Should the Celtics trade Tony Allen for a stronger, bigger, defending small forward?

by leothetiger on Oct 24, 2009 12:38 PM EDT Comment 32 comments

I think that is the type of player the Celtics roster needs and is the type of player Danny Ainge needs to trade TA for.

The reason I think it would be great if the C's could trade Allen and in return obtain a bigger, stronger and longer defensive specialist small forward is because we a need such a player on the bench who can come in for spot duty and defend strong, long opposing small forwards like Lebron James etc.

Pierce can do the job since he has the length and size, but if he gets into foul trouble, is injured or fatigued etc. it sure would be nice to have a long, strong defending small forward on the bench waiting to come in.

Currently we do not have a player on the bench who can do the job properly.

Tony Allen does not have the strength or length to defend against longer, stronger small forwards like Lebron.

Daniels who has the length to do some spot duty defending against players like Lebron, lacks the bulk and strength to do the job properly.

I think Walker can be the type of player ( when he returns from his knee surgery) to guard big, long strong small forwards like Lebron, since he is 6'6" and has the strength, but with his knee problems I do not want to just count on him to do the job and would feel better if we had another player on the roster who could be called on to do the job also.

Finding a long, strong defending small forward in exchange fot TA's contract should not be all that hard since the player does not have to be a great overall player, for example he does not have to be able to score a lick as long as he can bang and defend well against opposing long, strong small forwards.

Basically a younger version of Bruce Bowen is the type of player the C's should seek to trade TA for , he was not much of a scorer but a great defender against strong, long small forwards

Does anybody agree with me that the Celtics need to acquire such a player for their bench and that they should trade TA in order to obtain such a player ?

If so what players are available that have similar contracts with TA that would allow the C's to make such a trade?

Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.

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i would trade tony allen

for a waterlogged baseball.

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by stingy d on Oct 24, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but also

you need to pause about fifteen times for saying long and strong every 3 sentences.

twitter.com/aighttho
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by stingy d on Oct 24, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For get about it. The only falue TA has is his expireing contract. Not playing ability.

by tyquinton on Oct 24, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No doubt about it...

I think 98% of this blog, and the entire Celtics front office, would trade Tony Allen for just about any serviceable player at this point, regardless of position.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 24, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A few realistic possibilities... I think

TA, Scal, and probably Sheldon Williams are all going to become very expendable once the trade deadline gets closer. And yes, it would be great to turn them into a good perimeter defender, but I also think we could use another 7-footer to absorb fouls when we face Shaq and/or Dwight in the playoffs.

I don’t know anything about contracts and how the money would work out, but I’m guessing these would be realistic guys to target for some combo of TA, Scal, Sheldon, and maybe Givens:

Atlanta: Maurice Evans and Jason Collins
LA Clippers: Mardy Collins and Brian Skinner
New Jersey: Trenton Hassell and Sean Williams
Milwaukee: Mbah a Moute and Francisco Elson
Sacramento: Nocioni and maybe Sergio Rodriguez

by InTheFace on Oct 24, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think the Atlanta, LA, or Milwaukee ones would have a shot; there’s really not much incentive for the teams involved.

The Sacramento one might make sense without Sergio as a pure salary dump. The New Jersey one is basically expiring contracts for expiring contracts, but if we threw in cash or a pick, they might go for it.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 24, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you the C's could use another 7 footer...

Though I would like to see the C’s trade Allen for a longer, stronger defending small forward, I have been stating many times in the past how I would also like the C’s to trade Scalabrine for a back up legit 7 foot center.

Again no body special, just some one in the mold of a PJ Brown or Scott Pollard who we can get for the cheap, but who can bang and play physical against Shaq & Howard, play some low post defense and rebound
.
I believe considering Garnets knee, Perks shoulder and Rasheeds age having another legit big man, preferably a legit 7 footer would be vital insurance heading into the season and playoffs and a smart roster move for the C’s to pursue..

by leothetiger on Oct 24, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree also that getting another legit center on the bench......

in exchange for Scalabrine would be a great move by the C’s since it would add more big man insurance on the bench.

Certainly if we trade Scals expiring contract worth $3.4 million we can find a fairly decent back up center.

We do not need a allstar, just a center who can muscle Shaq and Howard, be bale to rebound, block shots and defend the post.

Then we can always trade TA to find the long, strong defending small forward the C’s could use on the bench, though I think Walker can help us alot in that role when he returns in a month .

by fordescort on Oct 25, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is what I want to know.....

If all we want is a big guy who can absorb fouls, what’s wrong with Sheldon Williams? He’s 6’9" with a 7’3" wingspan. For what you claim you want in a 3rd big, I think he should do fine, and I think that’s what Doc and Danny are going with.

by Tai on Oct 25, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shelden..........

Was a great pick up for the C’s and I liked the signing very much.

I liked it because Shelden is a taller , longer version of Powe and is a better shot blocker, low post defender and possible re bounder then Powe simply due to the fact he is a taller, longer player than Powe.

Though Shelden can perform spot duty at center and has done so in his career he is not a legit center, is not 7’ tall and does not have the length or bulk to go up against the longer, bigger, heavy duty Centers like Shaq and Howard.

Yea Shelden could absorb fouls against Shaq and Howard, but he would not be able to defend them in the low post or rebound effectivelly against them, since he is a overall smaller player.

I love Shelden as a power forward and as a spot duty center against smaller centers in the NBA who do not have great size or length , but not against the bigger, taller ones like Shaq and Howard.

Let me be clear we are deep in the center position with Perk and Rasheed if though they both stay healthy.
But what happens if any one of them gets hurt, then we are not and would have no legit center on the bench and can kiss our banner 18 hopes away.

I see no problem in getting another 3rd string center on the bench as insurance is such a scenario takes place.
I also see no problem and think it is wise to trade Scal who gives us just outside shooting (which we have plenty of) no rebounding, no shot blocking, no low post defense, no length and no bulk and trading him for a legit 7ft. center who can give us all that and effectively match up in size with Shaq and Howard .

Again we do not need a allstar center, just someone who is long and tall and who can rebound, defend the low post and block shots.
Some one like PJ Brown would be great , he was acquired cheaply money wise, but did all the above for us and was a great signing that helped us win a title.

With Scals expiring 3.4 million dollar contract (thats not chump change) Danny should be able to find a good back up center to trade for if he and Doc want to make such a move.

I at least hope they do.

by fordescort on Oct 25, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then what about BBD?

I don’t know if he’s as tall as Shelden, but he’s bigger than him, and he’s actually been playing spot up minutes in center.

Like I said, I think if needed, BBD and Shelden will be our depth at center if necessary, and I’m ok with that.

by Tai on Oct 25, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baby...

is not a legit center either.

Though he has the strength of a center he does not have the height or arm wing span length of a center, which is proved by the fact he is not a good rebounder or shot blocker.
What good is having Baby playing center if he can not block shots or rebound effectively.

He can perform spot duty at center and has over the last few years but he does not have the height to match up against taller centers like Howard, Shaq, Gasol etc.

Also Baby is actually shorter than Williams, because though both are listed as 6’9" Baby’s actual height is 6"8"
(pay attention to them when they are standing next to each other on the court).

Again Bbay just like Williams can perform as a spot duty back up center against smaller centers in the NBA, but if a injury takes place to Rasheed or Perk I for one would love to have a back up legit center with size on the bench.

Again we do not need a allstar back up center, a PJ Brown or Scott Pollard type player who has length, can block shots, rebound and be able to match up with the bigger taller centers in the NBA would be perfect and affordable.

The main point I think I am trying to make I guess is why go 1/2 ass and count on having undersized Shelden and Baby as your 3rd string centers when Danny can easily get a decent true back up center by trading Scal (who we do not really need) and his 3.4 million expiring contract.

by fordescort on Oct 25, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the nocioni deal is one that i have been interested in all summer. as much as i like scalabrine i think TA and scal for nocioni, would be a fitting deal. the kings oculd use those expiring contracts and lets face it they have no legitamate plan for nocioni and he hardly fits into their system, he would be the perfect 3 of the bench to sub for peirce and this would allow quisy to play more 1 and 2.

by Cran on Oct 24, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Question?

How good of a defender and offensive player is Nocioni?
What is the size of his contract this year?
How many more years left on his contract?

by fordescort on Oct 24, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

over the course of his career, he has averaged about 25 minutes per game, and has about a 12 point average, about 5 boards a game, shoots 81% for free throws, about 43% for feild goals and about 37% from the 3. he is a long player with decent size, listed at 6-7 and about 225 lbs, hes 29 so about in his prime. he is entering the tird year in his $37.5 million contract for 5 years, hes sloted to make about 7 million this year. so he has 3 years left on his contract, and between scal and TA we compinsate for a bit over 6 million. so we would have to add a few thousand to an already deep luxery tax, but in the long run i think itd definatly be worth it. And although he has been noted more for offence then defence throughout his career, he has been in primarily offensive systems, and the celtics would be able to talk advantage of his size, and abilty to turn him into a good defnder.

by Cran on Oct 24, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did not know Nocioni had such a big contract.....

I at least personally think we would be giving away to much in the form of Scal and TA to get him.
Giving away both Scal and TA would then not leave us with any flexibility to trade for a 3rd string legit 7 ft. back up center which I think the team really needs.

I would rather see the C’s trade TA straight up for a less costly longer defending small forward which would then allow us to retain Scalabrine in order to trade him for a 3rd string legit back up center .

Again I think trading for Nocioni would be a nice pick up but would be to expensive and would not allow us to get a back up center.
I think we need to trade for a more budget friendly player such as a Corey Brewer (he makes 2.9 million only) that KGMN recommends below would be a wiser move.

by fordescort on Oct 25, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes C's must trade Tony Allen and also Scalabrine to try to improve the club.

Great post leothetiger.
The Celtics do need a tall, strong defending small forward who can defend Lebron.

Having such a player will be vital in the playoffs especially if Lebron starts going on a roll and Pierce gets in foul trouble or is injured etc.

Great point also intheface about the need for the C’s to obtain a 7 foot back up center.

We only have 2 legit centers on the roster that being Perk and Rasheed and since
Big Baby and Williams are power forwards and undersized to properly play the position, we need a 3rd string center than can defend and rebound.

I believe just like in baseball you can never have enough pitching depth, in basketball you can never have enough bench depth.

If we can upgrade the team by trading Scal and Allen, then the C’s should go for it ASAP.

by fordescort on Oct 24, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you thinking of Corey Brewer?

by KGMN on Oct 24, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes he would do fine......

He long, strong and a pretty good defender.

Whats he making this year and how many years left on his contract?

by fordescort on Oct 24, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1 year left, 2.9 mil.

by KGMN on Oct 24, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he's a great defender, not a pretty good one.

He’s a specialist.

by KGMN on Oct 24, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Problem here is

NO ONE WANTS ALLEN, not even the team he’s on.

Haha, he’s starting to get a radioactive glow.

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Oct 24, 2009 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

True but..........

Yes nobody wants Tony Allen the basketball player since he is limited talent wise, but what teams will want is Tony Allens expiring contract which is worth about 2.3 million I think.

That contract will be worth alot to teams who will be seeking to dump salary for next year.

I think Danny will find some team who will want to trade for TA eventually, but it will not happen until the trade deadline.

That’s ok with me because I think better players will become available at that time then if we were trading TA at this time so early in the season.

by fordescort on Oct 24, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure in February...

My Names!!!

Scal, Tony and Walker or Giddens for…

1) JEFF GREEN!!!!
2) Rudy Gay!!!
3) Gerald Wallace!!!
4) Travis Outlaw
5) Kelenna Azubike
6) Ryan Gomes
7) Corey Brewer
8) Thabo Sefolosha
9) Jared Dudley
10) Raja Bell

by Hanzinho on Oct 25, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Those would all be good players...

… but all are worth more than Tony/Scal/Giddens.

(Except maybe Raja Bell, who is out for four months.)

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 25, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trading tony allen ??

i think if walker can come back healthy he can be a good defensive foward but will his knees allow him to be quick enough to gaurd a guy like lebron or rashard lewis that,s why i think its a no brainer for them to go out and a guy like noccioni we did have a guy like that his name was leon but does,nt he play for the cavs now oh yeah thats right …..

by lohaus#54 on Oct 25, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

Walker might just be the defnsive stopper we need against bigger , longer small forwards like Lebron.
I love the kids toughness and physical build.
Lets hope he comes back fully healthy and prove to us he can do the job.

I agree also that the C’s shouldn’t take any chances and just count on Walker to be our defensive stopper against big, long small forwards, since we do not know how his knees will hold up.

Their is no reason why the Celtics can not go out and get a bargain basement budget player as a 3rd string backup small forward behind Walker for insurance.
After all one of the main purpose of 3rd string bench players on any NBA roster from spots 10-15 is to be their in case injury strikes the first 10 main rotation players.

by fordescort on Oct 25, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree we need another SF

I agree with the topic-poster that we need another SF whose stronger, bigger,defender, not offensive minded, for spot duty.

I disagree with some of those who have commented mentioning we need some big man insurance, to take on some fouls during games. I mean between our big guys(KG, Sheed, Perk, BBD, Sheldon) thats 30 fouls to spare and if you throw in Scal as a big thats 36 fouls. I’m not against bringing in another big, but i think the focus should be put towards brining in a wing.

With TA’s contract at around $2.5 and Scal’s at around $3.4 these are a few of the equal (in my opinion) value trade options that are possible, and that i think would benefit the C’s:

When i heard, strong, bigger, defending, spot duty, small forward i thought of a guy who has Championship experience, a veteran, strong/defending wing, who won’t get any playing time with the team he is on now. That guy is none other than 3 time NBA champion……..Devean George!

Devean George about -$1.6….(32 yrs old,def. minded, championship exp, 6’9 235)
Jarvis Hayes about———$2.06..(28 yrs old, solid, some offensive skills, 6’8 228)
Trenton Hassell about—-$4.3….(30 yrs old decent defender, solid player)
Ricky Davis about -——-$2.4….(bring him back as a 30 yr old in spot minutes)
Dorrell Wright about———$2.8….(not what Pat Riley thought. Would be good athletic fit)
(at 6’9 only 23yrs old, a young long athletic defender)
for those who want another big what about trading for Kurt Thomas—$3.8
Trade Scal for Kurt Thomas would Milwaukee do it??

My favorites out of this group of who to bring in, in order are:
       Devean George
       Dorell Wright
       Trenton Hassell
       Jarvis Hayes
       Ricky Davis
what do you think?

by fanofgreen on Oct 25, 2009 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

disregard

Disregard the lines going through Devean George and Jarvis Hayes lines

by fanofgreen on Oct 25, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hummmmmmm. Let me think long and hard about this one???? OF COURSE!!!!!!!

by bigjohnson34st on Oct 26, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting names.............

I would not mind a Devan George or Dorrel Wright trade for Tony Allen.
Both are affordable, big, strong and long small forwards that can defend well and would be great coming off the C’s bench for spot duty defensive assignments.

We could then use Scal’s 3.5 million contract to find and a legit 7 footer.
Kurt Thomas is a undersized center at 6"9’ and (at least I think we do) need a legit 7 foot center with length and legit shot blocking and rebounding ability.

by fordescort on Oct 26, 2009 9:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm still a T.A. apologist

I still think he may be the best on-the-ball defender the team has. I don’t think he’ll play tons, but he’s definitely nice insurance to have if any wing players go down. Compared to other team’s 11th men, T.A. isn’t bad to have around.

by MajorAppleFlight on Oct 27, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs