Marquis Daniels Has Surgery
by Jeff Clark on Dec 9, 2009 10:19 AM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintNot good news via the Celtics twitter:
Marquis Daniels had surgery this morning to repair a torn ligament in his left thumb. No time table on his return
So, more of Tony Allen and Scalabrine? If he's out for a long time, I wonder if a move could be made.
Red's Army talked to a Pacers blogger a few days ago about Daniels and his history of injuries. It is worth a read.
Jared Wade: During his three years in Indiana, Marquis played 45, 74 and 54 games - but it felt like less. It was frustrating because when he did play, he was a solid, if unspectacular contributor. It's just that he was always in and out of the lineup so much that it wasn't just the missed games, but all of the wasted time reintegrating him into the lineup every month.
Update: Dan Duggan of the Herald reports that he'll be out 6 to 8 weeks. That means late January at the earliest, most likely early February.
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Bad news.
I hope Marquis heals well and soon because we’re in trouble if we have to rely on TA during his absence. I have no idea of how long he could be out, maybe a month?
It definitely could lead to a trade, yep.
Uh....
What? Surgery? No Timetable? More TA?
Serenity now
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
... please ...
please, no more Scal :(
- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
Twitter: @4Hoopz
If Scal is the answer, I may go into hiding
Either A mircale happens and TA becomes dependable on the team makes a move for another wing (in addition to a real backup PG)
Ugh, horrible news.
If we’re ever trading for Nocioni, now’s the time. Scal, TA, Walker/Giddens, take on that contract. Roster spot is freed up; maybe Lue gets a uniform to be the third PG, as well.
I'd wait until Daniels comes back before we find his replacement
We can make the proposed trade at the deadline and not now. There’s no need to make a panic trade at this point. The trade market won’t open up for reals until January/February. Until then TA and Scal get there chances…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 9, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
exactly
i’d like to see TA get more mins. and scal doesnt.(hopefully davis will be back soon)
by friedgreentomatoes on Dec 9, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
If you’re going to make a move at the deadline anyway, why would you wait? You really expect TA to turn the corner and become a consistent contributor now? You really want Paul and Ray to have more 35+ minute games?
You wait because it gives you time to assess what you exactly need
Maybe somebody else gets hurt in the next 2 months and instead of looking to replace Daniels (who will be back by the All-Star game), we need to replace the newly hurt player. You don’t panic to replace a 20 minute a night player who’s only going to miss 2 months in December.
Personally, I’d wait until we find what the market will bear and see the true worth of our expirings (which won’t happen until Jan/Feb when teams start to fall out of contention and make decisions to cut salary) while using the next 2 months to see what TA/Scal/Walker/Hudson can give us. Panic trades usually don’t work out…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 9, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I agree no trade right now, but I would be looking hard at Antonio Daniels for a Vet min deal. I know it means cutting Hudson, but that’s life. The loss of Quisy hurts 2 ways. Now Eddie is playng PG, UGH! And there’s no real sub for PP (except TA who may or may not play well or Ray, which increases his minutes).
Although I can live with TA playing minutes early in a game but not the 4th, the combination of TA and Eddie together scares me. Also, if Eddie spells Ray with Rondop then we have a midget backcourt not good. Further when Eddie is at PG, he is not as efficient in his role as designated shooter. I’ve been plugging Daniels just because he would give us a good backup PG optiion and he could at time backup PP especially against 2nd teamers.
This is a lost cost alternative to fix a short term problem and has a added benefit of providing depth for this season. The other alternative is to use our expiring contracts and incur long term debt for a player who will be out 6-8 weeks and plays only 20 mins. I think, if we trade the expiring contracts it should be for someone who can really put us over the top for a banner or someone with real future potential.
I;m OK with picking up Daniels but
I would rather cut Giddens than Hudson. Not much contract to eat and he’s gone anyway after this season.
Definitely concur on holding on to those expirings. They will be gold at the deadline.
Daniels came with an injury prone rap
So this isn’t really a surprise…but it sounds like he’s been playing with it for a while now. That’s some pretty high tolerance for pain.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 9, 2009 9:58 AM EST reply actions
Nocioni just got more expensive
Doc just has to not overplay Ray and Paul no matter what. If that means TA for 12 minutes so be it. Keep Ray and PP under 35 for heavens sake thats all we ask
This could be as long as until the all star break but he should be 100% by that time.
TA can pick up the slack till the All-Star break...
TA gets another chance. Let’s hope he can stay healthy for 2 months until Daniels gets back…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 9, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions
Walker, Hudson, TA, Scal
All these guys are capable of filling in the gaps in the next 2 months. Doc just has to make sure he gives them minutes and doesn’t fall back on overplaying Ray/Paul…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 9, 2009 10:02 AM EST reply actions
Bill Walker
I think I’d like to call him up from Maine now
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
I second that.
At least we’ll have Daniels for the second half of the season (hopefully). Is this similar to Davis’s injury at all?
Yip yip. Agreed.
I’m actually pretty excited about seeing BBD and Skywalker back in games. I would love to see them get some serious burn during the season so that they’re ready come playoffs.
Seriously, I would enjoy every turnover, every missed shot as long as they got some time.
- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
Twitter: @4Hoopz
Other than being a monster dunker
I’ve not really seen other aspects of Walker’s game that merit court time. Granted, I’ve not really seen him on the court much, either, but from my limited viewings, seems like he has a PF’s game stuffed into a 6’6, 220 frame. Hope I’m wrong about that.
what is walker going to do? can't shoot
can’t defend and has bad knees. boston needs a legit wing and a legit #2 PG
by celticinorlando on Dec 9, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
This was predictable
So, after an offseason in which Doc made clear that we needed to get three things—a backup big, a backup PG, and a backup wing—we have no backup wing, and no backup PG.
TA is a net minus. I only hope the people who are now including him in the rotation are newbie fans, not people who ever saw TA get regular minutes, because if they did (see TA get regular minutes) and still think he can help, they’re completely mistaken. He simply sucks.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
They Need a Backup PG
They needed one before Daniels got hurt and now they need one more than ever. It sounds like Daniels will be out a month, at least.
Players like Nocioni and Walker won’t solve the problem. What are you people thinking? If Rivers wants to solve his frontcourt problems, he can put Scalabrine at the end of the bench and play Shelden Williams until BBD gets back.
I agree that we shouldn't make a desperation trade now and wait until February
But still, Doc must keep in mind that he doesn’t have to play Ray or Paul more than 33 minutes a game and burn them during the season because they have no reliable backup anymore. Give a chance to Walker or TA but don’t overplay Ray and Paul!
I'm with most here.
Find some spot minutes between the Walker, T Allen, Hudson, Scal, and even Giddens group to not overplay Ray and Paul.
It can be done if Doc is creative. I think the second quarter is a good part of the game especially if we have a small lead to get these guys just a little extra burn.
Yeah, it's in Doc's hands now
Doc needs to show better awareness of his minute allocation. He blew it last season when TA got hurt, and this season he needs to learn from that mistake.
To me, Daniels’ injury presents two major problems: no distributor on the 2nd team, and backup 2/3 depth. To address those two issues, Doc needs to start playing Rondo more, and specifically more with the 2nd unit. And then he needs to use more of TA/Walker/Scal/Hudson to give Ray and Paul breathers in the 2nd and late 3rd, early 4th.
The player most hurt by this injury is Eddie House, who still hasn’t managed to master the skill of dribbling and shooting well in the same game.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 9, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
DANNY CALL UP BILL WALKER ASAP..........
Lets give him some serious minutes so we can finally see what the kid can do.
I think if given the minutes Walker can give us some great minutes and be the defending small forward we need to defend against the athletic, big strong and quick small forwards that give our defense so much problems.
Big Baby is needed
he can take Scal’s minutes when we trade Big Red for a 3
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Marquis gets an INC on his report card
I know Doc loves the guy and he has had some good moments but overall my impression of Marquis has been that he’s a player who could do a lot more than what he’s shown so far. Maybe the injury has limited what he can do so I’ll give him a pass there but it looks like a wasted year for him and possibly Baby as well. If our bench doesn’t get healthy and productive , our starters are going to get worn out. The last thing I’ll say about marquis is how come he didn’t address this injury sooner?
2009-10 : "The Season of Surgery"
Bill Walker…Big Baby…Marquis Daniels
Sadly, once again…Celtic enemies have their voodoo dolls working 24/7/365
The positive?
Its Bill walker….Big baby…and Marquis Daniels..
and not
Kevin Garnett… Paul Pierce… and Rondo
At least, not yet...
But, I`m now waiting for the “other shoe to drop”.
Oh oh oh don't jinx it damnit >_<
Though this post is probably worse because you wouldn’t have thought about the jinx if it weren’t for me right here… so you can put the blame on me if that makes you feel better.
… if things go wrong, at all.
I don’t hope so :x
ARGH PARANOID1
- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
Twitter: @4Hoopz
who wudda thunk
it would be the youngsters?
Fortunately all three have been of the ‘fixable’ variety.
Now is the Time for someone to emerge
My guess is that it will be Tony Allen, but then he will get hurt after about two weeks of play.
So my second guess is Bill Walker finally getting time and showing the promise we all know he is capable of.
neither tony nor walker are capable of playing big minutes
on either end of the floor. and scal isn’t either. boston needs to make a move to solidify the SG-SF position now
by celticinorlando on Dec 9, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Baby coming back should solidify the bench a bit...
They do miss Baby’s rebounding and interior scoring. Scal & TA are only good in blowouts or in spot minutes when Doc needs them to burn some PF.
Last night the bench combined for 19 pts, 9 PF, 4 TO, .6 St, 5 REB, 3 ST, 0 Blks.
They need more boards and points from the bench if they want to keep up this winning page. Eventually the starters will wear down if Doc is playing them +35 minutes every game.
???
Baby’s “rebounding and interior scoring”? Are we both talking about Glen Davis? His and Rasheed’s rebounding and interior scoring, or lack thereof, are exactly why Williams and Perk need to play more.
I agree and disagree with you....
To begin I agree with you that Baby is not a very good rebounder or interior scorer .
We know Perk is far better in both regards.
I also agree that Shelden Williams is by far a better re bounder and interior scorer than Baby due to his very long wing span that allows him to rebound and shoot over opponents far better than Baby can with his short wing span.
I respectively disagree though with your assessment that Rasheed is also a bad rebounder and interior scorer.
1st: Rasheed is not rebounding alot for us this year because (unlike Perk and Williams who position themselves close to the basket to grab rebounds) Rasheed for the most part is out of rebound position and away from the basket behind the 3 point line waiting to get the ball to shoot his 3 pointer he is in love with.
When he does get in the paint, though he is not a great rebounder he is a decent one.
2nd: Rasheed is a great low post scorer, again when he gets in the paint.
He has a great knack to get postion in his sweet spot and gets off alot of easy shots against most of his opponents with his great size and length.
He has a assorted low post arsenal, with his best low post scoring move being that beautiful, unstoppable, fall away jump shot.
When he does play close to the hoop , he is aloveshootat the top o on top of the the has a If hdue
The bench would be solidified more...
if we could turn BBD into a wing player. I fail to see how getting a 5th healthy big helps us offset the loss of Daniels. If we could turn BBD into a player like Dooling, Foye, etc. then yeah.
too bad for marquis, but it’s not the big 3. let’s see what tony can do ans walker is always nearby and baby will be coming soon.
TA
Still amazed by the lack of appreciation for what Tony brings to this team: namely, outstanding perimeter defense. In case no one’s noticed, there are some pretty decent 2-3’s in the league that Tony can help us stop…. But yeah, this just means Rondo and Perk need to play more. I’m pretty comfortable with a Rondo, Tony/House, Walker, Sheed, Perkins/Sheldon lineup. I wish I had more confidence in Doc’s ability to manage Ray and Pierce’s minutes.
I'm NOT content-- Not At All
The problem is that the offense stagnates when House is running it. He stands around and dribbles too much, does not penetrate, does not have a pg’s feel for the game.
It was better with Daniels playing “point forward” alongside House but now Daniels is gone.
Bill Walker won’t fix the problem, Nocioni won’t fix the problem. BBD won’t fix the problem. Gerald Wallace won’t fix the problem. None of those guys create opportunities for the guys around them (except possibly BBD, who is an excellent passer).
They can survive at the wing positions until Daniels returns. TA and Giddens can provide some defense, and I’d like to see what Hudson can do with some meaningful minutes at sg to give Ray some additional rest.
A real, honest to goodness NBA backup pg WILL fix the problem. Now that Devin Harris is back, maybe the Nets can be persuaded to part with Rafer Alston or Keon Dooling, especially if the Celtics are willing to throw in some cash.
You said it, Brick
It’s about a lack of playmaking on the 2nd unit…
To me, the in-house fix is changing rotations, giving Rondo more of the bridge-the-2nd-unit responsibility, moving Hudson, TA, and Walker into the rotation, and subbing in House early to play with the 1st unit more.
But, knowing Doc, he’s going to lean on Ray/Paul more, and overplay Eddie House. Will Doc learn from last season? Probably not.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 9, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
deja vu
Well I’m trying to get my head around it ,I have said in a few posts of mine that as soon as tony got back doc would throw him right in , so its one of two things either giddens ,walker, hudson are just not ready and never will be because they can’t seem to even see garbage time or Doc’s stubborness when it comes to young guys is going to be our downfall .tony allen is and always was bad in every sence turnovers can’t shoot wildly out of control and can’t defend on the level he gets pumped up to be on.which would the rest of my C fan bretheren like to see same ole tony or a mix of walker giddens and hudson so we can actually see why danny drafted them and know that we are not just wasting pics I mean for all intents and purposes we are gonna trade or let them go anyway .our bench is going to make or break us and if its up to doc probably the latter.sorry to say that but what happens if we can’t trade for a solid point and wing what are we gonna do
by reggie_35 on Dec 9, 2009 12:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Not Doc's fault for lack of minutes for Giddens/Walker/Hudson
In case you hadn’t noticed, this team is deep this year and they’re simply aren’t minutes available. Now with Daniels out, they still might not get a shot since TA and Scal are ahead of them.
Quote me on this we will not hang #18 if we do not have a solid back up point and someone to give paul and ray ray rest as well as having another post presence we only have one big that plays in the paint thank you perk.it is what it is
by reggie_35 on Dec 9, 2009 12:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
check out my trade idea in the "Jared Bayless???" thread
and props to Nick for pushing it…
I nearly did a spittake
this is a worst joke than people talking about Iverson.
Daniels logged 20 minutes per game
and while doing so averaged roughly 6 points 2 rebounds and 2 assists… those are numbers that can be made up on this roster elsewhere.
Daniels has not been healthy since the Indiana game when the injury occured. After every home game trainers would come in and ice the hell out of his hand. You could see one hand was swollen compared to the other. I asked him a few times if it bothered him, but he just shrugged and said not really- but you could see that it had to be bothering him.
Point is, he hasen’t been playing even close to his potential for the last couple of weeks and we have gone on an 8 game winning streak in that time. The loss of Daniels can be made up between TA, Hudson, House, Giddens, and Walker if he returns. We should be thankful that the injury isnt to a player that means more to this team right now and hope that he comes back 100%. I think Tony Allen knows this is his last chance to prove he deserves playing time.
Follow me @jimmy_toscano
according to Daniels
as para-quoted on the radio a couple of days ago, the injury was tolerable until he caught a ‘Nolan Ryan’ Rondo fastball pass in practice. That exacerbated it and made the surgery to finally fix it a necessity.
Rondo really does put some smoke on the ball. Remember the cross-court one-handed pass he threw to Pierce … with his LEFT hand a few weeks ago?
I agree that people should not panic. No team gets through the season without some injuries and that’s why there is depth on the roster.
Doc's biggest flaw
…is his lack of imagination. He can’t imagine that Lester Hudson might be an excellent backup PG in his first year, so he won’t even give him a chance. Doc just doesn’t know how to deal with rookies, never did.
Doc's "lack of imagination"
He showed no imagination when he ended up with Rajon Rondo as our point guard, with him WINNING the position over West and Telfair.
Doc is at practice with the team. Doc coaches the team as they play. Do you think Doc would not put Hudson in if he ready. Us fans have seen him for 20 minutes. Doc has seen him since training camp. Of all the guys not playing I think Hudson has the best chance of making it. He should be put in when he is ready and has a chance to be successful. If he’s not ready he will fail and that would hurt his career wherever it might be.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
No TA please
I can’t believe TA is once again being discussed as an opiton. I never want to see him in a Celtics uniform again. When will the TA era finally end? 8 years from now, whoever the Celtics starting SG is at that time will go down with an injury, and there will be a thread on this board where people will still be saying “it might be the chance TA has been waiting for to show what he can do”. After all, remember that great month he had back in 2006? Ugh. This is actually a perfect chance for TA to perform the greatest service he ever has in his career as a Celtic, by acting as trade bait with his expiring contract. They need a backup 2 who can actually play for 2 straight minutes without getting faked out and fouling a jumpshooter or dribbling the ball off his foot. I would rather see Brittney Griner out there as the backup 2.
Lol
No matter how much you hate TA, he’s much better than Giddens right now, and possibly ever be. Sorry.
by Tai on Dec 9, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe but
in TA’s first minutes back on the floor in the Buck’s game, what did he do? Took a wild charging shot and was called for an offensive foul. When that happened, I thought, “same old TA”. Sad, really.
Actually
In his first minutes, he found Ray Allen for a 3 and later posted up and got to the line…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 10, 2009 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
it was not wild
and it was not a charge. it was called a charge but a charge it was not. I know he’s the whipping boy but there is a reason he’s playing above giddens and walker, because he is a better option. He made smart plays when out there and didn’t force the issue. I was impressed with his play in those short minutes and disapointed that Doc went with Eddie at the 2 which hurt us in the 4th (mostly cause Eddie couldn’t hit a shot to save his life that night). Give the guy a break. His teammates like him and he’ll prove to be valuable in the near future.
Relax people
Who was the backup wing that absolutely destroyed the C’s in last year’s playoffs? Pietrus. He was oft injured and largely ineffective most of the season, but came alive in the playoffs. As long as Daniels is healthy for the stretch run, all will be fine. In the meantime, they have a few players they can mix and match for 12-15 minutes a game.
BBD !!!
BBD is supposed to play the three position now anyways – so we’re okay (LOL)
TIME TO TRADE SCAL AND TONY FOR A WING
no more messing around…scal, giddens and tony are going to add zero to this team.
I freak'n knew it!!!
Quiiiiiizzzzzyyy!!!! If he is gonna be out like I thought he would be eventually than we have to make a trade or gAmble on giddens and walker. I think walker is ready for minutes but I don’t think he will stay healthy. Giddens is a solid defender but is terrified to shoot or attempt to score on offense. God forbid he and rondo would play together teams wouldn’t guard either from 12 feet out. Sheed is fat and slow and only plays forhalf of the minutes he gets. Glen is due back in a few weeks…and once he is back he will have some serious conditioning to build up. We are improving our play but injuries and yes lack of depth is going to wear us down quickly. I think we need to find a way to trade for some body. Preferably a sf who can shoot or create and play D or combo guard who can play D and isn’t afraid to shoot! I don’t see it happening but u never know there are a whole bunch of bad teams that would love to clear cap space and aquire expiring contracts…ta giddens scal….etc.
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