Doc: The Celtics Forgot Ubuntu Last Year
by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 3, 2009 8:35 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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Steve Bulpett has some interesting quotes from Doc Rivers about last year's team:
"I thought last year there were so many other things going on - you know, contracts, fanfare, all that. I tell you, I think especially with the young guys, admiration is a difficult beast to deal with. How you handle that on a day-to-day basis is very challenging. I think that was a distraction that as a group we didn’t handle nearly as well as I’d like and as well as we could have.
"I thought we had a lot of different agendas. Guys were looking out for their own situations more than the team situation. That came through all year. It was never anything really big, but it was there all year. You could see it in little things, and I think when you take it as a whole it really had an effect on our season."
"Once you have success, it’s a boost to you and your confidence," he said. "That should be good, but sometimes guys take it in a different direction. They start thinking a little too much about their own situation, and it can be hard not to when everywhere you go people are telling you how great you are. It can be hard to keep things in perspective, and I think that was a problem for us last year.
"But I think that was a great teaching tool for us as we go into this year. It was a great lesson. Obviously I wouldn’t have wanted to learn that lesson as a group, but I think we did. I think because of that pressure, at times we were less tolerant of each other. That’s player to player more than player to coach."
Interesting stuff. There was a noticeable lack of "ubuntu" talk in the media last year, but there weren't many reports of team conflicts or distractions, either. When thinking of players playing for themselves, rather than the team, the first guy from last year's team to come to mind would be Stephon Marbury. However, Doc has had nothing but good things to say about him in the past, and Doc's criticism seemed to be mostly on the younger guys. Who are the culprits, then? The most likely candidates have to be Big Baby, Powe, and Rondo, just because they were all learning their way in the NBA last year, and enjoying some success. Let's hope, whatever the issue was, that it doesn't become a further distraction this year.
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was just coming over to post virtually the same exact thoughts
my only addition to the speculation is Eddie House, who could have been a free agent this year
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Absolutely...
There are definitely a lot of potential culprits; pretty much anybody who was up for a contract or had his minutes reduced is potentially covered here. I didn’t mention Eddie because Doc seemed mostly focused on young guys, but you never know.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
personally, I blame Mikki Moore
…and Patrick O’Bryant for everything
makes me feel better
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Doc is very vague {as usual}
Last year`s Celts were done in by :
1} KG`s knee
2} Leon`s knee
3} Loss of Posey {Mr. Ubuntu}
I agree
and that point was made in the article
but that doesn’t mean this issue (if left unchecked) won’t prevent a title this year
I think Doc is doing the right thing bringing it up but not calling anyone out individually
the younger players need to learn from the veterans and follow the example set forth 2 years ago
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
While that's true...
… I’ll trust Doc when he says he saw some stuff affecting team chemistry that he didn’t like. If he’s trying to humble his players, I think that’s a good thing.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Completely Agree!
Rondo, Big Baby and Powe (his attitude, anyway) were NOT the team’s problem last year. Depth was a problem down the stretch, and it was exposed because of the injury situation.
Main problem or not, the claim that there wasn’t Ubuntu as the team was used to is quite accurate and valid.
by BudweiserCeltic on Oct 3, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Trying to think of examples...
I remember Quentin Richardson got into it with Leon Powe last year, and afterward said something like the young guys haven’t been in the league long enough to be trash talking about their ring. That’s the only example I can remember off the top of my head.
Also, of course, their was the criticism of Rondo for being a little headstrong, but I think that pre-dated the championship.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
BB cops to and defends his lack of ubuntu last year in today's Globe:
"In the playoffs I showed I’ve grown and I have a lot of confidence in my game,’’ Davis said. "There’s nothing to prove. When I came in my rookie year, you have to do something to prove. And, if you don’t play as much as you wanted, you come back the next year with something to prove. But, now, I just play the game like it’s supposed to be played and make sure I’m helping the team…"
I'm sure it was just 'ubuntu'...
With or without ‘ubuntu’, losing Garnett (and even Powe) is the real reason we didn’t have more success. I really don’t need to hear more about the young guys causing a problem last year (i.e., all the Rondo stories), Baby and Rondo took huge steps last year almost pulling us into the ECF (where we had no business being w/o Garnett). There is no need for excuses. We already know why they didn’t win.
The articles recognizes that KG's injury was the #1 factor...
The coach believes ancillary agendas got in the club’s way. Although those factors likely weren’t as large in their demise as Kevin Garnett’s absence, they played an unsettling role.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Agree with Steve's article and Doc's comments.
When I talked with Ray Allen he said something very similar.
Seems to be the training camp theme.
Interesting...
That’s the great thing about having folks “on the ground”. I don’t remember anybody else in the media mentioning Ray saying this.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
It will be in another article I put up today
at Celtics Central on Ray. I was able to get some one-on-one time with him at the end of practice.
I went yesterday representing both sites. Ray Allen is a UConn guy so I’ll put him there.
Make sure you send us a link. ;-)
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
here is the link
to my article following up a similar theme
http://blog.ctnews.com/halzack/2009/10/03/tough-themes-emerging-from-celtics-camp/
I guess we did notice last year's team was somehow different than the 07-08
There could have been some growing egos in the locker room. I guess it’s a common phenomenon after you’ve reached the top and won the championship, don’t you think so? We usually say that the champions are arrogant, etc.
KG’s injury was the biggest factor, obviously, for the team’s lack of focus or results.
But I’m glad that Doc talked about it publicly and that the players themselves acknowledge it in different ways, because it means this year they will be as focused as ever and be all committed to the Ubuntu spirit. You can already feel the team’s unity in training camp, through quotes, interviews, etc.
Yup...
Agree with Doc. Taking nothing away from the leaps made by Baby & Rondo, but there’s more the team success than individual accomplishment, and I think that is at the heart of this article.
Who’s he talking about? Marbury and Eddie are totally out of left field, those guys were very good soldiers last year. I get the sense that these comments are in reference to Baby & Rondo, each of whom seemed to walk away from last season with an inflated feeling of self-importance. I think it’s telling that the Celtics brass went out of their way to publicly put these two in check when the off season began…
www.greentownsfinest.com
Perk, let’s not forget about Perk. Didn’t want to mention him since I thought he was fantastic last year, but you could see he wanted to take matters into his own hands more often, which could’ve contributed. I really didn’t have much problem, since he helped establish a post presence, but it was evident that at times he bit off more than he could chew.
Even so, Rondo, Baby, and Powe are more likely the bigger culprits. And even Tony Allen, since he really wanted to establish himself in the team coming back from injury and showing that he could play the bigger minutes at the SG/SF positions, but considering what his role on the team is… get the ball and penetrate for the most part, it’s hard to say.
by BudweiserCeltic on Oct 3, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions
No problem with cranking up the Ubuntu
But I kinda wonder how noteworthy whatever Doc is referring to is. If it helps bring the team together, great. But the team did win 62 games last year. KG went down and there was no bench relatively speaking. It was great having the “Ubuntu” vibe in ’08, but the team was just outclassed by the time the playoffs came around in ’09.
Maybe ‘08 did have the perfect harmony, but I don’t think that’s necessary or necessarily realistic to be a champion. As another example, last year Cleveland was reported to be as harmonious a team as could be, but they ran into a bad match up against a team which was periodically squabbling with its own coach. I’m sure it stinks for Doc and the coaching staff to have to deal with little side issues, but in the big picture that just seems like so much static compared to the end results.
Great points.
Something tells me what Doc’s referring to is stuff that usually is meant to stay in-house for ALL teams, especially when talking about young guys wanting to get that $$$$. If we had KG, we probably at least get to face Cleveland, 80-85% Ubuntu or 100%, cause I won’t buy we had less than 70% Ubuntu.
by Tai on Oct 3, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
you could definitely see it
when they were in tough spots last year they folded frequently and a lot had to do with their inability to work as a group in the stretch… if you watch the christmas day game against the lakers they were hollering at one another and making a mess
just the young guys?
Despite Doc focusing his comments on the young guys, I have to think the issue was a team issue from 1 to 15. If 2 or 3 players don’t buy in, no one else will either.
And I do think it hampered the team, though not nearly as much as injuries.
by Thruthelookingglass on Oct 3, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions
One Question
So why didn’t Doc do anything about this last year?
Sorry to be hard on the guy, but when I hear Doc talk about the negatives, there never seems to be much talk of what he and the staff did wrong.
MANAGEMENT
The real problem was a lack of Posey. Think back he always hyped up teammates on the bench and on the floor. Last year the word “Ubuntu” was said but not really felt. All the time you can here teams with cute or something flashy phrase but it has to be felt.
No Posey no “Ubuntu” feeling.The young players stepped up when asked. I think they preformed great. They are not the problem, but there is a problem. So where is the problem originating from. Who’s bright idea was it to trade Posey. Who’s bright idea is it to keep saying uncomplimentary remarks about Rondo. The young man is your future, he’s very good he is a good citizen we have no real backup for him and you keep criticizing him in public. It’s no secret everyone knows a team must have a point guard and a big man to start to be good and we throw ours under the bus in public. And have the nerve to point your finger at your prize and say…. it’s you fault. What if Rondo decides to do what Lebron and D. Wade is doing and says who’s the highest bidder. The price of P#@*^ just went up sky high.
If you are looking for that feeling there’s only one guy that might be to supply that “Rasheed”
Pure Spin
Doc’s just looking for a way to motivate the team. Since they didn’t win last season, you gotta blame it on something. KG’s injury is the obvious #1 factor, but you can’t generate much motivation by blaming everything on that. But if you blame it on certain players not sacrificing for the benefit of the team, bingo!, you have some motivation you can use the entire season.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Oct 3, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
If by "Ubuntu" he means "Kevin Garnett" ...
Then Doc is right. But seriously, this is just Doc trying to motivate the team.
Marbury?
I don’t really understand why Marbury’s name got tossed out there. I guess because of his reputation from the past and the fact that he is certifiably insane? I heard absolutely nothing about him being anything but “ubuntu.” He had a limited role, and as far as i remember never publicly complained about. He seemed to embrace the structure here. He was horrible on the court, but I am pretty sure that he was a “good soldier” during his time in Boston.
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