Get Ryan Gomes
by Jeff Clark on Dec 22, 2009 6:57 AM EST
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintI've got this college buddy of mine that I love like a brother. A few years after college, he moved away for personal/logistical reasons. We keep in contact and he's doing wonderfully where he is so I'm happy for him, but obviously it isn't the same as having him around. I've recently got word that there's a chance that he could be coming back into the area. Needless to say, I'm excited. Things will be different of course. We both have families now and we've matured (a little). But I just know that he'll fit right in and we'll have a blast hanging out again.
That was my long winded analogy for how I feel about Ryan Gomes. I don't have any inside information or even a vague rumor to throw out there. All I have is a few guys on another site that have reminded me that the TWolves have an option on Ryan's contract at the end of the year and there's a chance (however slim) that they could release him or trade him to a team that would release him for cap flexibility reasons.
If such a glorious event were to occur, you can bet that I'll be leading the charge to urge the Celtics to bring him back to Boston (where he belongs). You see, I've always thought that Ryan was more valuable to the Celtics than he would be to any other team. Sure he's got enough talent to make it work anywhere, but he's also a tweener that isn't capable of being the first, second, or perhaps even 3rd option on a team seeking alpha-males to lead them. What he is, however, is a great glue guy that does all the little things you need to win basketball games.
One man's tweener is another man's versatile utility infielder. Much like a taller Marquis Daniels he would fill multiple roles on the currently constituted Celtics roster. He'd be that big 3 that has eluded Doc for many a year. He would spell Pierce (which would have a noticeable trickle down effect on the rest of the roster) and he could fill in at the 4 in smaller lineups. He's even developed a reliable jumper that would fit perfectly into Doc's offensive schemes (floor spacing) and he's bright enough to pick up the defense quickly I'm sure.
In terms of personality, you couldn't ask for a better lockerroom and community guy. He was Mr. Ubuntu before Doc introduced that term to the team in '07. Even as a youngster, he was wise beyond his years and there were times when he looked and sounded like a veteran (and maybe at the time he was one of the older players on the team). I can't find the quotes at this moment but when he was traded away, Danny Ainge singled him out as being one of his favorite people and talked about how hard it was to include him in the deal.
The sad thing for his perspective is that he never got to taste that Championship and he has had to toil (with Al Jefferson) on another rebuilding team. We've been able to move on and put those rebuilding years behind us. He has had to relive them over again in another town.
If the Wolves don't plan on releasing him but don't see him as a fixture in their long term plans, I'd be more than willing to use a few of our expiring contracts to swing a deal for him. Perhaps the rejuvenated Tony Allen and JR Giddens could get it done?
Ryan hasn't turned into an All Star or anything, but I don't think that was his fate anyway. He has steadily improved his game over the years and would be a great addition to a championship contender.
If there's any chance of getting him back in green, nothing would make me happier. Just like seeing an old friend move back into town.
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Chuckle.
I guess I’ll never understand the ongoing fascination with the guys who helped us lose 58 games a few years back.
Pass on Ryan Gomes.
really?
I take it that would include Pierce as well since he was on that roster. Perk and Rondo too for that matter.
How about Garnett since you’re at it? He played on some really lousy teams in Minnesota. You could toss Ray into that category too.
Based on your reasoning, anyone who played on a crappy team must be a lousy player. That’ll make for a very select roster of players that’s never played for a losing team, ever.
good rebuttle
The big 2 were all on lottery teams before teaming up
KG hadnt been in the plaoffs for 3 straight seasons
As far Gomes, i dont see how we get him but he certrainly would be a nice backup for this team
agreed on Gomes
I think Gomes would be a solid player for us off the bench. During his time here he showed a high BB IQ, hustled and had talent—could shoot, rebound and defend.
I thought
Nocioni coming made too much sense not to happen?
by Black Jack Pershing on Dec 22, 2009 8:27 AM EST reply actions
hyperbole is a blogger's friend and enemy
I think Noc would still make sense, but Gomes would be so much better
thankfully Danny’s the GM and not me because sometimes you just have to wait for things like this to pop up rather than react in the moment, ya know?
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Great Point Jeff
When I read a lot of the posters, I have the feeling that if they were the GM of the Celtics, that the 15 guys we end the season with would not be the 15 guys we began with.
There’s so many variables that have to be taken into consideration. Patience is definitely needed. It’s all a chess match.
Noc or Gomes
I love Noc because of his toughness, but as many have pionted out his contract is expensive for a 15-20 min role. Gomes on the other hand is Noc clone but comesat at a small cost.
I agree with Jeff if we can get him for say Scal and Jr, I would do it.
defense is hard to judge on a bad team
even if Gomes makes all the right moves, if his teammates aren’t covering for him, he looks bad
so I don’t know how good a defender he is or would be, but I think he’s smart enough to pick up the system and would work hard enough at it to be just as good as the next guy
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Down with my man Gomes....
but do we really need another undersized 4 on the team?
Gomes Can't Defend a Chair
Sorry, great kid, but no lateral mobility and no hops. On defense he does all the little things to lose games, too.
maybe for Scal?
I could see MIN wanting to also offload the dumb (though not huge) contract they gave Sessions. I haven’t checked the numbers but Scal + TA + Giddens might be pretty close and would give them a lot of cap relief.
However, it’s clear the losing is getting to Big Al and I think he and Gomes are sorta close so getting rid of him would be risky itn terms of keeping Al happy.
by Gainesville Celtic on Dec 22, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
How do you explain him always giving Pierce problems, and the celtics barely scoring 90 on them, when he sat out we score 122?
Would u want Al jefferson back? hes the worst big man defender maybe in NBA history
Worst big man defender in NBA history?
good lord man, did Mikki Moore fade from your memory from just last year?
Skippy Blount stunk far worse too.
I think Al is capable of playing good D. I can understand some concern that he hasn’t shown it yet but I think the ability is there if he gets the right player/coaching support. He can certainly do a lot to secure defensive boards which is a step in the right direction.
I really dont think Al is a better defender then Mikki Moore…yeah hes THAT bad…worse then zach randolph..who by the way gets criticized for putting up numbers on bad teams, yet Jefferson never has done anything different, and right now randolph is having the better year, his teams winning more games and hes actually giving more effort then Jefferson on defense…Sorry but Big Al is a terrible, clueless defensive player
I doubt the Wolves let him go
But then again they’re run by Stern lapdog David Kahn, who took Rubio and Flynn over Jennings and Williams, so I guess anything could happen.
A better Gomes, not that the Cs could get him, is Jonas Jerebko, the 2nd-rounder who started for the Pistons while Rip was out. The kid is 6’9", can stroke it from outside, and was the guy they had guarding Kobe. And LeBron. And T-Mac. And the opponent’s best offensive player generally. He isn’t a star, but he’s the ultimate Gomes-esque glue guy, with much better quicks.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Updated Version of Posey
I could see bringing Ryan in as a updated James Posey type… he has a different set of intangibles from Posey but i feel what he brings would be effective and help the Celtics.
The best thing Danny did was to keep the youngster who could play great D--especially Perk and Rondo.
Baby and Sheed offer plenty of offense at the 4, I don’t see what problem Gomes would be solving.
think of it like this...
He takes Scal’s place on the roster playing the 3/4 spots and does the things we want Scal to do (reasonably do that is) like rebounding, shoot with consistancy and defend. You know, someone who’s actually productive on the floor.
Scal’s not the only one with “intangibles”. Gomes has that and actually produces things that will show up in a box score too.
why are people acting like Paul Pierce or Ray Allen are good defenders?
Who have they stayed in front of this season, and before coming to boston were notoriously terrible low effort defensive players
hmm... Pierce and Allen are
40% of the starting lineup – and the two floor minutes leaders – on arguably the best defensive team in the league…
Whatever they did before these last couple years, i’d think it hard to say they aren’t playing pretty good defense right now …
paul pierce is a great defender..
remmeber how he stopped kobe in the 4th quarters in the finals
So quick to judge his defense...
I find it hard to believe that many people on this blog watch enough Minnesota Timberwolves games to really know how good or bad Ryan Gomes’ defense is. The kid is still pretty young, and we saw players magically get better on defense when KG got to them.
Follow me @jimmy_toscano
Jimmy
I made my post before I saw yours
I think I made your point, though.
by Tom Halzack on Dec 22, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Not so sure about that
Rondo and Perk didn’t “magically get better at defense” when KG got here. They were good to begin with.
Agreed…I never buy into any of that
if KG singlehandedly turned around everybodys defense and the franshise (which i hear all the time) then why couldnt he do that in minnesotta? they hadnt made the playoffs in 3 years, and his owner accused him of tanking it once he left…
The player has to buy in under his own will, not KGs
Love Ryan Gomes
But the defensive questions are fair. He has never developed as much at that end of the floor as I thought he could.
I still think he can be a very good defender. I think the same about Al Jefferson. Neither are very good. What does the team emphasize?
Why do you think the Celtics set a season high on fast breaks against that team?
I can never understand why more teams don’t stress defensive priorities more – individually and team-wise.
Not to pick on the Wolves. That’s true about a lot of teams (most?).
My point is Gomes is not a good defender, but I think he could be if that is what the team wanted him to be…especially on a team like the Celtics. This team has Perkins, Garnett, and Wallace to funnel to or fall back on if you play aggressive defense. That can sometimes mean overplaying and getting beat. The help is there.
There were times (and match ups) that Gomes did very well defensively as a Celtic. I remember a solid game against Zach Randolph (of all people), where Doc challenged Ryan to step up…and he did.
So the Zach Randolphs of the world aren’t where Gomes will earn his money. But in short minutes, with work, he can do a very good job against a host of match ups, IMO.
The team’s philosophy is important, and I don’t remember reading anywhere that the Wolves said they would hang their hat on defense – pre or post Rambis.
Now..will he be a defensive factor against Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo? I’m not that wishful.
And he has become a versatile offensive player. Yet…my days of expecting more out Ryan, (I really believed he could be something more than he has become), are put to rest.
Still he is a pretty good player.
Who’s minutes would he cut into? Daniels and Davis’, I suppose?
I know this an exercise in daydreaming
But I like Gomes and had some definite opinions about his career.
Sorry for the burst of ‘babbling’ as our young friend Steve Weinman used to say.
i’ll pass too. I like the mad dog type players. gomes is the last guy i expect to dive for a loose ball. i can’t picture him hitting the floor. has he?
by cornbreadsmart on Dec 22, 2009 11:18 AM EST reply actions
Did you watch the Celts before 2008?
Gomes is a “mad dog type” player. He is not flashy but gets the job done
by PierceMVP08 on Dec 22, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
gomes was definitely a hustle player
Don’t know what you were watching before the big trade but Gomes was Mr. Hustle. Always had a habit of making good things happen when he was on the floor.
So… what am I missing about why the Wolves would let him go? A little more cap flexibiliy for what? How many premier free agents are lining up to sign in Minny? He’s not a great player by any stretch, but he’s one of their better players, he’s cheap, he’s young and he’s still improving….
Why again do the Wolves want to dump him?
You see, I’ve always thought that Ryan was more valuable to the Celtics than he would be to any other team. Sure he’s got enough talent to make it work anywhere, but he’s also a tweener that isn’t capable of being the first, second, or perhaps even 3rd option on a team seeking alpha-males to lead them. What he is, however, is a great glue guy that does all the little things you need to win basketball games.
Offensively, Gomes is a solid glue guy offensively but defensively he’s a liability. Both at the three and at the four (where his rebounding is also a liability). That detracts from the positive contributions he’s making offensively which lowers his impact as a role player overall. This stops Gomes from being a high quality role player.
Offensively = solid rather than great (by role player standards) = largely due to mediocre scoring efficiency (TS% 53%) + passing is only an above average skill when at the four.
=============
In contrast, a guy like James Posey (three years ago) was a very good defender + good rebounder (as a SF) and an excellent glue guy offensively due to his shooting ability + scoring efficiency. There were no major weaknesses (for a role player) that detracted from his value. It was consistent positive contributions in each area of the game.
The upgrade a player like Posey provided over a player like Gomes was huge.
============
The Celtics shouldn’t be trying to bring in expensive flawed role players like Ryan Gomes … they don’t impact the game enough in a positive fashion. Their positive contributions aren’t large enough (scoring efficiency), and their negative contributions (defense) take away a good chunk of what little positives they offer. Players like this are not high end or even mediocre role players (rotation wise).
Ryan Gomes is a low level rotation player. The Celtics can do much better for themselves … especially if we’re talking about the type of money he’s set to earn.
The Wolves should waive Gomes this summer. That’s a bad contract + the cap space is far more valuable.
Rebuilding teams like the Wolves shouldn’t be giving long term money to role players unless they’re exceptional (which Gomes isn’t). That eliminated cap space takes too many options off the table, and, the reward is simply too small for that to be worthwhile for them.
ryan gomes has been one of my fav players since his days playing in providence..
on the day of his nba draft he last till about number 50 or something and im like what…?!? i knew he was going to be a good player… hes not a PF but hes not really a SF… hes kinda wierd… but he is a good role player in the nba.. great of the bench and just a average starting lineup player… every championship team needs a unselfish guy who hustles on their team and this guy may be the guy
I`ll pass on Gomes...
I liked him as a rookie, when he started plenty of games beginning in Feb.
He had a knack of getting lots of “tip-in baskets” on missed shots.
But overall…I would definitely pass on him.
At 6`7", and lacking quickness….he needs to play with much more passion & fire!!!
Good idea if he were available but...
He’s the third most productive player on the team AHEAD OF AL JEFFERSON
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910MIN.HTM
I don’t see them letting him go, especially if McHale isn’t making the decisions! 8^)
Nice topic
I liked him because he was better than his draft position, ie value. I could see him fitting in here and most players can improve their defense. You always need desire. I assume Gomes can show that (not certain though). You do not need “hops”. Nothing wrong with it but there are a lot of NBA epitaphs that say “had hops though”. Lateral quickness is necessary but exceptional lateral quickness is rare. Average will do. Better than aveage game IQ would help and he seems to have that. So, I agree that he would be a good guy to have.
I would not include Tony Allen in a trade right now. I know that a couple games does not a new TA prove but Good Tony is a weapon that a championship team needs.
Why the Nocioni talk? Doesn’t anyone else read the box scores?
i'd guess it would be nearly impossible for the Twolves to send him back here
it would be a shame to them that way considering he is one of the key pieces for which they traded KG.
possibility remains that they might choose not to renew his contract, though
by friedgreentomatoes on Dec 22, 2009 1:17 PM EST reply actions
they don't need him
Big Baby, Sheldon are much better. Gomes reminds me of a fool’s gold. Nice guy, wonderful speaker, does a lot out there on the court for a tweener but in the end he ain’t fooling anyone. For example. Remember Leon Powe. Same body almost, but what a sup[erior and more affective player.Powe is excitement, action, power, bang, bang. Gomes is boring by comparison.. He is going to help Cleveland. Gomes would never help us.the same way.
C's should start looking down the road a bit...
I do like Gomes, but like alot of people I think he’s a solid rotation guy on a good playoff team. He chose to sign a multi year deal with the Wolves, so I guess he’d prefer to be a starter on a Lottery team.
NO GOMES, PLEASE
I couldn’t agree more with the very first comment that was made to this post. I will NEVER understand why everyone on this website is so in love with Ryan Gomes.
You would guess with the way some people talk about him that he and Michael Jordan were one in the same. In the meantime, Gomes was nothing more than a key player on a 58 loss team back in 2006-07.
And on top of that, we are currently the best team in the NBA. But, we still need Ryan Gomes? Pass….There are many, many more players I’d rather have than Gomes.
And for those that say Gomes is a better player than Nocioni, think again. Just because someone is younger, doesn’t instantly make them a better player.
Let me guess, next post will be “Let’s bring back Gerald Green, Sczerbiak, Delonte West and Al Jefferson.”
?
you wouldn’t take back Al Jefferson (if it could be done at a reasonable cost)?
I find it hard to believe anyone who’s followed the C’s would ever lump Al in with Gerald in any regard other than one: “former Celtic players”.
He's not long...
…not tall and not quick. He is a nice reserve player, seems to be of high morale character, good basketball IQ, with limited NBA ability. I suppose he’s the opposite of Tony Allen.
wolves wing problems
given the wolves lack of punch on the wing (they start d wilkens) maybe they’d consider swapping gomes for tony allen.
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