LA Lakers Previews
by Jeff Clark on Oct 29, 2009 8:08 PM EDT
in NBA Previews
33 comments
We've spent a lot of time focusing on the Cavs, but the Lakers are the true rivals and they currently have what we want back, the title.
Doing Our Part: Previewing the Defending Champion Lakers - Silver Screen and Roll
The versatility, in large part, goes back to the Lakers strengths in the post. Bynum and Gasol are obvious post threats. However, Odom and Artest can also be very effective in the post, and Kobe isn't too shabby. This allows for a greater range of options, both in terms of lineups and offensive sets, regarding who anchors the triangle in the post, and how the triangle forms around him. Defensively, guys like Artest and Odom can easily guard three different positions, meaning that whether we're talking about a big, strong Small Forward like LeBron James, or a long, lanky Power Forward who likes to shoot from outside like Dirk Nowitzki or Rasheed Wallace, the Lakers have options in matching up with them defensively.
Forum Blue And Gold " TrueHoop Network 2009-10 Season Preview: The Lakers
God, it is good to be hated again. It’s an oddly comforting thing for Lakers fans when the entire world seems to be passionately wishing for your team to fail, hoping for an earthquake that will break off Los Angeles and dump it in the ocean so that they don’t have to hear about the Lakers again. When the Lakers are hated, you know they are good. And they are good — very good. Not only did they win the NBA title, they brought back virtually every piece of that team, and made a move to bring in a unique talent (and personality) at another spot. On paper they should be a better team this year — Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant are back to lead, with a more mature supporting cast. But they also will be a different team.
NBAtipoff: 2009/10 Los Angeles Lakers Season Preview
Bynum's Health. As healthy as Bynum may say he is now, his health will always be in question. Can he maintain a full healthy year? If so, then bring it on, Drew. If not, then the Lakers are a little slim up front. That won't be good enough to win the Larry O'Brien trophy.
Now, back to Ron Artest. Yes, the guy can be a distraction... but it all comes down to if you think that LA can withstand that. Two years ago, no way on earth. Now? I think so. Coming off a title, with a veteran presence and Phil Jackson, the Lakers are well positioned to incorporate Artest. The pluses that Ron-ron brings outweigh the negatives.
In Hoops Addict’s Season Preview last year, I used this space to wax poetic about how the Lakers’ greatest strength was that they have Kobe Bryant and every other team does not. While that obviously remains true, that kind of over-simplified analysis does a disservice to the Lakers’ true core competency.
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I would be truly happy....
…If this awful horrible “triangle” talk completely disappeared from the Lakers vernacular. I hate it. OHHHH do I hate it. The Lakers are in puppy-dog-love with the “Triangle”. I get it. No one talks about the Celtics defensive schemes, right? Why is it always triangle this and triangle that. As I type this I want to pick up my laptop and launch it against the wall and scream, “%$#@ You Triangle” at the pieces.
I have been boiling over this for a while now. Phil, please, figure out someplace else to stick the triangle.
by stevenfuzz on Oct 29, 2009 8:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually
that is not true. To answer your question, YES! people do talk about the Celtic’s defensive schemes. That is what helped them win the title. That is all everyone talks about when it comes to the Celtics. If that wasn’t the case then Tom Thibodeau wouldn’t be as popular as he is. You have to respect what he did. Tex Winters’ Triangle has been a big part of 10 titles so that is something needs to be mentioned.
by IH8URTEAM on Oct 30, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definition of the "Triangle"
THREE different ways to get the ball to Kobe!
When Phil was in Chicago, the Triangle stood for three different ways to get the ball to Jordan.
by Title 18 on Oct 30, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I didn’t even know they run the Triangle in Cleveland……………..makes sense now.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Oct 30, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relax man
Same thing could be said about the tenacity about the Celtics. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “oh, the Celtics commitment to defense is astounding.” Seriously, those people need to be quiet.
People talk about the triangle because it’s a great offense and Phil Jackson knows it perfectly. Just like how Bill Walsh used the West Coast offense with the 49ers, it’s the same thing. And since Phil Jackson is the greatest coach ever, people will talk about what he uses offensively.
The Celtics say they’re mean, lean and green. I’m personally sick and tired of it. They have to be great at defense because they’re offense consists of basically running of screens and finding the open guy, or the pic and roll (which I might say is very effective with Rasheed or KG).
But the triangle, it’s a thing of beauty. You have to be incredibly smart to run it. One person out of the triangle, and it’s done for. That’s why the triangle is so heavily spoken about.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Oct 29, 2009 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
except
you should note that
a) Sam Barry ‘invented’ the triangle offense back in the 50s and Jackson’s assistant, Tex Winter probably should get the lions share of credit for modernizing it around first Jordan and later Bryant.
b) its fragile – it breaks down easily and has only had its greatest success when it has a Jordan or Bryant involved to bail things out.
So … is it really symptomatic of a great coach? Or the presence of two of the best players of the modern age (Jordan being arguably the greatest such)?
Re: The Celtics team defense (not sure if it has a distinct name – its Thibodeau’s baby) – its easily as sophisticated as the triangle offense and similarly requires commitment to it and intelligence on the part of the players. But its a lot less fragile because its all about built-in help.
Aside from the pick & roll, the Celtic’s offense includes a healthy dose of classic transition game triggered by the defense.
by mmmmm on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fragile?
‘93-’94 Bulls lose Jordan, arguably the greatest player of all time after their first threepeat. It’s worth nothing more than a loss of two wins to the Bulls next season and they barely miss out on going to the Finals in a nail-biter series to the Knicks.
‘04-’05 Lakers are a disaster with Phil gone. Lakers make one of the great head-scratching decisions of the decade and trade Caron Butler for Kwame Brown. Lakers win eleven more games in ‘05-’06 despite losing arguably their second-best player.
Does the triangle take discipline? Certainly. It’s why attempts to implement it elsewhere (such as Cleamons in Dallas) fail because teams aren’t fully devoted to it. But if you think a coach of Phil’s stature doesn’t know how to work his offensive system and adapt his team to it, then you’re out of your mind.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
by Ben R on Oct 30, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the triangle
It’s definitely a fine offense to run, particularly if you don’t have a quick, gifted penetrating, creative point-guard – which the Lakers don’t. But they certainly have a lot of talent for other positions.
I figure the Celtics and the Lakers are the top two teams. Period. Whichever one is healthiest at the end of the playoffs will be the champion.
by no kidding on Oct 29, 2009 9:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And when I say “healthiest”, that includes mental health (see: Ron Artest).
by no kidding on Oct 29, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well in all fairness
you could include Sheed in that to.
by IH8URTEAM on Oct 30, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be the Lakers...
because it’ll be so fun to watch the Cs crush them in the Finals. Flashy zen offense versus rock-solid ubuntu defense — defense will win every time. Now that KG is healthy, and Sheed and Quisy are in the fold, LA’s gotta be quaking in their little yellow boots… revenge is gonna be so sweet!
The Lakers are a terrific rival, and part of that is because of the glitz, part of it is that they are punks (remember Odom putting the NFL moves on Ray Allen?), and part of it is that they are the Unstoppable Force to our Immovable Object.
I say, bring ’em on! To you Lakers fans…have a great season, and as The Prisoner said:
“Be seeing you.”
by Hal Jordan on Oct 29, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hahahahaha
This is great. I am the biggest laker fan there can be, but many of us HATE Sasha Vujacic. Can’t stand the guy. But if he makes his shots, I’ll deal with him.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Oct 29, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes the Lakers are a terriffic rival
But sometimes it is difficult to talk about something other than basketball. I am just getting into basketball and appreciate both teams and I love the rivalry. But when things like “punks” it really takes away from good debates. I mean really, both teams have ammunition like showing clips of Big Baby Crying or showing You tube clips of Sheed imploding or KG punking on and selectively choosing Euros and smaller players to “punk”. Recently when Shaq knocked KG down, I did not see any of that.
By the way, what do you mean by “revenge is gonna be so sweet?” If any team that needs to look for revenge is the Lakers. They are the ones who got a beat down by the Celtics in the Finals. No sure what you mean by that.
by IH8URTEAM on Oct 30, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dig the whole picture...
and that includes personalities, players’ styles and moments like Sasha’s meltdown (or Baby’s meltdown, for that matter). Like it or not, it’s all part of the action — and in this humble commenter’s opinion, an enjoyable part of the experience of being a fan of Basketball. Maybe I’ve been brainwashed by Heinsohn, but if breathing the Green oxygen is wrong, then I don’t wanna be right. Of course, X’s and O’s are the meat and potatoes of the game, and also a part of the game that I enjoy along with the athletic achievements of these super-talented players that grace the hardwood. If you’re so inclined to write solely about the strategies, matchups and the like, there’s nothing to prevent you from doing so.
As far as revenge being sweet… try to find someone who watched last season’s Christmas game who doesn’t want the Celts to devastate and demoralize the Lakers this season.
by Hal Jordan on Oct 30, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The picture was funny no doubt
The whole issue has nothing to do with dislike because everyone has a choice on how to express themselves. But, like you said, “Like it or not” it does deminish someone’s argument as to why you think your team is better. Trash talking is one thing but saying something like, “Celtics are better because the Lakers are Punks” is hardly an argument. It has nothing to so with X’s and O’s but with trying to make a valid point with comments that dimish that point of view.
btw..thxn for clearing that up. it makes sense.
by IH8URTEAM on Oct 30, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "punks" comment
referred to one of the reasons why I think that this rivalry is so fun to watch, not why the C’s are better than the Lakers.
I actually agree with you that it’s pointless to use those personality-based arguments about who’s the better basketball team, and I was not doing so in my post.
by Hal Jordan on Oct 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Celtics/Lakers match up
If you want to see the game live, www.OptionIt.com has options to the Jan. 31, 2010 game. Options allow you to reserve now, decide later. The site also has options to potential post season games where maybe the two teams will meet again!
by ntaylo on Oct 29, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL....
Hey Hal Jordan the Sasha Vujacic pic is GREAT, lol…see if you can post the drive where Ray Allen nearly broke Sasha’s ankles to score the basket back late in game 4 of the NBA finals 2007-2008.
Now THAT was a classic.
by Celtics18and19 on Oct 30, 2009 6:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree... I loved it then and I love it now.
Couldn’t figure out how to post a vid here, but here’s the link:
http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/10/30/1107736/its-time-to-dance-ray-gets-all
by Hal Jordan on Oct 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lakers VS Celtics
The C’s are Mentally tougher than the Lakers. As great an offensive team as they are, will they have the Defensive fortitude to match the Celtics?
Yes Artest is talented, but I don’t believe he will be able to make much difference. As much as he has tried to get in Paul Pierce’s head in the past (especially in the past Pacers-Celtics Series), P2 is used to him and can defeat him.
I was reminded once again when Boston beat Cleveland on Tuesday night that P2 has a nack for doing enough to ensure that the C’s are successful (23 pts, 11 rebounds). And he did this against Lebron, one of the top defenders in the league.
P2 did not stop Lebron, but neither did Lebron stop him.
The thing with Artest is that his antics ALWAYS border on him getting a Tech or getting tossed from the game. If Phil Jackson and Kobe can reel him in, then it will help the Lakers (a little).
And as great as Kobe is, will he be able to get enough open looks at the basket vs the C’s this year? He didn’t get many vs the C’s back in the 2007-2008 finals (nor in 2008-2009 for that matter). We have a few more weapons to use against him now (Marquis Daniels, Tony Allen, P2, Ray Allen).
Even a player like Kobe can be slowed down. Even the great Michael Jordan said that Joe Dumars always played tough defense against him.
And as long as Tony Allen is healthy, he has given Kobe problems before.
Kobe’s the heart and soul of the Lakers. Once the C’s muffle his production, they will beat them.
I agree with IH8URTEAM…this is a terrific rivalry. I hope both teams are healthy when they meet in the regular season and finals later this year. Then the Celtics can reclaim their rightful place of World Champions.
by Celtics18and19 on Oct 30, 2009 7:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, they're not
They’re not mentally tougher. I’ll say they’re a physical team, but the Lakers have learned a lot from the 08 finals.
You say Kobe will not get enough open looks vs the C’s? I completely disagree. The Lakers go down low to the post early in the game. Bynum and Gasol will be fed early in the first and second quarters. If you double them, someone is going to be open, and in the triangle offense, Phil Jackson likes to place Kobe in a position to where his man would have to double.
And honestly, the Celtic’s will have to double Gasol or Bynum. Gasol is too smart and can use either hand to score, and Bynum is taller than Perkins and has also leaned up over the summer. So he’s good to go.
Then you got Lamar Odom coming off the bench who can run the break when he grabs a rebound. Kobe can trail in transition to get a shot.
And now Kobe is looking to post up more often. And since no one in the NBA can front the post due to defensive 3 seconds, he will surely get the ball down low. Plus, Phil Jackson will post up Artest who will be able to be effective down low, either by scoring or drawing fouls or drawing a double team. He’s learning the offense quickly, much quicker than Trevor did.
Lakers are a very intelligent team, and it translates to both sides of the ball.
Celtics Lakers rivalry is the second greatest rivalry in America, behind North Carolina-Duke rivalry.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Oct 30, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Respectfully Disagree....
If the Lakers think they can go down low early, they are mistaken…here’s why:
-If they go to Gasol, then either KG or Sheed will defend. Either one locks up Gasol, as great a player as he is.
-If they go to Bynum, then an improved Perkules (Like that, huh?) will slow him down or neutralize him. Perk has already demonstrated this with Bynum, and he recently slowed down Shaq. Shaq is WAAAAY better than Bynum, wouldn’t you agree? And Perk has played well against Dwight.
Neither Gasol or Bynum need a double-team.
And Rondo will be as active as EVER, clogging passing lanes and being his disruptive self.
And Artest is a talented player, but is not the greatest post threat. Place either P2 or Marquis Daniels on him.
If Marquis is in game, let’s see D Fish try to deal with him in the post. And if Artest tries either P2 or Marquis he will find himself with foul troubles.
And if Kobe is so great down low, why didn’t he try it before against the C’s?
And yes Lamar Odom is talented as well. I like Lamar, but if he tries fancy ball-handling against the C’s he will get the ball taken from him (Rondo, Ray Allen, P2, Eddie, Marquis, Tony Allen). He’s good, but ain’t that good.
Yes the Lakers are the most talented OFFENSIVE team right now, but the Celtics are improved Offensively and the best Defensively. Defense wins championships.
Defense wins games (And Championships)!
by Celtics18and19 on Oct 30, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and one more thing:
Who will the Lakers put on Sheed if (once) he lines up behind the three point line?
Imagine a line up of Sheed, KG, P2, Ray Allen, Eddie House. You would have FOUR Legit 3-pt threats on the floor, and leave either KG (or Perk if he is in) down low with either Gasol, Odom, or Bynum in one on one coverage. Dangerous for the Lakers. I like Bynum, but I wouldn’t leave him alone on either Sheed or KG.
Perk has improved Offensively as well. So the Lakers have to account for him.
Both teams here are extremely talented and versatile. But I must give the nod to the C’s. More Defensive Intensity and Intimidation.
Defense wins games (And Championships)!
by Celtics18and19 on Oct 30, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing
The whole “Defensive intimidation” is a bit of an overstatement. The Lakers are not a timid team. Last year, they stood up to them to pull out a victory without Bynum. KG fouled out with 5 minutes left and Gasol did a number on Perkins to score with ease.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Oct 30, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my mistake
I meant A.C. Green. Horace Grant played in 2001.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Oct 30, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is where our debate will lie then.....
I say that Bynum and Gasol, if left to be singly defended, will score without a double team.
You seem to think that KG or Perkins will be fine.
I think Artest and Kobe can post up against Pierce and Allen. You seem to think they’re not talented enough to do that.
You think Gasol will be pushed around. Myself and other people seem to think he did well against Dwight Howard in the finals. (He’s better than Shaq, wouldn’t you agree?)
You think no Laker can guard Rasheed when he’s bombing three’s. I think Lamar Odom is quick enough and tall enough to guard Rasheed. If Horace Grant could do it to a younger Rasheed in the 2000 WCF, then I’m sure LO can take an older Rasheed.
The only thing I can agree with is that Rondo is your clear, cut advantage. But I’d be willing to say that Shannon Brown can contain (not stop) him.
FEB 18 is they day they meet. We’ll see……
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Oct 30, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my mistake
I meant A.C. Green. Not Horace Grant.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Oct 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Debate!
Both the Celtics and the Lakers are very evenly matched.
I was looking at Micheal Wilbon’s newspaper article here in a local paper about the upcoming NBA Season. He gave the Lakers and the Celtics both 18 out of 20 stars…but the rating I believed to be MOST important was Defense..he gave the Celtics 5 out of 5 rating, and gave the Lakers 3 out of 5. Offensively, the Lakers were 5 for 5, Celtics 4 for 5. I was curious as to why the Lakers bench was rated better than Boston’s, though (5 for 5, vice Boston’s 4 for 5).
This early rating reminds me so much of how the Lakers and Boston were rated back in 2007-2008. Nearly everyone outside of Boston believed that the “Laker Offensive Train” would come rumbling right through Boston and enable them to win it all. That train derailed twice that season against Boston, and derailed in 6 games in the Finals.
The reason? Defense. Even with the improvements to the Lakers, unless they can sustain a defensive effort to match Boston, then they will lose. It just seems like Destiny.
And even with the upgrades in LA, I still believe that Boston is deeper and more versatile. Once we get Glen Davis back, we will be at least 9-10 deep. After Lamar Odom, LA drops off a little for their bench.
Sure LA swept Boston last year. Both were close (even though I think D Fisher mugged Ray Allen at the end of the game in Boston).
And yes Lamar can guard Sheed at the three line, but what about if Sheed posts up? What about KG? Perk?
And I wouldn’t say (yet) that Dwight is better than Shaq….supposedly, Dwight H is the reason why the Cavs met their end last year, and Shaq is supposed to counter that. During the regular season games, Shaq battled Dwight to nearly a standstill.
So far Kendrick Perkins has demonstrated that he can (and Does) slow down and even neutralize most Bigs he encounters. He is under-rated. He has done this to Yao(last year), Dwight, Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler (See recap of Boston’s game against Charlotte on Wednesday). I can see him doing same to Bynum.
And yes I can see Perk pushing and leaning on either Gasol or Bynum and not letting them get good positioning. Bynum is taller, but not stronger than Perk.
I guess we could go on and on about matchups, though.
I must admit, though…I am happy to see BOTH LA and Boston this deep. It hasn’t been like this in about 20 years. Both teams can easily vie for the Championship for next 2-3 years, I think.
Defense wins games (And Championships)!
by Celtics18and19 on Oct 30, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Celtics are the Lakers daddy !
We have been in the past , we are currently and will be in the future!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakers–Celtics_rivalry
Go Celtics the 17 time NBA world champions and #1 franchise in the NBA !
http://www.sportsauthority.com/largeImage/index.jsp?LargeImageURL=http%3A//TSA.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p2821185dt.jpg
by celtics #1 on Oct 30, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oops
Sorry my 2nd link above was a dud, here is the right one.
https://www.storesonlinepro.com/files/2034797/uploaded/76160 Boston Celtics Banner.jpg
by celtics #1 on Oct 30, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My error, actually all the links are just fine, though some do not open up automatically when you click on them.
Simply drag links to your address bar and open them up to view.
by celtics #1 on Oct 30, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
always a great game!
If you are looking for tickets to the upcoming Lakers/Celtics game, check out OptionIt.com. Legit company that is a partner of the C’s selling great seats.
by ntayl on Nov 10, 2009 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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