably is on that level already? I think he just wanted there to be mutual respect. I worry that rondo will want out since he is in the shadow of those 3 older guys
by LarBrd33 on Oct 23, 2009 6:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Ubuntu
These young players are so incredibly fortunate to be playing with Superstars and having Doc as their coach. They are learning to play the right way and are mentored by the older players. If you ever see a post-game conference with KG and Pierce they heap praise on the younger players and the bench. I didn’t read the article, don’t want to. It’s meaningless at this point. Last year was last year and the problem was injuries, especially KG.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
by TrueGreen on Oct 23, 2009 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems most likely to me.
The gulf was not as big betweeen the big three and perk and rondo from day 1 of the 2007-2008 season. Many people realized this, but not most of the mainstream writers.
by Fan from VT on Oct 23, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also, the “Big 3” get special treatment. They get to take games off… they get to leave preseason games early… they get on the covers of all the magazines. The media always focuses on them. I imagine it’s annoying to be a player like Rondo and just be “the other guy”
by LarBrd33 on Oct 23, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Rondo (or Perk) were the ones with the problem with the big three. I’m guessing that some of the reserves (close to Rajon’s age) had the issues and he was trying to get them voiced and resolved.
by BballTim on Oct 23, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing that seems clear, though...
… is that Rondo rubbed some of his teammates the wrong way. That’s not the biggest deal in the world — lots of teammates aren’t buddies — but it’s something that Doc thought was important enough to address, not only to Rondo 1-on-1, but to the media.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DJ
I have not always been happy with Rondo’s play as a pg, which I mentioned earlier. Let’s not forget that we once had another guard who also rubbed just about everybody the wrong way. His name was Dennis Johnson. It worked out OK for him and the Celts. I think Rondo has lots of improving to do in order to catch up with his “attitude” issues, but he will probably be worth it in the end.
by MurphyHOF on Oct 23, 2009 7:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thank you Roy
…for playing bad cop.
I’m far to much of a fanboy to really call out Rondo but I have to admit that he’s got some learnin’ to do
with that said, the team seems willing to wait and see with Rondo and I can’t argue (too strongly) against that plan
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Oct 23, 2009 7:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bah, blame Woj — the quoted article is first page on Y!Sports right now.
by kozlodoev on Oct 23, 2009 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theres absolutetly no reason to call him out….waah a 22 yr old up and coming star got frustrated about playing with 3 “tough love” veterans and wanted a team meeting…honestly its immature of the “big 3” to come out of the meeting in the way they did
WHO CARES
its a disgrace that rondos “problems” (basiccally nothing) have become news and the organazation that he plays for, (and for chump change by NBA standards) continues to rip him and make his buisness public. its sad, and theres absolutely no reason he should want to stay here once his contract is up
by latin on Oct 23, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BLAH, BLAH....
I love Rondo and that wil neveeeeeer change!….CALL HIM out whatever anyone says publicly I don’t care…. I LOVE RONDO, I LOVE THE CELTICS… anyone else can be traded except Perk and KG …..EVEN PP /RA for me can be traded for the Wade’s of the world as far as im concerned….What is the point of this article anyways and all the other articles out there calling out RR…I don’t get it….all I know is this….
WE DON’t WIN AGAINST the FAKERS in 2008 without RONDO…
Rondo is our MVP in the 1st rnd of the Playoffs last season…not PP, not Ray.
Rondo’s performance sagged off in the second round and its suddenly its his fault the C’s season ended..yes RONDO was blamed…not GArnett’s, not PP nor RA’s very bad performance…
Now Im sad because it does seem that its not just Doc, and Danny but some of the so called die hard fans are also out there mock RONDO…some life!!! :X
"No I’m not KG. Not at all, but I’m Big Baby Glen Davis from LSU, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I’m not the Big Ticket. I’m the Ticket Stub. Don’t count the Ticket Stub out. You might need the ticket to get in the game, but you leave with the ticket stub, because you’ll never forget this game."
by bopna on Oct 23, 2009 8:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lol @ caps
Nice use of them.
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
by Kiorrik on Oct 23, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
inside sources say
that was actually Quisy standing right behind him and blamed it on Rondo
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Oct 23, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just added a link
http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/6/18/912878/does-rondo-have-an-attitude-problem
to my article back in June covering many of the same bases (thus Roy’s title “…Revisited”
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Oct 23, 2009 9:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
See also:
The great debate: http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/6/15/909361/when-should-rondos-contract-be
By the way, looks like I’m going to win that one. Lol. ;-)
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't Rondo need to stay with the team next summer
(at a reasonable rate) for you to win? I mean, if he signs a big contract with the KNicks or something then you can’t really say that waiting was the right move…
by BballTim on Oct 23, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I “win” in that that’s the route the Celtics took.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, to be clear, it wasn't a competitive thing...
… and we were both just advocating positions chosen basically at random.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure, backpeddle now :)
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Oct 23, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not about winning and losing Roy
…unless I’m winning, then its all about winning
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Oct 23, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha. Yeah, I just clarified...
It wasn’t a competition. Although it still looks like I won. ;-)
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of our debate...
The good folks over at RA are discussing something similar today: http://www.redsarmy.com/home/2009/10/the-case-for-and-against-extending-rondo.html
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey mister Hobbs...
You know it’s a great article… when it tops 100 comments ;)
Or is that because the seasons is about to start? :)
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
by Kiorrik on Oct 23, 2009 9:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, in fairness...
… about 75 of those comments are from me. ;-)
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha, let's go for 200 then ;)
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
by Kiorrik on Oct 23, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting topic, excellent ariticle
Roy-
As usual you have thoughtful comments about an interesting topic. This is probably the most important issue other than Kevin’s knee which is a strictly rehab matter. Rondo’s attitude/maturity/leadership/growth is and will be a critical team issue and will impact team dynamics far beyond his individual performance. An appropriate concern for Celtics’ lovers and will continue to be a developing story. I thought your treatment was well thought out and presented.
I would suggest letting your critiques stew in their own juices rather than respond which lends unwarranted credibility to their often untenable positions. Astute observers will measure the validity of your position and theirs, and discount inaccuracy accordingly.
by bballee on Oct 23, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the kind words and comments, bballee
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ughh no more unsubstanitiated rumors
Yeah Boston is concerned about Rondo’s maturity and it’s why they haven’t signed him as of yet…
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Oct 23, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
It’s not so much a rumor as it is speculation. Many writers have come to the same conclusion, but as you note, until Danny comes out and says this directly, we won’t know for sure.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair unsubstantiated speculation.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Oct 23, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let’s hope Rondo and Davis and whoever else felt or feels unwanted can get over that and we can have a good year. There’s no question that KG hurt baby’s feelings last year and I’m sure after a certain amount of abuse that the younger guys feel they’ve had enough. I’d love to see the C’s extend Rondo but somehow I don’t see that happening by october 31. REgardless of what happens this year I think we’re in rebuilding mode next year as we are an aging team. I really like our team right now but the chemistry issues need to be sorted out and that starts at the top with pierce,KG and ALlen
by Red2 on Oct 23, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No doubt about it...
As a preview of coming attractions, check the front page around 2:00pm for some further discussion on BBD.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see one issue with chemistry.
In fact this is the closest team in the league.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Oct 23, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh and I doubt
very seriously there will be any major rebuilding next year but, it could make for some interesting debate.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Oct 23, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
Not according to Doc, and not according to the quotes linked below.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those comments
They have been hashed and rehashed. I discarded it as a very young talented head strong player that will mature with guidance months ago when it was originally discussed.
And never did I think it was cause any chemistry issues.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Oct 23, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the Insider article cited above:
Then he sat in Doc Rivers’ office this past June, the gloom of a failed title defense hanging heavy, as the coach asked: “Do you think your teammates like playing with you?”
Rondo couldn’t imagine any answer other than yes. Maybe teammates didn’t like him, a stoic among extroverts, a kid who questioned damn near everything. But not like playing with him? Hadn’t he started for a champion in his second season, with a pass-first game criticized for not including enough shots? And last season, hadn’t he out-dueled Rookie of the Year Derrick Rose in a tense, seven-game playoff and been voted second-team all-defense?
“I thought so,” was all Rondo could muster.
Rivers didn’t press. He knew the question would get Rondo thinking, analyzing. Because that’s what he does. It’s the secret to his success and, maybe, the reason behind Rivers’ insinuation. No one is harder on Rondo than Rondo. And when the young playmaker rewound the season, he paused on a few sidelong glances and not-quite-heard whispers. Just like that, the playground ghosts were back. Rondo had chalked up the disappointing season to complacency after a title or capitulation following Kevin Garnett’s knee injury. He never imagined that anyone would see him as the problem. “That,” he says, “was like a stab in the back.”
It would be tricky even if he weren’t wondering who was and wasn’t with him. Asked about it, Rondo’s already rigid jaw tightens. Then: “We don’t have to be best buddies to win a championship.”
His game-day ritual includes five showers and a precise pretip schedule for brushing his teeth, putting on his socks, peeing and tucking a small jar of Carmex into a sock.
The obsessiveness shows most, though, after he commits some on-court blunder. “He doesn’t want to be bothered, because he’s processing what he did wrong,” Bibby says. “By the time you rip him, he’s figured it out.” Problem is, in the NBA three plays have transpired during the processing, three plays during which Rondo is in his own penalty box and Boston is playing a man down. “You’re playing mad,” Rivers has told him more than once. “Get past mad. It’s killing you, and that’s killing us.”
(Hat tip to BudweiserCeltic.)
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 23, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Article, Roy BUT
as I said above, I do believe a lot of the perceived issues with Rondo is due to the lack of proper management of this situation by Celtics brass.
Too many mixed messages all around – the thing I took away from the original article was that Rondo was calling a team meeting and the vets had some issue with the result. First and foremost, they keep saying they want Rondo to be a leader. But what it sounds like is they they want Rondo to be a leader – as long as he defers to the Big Three. Thats a problem.
Another thing in the article that made me question the fairness to Rondo, was Doc’s immediate reaction to him calling it. Before it even started, the coach is saying “Its gonna be a terrible meeting.” Regardless of Doc’s personal experience with player meetings, don’t doom the kid the minute he tries to assert himself – which is what you claim to have wanted in the first place. Now, I’m not saying Doc should have patted him on the back and gave him a gold star, but let the meeting play out before you write it off as a negative.
Then there’s the whole back & forth of Rondo’s worth to the Celts. First the put him in trade talks and publicly criticize him, the next minute they’re singing his praises and calling him the future of the franchise. Make up your mind. Again, how can you expect a guy to be a leader when he’s not sure of his place in the team? Is he expendable or is the future of the franchise?
Just seems like Rondo can’t win for losing….
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
by RJ87 on Oct 23, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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