Is Doc hesitant about benching the big 3 in crunch time out of respect?

by celtics #1 on Nov 15, 2009 9:53 AM EST Comment 12 comments

I am puzzled why Doc continues to play the big 3 at the end of games during crunch time in games in which they are struggling, which has happened at times over the past few years and especially during recent games.

Is their a clause in his contract that states he must play the big 3 at the end of games and in crunch time even if they are struggling ?

Take for instance last nights game:

Shelden Williams was playing great and was providing the team with a spark with his solid physical play, hustle and energy.

He was on a role especially in the 3rd quarter when he rejected his opponent and then hustled down the court for a nice slam dunk.

Moments later though Doc pulled Williams from the game in place of Garnett and it was like a balloon of energy was deflated because the game started to do down hill then and the C's evidently lost the game.

Another example:

In the 4th period Ray Allen just went ice cold and was bricking his outside shots badly, but Doc continued to keep him in the game and went to him time after time even though Allen was struggling badly with his shot.

You could see Ray just did not have it in the 4th so why did Doc continue to keep him on the floor?

Doc could of shook things up and put Daniels in the game who could of got us drives too the hoop and better shot options or even could of went with Hudson who is a good scorer to give us more of a offensive punch.

Another example is Pierce, he was also struggling in the 4th with his bad knee, not being able to defend his opponent and was a non factor offensively.

Why did Doc not bench him for say Daniels, Scalabrine or even Walker who could all provided some offensive punch and solid defense?

I just do not get why Doc continues to play the big 3 in crunch time when they are struggling, when we have bench players that are capable of coming in for them and giving us a spark and a lift when we need it the most.

When the big 3 are on the floor and things start going down hill in crunch like in last nights game its puzzling why Doc continue to just stand pat with them and not go to the bench.

He has no problem pulling bench players out of the game for starters when they struggle so should do the same if the starters struggle.

After all what was the purpose of building a bench this summer if we do not use it when the big 3 are struggling, like they were last night?.

I think Doc for the good of the team has to stop fearing he will hurt the feelings or show disrespect to the big 3 and bench them in crunch time when they are struggling or if other bench players are playing better than them.

Any one else agree with me?

Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.

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It’s funny you’d bring the Big 3 when Rondo was the biggest liability on the floor this game.

by kozlodoev on Nov 15, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I am perfectly happy with seeing the best players on the floor in crunch time.

How many times have we seen a star player have a bad game only to come alive in the last minute to steal a win?

Pierce, KG and Ray have earned those spots.

by Wide Load on Nov 15, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree....

also if the big 3 are not playing well, Doc should sit them down and play a bench player instead.

That is not Doc disrespecting the big 3, that is him just being a smart coach.

Last night when Doc pulled Williams who was playing with energy is a perfect example of if it is not broken do not fix it.
Williams was playing a solid all around game and Doc should of left him in the game.

I think Doc must simply put the best players for that given night out on the court, especially during crunch time, no matter if it is any of the big 3 or bench players and all will be fine.

by fordescort on Nov 15, 2009 1:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Outside of Wallace, who can you trust off the bench to make the big shots?

And create the shot as well.

by Wide Load on Nov 15, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The changing of the guard is not always pretty but Doc is going to make it ugly. If you stick to older players and do not play young players all of a sudden their career is over and we end up with egg on our face. Our young guys are not bad but how good they really are is always in question because Doc refuses to give them floor time. What makes this so bad is the older players keep asking for the young guys to be given more floor time.

Danny says Giddens is a hell of a one one player, but Doc again refuses to put in plays where Giddens could be productive. Giddens is not a world beater, but if given a fair chance could he be?

What good does it do if you have the best record at the end of the year and you do not develop your youth while getting there. The problem is the couch. Doc wants to play the older players in the ground. them he gets that stupid look on his face and people on this blog says there is no one on the bench that we can count on. Let me share a secret if you don’t put a young player on the floor how do you really know what kind of a player you have. You don’t. Doc’s process is not fair to us the fans, the player or the organization. He’s ruining players lives he’s wasting money and he is thoroughly pissing me off.

by tyquinton on Nov 15, 2009 3:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The youth is not that good

Let’s be honest.

Rondo and Perk are established, not future potential.

Davis is a solid role player.

JR is gone at the end of the year if not sooner. Even Ainge gave up on him by not picking up his option.

More to the point, this team is about winning now. Everything this team does should be about winning a title this season.

Who cares that guys like Hudson and Walker have no end of close game experience by the end of this season. It doesn’t matter this season in terms of winning.

If you think this is time to change guard already, then Pierce, KG, Ray, Wallace, House and Daniels should all be on the block now.

But no. It is not time to change guard. It is time for the Celtics to pick up the defensive intensity and point this team towards number 18.

by Wide Load on Nov 15, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"He's runing players lives" [sic]

Care to explain that particularly bit of hyperbole?

-sw

Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.

Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw

by Steve Weinman on Nov 15, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Doc can play young players to develop them or just help out the team when the big struggle.

I for one think we have some real nice “young” on the team in Hudson, Walker, Giddens and Williams.

Doc must play these young guys a bit to see if they can possibly help us this year when we face young athletic teams and if they are worth keeping around in future years.

If Doc does not want to play the young players enough to develop them, he at least needs to allow them and the rest of the bench to play during crunch time instead of any big 3 players that are having a off night.

He should at least be able to do that.

by fordescort on Nov 17, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Great points Celtics#1

No one is saying any bench player is better than the big 3 or the starters talent wise or starting a bench player in place of them.

But on nights when any of the big 3 or starters are not playing well, their is nothing wrong or disrespectful with Doc sitting them down and playing bench players instead.

by leothetiger on Nov 15, 2009 6:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The root of the problem is Doc will not play the young’s. The two loses came about because old legs can’t keep up with young legs.

I don’t know if our young guys can play or not……..AND NEITHER DO YOU. The reason we don’t know is because Doc wont play them in the different times when he can. Not one time has Doc played a young guy just because he liked him. Every time Doc has played a young player it’s been out of necessity.

No Al Jefferson play Perk
No KG play Big Baby
No Delonte West play Rondo
No Big Baby play Sheldon Williams

No way house plays over Hudson. Hudson was the second leading scorer in college basketball last year. Out dueled Derrick Rose in there showdown. Derrick Rose ends up starting but Hudson can hit the floor. There is not that difference in there talent. If a young Larry Bird can through the door Doc wouldn’t play him.

He wants to play the “OLD THREE” in the ground and come playoff time, get that stupid look on his face. The two losses we suffered were to young teams. I can hear the grumblings now, but we can’t trust the young guys. What in the HELL did we bring them here for if there’s not going to be a chance for them to do what ever there talents will allow.

by tyquinton on Nov 17, 2009 9:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Well said tyquinton

I agree on just about every point you made.

I drives me crazy also how Doc just does not want to play young players.

Why would you not want to play a raw but talented Hudson or Walker or Giddens etc.now nice and early in the season just to see what the kids can do.

At the same time you can keep the big 3 and the rest of the starters fresh by reducing their minutes.

Doc has a bad habit of not going to the bench during tight games and that is just plain wrong.

It does not matter if the Celtics have a nice lead in a game or if the game is tight , if any of the big 3 or any other starter is not playing well you bench them , no questions asked.

Doc is the pro and we are just observers as fans, but watching him continue to milk the big 3 and the starters when they are having a off night instead of going to the bench is very, very frustrating.

by fordescort on Nov 17, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs