Elite vs. Elite

by Jeff Clark on Feb 13, 2009 10:29 PM EST in Boston Celtics News & Links

After the Spurs game, I threw this stat out there:

Celtics are now 1 - 4 vs. the teams that are legit title contenders this year (LA, Cleveland, San Antonio).

Cleveland blog WaitingForNextYear had the following to say about that:

I wonder if they don’t count Orlando because they don’t believe in Orlando’s chances or because they are 2-0 against Orlando and so it would make that stat look much different? Anyway, the Cavaliers are 1-5 against Boston, LA, and Orlando (haven’t played San Antonio yet). The Magic are 0-2 against Boston, 1-0 against Cleveland, 2-0 against the Lakers, and 2-0 against the Spurs. That’s an incredible 5-2 record against the NBA’s elite. Perhaps it goes to show you how devastating the Jameer Nelson injury really is.

To answer the blogger, yes - I'm writing off the Magic because of Jameer and because I think they were a half step behind the Cavs and Celtics before that happened (regardless of the records).

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Cavs are not doing well against contenders as well. Hmm.

by NoraG1 on Feb 13, 2009 10:56 PM EST reply actions

Half step behind?

I have to agree with WaitingForNextYear about the 2-0 record and perceptions. Many Celtics fans think the Magic were a step behind is because they went 0-2 against the Celts, while the other teams beat the Celts. Ask a Lakers or Spurs fan, and they will probably be more impressed by Orlando.

Reminds me of Groucho Marx not wanting to be a member of any club that would have him as a member.

by guava_wrench on Feb 13, 2009 11:39 PM EST reply actions

The Magic are with the Cavs, Lakers, and Celtics if Nelson is healthy.

Looking at point differential (not to mention the actual on-court results), it’s obvious that Cleveland (9.8), Boston (9.3), the Lakers (8.3), and Orlando (8.1) have separated themselves from the rest of the league in the first half of the season. One can’t count out San Antonio (+3.3) given its history, but those are the 5 title contenders.

But now that Nelson’s out, the Magic are no longer in the championship conversation. You were right to exclude them from the “elite” category in your “1-4 against contenders” claim.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation

by Evan Dunlap on Feb 13, 2009 11:53 PM EST reply actions

But didn’t we beat them with Nelson playing but I agree their status drop alot without their starting PG.

by NoraG1 on Feb 14, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions

I think a couple of more western teams could be in the mix by the time the playoffs happen.
( Utah, Houston, Denver?)

by liamail on Feb 14, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I partially disagree

Pre Nelson’s injury, the Magic were a legit contender. I was hoping they would eliminate Cleveland, they already gave them problems last season. Certainly a team with enough quality to win it all, I wouldn’t consider them less favourites than the C’s, Lakers or Cavs.

Now I agree, they can make the Conference Finals, but I doubt they go further than that.

by cordobes on Feb 14, 2009 6:57 AM EST reply actions

To be perfectly honest with you guys...

… I would definitely not be surprised if we get to go home for the summer after the first round of the playoffs.

My point: I don’t think we’re that big a contender because there are some teams that found a way to stop us.

Last year was more about the ‘new’ Boston. This year, the new Boston turned into ‘regular’ Boston. We’re just one of the other contenders, no longer ‘that new team with the all mighty big three’. I believe the Lakers have upped their game to such an extend. My top three would have the Lakers at one, the Cavs at two and the third place would be for three teams at once: Magic, Spurs and us.

I love this team, I really do, but I do not believe, as of yet, in our superiority.

hides

- Dirk

by Kiorrik on Feb 14, 2009 7:41 AM EST reply actions

Totally disagree!

by Bankshot on Feb 14, 2009 7:58 AM EST up reply actions

That's allowed :)

I’m hoping they change my mind though. Turn it over a wee bit less and have Rondo keep up his consistency, and I will change my mind :)

- Dirk

by Kiorrik on Feb 14, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions

Huh?

What are you even talking about, are you kidding?
The celtics schedule has been harder this season
they have a better record through this many games then they had last season
..Your expectations are ridicolously low for this team..
I think we’re 1 of 3 very legit contenders, and defending champs, do you even watch the games?

by TheAncientRivalry on Feb 14, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions

cannot disagree more...

define “regular” boston. if regular boston means the franchise with most championships in the history of the nba then i guess “regular” boston is still a heavy contender

there is some holes to fill in the roster yes but the record dont lie

by hiro on Feb 14, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions

He clearly wouldnt put the celtics in the class of the mighty lakers unless we were 55-0…I dont know, I dont get it

by TheAncientRivalry on Feb 14, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions

The record atm

Well, it’s more or less about how they reached their record.

To answer TheAncientRivalry: not enough of their games. I saw quite a few, about 25 – 30 but perhaps I’ve been checking out exactly the wrong games? Winning and setting a good record isn’t everything. I must admit that the team has been improving a lot but I still don’t like some of the things I’ve seen.

Perhaps what’s missing in my ‘crazy statement’ is that I’ve not watched any games other than the ones played by the C’s. This means I have seen about 5 games that did not have the Celtics in it. So perhaps I think what I think because I haven’t watched the opposition, and think too highly of them?

- Dirk

by Kiorrik on Feb 15, 2009 6:52 AM EST up reply actions

agree

orlando was never a contender in my mind even nelson was healthy

because they havn’t beaten an elite team in a PLAYOFF series before

by hiro on Feb 14, 2009 10:39 AM EST reply actions

But people are saying its a big deal that we are 1-4 against cle/la/sa, yet its not a big deal the magic are 5-0 against those teams? I dont like that cherry picking…the magic were deffinetly a contender with nelson healthy

by TheAncientRivalry on Feb 14, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions

Hum...

Who exactly had the current NBA champions beaten in a playoff series before last season?

by cordobes on Feb 14, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions

Their current core has played exactly 2 playoff series

With Jameer Nelson having a breakout season and Howard realizing his defensive potential, they could easily have made life very hard for either Cleveland or Boston in a 2nd round series.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 14, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions

Interesting that Cleveland Blogger

pointed out the hole in the argument. By the way how did you determine who was elite or who could win the championship?

I forgot we can’t win the finals cause we lost an overtime game by 1 to Lakers…..

'We circle all the games' - KG

by Birdbrain on Feb 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST reply actions

the lakers are the best team inthe nba. especially in their recent six game road trip going 6-0.beating us and the cavz in their buildings. i think they will win it all against theCeltics in 6 games

by celtics111 on Feb 14, 2009 11:20 PM EST reply actions