Kobe gets the superstar call of the year
by DRJ1 on Dec 16, 2009 11:37 PM EST
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PrintIn the last minute of OT vs. the Bucks on Dec 16, Kobe dribbles down the middle near the top of the key, FALLS SHOULDER FIRST into the stationary defender.... and gets the foul call for an and-1. As clear a charge (and travel) as you will ever see. And the Lakers win another squeaker against a mid-level team in OT.
It seems to me that the Lakers are playing quite badly for a putative championship-caliber team, and that they are headed for a major blowout against whoever comes out of the East. I'm not saying who that latter will be, except to note that the color green will be involved.
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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Yeah it was a bad call. No doubt.
Of course it was about the 20th bad call of the game. Including a total BS reputation Technical on Artest. It all even’s out.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
doesn't even out
It doesn’t even out. When did Artest get that T? In the 2nd Quarter. Would he get one if it was with 1 minute left in overtime? No. Unless he played for the Bucks.
Now, would Bogut get that call earlier in the game against Kobe? Probably. But will he with 1 minute left in overtime? Never. Because he plays for the Bucks.
And if the Bucks would have made those free throws down the stretch it would have meant absolutetly nothing. Because then the refs would give the Lakers 2 calls for Kobe in the last minute.
So it doesn’t even out. It never has, and it never will. Why do the big market teams who win always say the same phony sayings over and over again. “It all evens out”, “They got the call right” “The better team won” “The team that won played better”. Those are all nonsense sayings that mean nothing.
When was the last time in the past 25 years where an underdog won close to anything in the NBA? Where are the NC States? Where are the Villanovas? They are not there because the league will not allow it. And I’m not saying the Bucks should win the championship either, but they should win something and the league allows them and teams like them nothing.
Just imagine if that sort of menality existed in 1980. The USA would have never won the Gold in Hockey in the Olympics because they were the underdog. And if USA took the lead, the refs would just give USSR the calls so they could win.
I mean just think about all the great scenarios and great moments that could happen in the NBA, but don’t because of this.
Andrew Bogut made a great defensive play in the last minute, he stepped up and took a beautiful charge from Kobe to win the game. It was a brilliant play, the best he could possibly do. What else could he do? Slap Kobe on the wrist, knock him over? No. That was the best play he could make. And the refs took it from him so they could add to the accolades of Kobe. Has nothing to do with sports whatsoever. It is 100% a staged act and predetermined outcome. Not worth the price of a ticket, and not worth an real discussion of who actually won the game.
yeah it was a badcall but....
good teams play through those calls. Plus Bucks were still up by 1 with 5 seconds to go and they didnt even try to get the ball out of his hands or even double team him. Also, they missed free throws like crazy in overtime.
Definitely
3 missed FTs at the end, and no double team on Kobe for the last shot. What were they thinking?
But then that’s the point… that’s why they’re, so far, no better than a mid-level team. And yet the Lakers can’t put them away without going into OT and almost losing. Hmmm….
I don't know if you watched the whole game or not......
but the Lakers actually played a pretty good game (better than last night when they won easily). They just missed a lot of easy shots and the Bucks made a lot of really tough ones. It happens. The point is, we won. 3-0 in overtime so far this season. When the games matter in June, games like this one will come in handy.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
???
Have I played basketball, or did I play for the Lakers last night? Not sure what you mean. However my answers in order would be yes and no.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
You referred to the team as "we"
so I was wondering what your official capacity with the Lakers was.
when you really give a damn about the city AND team, its called WE...
Lakers, Hurricanes, Dolphins
Imagine my sports world in the 80's. They're almost back, 'ceptin the Dolphins
by LAKESHOWrydamee on Dec 18, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Um.....Season Ticket Holder would be the most accurate title I suppose.
Also you can refer to LAKESHOWrydamee’s comment as well. Or you can just click here and ask your fellow Celtics fan.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
I don't think so, but you should probably ask......
KJ33. He’s the smart one that thinks we shouldn’t refer to our favorite teams as “we”.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
He's right
“We” is used to refer to a group of which you are a part. Merely attending or watching games does not make you a part of a team; it makes you a customer.
Saying “we” about a sports team is just as inane as referring to a new automobile by saying “we released a new car…” just because you’re a customer of Ford.
It’s just plain silly referring to the team you follow using “we.” You have no standing within the organization, therefore you are not part of it.
play through?
Nobody plays through calls like that. Where do some of you come up with this stuff. Whether or not the Bucks missed or made FT, or missed or made shots it has nothing to do with the fact that Kobe blatantly charged Bogut. Its like all this stuff recently came out about refs in the NBA and superstars and having certain teams win and then a call like this happenes and everybody wants to talk about all the other stuff that happened in the game.
Who Cares?
You have a blatant charge where if that call isn’t made Lakers have no chance to win the game. The only way the Lakers have a chance to win that game after a play like that is if the refs cheat and call it a foul on Bogut.
And you know why the NBA gets away with it? Because none of you do anything!! You just sit there and talk about how Ridnour should have done this or Redd should have done that.
Who Cares?
When Bogut missed a free throw did he look to the ref, start whining and then have the ref count it as 1 point? No
So why should Kobe get 3 points on a play where he clearly charged?
All this cheating and inside stuff going on in the NBA, particularly on a play like this, and the fans seem to be almost as much to blame as the refs because all of you just sit back and talk about other plays in the game, how 1 team was stronger, and 1 team made big plays which is why they won.
That is nonsense.
The Lakers won this game 100% because the refs handed them a call, where if they didn’t get that call they would have 100% lost.
and you know what
Who cares that Artest got hit with a T earlier that he shouldn’t have. and Who cares about the other bad calls in the game. None of them matter. Because when the major call is on the line, the superstar team gets the call every single time!! Those other calls are just there so at the end of the day people can say look the calls evened out. That is why they make those calls. Because in the end they know when the team they want to win needs a call, they will 100% give it to them.
Just remember that the Bucks were STILL UP BY 1 with 5 secs to go
Its not like that one play decided the game. If that foul occured within that 5 seconds to go possession, then you can say it decided the game. And by the way, if you go back, and look at the call, Bogut had both his feet moving at the time so it was a call that could’ve gone either way. And dont think that Kobe is the only guy who gets superstar calls; in the 08 Finals, we couldnt even TOUCH Pierce.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
feet not moving
see I don’t like that. Bogut had his feet moving before Kobe got to him. Kobe just barrelled into this defender and knocked him over. Its a clear charge. Its not a basketball play. He really didn’t do anything to say “Wow, Kobe deserves 3 points” It was a debacle of a play and a busted play. Just admit it. Don’t talk about Bogut and how the call could have gone either way. It coudln’t have. 100% charge. It was a great defensive play by Bogut. Just admit it, that is a start. If you put Kobe in Bogut’s place, Bogut in Kobe’s place. Poll Lakers fans and ask what do you think happened on that play and 99.9% of them would say charge on Bogut, no way that Kobe didn’t draw a charge there after getting knocked over. Nobody would have said that call should go for Bogut. So don’t say the call could have gone either way. Admit it when its the wrong call.
sorry but....
it could’ve gone either way.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
lol...
funny how you’ve going through all my posts and saying some BS conspiracy crap.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
LOL!
Pierce is not now, never has been and certainly was not in the ’08 Finals regarded as a superstar y the league. He has never even been in the top 10 when discussion of MVP comes up. But all of the sudden, going against just say no Kobe and he is the star? In a series where 7 out of the 8 “experts” at ESPN had the Lakers winning, the league made calls for Pierce? My guy hurts I am laughing so hard.
didnt matter who was favored but
most of those calls went to Pierce in that Finals. Yeah, Kobe did get some too of course but (especially in Boston) Pierce really couldnt be touched when he came down the lane. Granted, some of those fouls were legit fouls, but other times, particularly in game 1, if he just got tapped, he would get the call.
by desecrator93 on Dec 18, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
And I know your not really laughing,
just trying to strengthen your argument by adding that insecure little, “LOL”. Now THATS funny.
by desecrator93 on Dec 18, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
the Bucks were up 6 with like a minute left
no excuses
had they took care of their business at the FT line they would have won anyway despite the bad call.
they have no one to blame but themselves rather than blaming a third party.
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
you're wrong
had they “taken care of business” Lakers would have just gotten 2 gift calls down the stretch instead of 1. What does “no excuses” have to do with the fact that the key call in the game was predetermined?
i agree
kobe and labron get what ever they want its rediculous.. i probly would of punched my tv if that was perk in boguts place
i doubt that perkins would have flopped
liike bogut did
What does "no excuses" have to do with the fact that the key call in the game was predetermined?
Predetermined? does stern have a psychic predict kobe would run into bogut and tells the refs to call a blocking foul on bogut
your whole logic is bull.
theres gonna be bad calls over the course of a game…
that was one of them. does it make more sense to blame one error over blaming a series of errors made by the Bucks that had a much larger impact on the game? nope.
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
heres a good quote from some coach:
If you don’t want the refs to decide a game, play well enough so their calls don’t matter. If you leave it in their hands you take your chances.
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
You're missing malik's point
…which is that the SYSTEM sucks. He’s right, it does.
That coach you quoted was simply dealing with the reality that refs do decide games. In some cases, like this one, they do it very badly, incorrectly, blatantly unfairly. Malik is not upset about this one game. He’s ranting at the whole system, and he’s right. Superstars get the benefit of more bad calls than non-superstars, and big-market teams get it more than small-market teams…. and that is no accident. It’s about time the NBA changed its ways. And if it doesn’t, one can only hope that somehow, sometime, they will be made to pay the price, legally, financially… somehow.
For now, the only price they pay is the alienation of many fans. The NBA could have millions more fans than it does if not for the obvious unfairness of its officiating.
agreed
the system is definitely flawed
i admit star players do tend to get more calls
and sometimes the refs do have an impact on a game’s outcome (no doubt it was a bad call)
but what im trying to say is that placing all the blame on the refs for that call is wrong when the Bucks had a 6 point lead in overtime with around a minute left but failed to make their FTs or get that one stop on the final play…when you do not get the job done, you are basically allowing a second or third party to have an impact on the outcome.
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
We agree
Bucks could have and should have put the game away, even with that bad call. And yet, they would have won anyway, despite their failures, if not for that bad call. Both elements are true in this case.
Intelligence
something I thought most Celtic fans sorely lacked. I stand corrected :)
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
bucks did play well
a rookie team up 6 points against the lakers and the refs just give kobe the game guess it was a christmas gift or something..
they didnt give them the game...
The Bucks were still up with 5 seconds to go. All their defense had to do was make a stop and nobody is talking about that call.
by desecrator93 on Dec 18, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
And felt compelled to write about it because?????????
"If your not first, then your last"
Ricky Bobby
Why is there air?
To fill up basketballs, of course. “Why” is always a tricky question, always double-edged (as in why do you feel compelled to ask why?)
You guys are looking tough this year.
I am not even looking at Cavs or Magic anymore. Stay healthy and we will see you in June.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
well it's midnight in Boston.
But tomorrow they will be all over this thread while we sleep.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Yeah... but Magic are in the running
They will be a tough out. You never know with all the 3-point shooters they have, anything can happen. But yes, I think if the Cs stay healthy they’ll be in the Finals.
From the West, I think it’s 50% Lakers, 25% Suns, 15% Mavs, 10% Spurs…. give or take 5%-10% on any of those numbers.
way too high on the Suns.
otherwise I agree with you. Maybe give 15% of the Suns 25% to the Nuggets.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
sure, no problem
… your numbers are within the 5-10% leeway. I just like the Suns… a little more D and they’d be great (though of course that’s not going to happen).
I guess I forgot Denver
… gotta stick them in there somewhere :)
yes it was a bad call
but….
It seems to me that the Lakers are playing quite badly for a putative championship-caliber team
the lakers are playing bad?? they just broke the record for most games won by 10 or more And scoring 100 while not allowing 100… with 8 in a row… and on the 11 game win streak 9 were blow outs..
yes we lost to the jazz in a close game where kobe had a broken finger plus was under the weather.. and yes we barely beat miami.. but the other 12 games or so other then those were big time blow outs…
Well, you would know better
… since I only watch the Lakers from time to time. But in all those times, it seemed they struggled to win (and sometimes lost), usually with some last-minute histrionics from Mr. Bryant.
I’ve still picked them to come out of the West… for that long-awaited rematch. My prediction regarding that: a rubber match will not be necessary.
There's not a ton of difference between the way the Lakers and Celtics have looked this year
Dominant most of the time, but occasionally vulnerable against mid-level and bad teams. Just not vulnerable enough to lose much. Celtics have played more on the road, but they’ve also played a much weaker schedule (in terms of opponents win %)
Regardless, both teams seem to be head and shoulders above the pack right now.
Since we're discussing the teams...
Here’s my main problem with the Lakers… written not as a Cs fan, but as an observer.
I don’t like how dependent the Lakers are on one guy, Kobe. It seems to me that without him, that team is lost in space, nowhere. Not as bad as the Cavs would be without LBJ, or the Magic without Howard… but still pretty bad.
The Celtics, on the other hand, are a real team. Not only in the way they play, but because there is no one superstar without which the team falls apart. Ok, I wouldn’t want to see us lose any of our starters… especially not Rondo or KG… but the Cs are in no way a one-horse team. Too often, the Lakers look like one.
Well, I agree with you to an extent.
If the Lakers lost Kobe the wouldn’t win the championship. However I don’t think their dependence on him is a weakness at all (unless of course he is injured). While he occasionally takes too many shots they are usually within the offense, he draws a lot of double teams and opens up the offense for others. Stop Kobe and you don’t necessarily stop the Lakers. Stop Lebron and the Cavaliers are toast. He is their entire offense, everything runs through him one way or another (that’s why Lebron gets more assists, not Kobe’s “selfishness”).
Injuries are totally out of your control so saying “boy you are in trouble if Player X gets injured” is just a waste of time. However when you can say “take Player X out of his game and you can beat his team” then your team is in trouble. That’s why I said above that I don’t even think about LBJ or the Cavs. The Lakers have been able to minimize/shut him down without Artest and most likely will with Artest as well.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Actually...
… the way the Cs won 08’s Game 4 (which I am sure you remember well) was exactly by stopping Kobe, which began when Pierce started shutting him down in Q3. That’s how the Cs won with the greatest comeback in playoff history. So yes, it is a huge and dangerous flaw to have your team so dependent on one guy, whether you’re in Cleveland or Los Angeles.
Additionally… as you have said, injuries happens and we can’t control them. Very true, of course. Injuries WILL happen. But if they happen to a real “team”, they’ll deal with it, regardless of who it is. If you have one indispensable player on your roster and it happens to him, well, you’re dead in the water. Again, a huge and dangerous flaw.
how did the celtics do without KG?
I think if Ray Allen was the one injured last year, it would have been a different story in the playoffs for the celtics. The Celtics claim that they didn’t have dedication to defense until Garnett came over. Sounds like you guys depend on him a lot. Almost just as much as the Lakers do with Kobe. But the Lakers don’t depend fully on Kobe for offense. Many times the offense actually runs through Pau Gasol in the post or Lamar Odom bringing the ball up.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
tell that to those that say if garnett was healthy last year...
the celts would’ve beaten LA. Kobe covets the ball, this we all know. as much as we know that boston goes nowhere without kg. keep it real man…
Lakers, Hurricanes, Dolphins
Imagine my sports world in the 80's. They're almost back, 'ceptin the Dolphins
by LAKESHOWrydamee on Dec 18, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Not anymore
Sheed can go a long way to help cover for KG. Yes, really. He does a lot of (loud) talking on D, and has similar physical and mental capabilities on D.
Now Rondo is another story. I would really, seriously hate to lose Rondo.
But no single player on the Cs is as critical as Kobe is to the Lakers. I think we agree on that.
yes we do.
However I still think discussing hypothetical injuries is the same as discussing hypothetical trades. Sure they will make an impact, but why waste the time.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
All problems are hypothetical... until they're not
We’re discussing potential problems, so it’s a valid point. Every time LeBron or Kobe or Dwight takes a step, they could land on someone’s foot… and poof… there goes their team’s season.
Not a big deal. Just sayin’
True, but Ray Allen could potentially go into a major shooting slump in the Playoffs....
and kill your chances to win a title. Since it isn’t very likely to happen I just don’t get into it. However stopping one player (like Lebron) is very likely to happen so to me it seems like a more realistic topic.
However I agree………It’s no big deal.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
IT WAS A CHARGE!
MJ, LeBron, Kobe, have their own special rules.
It’s okay to take 3 steps.
If they want the “and 1” they can have it.
If you sneeze on said player, it will be a foul, if flem was involved it WILL be a Flagrant 2.
It is legal if you are/were one of said player to dip your shoulder while driving.
Carrying/double dribble will not be called, unless said move is named after a sea dwelling crustacean.
you forgot to include
Paul Pierce in that group.
And you failed to mention how Garnett gets away with taunting, or how only a fraction of the C’s illegal screens are called.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
total nonsense
Pierce “isn’t in the group”. You know what Paul Pierce’s 1998-99 Topps Chrome card sells for? $2. You know what Kobe Bryan’ts 1996-97 Topps Chrome card sells for? $160. So don’t sit there and act like Pierce gets those calls. He doesn’t. And Garnett gets T’d when he taunts. Especially at the end of the game. No way Garnett taunts hard with 1 minute to go in overtime and doesn’t get T’d up. Stop making up stuff.
just go on auction sites
and you can see. Is Kobe 80 times the player Pierce is? No. But he commands 80 times the price, so why would Pierce get the same calls Kobe does. He doesn’t command as much in prices.
Charge
When you look at the NBA you have Sonics vs Suns in 1993 where calls were handed to Barkley so he could get into the finals. Bucks vs 76ers in 2001 where calls were handed to Iverson so he could get in. Then Kobe and Shaq in 2001 vs the Blazers, and Kobe and Shaq in 2002 vs the Kings which turned out to be the worst of all. Then it was Wade getting calls so he could win against Dallas in 2006. And most recently it was LeBron getting calls against Orlando in 2009 and the Magic actually won that series despite all the questionable calls.
Now you have a call like this against mediocre Andrew Bogut and mediocre Bucks.
It is such a blatant charge that it isn’t even funny. But do you know why the charge wasn’t called? Because the Lakers have 0% chance to win the game if it isn’t.
How do any of you people live in America and put up with stuff like this. It is such blatant cheating, there is little sense even rooting for an underdog like the Bucks because in reality when they have a 1 in 10 chance of winning it is more like a 1 in 1000 chance of winning. What does missed free throws have to do with anything? What does how 1 team played have to do with anything? Its not a fair athletic contest and it is supposed to be. Whether Bogut missed a free throw, or Redd didn’t play that well has nothing to do with the fact that Kobe charged Bogut and got 3 points out of it!
Now name 1 instance in basketball history since Jordan entered the league where an underdog mediocre small market team beat a superstar big market favorite team because they got the calls they shouldn’t have.
Never!! Its never happened in the past 25 years!! Don’t you realize how ridiculous that is?
And then all of you keep talking about how great the big market team that won is, and how great the superstar is who got the call. Why wouldn’t they be? They consitently get points, rebounds and assists added to their stats on plays they don’t make. Of course they are going to win. Of course they have better stats. Because the refs give it to them.
And then all of you sit back, pay money and talk about how 1 team was better than the other that is why they won. 100% Un-American.
Paging Joe McCarthy
Joe needs to come out of wherever he is (no doubt a very hot place) and hold some hearings about all this un-American activity!
Aside from the patriotic hyperbole… I agree with your basic point about superstar calls. It does, truly, suck… and it ruins the game. One would think that the NBA would finally GET it after the Donaghy scandal and book and all… but I guess not.
The only saving grace, such as it is, is that we can hope that when the Cs meet the Lakers in the Finals, the calls will be reasonably fair. We hope.
then
why do people put up with this? I know you know what you are talking about DRJ1, but 99% of people don’t.
Most of the time I root for underdogs and small markets, but sometimes I root for the favorites and I never want to win this way. Ever. I never want to get a phony call to win a game, I want to win fair and square with no controversy. Because if I do, it makes me feel like I didn’t actually win the refs just gave me the game. Yet that doesn’t seem to phaze some fans. You really want to win that way. You really want to win when a guy knocks over the defender on a clear charge and gets 3 points? I have never wanted to win that way and when a call like that happens I never say “Oh Kobe really got fouled by Bogut, good call, the better team won”
Its like being in 4th grade getting a 75 on a test, and then crybabying to the teacher to give you a 98 and an A+. Don’t you actually want to earn your 98? Doesn’t Kobe and Laker fans and other teams, players and fans in similiar situations actually want to earn their wins?
Does Kobe go to bed tonight feeling that he actually earned a win tonight?
I know it is not any NBA player’s opporutnity to do something about this, and of course nobody will make a statement, but does Kobe really feel like he earned a victory tonight? I just don’t see how he does. Sure he made a buzzer beater, but did he really? If that shot doesn’t go it do you think a whistle goes off, foul on Charlie Bell. I certainly think so.
Yeah the Bucks should have made their free throws, yeah right, then 2 calls go for Kobe. Yeah Kobe made a buzzer beater, yeah right. If the ball doesn’t go in, whistle on Charlie Bell. How predictable is this.
About Kobe
When he made his incredible buzzer-beating game-winning 3 over DWade, he said afterwards that he “got lucky”. I liked that, because it was the truth. Now he did argue forcefully, in the moment, for the call he got this time… but that’s his job, to win the game any way he can.
Does he believe he got the right call and won fair and square? I doubt it. I think… though I have not seen the post-game interviews, or know if he addressed this point… that when he sees the replay, he will readily admit that he did not deserve that call. Or maybe not. Not sure. It would be a good test of his character. Though he can’t come right out and say it was a bad call, he should say something like “It could have gone either way” or “I’m not sure.” If he does not claim that it was a good call, he passes the test.
As for the NBA
I’m on record in favor of anything that can legally be done to change the culture of referee cheating in the NBA. Congressional hearings, lawsuits, criminal charges, video backup systems… whatever works is fine by me. In general, it seems to me that things have gotten a LITTLE better since the Donaghy scandal broke. But just a little. Ridiculous calls still happen, every day.
A win is a win
Im sure the Lakers and Kobe know they stole that win. The Bucks were a better team that night but it came down to 1 horrible call, 2 missed free throws, and a clutch shot. Officiating really isnt that lopsided for superstars and their teams,especially after Donaghy, I know its the lakers but at least appreciate their overtime effort or the buzzer beater
by celtics3016 on Dec 17, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
yes
but that Kobe/Bogut call was pre determined. Anything goes down late in the game, Kobe gets the call no matter what he does. Even if he stumbles into his defender and knocks him over feet outside the restricted area well established position. The exact defnition of a charge.
referees can’t make a last-minute shot go in. referees can’t make a player miss free throws. refs can’t make a player miss a wide open jumper. so to say that the call was predetermined is a little tough to believe with the fact that they don’t know whether or not a player can capitalize off of a “bad call.”
If you think that “superstar calls” are only for certain players, maybe it’s because they’re so good they get the benefit of the doubt when the call is very close.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
Please don't tell me that Celtic fans are obsessing over the Lakers
in the same way that the Nuggets, and Spurs fans do. Charge or no charge Laker and Celtic fans no is going to agree. What bothers me is the extra effort to try and point out the what the Lakers are or aren’t doing. Why? Why does it matter? If the Celtics are supposed to be this great organization the fans should have more and not post anything Lakers related. Why would a Celtic fan go to such trouble and posting something like this? If the Celtics are so great, why should it matter what the Lakers are doing.
The Celtics have beaten Minn by 2 pts, Ny by 2 (OT), Philly by 3, WA by 2 and Memphis by 5…so before we start worrying about the arch enemy is doing let’s worry about what the Celtics have to worry about which is getting out of the East..we already know the Lakers are going to be there in the Finals but the road for the Celtics is much tougher.
Huh?
The road for the Celtics is harder? The East is tougher than the West? Not in this universe.
Btw… we, Lakers and Celtics fans in this thread, AGREE about that call. There is no argument about what happened. We got into other discussions… good ones, I think… but no one is arguing that that was a good call. Not here anyway.
Actually the road for the Celtics is harder.
Not the road to the best regular season record, but the road to the Finals, which I think was his point. The only real team that has a realistic chance to keep LA from the finals is Denver (we will probably have HCA and we may not even have to play them). The Celtics however will most likely have to beat some combination of Orlando, Clevaland, and Atlanta (which you guys seem to have more trouble with than you should, kind of like the Lakers with Portland).
Point is East is easier top to bottom, but not at the top.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Good point
But I wouldn’t count on barreling through teams like the Suns, Mavs or Spurs either. Any one of those teams can step up. It’s tough in both conferences.
Well I am a Laker homer, but....
Suns scare the Lakers about as much as the Nets scare the Celtics…..Not. Going. To. Happen.
Mavs are fairly dangerous, but with Pau (who we didn’t have when they beat us) we matchup VERY well against them.
Spurs don’t matchup well against the Lakers at all.
Only the athletic fast teams usually give us trouble.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
what?
This play has nothing to do with the Celtics or Lakers. It has to do with favorable calls made for favorable players and teams in sports. Its about getting the call right in crunch time when it matters. Its not about Boston worrying about LA, or the Spurs or Nuggets. Its about phony calls in sports. Get the call right and stop with the predetermined outcomes.
how bout winning sum road games
lakers 5-2 on the road…. celtics 12-1 ROAD WARRIORS! definetly the most dominating team in the nba right now and we are only getting better .. and this post was about a bad call not how much we hate the lakers sorry sir so delete your account now
that was definetly a charge, but who really cares? refs make those calls, bucks still had plenty of chances to win the ball game, but missed free throws, bricked bad shots, and couldnt get a stop.
and the Lakers arent struggling, theyre clearly the class of the west, will be back in the finals for the 3rd year straigh, a ot game against the bucks in december isnt going to change that, you make way too many generalizations after individual games…its an 82 game regular season, ups and downs for every team
who cares?
and if they would have gotten a stop, boom another gift call for the Lakers. Saying who cares is ridiculous. If the call is wrong, its wrong. Get it right. Stop cheating and giving in to pre determined outcomes. The Lakers will beat the Bucks, no way Bucks win. If it goes down late, Kobe will get the call, that is what the refs discussed before the game or they already knew the game would be called like that. Don’t say who cares. If the call is wrong, its wrong, that’s it. 82 games has nothing to do with it.
of course its wrong...
but dont expect that to change. Thats just how the NBA is. Superstars will get those calls so stop complaining so much about it. I remember in 08 Finals, we couldnt even touch Pierce when he came down the lane so its not like KB and LBJ are the only ones who get this treatment.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
No, that's wrong
We should NOT shut up and accept it. It’s wrong, whether it happens to Kobe, or Lebron, or Wade, or Paul Pierce (though that last is really, really rare, friend… he often gets mugged on his drives with no calls). What malik is saying is that the system is wrong, and I agree. I think it’s safe to say that what we fans want is for the refs to be FAIR… always. We want neither the burden nor the benefit of their biases. Just get it right.
yeah i agree the system is wrong and it SHOULD be changed
but do you HONESTLY expect it to change? I really dont unfortunetely. So theres no reason to get worked up about it so much because there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. And yes, Pierce got many of those calls in the 08 Finals. I dont know about last year or this year but in those Finals they treated him like MJ.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Do I really expect things to change?
Tough question. In fact, things HAVE changed, a little. The bad officiating is not as bad this year as it has been in the past. So there is hope. I can imagine that this kind of culture change… from referee arrogance and willful misconduct, to respect and fairness… would take time. Two or three years, maybe, after the Donaghy shock. So yeah, there is hope.
But what I really want to see is probably not going to happen anytime soon. I would like for there to be a video-booth referee (or two) at every game, using instant replay to review every close call, with the power to override the on-court refs anytime. Now THAT would be extremely cool. (The technology is already there to allow that to happen without slowing down the game at all.) Because the big problem for the NBA is that we fans now SEE EVERYTHING… in slow motion and from multiple angles. We see every mistake the refs make, there’s no hiding. To counter that, from a PR point of view, the NBA needs to embrace the video revolution, make it work for them.
They would gain millions of fans if they did all that… but like all big, entrenched organizations, they change only slowly. And only when forced. Donaghy supplied the force. Now they need time. We’ll see in the next couple of years how much change will really come.
Actually...
… I can see from your other posts that you agree that it’s wrong, but you think there’s no point in complaining about it, because it is what it is. I just think that we SHOULD complain about it… as loudly and as often as possible. Because that’s the only way it changes… we, the fans, are the reason there IS an NBA. If enough of us make our wishes clear, things could change. Capitalism works… sometimes…. eventually.
I agree, without us, the NBA is toast
hehe, I love having power
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
LOL @ you talking **** about all my posts
It was a little joke man jesus.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
its not a joke
the USA is not a joke, people fought for 100s of years to gain freedom, stop ruining it.
i never said the U.S. was a joke
wtf you talking about??
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
then
why do you go on numerous sites to spread lies? to win a sports game? try having some digntiy and integrity.
dude, you crazy
Your the one who’s talking out your * so you should be the one prosecuted and thrown into the joint if you ask me LOL
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
for what
free speech??? go back to the middle east buddy
lol, i had to laugh at that
" I'm a human, not a sandwich"
by true_lakerfan on Dec 18, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Ugly win for the Lakers, but don't blow up over the call
Sure the Bucks played hard and deserved to win, but they did give up those free throws in the end. Kobe’s charge definitely would have lost the Lakers the game if the refs got it right but don’t forget he shot a perfect game winner. We have won a fair amount of close games with mediocre-midlevel teams and bad calls happen, so what if Kobe was the one got away with it? The officiating is at least improving their calls after Donaghy. Bad calls happen. The Lakers don’t very solid on their first road trip though.
It was a horrible call, no doubt about it.
However the Bucks lost because they couldn’t make a free throw to save their lives (as you said). They blew a 6 point lead with one minute to go. You can’t blame that on one call. (Well since I am here I guess someone can)
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
yes
you can blame the call. That is why they lost. 100%. Its the only reason. If they made 2 extra free throws down the stretch that is only 1 more gift call the refs have to hand the Lakers, to make the Lakers win. The Bucks won that game by 2 points. That’s what really happened. Don’t talk about how the Bucks missed shots and the Lakers made shots. Every team makes or missed shots during a game. When a game is that close, the pre determined call decides the game and nothing else. If the Lakers were so great and deserved to win that game they wouldn’t have gone into overtime. A medicore team excels at home plays a great game against the Lakers and gets cheated at the end. That is what happened.
wrong
you’re the hater because you cheat. You see a guy travel and knock over a guy and think its and an 1. You’re a hater and a cheater, not an American whatsoever.
doesn't matter
what JK is, just say the call is wrong, refs should get the calls right. that’s all. stop spreading lies and propaganda that’s what the nazis did, stand up for your country and what is right.
LOL
Of course the refs should get the calls right. But that one call is highly debatable. Theres no way to say if it was INDISPUTABLY right or wrong.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
100%
indisputable, charge every time. only Laker fans say its not a charge. you won’t find one fan on any other team that says that isn’t a charge.
theres other people who would say its not indisputable
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
wrong
only Laker fans, no such thing as other people, just another paparzzi propaganda lie.
you sound like the guy from the Colombine shootings.....
Posting crap about conspiracys and stuff lol.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Tell you what, des...
Why don’t you post your real name and address, so malik and you can have a nice visit together, LOLOL
LOL
I dont wanna have a spike drived through me so I’m good
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
free country
buddy you don’t have to worry about that, its all love
yeah right
you’re the one posting crap. colombine I don’t think so buddy, you’re the weirdo for even bringing that up.
Malik... I can't tell if you're kidding or not
… with all this American vs. Communist stuff. Please say you’re kidding…. lol
"deserve to win the game" doesnt matter
NBA is a make or miss league and regardless of how much one team “deserves to win the game” than the other, it doesnt matter in the win loss column. You feel?
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
if you say the call lost it for the Bucks
you don’t know basketball very well then. Coaches always say “don’t depend on the refs to win you the game. cuz if you do that, they’ll lose it for you too. play good enough to where the calls don’t matter.”
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
We agree on this
The Bucks certainly blew the chances they had. And the game was also certainly stolen from them by the refs. Both statements are true.
and the Lakers missed shots too
Could the Lakers have won by 10 points. No chance. Only with a gift call do they win by 1. If refs get the call right, Redd comes down hits a 3, Bucks get a stop, Ridnour hits a 3 they win by 10.
no we dont look very well, IF your looking for style points
but a win is a win. I mean, you guys havent looked that impressive in your wins on the road this year over bad teams. lol, see how stupid that sounds now? A road win is a road win and style points can go f*ck themselves if you ask me.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
bad calls happend
but they don’t happen for small market teams against big market teams at the end of the game. That never happens. Its not a bad call. Its a predetermined outcome. Stop talking about what else could have happened in the game. If the Bucks are that close they deserve a fair chance to win the game. Bucks didn’t lose by 25 points, then you can talk about the play of both teams. It was a very close game, a game the Lakers did not deserve to win and didn’t win, only for a pre determined outcome.
give up free throws?
every team misses shots. No team shoots 100% for a game. When a call is clearly a cheat and pre determined why do you talk about how the team that lost missed a shot earlier in the game? Of course they missed shots earlier in the game. Every team misses shots. The Lakers also missed shots that could have gotten them a 15 point vicotry and not gotten into overtime. Honestly. Answer that question. What does that have to do with the pre determined call?
it just means that the Bucks werent stolen the game on that 1 call
fact is, they were still up with 5 seconds to go and all their defense had to do was making 1 friggin stop and thats it. The game is over and nobody is even talking about that call. Yeah, I’ll admit it was the wrong call but I’m pretty shocked that all of you guys are so shocked that he got the call. You guys know how the NBA is. One of the reasons the league has been going downhill for a while….
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
wrong
if Bogut makes his FT with 20 seconds left in regulation, when Kobe misses the shot in regulation, refs just whistle Bell for the foul plain and simple. Then Kobe either hits 1 to tie or 2 to win. Only 1 1% chance he misses both and the Bucks win. In OT if Ilynosa makes both free throws at the buzzer Bell would again get whistled Kobe would get and an one and it wouuld go to the 2nd overtime. You are clueless if you don’t realize that.
Of course Kobe makes buzzer beaters, if he misses they just call a foul and put him at the line. Its called cheating. You’re the hater because you are Un-American and could care less about the US Constitution and the integrity of this country.
wow malik. wow.
you won’t give up with this conspiracy stuff. I think if there were predetermined calls, it wouldn’t happen in December against Milwaukee. It’d probably be in May against the Spurs or the Nuggets. relax man. it happened. just wait until Jan 31st when you guys beat the Lakers (JIM ROME: “allegedly”) and then start talking trash.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
lol
bynum has been setting kevin garnett screens the last few weeks… it is real funny cause he never gets called for them but i nthe last 2 games, hes been called for 1 in each.. and he knows it and doesnt argue lol..
i still dont know how garnett and bynum get away with them so much,,.
different angle of the play
perhaps not a charge after all?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2G6LymlDMk
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
wrong
you’re a propaganda artist and 100% Un-American, stop going on to you tube to post nonsense, its a charge end of story.
if that was Pierce....
you wouldnt be saying anything like this. ADMIT IT!
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
100% yes I would
I don’t like the call by Rondo on Brad Miller last year, I don’t like cheap calls ever. Don’t put words in my mouth.
damn man I think you need a hug....
(but not by me)
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
hey DRJ1
we are supposed to be on the same side here. I’m just backing up what you wrote and agreeing with you. You need teamwork to fight injustices.
We are on the same side...
…when it comes to this play, and the problems in the NBA. But there is no war going on. The Lakers fans who have come here have been mostly quite reasonable. In fact, we all mostly agree that (a) it was a bad call, and (b) the NBA needs to change.
I just think you must be kidding calling people un-American and Communist, etc., for not agreeing that the NBA conspired to make the Bucks lose this one game. There may be a conspiracy of sorts to give superstars calls and big-market teams wins… but that point is certainly up for debate.
But I will say this… you had me in tears (from laughter) with some of your posts :) It’s all good, one way or another.
I know
and actually I do it for laughs too and to have fun. Its just like these people cheat and lie so much its a way to get their attention. Of course the NBA has nothing to do with communism and stuff like that because its a sports game. However you do have to be a bit carefeul because the same mentality exists.
Who was the team in 1972 that refused their silver medals? Who was the team that protest the ridiculous calls at the end of the gold medal game. It was the USA, the same USA team that Kobe and LeBron played for. Don’t forget about Doug Collins and all the pioneers that came before all of us, those guys put their heart and soul into freedom and doing things right. Seems hypocritical for Kobe/LeBron plays that they get to often to agree with when in 1972 the entire USA team stood up to that sort of cheating by refs.
And of course it is all in good fun, the serious stuff is more for show than anything else.
haha
I thought you were serious for a second there about that whole communist stuff. I was like, wow this dude has really gone off the deep end….
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
yes
but youre the one talking about colombine. talk about going off the deep end I think you take the cake on that one.
haha i just thought of something off the top of mind
for some reason that came to mind at the time. I remember when that happened, one of the kids said that life was a whole conspiracy theory or soemthing. Reading your posts just made me think of that
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
notice bogut shuffled his feet
and if kobe didnt run into him he might not have got knocked off balance and taken a 3rd step
but whatever its a different angle
watching it live, it definitely looked like a charge, which is why i was surprised they didnt call that.
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
Kobe lowers his shoulder...
and barrels right into Bogut’s chest. I’ve seen that called a charge even when the defender was in the restricted zone! More than once. Bogut’s position is clearly established and this was a charge.
And then come the steps followed by a shot long after the contact… and they give him an and-1??? That was weird. No way around it, just plain weird.
Even if Bogut shuffled his feet
Kobe took a third step and as far as I know there is not continuation if a third step is made after the foul. So the refs stuffed up twice in one play.
The USA has the most talented players in the world but watching the NBA and the blasé umpiring discredits the league. Buzzer beaters and dunks sell. Its ridiculous watching Kobe and Lebron get the ball on a fast brake take a 2 (or 3) step run up to get extra speed before they dribble and get away with it every time. The reason why they call Euro players soft is because in their leagues they get called for a travel if they were to take 1 step before dribbling, thus they look slow and unsure when driving to the basket.
by Scal4theallstargame on Dec 17, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
video
and it looks like a charge too on both video angles. Exactly. Call it a charge. What are you scared of? What’s the big deal? Is LA going to riot? No so just call it a charge and be a man.
Okay, its a charge
and prolly a travel. I admitted that back in my earlier posts.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
thank you
welcome to the USA home of the Brave We are the World Voices that Care, Hands Across America, Statue of Liberty. CNN Heroes. Its all there. Glad you chose to join us.
hey
some of those people on CNN are real heroes, one dude worked 15 hours a day to hand out free meals to the poor. its not whatever to them they really care about people.
im not scared of anything
im presenting a different view of the play
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
Boguts foot is clearly moving at the point of contact
That’s a blocking foul everytime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2G6LymlDMk
Boguts foot is moving, Kobe only traveled because he was hit by Bogut. That was the right call. Lakers win
Foot movement is meaningless
The question is whether Bogut established his position, and whether the offensive player lowered his shoulder to initiate the contact. Both happened. I think you’re the only one here who actually thinks that was not a charge, Lakers fans included.
"Laker fans"
are just saying that in order to pretend to be civil. Your boy didn’t set his feet, therefore that is a blocking foul. If not then everybody would just jump out in front of guards penetrating the lane. Bogut is a soft flopper and got caught. Simple as that. Lakers win.
Kobe misses
they whistle a foul on Bell, game is fixed.
Yo Malik,
you got the Jags pullin of the upset tonight or you still got the Colts?
who knows
just want to see a fair game, love Peyton love the Colts, but Jags got good guys to, Garrard and Maurice are nice so lets just have fun and watch an athletic contest.
Jags will give them a big fight....
but I think they’ll do something stupid in the clutch like always and choke it away like they did on opening day.
by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Jags up 3-0
IM CALLING THE UPSET!!!! haha not really.
you never know
Jags could win, I’m going out though would rather try and hook up, getting a lap dance from Peyton Manning just isn’t going to cut it.
malik377
seen as to how you just became (yesterday) an SB Nation member…what’s up with the militant and political comments?
funny thing is that if he wasn't a Celtic fan.....
he would have been banned long ago. I guess it is a moderator oversight since hypocrisy is out of the question.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
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