Ziller: Moore is "Mark Blount Bad"
by Jeff Clark on Feb 23, 2009 3:11 PM EST
in News/Links
67 comments
You know the sound that Krusty the Clown makes when he gets bad news? "AAAARGH!" Yeah, that sound. That's what went through my head when I read the following lines.
I was going to ask Tom Ziller (Kings blogger extrordinare) for a scouting report on Mikki Moore if we signed him, but he beat me to the punch. Here's what he had to say:
Art Thompson III of the Orange County Register suggests that Moore could "duplicate or at least come close to providing the type of production that P.J. Brown supplied."
I like Mikki, and he's a great teammate. I will miss rooting for him more than any of the other five players the Kings traded or waived last week. But anyone expecting salvation in the form of this dude is in for great a surprise.
Moore is, and has been, among the worst rebounders in the league at the power forward position ... never mind center. He's Mark Blount bad in this area of the game. MARK. BLOUNT.
P.J. Brown, by contrast, is in the Top 100 all-time in rebound rate.
Moore has springs in his legs, but he does not block shots (6'6 Francisco Garcia had more per-minute last season). He can do three things well: take charges (though he'll also rack up a ton of fouls trying to get those), hit the elbow jumper and finish at the rim, provided the ball is handed off to him within five feet of the basket and there are no defenders within 10 feet.
Moore has an amazing story, with a one-in-a-million work ethic and a heart of solid gold. I'm a huge fan of Moore, The Man. So if a team like Boston wants to had him in order to help the youngsters stay motivated, to add 2.3 guttural screams per game, to boost the dreadlock/frightening tattoo quotient ... by all means, do it. But don't think Mikki will come in and be another P.J. Brown. That is not this dude.
In related news: The Herald is reporting that this is just about a done deal. He has to clear waivers (should be Tues. morning) and everyone denies anything is solid, but sources say he'll pick the Celtics. The Globe quotes Moore's agent and says that nothing has been agreed to, and Moore should make a decision tomorrow.
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Don’t say Mark Blounts name three times. I’m afraif what will happen.
God I hated him.
by BOSPORTS on Feb 23, 2009 3:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"a one-in-a-million work ethic and a heart of solid gold"?
But one of the worst rebounders from the pf/c position in the league? The two statements don’t seem to go together.
by Toine43 on Feb 23, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, heck if Mark Blount had a one-in-million work ethic, he could help us
by TheAncientRivalry on Feb 23, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the three things he does well we could use…and PJ brown was literally on his last legs, he was no longer the top 100 all time rebounder.
He did exactly what thompson said Moore could do for us..hit the elbow jumper and finish at the rim, provided the ball was handed off to him within five feet of the basket and there are no defenders within 10 feet
by TheAncientRivalry on Feb 23, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree more...
This team is very adept at rebounding 1-5…there greatest need is some length in the frontcourt and reliable shooting to space the floor- i’ll let the other 4 guys rebound the ball – Mikki just has to hit shots and finish cuts…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 23, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1 Rec
I’m starting the petition to have Blount’s picture pulled from the front page. “A one-in-a-million work ethic and a heart of solid gold” plus the ability to finish at the rim puts Moore 3 for 3 over Mark Blount…
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some differences though
Moore can’t defend as PJ Brown. He can’t rebound as PJ Brown. He’s much more turnover prone. He isn’t as physical or intimidating. And about the rebounding… there’s still a huge difference, even for a 39 years old PJ Brown.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I disagree. Moore doesn’t have P.J. Brown’s resume or feel for the game; but I’m confident a 33 year-old Moore will prove to be a better defender than last season’s 39 year-old Brown. Undeniably, Brown picked his spots well during the championship run, but his defense the rest of the time was lackluster and his foul rate was awful.
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're going to be disapointed
Moore hustles, but he can’t defend. Especially the low post. It doesn’t even come close.
How exactly do you qualify Milkki Moore’s foul rate?
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Blount explodes after Haslem ejected
Mark Blount came off the bench to hit 7-of-12 shots and two 3-pointers for 17 points, eight rebounds and a block in the Heat’s loss to the Pacers."
LOL!
by greenwise on Feb 23, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mark Blount bad is about the worst thing a person could say about a player. But part of what made Blount so bad was that he just didn’t care. I don’t think Moore has that problem. That being said, I would much rather have Smith, but I guess Danny is going for the bird in hand.
Perk and Powe... the Next Big Thing
by FLCeltsFan on Feb 23, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the person that brought up Mark Blount in his blog doesn’t understand what us Celtics fans hated about Blount.
by BudweiserCeltic on Feb 23, 2009 3:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Benefit of the doubt...
‘Ya know, Danny Ainge has a pretty good track record with getting the right folks to fit into our system. Mikki Moore may not be the second coming of Kevin McHale (or even Dino Radja, for that matter), but I don’t think the Celtics would move this quickly on a guy unless they felt pretty confident. They could make an offer to Chris Mihm (good size, athletic, can rebound and block a few shots) or hold-off until something better shows up. I’m willing to cut them a little slack. After all, we’re probably talking about 10 minutes per game? Maybe 15?
And I’m not worried about the comparison to Blount. This article said nothing about mailing it in or being a locker room cancer, which is the Merriam-Webster definition on Mark Blount.
- JoeB
by joeb on Feb 23, 2009 3:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This article was long due
Although the Blount comparison may be misleading.
But I’ve been saying for awhile that Moore can’t rebound, defend or block shots. He’s also amazingly turnover prone. He adds depth, but he’s not better than Powe or Davis, and he’s obviously miles away of the quality of a player like Joe Smith.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
IF he
can block shots a D-bound take him. According to this thumbnail, he does neither.
by The Real Large James 2 on Feb 23, 2009 3:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
Unless they also get Marbury, the Celts are done for the season :(
by Marqui on Feb 23, 2009 3:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
our title hopes rest on Marbury?
get serious…
by ssspence on Feb 23, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it rests on us getting an adequate bench
if you don’t think so then you’ll be unpleasantly surprised come playoff time /
by Marqui on Feb 23, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact is, they are very thin upfront right now
Granted, March 1 is next week, but with KG down, they would have been giving POB some minutes just because of lack of depth upfront. Mikki Moore by all accounts is more equipped than POB, and he can be ready immediately, so a net plus. He may not supplant Powe and/or Davis, the way Brown squeezed out BBD last year, but rather add depth for fouls, etc and for certain matchups where length is needed. Is Joe Smith a better overall player? Yes, but if they can get this guy now, for sure, it makes sense to do it.
by KJ33 on Feb 23, 2009 3:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Moore can play
I’ve seen him play a number of times. He is capable, competitive and tough. He does things that do not appear in the box score. No, he is not a starter in this league, but he is a solid big off of the bench. We can use him.
Plus, everytime I see him play against the Lakers he gives them fits.
by JAM on Feb 23, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, everyone's underrating that...
Moore’s one of those hustle guys who plays with great spirit and enthusiasm. He’ll fit in really well on the team and give us some hustle minutes when necessary. He’s an irritant who can get under your skin as well.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 23, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well maybe Moore will play with a rejuvenated spirit playing with a contender. I know he has the heart….
by wingate on Feb 23, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
About as solid as jello.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————Rebs————————————-
By Opponent G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
vs. LA Lakers 2 17.5 1.5-3.0 50.000 0.0-0.0 .000 0.5-1.0 50.000 0.00 0.50 0.0 1.5 1.0 2.5 3.5 0.5 3.5
Boy, that Mikki Moore fill up the sat sheet!!!
JAM,
Whatever you thought you saw was most likely due to Sacramento’s Pete Carrill Princeton offense that give the Lakers trouble, not Mikki Moore himself.
by wondahbap on Feb 23, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
one skippy was enough. let’s hope mikki is more than just a skip to my lou.
by nazzbo on Feb 23, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Change of scenery
can do alot for a player. Especially when he goes from a dead last loser to a championship contender. You might be suprised what a athletic big man who doesn’t mid running will be able to do with a pass first point guard, a defensive enforcer in the middle and 3 hall of famers demanding double teams. I can envision alot of wide open dunks for Moore. I also remember that he played pretty well against us in years past.
by dmick34 on Feb 23, 2009 4:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's my opinion as well.
Moore couldn’t have found a worse fit than Sacramento: a franchise looking to the future with a recent history of misusing veteran role players (hello Kenny Thomas), the league’s worst defense, and a lot of young scorers but a stagnant offense and no playmakers (the recently departed Brad Miller was likely that team’s best passer). It’s going to be night and day for Mikki.
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's 33 years old
And he was only in Sacramento for the last 2.
This reminds me a lot of the “POB just needs a change, he was a terrible fit in the Warriors” stuff. (although Moore is a legit NBA player and POB is not, no comparison between them in terms of quality).
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe my expectations are different? A high-energy vet that cuts hard to the rim (on a team that’s often too comfortable shooting jumpers); who gets his offense with great efficiency; has to be respected 18 feet out; won’t be out worked by anyone at the other end; and adds length to and undersized second unit.
If he can approximate his success in the swamps, give us 15-20 minutes, 9-10 ppg on 58%+ shooting, 5-6 rebounds, half a steal and half a block, I’ll be enthused.
Plus, since you bring up O’Bryant, as a fan, I’m only too happy to root for blood, sweat, and tears journeyman, instead of a lazy, flash in the pan with the right physical tools.
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need rebounding.
And I believe the team culture, Thibodeau, and Garnett (when healhty) will matter, and should cover a lot of Moore’s shortcomings. (Was there a single Celtic that didn’t make defensive strides last year? Look at Perkins or Pierce.)
The only thing I could do with out is more TOs on a team that doesn’t take care of the ball to begin with…
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason we're a good rebounding team
is because we have good rebounders (or guys really good protecting the board) on the floor.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the NJ-like expectations
He wasn’t significantly better in any aspect of the game in NJ than he was in Sac or other locations except one: jump-shooting. He was incredibly efficient hitting jumpers that season – 55% – but he never came close before or after. Other than that, he was the same player he always was, as a finisher, rebounder, blocker, etc.
Anyone who says he’ll resemble the NJ player more than the Sac one is just saying he’ll hit jumpers at a much higher rate than his career average. It can be, but why exactly is that a reasonable expectation?
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A true point guard, willing passers, more open looks?
I otherwise agree with you RE: NJ/Sacramento. But do you agree that he could provide some of what I mention above? And regardless fills a couple of clear needs – length in the second unit and more scoring at the rim?
No, he isn’t Joe Smith’s equal, but I believe he’s probably as significant an addition as P.J. Brown was last season. (Now this season’s squad has more holes to fill compared to the ‘07-’08 team, but that’s another conversation.)
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lenght?
I personally don’t care about length. Why does that matter? Does it help the player to defend better? To contest shots better? To block them? To rebound more?
If we’re merely talking about a guy who has 3 more inches at the top of his head than another player but does all those things worse, what’s the importance of length?
I’ll bookmark this page and by the end of the season I’ll make a fanpost about his jump-shooting efficiency here. If you’re right and he replicates his NJ season, you’ll deserve major compliments for your foresight.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe I'll be the first guy on Celticsblog to be wrong.
Admittedly, I have soft-spot for Moore’s type and there are plenty of other posters I’d rather bet my money against than you.
Still I’m on board with this signing (which is a first this season. Last tip of the cap to O’Bryant and Darius Miles…)
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“Does it help the player to defend better? To contest shots better? To block them? To rebound more?”
I’d tentatively say yes. There are times that Powe or Davis, despite doing all the right things, concede easy baskets and rebounds to taller opponents. (Memories of attending Nets pre-season game, Brook Lopez in action…)
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Conceding easy baskets and rebounds to taller opponents
vs. conceding easy baskets and rebounds to shorter opponents (almost an ipsis verbis quotation of Ziller re: Moore).
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just wanted to say I'm enjoying reading both sides of this conversation
between two particularly thoughtful posters, cordobes and the Long Lost Wiggle.
Good to see you back.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Feb 23, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me...
…of a person that doesn’t value how differences in personality effect performance from player to player…I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but you speak as if all players boil down to is their on-court peformance, with little credance given to how situation affects that performance…Moore has played much better basketball than he did in Sac-town. I’m not willing to chalk up his recent play simply to age.
Moore is a high-energy, ultra-competitive type…that’s going to impact his performance…I think he’ll resemble the player he was in NJ alot more than the player he was in SAC…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 23, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This handwringing is ridiculous IMO
While I put some stock in what the SAC bloggers have to say, (a) we have a much higher talent level to put Moore in the middle of and (b) I do agree he has a good work ethic — which would right away make him different than Mark Blount.
by Gainesville Celtic on Feb 23, 2009 4:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you guys don't think...
I was tossing that quote up there to get a reaction out of you, do you?
;)
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Feb 23, 2009 4:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You got a reaction alright, Jeff!
A lifetime wouldn’t be long enough if I ever saw old stone hands’ face again…
by BleedinGreen417 on Feb 23, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why put Mark Blunt on this site
Blasphemy Ranter !!!!! May the armpits of a sweaty Taliban Terrorist drip on your brow and into your coffee
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Feb 23, 2009 4:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This signing will make us better
However, it’s another lost chance of adding a quality player to the bench. And it’s hard to understand why to pass on Mutombo or the decision to add POB instead of someone with better quality.
Moore adds some depth and he’ll be a fan favourite due to how much he hustle and how hard he plays, but he isn’t better than none of our current bigs.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 4:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He has a face up game...
..and is far more mobile than Mutombo…he is a better fit for the team’s offense and defense…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 23, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not surprised you say that
After all, we signed Moore and not Mutombo. Anyway, you guaranteed that the team would sign Joe Smith, so I’m not worried.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For me Smith > Moore > Mutombo.
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mutombo would be the better fit
You win playoff games with rebounding and defence.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed with Master Po
especially in a celtic uniform.
by tommyfan on Feb 23, 2009 4:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Has it been pointed out yet?
Tommy Heinsohn should love him! (Shades of ’01 Walter McCarty? Only better.)
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 23, 2009 5:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Give him a chance...you might like him
I watch a ton of non-celtic NBA games and I have to say that I do like Moore quite a bit. Obviously he is not going to be a huge rebounder or great defender but I thing everything else he brings to the table is great.
He’s a hustler, he’s not afraid to take a charge and he will hit a few open jumpers to help spread the D. Like someone else said before, he can be that guy that aggravates the opposing team because he just gets it done. Tommy will defintiely like his hustle as well.
I think that is a great fit for what we already have and could provide some good value in limited minutes. We definitely need all the height we can get at this point with KG out for awhile and Perkins being injury prone. If this deal happens, I am very interested to see how he fits in with the team. I think he will be a nice extra piece.
by DjRyB on Feb 23, 2009 5:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for it!!!
If MM is available, we can’t take a chance on losing him waiting for Joe Smith. If Smith gets bought out, sign him too! I would rather have Joe Smith but Danny and Doc know more about this than we do and if they thought they were going to get Smith for sure they would pass on Moore.
All things are looking like Starbury may be bought out tomorrow. The Knicks are only looking for 2-3 million according to an article I read on Hoopshype. It will save them 5 mill. plus in lux tax savings. They are so close, it has to happen. If so, I would expect Starbury will be our by Saturday. I guess we’ll see how serious he is.
by gizmo010101 on Feb 23, 2009 5:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just do it
What is the fuss right now MM is available do we need a big man yes so sign him yes all of us would prefer Joe Smith but if he is bought out we can then evaluate
by uk7 on Feb 23, 2009 5:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well maybe Moore will play with a rejuvenated spirit playing with a contender. I know he has the heart….
by wingate on Feb 23, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he always played hard...
… I don’t see much improvement coming from that department. He’s always been a spirited competitor, even when playing for one of the worst NBA teams.
by cordobes on Feb 23, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t prefer Joe Smith. Speak for yourself.
by Brickowski on Feb 23, 2009 6:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mikki Moore
What is there to lose by taking on Moore? At worst, he’ll show he’s not a good player here. At best he could give us 10-15 (or even less) minutes of value at the center position. He would be a short-term situational player for us. He could even just be a help in practice. As a vet he should catch on quickly to a limited role. The consensus seems to be that Joe Smith is the guy that could help us the most. To me, the need for us may be more to defend LeBron and Gasol and maybe Lamar Oden. This may be a bigger need than a back up point because as things stand now I don’t see anyone who can truly play like Rondo. Any player at that position is a step down and we could probably handle it just as well with who we have now.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
by TrueGreen on Feb 23, 2009 8:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He may be Mark Bount bad, but he isn’t Patrick O’Bryant bad.
by Brickowski on Feb 23, 2009 9:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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