Are We Better Now?
by Jeff Clark on Feb 25, 2009 9:38 AM EST
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164 comments
Forget the trade deadline. Forget the courtroom drama. Forget Joe Smith. Forget (for now) the offseason. All that matters right now boils down to this: Are the Boston Celtics better today (or technically the end of the week) than they were a couple days ago? I say absolutely, yes.
Lets go to the tale of the tape:
Is Marbury a step up from Sam Cassell? I should think so. He's younger, had more talent in his prime, and one would have to assume that he's got more left in the tank now (though we can hardly tell since neither one has played this year). Don't forget that Sam Cassell had a reputation of being a locker room malcontent in some of his other stops before finding peace in the land of Ubuntu. If Marbury can find that same peace, he is an upgrade.
Next, is Mikki Moore better than Patrick O'Bryant? Come on now.
So I believe we are better than we were a few days ago. Unfortunatly that doesn't mean we are as good as we were when we won the title in June. Mikki Moore, as Tom Ziller pointed out, is no PJ Brown. Stephon Marbury doesn't replace the contributions that James Posey brought to the table. So strictly from a +/- personel standpoint, we are at a net loss.
The wild card is the vast improvement of Rajon Rondo's game. He has gone from being a talented but streaky young player to being a near All Star in less than a year. At this point he's just as important as the Big Three to winning games.
So perhaps the fundamental question I'm debating here is somewhat flawed. Maybe we are better than we were a couple days ago. It isn't clear if we are as good as we were in June. All that really matters is "can we win the title this year?"
This team clearly has a Championship caliber starting five. The questions all surround the bench. While the second unit has had its moments of brilliance, I think most would agree that there was room for improvement.
The Backcourt:
Eddie House has to play the off guard spot to be the sniper that we all know and love. Gabe Pruitt is making strides, but still looks like a rookie too much of the time (especially for a 2nd year guy). Tony Allen was all over the map when healthy and now is on the shelf at least till the playoffs.
The backcourt needed someone that could take the pressure off Eddie House to initiate the offense and they needed someone to create his own offense (without Tony dribbling it off his knee). Marbury can do both of those things.
The worry is that he might not be able to pick up the defensive rotations. He's never been known to be a defender and while Tom Thibodeau's schemes have made Ray Allen a capable defender, there's only so much a system can do. Also, have to wonder if Marbury is going to really initiate the offense or if he's going to pound the ball into the floor and hoist an off balance, contested shot from 20 feet every other play. You know, like Sam did last year.
I have my reservations and worries, but in this case his talent wins out. If he can buy in to what we're doing here, he'll be a big, big help. If he doesn't, then we can cut him loose and forget about him. In my opinion he's worth the gamble.
The Frontcourt:
Leon Powe and Glen Davis seemed to take turns stepping up while the other wasn't playing well. The problem is that we had a thin big man bench and had to play both together too much. They also both lack a certain trait that usually is a prerequisite to playing in the post, height. It seems like you have to qualify praise given to them. "They do remarkably well, ...for undersized power forwards." Scalabrine has had a great year and has filled in remarkably well, but he too is struggling with injuries.
Adding Mikki Moore finally gives us someone with length. That length is discounted a bit when you consider the fact that he's not considered a very good rebounder or shot blocker. However, you have to like the fact that he's a high energy guy. I have a feeling that he's going to fit in very nicely to Thibodeau's schemes. In fact, I could see him backing up KG (when he comes back) more than he does Perkins.
It doesn't matter if he's better than Powe or Davis because our big man bench is paper thin (especially with Scal out for the time being). You can rotate all these guys into the lineup depending on matchups.
Last Word
Doc Rivers and his staff now have more tools at their disposal. How they utilize those tools will go a long way to answering all the questions surrounding the team. Doc has done a masterful job blending all the huge personalities on this squad into a Championship team.
He's now got the responsibility to do that with two new personalities. He's also got to figure out how each guy fits into the offensive and defensive schemes and maximize their strengths while minimizing their shortcomings. If he can do that, then we've got ourselves a great chance to repeat.
Bonus Archive Link: By the way, my specific thoughts on Marbury haven't changed all that much from this post from early January. Are You Ready To Get Nuts?
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Clearly, we are better than we were yesterday, Jeff. Whether that’s actual championship-level improvement or a commentary on where we were yesterday remains to be seen.
by CoachBo on Feb 25, 2009 8:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Um,
I’ve of the opinion that we were better two days than we were in June. And yes, we are better and of championship-caliber now. No doubt.
by Ersatz on Feb 25, 2009 8:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The biggest hyperbole here, as CoachBo would put it, is the contribution PJ did for us during the playoffs last year. The reason he looked as a life savior is because Powe and Davis were so bad. That we had someone who could play some decent minutes was huge for us. PJ wasn’t that good, and had numerous problems. But his main contribution was keeping Powe and Davis on the bench during the last playoffs.
by BudweiserCeltic on Feb 25, 2009 8:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Funny. I doubt if the Lakers thought Powe was “so bad” early in the Finals.
Hyperbole, indeed.
by CoachBo on Feb 25, 2009 8:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, so Powe had a good series. Great for him. Where was he against Cleveland and Detroit?
by BudweiserCeltic on Feb 25, 2009 8:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Powe had a good game,
not a good series.
by Bankshot on Feb 25, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol, true. I think he had another good game in that series… but whatever. Point still stands that Powe was quite bad for us during the playoffs, and more importantly inconsistant.
by BudweiserCeltic on Feb 25, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll have to see
But on paper, we’re much better in terms of sheer talent and versatility.
I still think we need a backup wing if Tony Allen doesn’t have a very quick healing process. If we’re going into the playoffs with House, Scal and Pruitt backing up Ray and Pierce, that negates the addition of quality Starbury and Moore bring.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I too would like a more reliable backup 3, but I think the addition of Marbury could actually shore that up as well. What will likely happen is that when Pierce is out, Ray will play a bit more backup 3. Both Marbury and House can pick up a few more backup 2 minutes.
by Mencius on Feb 25, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like that solution
The thought of Ray Allen having to guard LeBron or House/Marbury guarding guys like Joe Johnson or Pietrus is just too frightening.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A bit overly simplistic...
I will not argue that having a great man defender at the 3 would be a bonus – but not having a man defender does not necessarily mean the team relies on man defense to slow down these players, (Pietrus, i’m not worried about.)
The key is the team defense – and even was last year as James Posey couldn’t stay in front of James in space hardly at all – who can?
They key is to eliminate driving lanes and force these guys to take pull-up jump shots off the dribble – that requires tenacity and a little footspeed – something that Ray and TA can certainly handle…with TA out, that weakens our defense on the perimeter because he is very good at staying in front of his man and forcing him to the help, so i’d like him back for the playoffs.
That being said, Boston is quite capable of scheming for a player and ruining his efficiency. Boston had trouble with Joe Johnson last year, but figured out what to do with him this year. In the playoffs last year it was the team concepts sprinkled in with some key man posesisons from Pierce that ruined Kobe and LeBron’s percentages.
So, I look at a “power 3” as more of a luxury item than a necessity. F/C and PG were the big needs and we addressed those. I would STRONGLY like to see Bill Walker get a chance to develop into a back up 3 over the next 2 months, but I understand if they prioritize other things.
But this team can use all 5 guys to mitigate the damage of any one player…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You misunderstood my point
I’m not saying we need a power 3, just that we need someone who can backup the wings.
Read my first comment.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do keep in mind...
….that TA has a thumb injury – if they truly need his defense they can play him….
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it’s not ideal, but what is your better option for backup 3 minutes? As I see it, PP plays the bulk of his minutes as a 3, and has a few minutes as a 2.
The addition of Marbury would allow either he or House to play a few more minutes at backup 2. Pierce will no longer need to play the 2, so there’ll really only be maybe 11 minutes necessary at backup 3.
With Marbury or House playing a few extra minutes of backup 2, Ray could play maybe 5 minutes or so at backup 3, and TA could have the other backup 3 minutes. Don’t forget, Ray also causes guys like Kobe and LeBron to expend energy on the defensive end too, because he’s become Hamilton-like in running around screens.
Sure, I’d love to have a power 3 like Pose to guard those guys, but this is a workable solution, and I could see Doc employing it.
by Mencius on Feb 25, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, re-read my first comment
I’m not sure TA will be ready to play and I was putting the hypothesis he wong. With Tony Allen in game form, the situation is shaky. Without him, it becomes horrible. Those 2guard fronts are a huge danger defensively, it gives the opponent coach a lot of room to find mismatches.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If LeBron was more of a post player...
…id be inclined to agree with you – but LeBron does 90% of his damage by starting from 25 feet out – that plays directly into a team defensive strategy, which is a big advantage for Boston despite some limitation in personnel and LeBron’s overall greatness…
It wasn’t individual defense that made LeBron shoot less than 40% last year, it was Boston’s ability to funnel him toward help and force him to be a shooter that did it…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and defending him is only half the equation. To use a boxing analogy, having to chase Ray around a bunch of picks is kind of like softening up a guy with body blows. If he has to guard PP, and then Ray, it means he gets no breaks at all. None. Constant pressure on him to play D, which will pay dividends by detracting from his offense sooner or later (like the body blows).
by Mencius on Feb 25, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he defend Ray?
It’s Mike Brown who picks his defensive assignments, not Doc.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We were talking about Ray playing a few backup 3 minutes. Yeah, I guess that they could be cross-assigning on defense, but I’d guess that it’d be likely that if Ray were playing the 3 and LeBron was in, that LeBron would guard him.
by Mencius on Feb 25, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our team defense
is entirely based on the ability of our perimeter defenders to guard their man individually.
People over-rate the importance of team defense and “defensive scheme”. It works as long as you have good individual defenders.
Anyway, it’s not only about LeBron. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about the dangers of not having more than PGs, a SG with PG size and a slow forward like Scal (plus 2 rookies with basically no NBA experience so far) to backup the wings. If we don’t have Tony Allen back on time to get in form, getting a new wing was a more pressing need than a big or another guard.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I share your concern about the backup 3 spot. I’m just offering up possible solutions with the players we have. In my opinion, we had 3 needs and we’ve only addressed 2 of them.
If an improvement at backup 3 could be had from some hypothetical buyout, I’d be for cutting Giddens, Pruitt, or Walker to accommodate him. Anything to maximize this window now is good by me.
by Mencius on Feb 25, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No way...
….the perimeter defenders work to funnel their players to the help as well as paying strict attention to their opponents strong and weak points on the court – we certainly don’t rely on man defense as our perimeter strength…nobody does…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our defensive system is based on
the perimeter defenders not being beat off the dribble.
I have no idea what your cliches – “paying strict attention to their opponents strong and weak points on the court” – even mean in basketball terms.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PJ and Sam were on their last legs
Two 38 yr olds, one who hadn’t played all year, were added last year as much for veteran savvy as what they provided on the court. PJ was very rusty, never became a reliable post scorer, was out of position on D often leading to alot of fouling. Sam was losing a step by the day, turned out not to be much more of a ballhandler than House.
The 2 guys picked up this year are Spring Chickens comparatively at 32 and 33 and while they don’t have some of the credentials of the former 2, those intangibles, as with Posey, are not as necessary on a team where everyone has already won the Championship, not 3 stars who have never even played in a Finals. I believe we should get solid contributions from both, neither are as physically deteriorated as last year’s additions.
by KJ33 on Feb 25, 2009 8:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Posey & PJ v. Starbury and MM
Starbury doesn’t replace some of what Posey brought to the table. But if he can successfully lead the second unit, the second unit is gonna be something else. Marbury can’t defend 4s and 5s or even tall 3s, but he has a chance to be a major upgrade over anyone we had last year leading the second unit. Cassell was good, better than a lot of detractors thought. But he couldn’t break down defenses, and was well past the prime of his career. Marbury is still in his prime, and late prime. Most importantly, this is a contract year for Steph. He now has a chance to cash in, and we know how important cash is for him.
Don’t underestimate MM until we see him play. He’s 5 years younger than PJ, and, while not the rebounding force PJ was, he plays with frenetic energy, something that can’t be easily measured.
In short, Marbury by himself has a great chance to make the second unit better than the second unit has ever been during the KG Era.
by OW_Holmes on Feb 25, 2009 8:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i agree with budweiser celtic. i jumped in here just to address the “legend” of PJ Brown which keeps growing daily with the cynics. Five years from now, we’ll be comparing him to Hakeem.
He had some KEY moments in the playoffs, obviously. no need to rehash those. but he was a marginal role player. of course at the time, we needed every drop he could give us, but there is NO reason Mikki Moore can’t be johnny on the spot a critical moments and give us some boosts, key boards, blocks, couple elbow Js.
by BirdNerd on Feb 25, 2009 8:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And PJ knows it too,
that’s why he retired.
by Bankshot on Feb 25, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's coming together
hard to compare this team to last years.
But one this for sure……RR is a much better player.
by tommyfan on Feb 25, 2009 8:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
2 men are running away from a bear...
one man is running faster than the other and says “I am faster than you”…
the other man says “Yes you are, but my race is not with you, its with the bear”
Point being, we aren’t playing against the ’08 Celtics, we are playing against (presumably) the ’09 Cleveland Cavaliers.
by rickyfan3.0... on Feb 25, 2009 9:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
ricky I think you have that messed up. The point of the saying is that neither guy can outrun the bear, but the faster guy doesn’t have to outrun the bear, just the other guy.
In any case, you are right, the question is if we are better than Cle. Even more importantly, will we beat Cle? I think so, if we have home court.
If A question is are we better than last year, I think Ray is better than last year by a fair amount. Folks here note that periodically but its very important because his bombs make up somewhat for Poseys ability to spread the floor. Rajon is waaaaay better and steadier away from home. House will play shooting guard and so our guard play is much superior, much to last year. Unfortunately Moore’s contributions will be the key to whether our big man play is better.
by wahz on Feb 25, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you missed the point of the saying as well..
I think it’s more about the slower guy just trying to outrun the bear to save his life, and not giving a damn about how fast the other guy is.
I guess the faster guy could be the ‘08 Celtics, the bear could be this year’s Cavs, and the slower guy this year’s team. We may be too caught up trying to replicate our team’s success last year, but first of all we still have recognize our own predicament right now and figure out a way to destroy the Cavs standing in our way.
Not that I doubt that we’d beat them of course. :p
by Wax on Feb 25, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The story really goes like this
(and you have to tell it 1st person)
My buddy and I are hunting in the woods, and we’re finished setting up camp and going to bed, and I start putting on my running sneakers. So my buddy gets a confused look, and finally he says “why are you wearing sneakers to be.”
I say “bears”.
He replies: “Sneakers or not, you are not out running a bear.”
I laugh and go to sleep.
The next day we are leaving, and he says “Did you really think you could out run a bear in your sneakers?”
Me: “No. I just planned on out running you.”
by Brendan on Feb 25, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't have said it better
As much as we want to compare the SM/MM to the PJ/SC additions, it’s hard. Sam Cassell was an energy guy, probably a big reason he was a bit of a disappointment (not totally). And PJ was a stabilizing presence for the second unit, but only to reinforce the stabilization already provided by Posey. This year, I believe Stephon Marbury was, I think, brought in to be more like Posey/PJ. To calm down a second unit that looks lost and take pressure off the lone big three member on the court. Mikki is definitely an energy guy that I hope will be able to provide consistency. In a sense this move makes more sense than last year because the calming presence from the bench is actually a point guard, which I hope will reduce turnovers as well.
So are we better than two days ago? Very Much so.
Are we better than last year? Not sure. The bench has no real identity. If the new additions provide stability, the answer is easily yes. Rivers is great at utilizing player’s talents effectively. What we should not do, is approach this the same way we did last year. This is a totally different team now.
by afflatus on Feb 25, 2009 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ah, Doc Rivers
Doc may be the key to making this thing work.
The bench is chock-full with talent now. Can the maestro compose another brilliant symphony?
It says here he can.
Ubuntu, baby.
by OW_Holmes on Feb 25, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Marbury vs Cassell
The difference is that Cassell had two rings, while Marbury has never played on a winner in his life. There is a reason for that.
Terrible move.
by Brickowski on Feb 25, 2009 9:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha
how can this possibly be a terrible move??
If it doesn’t work, we cut him! it’s that simple, there is almost no way this can go badly.
The man is playing for his next contract, and a chance at redemption. If he messes up this situation he won’t sniff a pro basketball court in the united states again.
Marbury is not the first malcontent to go to a contender and fit-in. and he only needs to do it for a few months!
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How can this be a Terrible move?
The only option is Marbury or no one. So how can it be terrible? With all the bad qualities marbury might have he is nearly a 20 and 8 guy so atleast he can dribble the ball and keep the offesnse in flow. Any thing over that is a bonus. I am sure it is better than a 14 man roaster and Eddie dribbling the ball upcourt for 5-10 mins a game in play offs.
by uk7 on Feb 25, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My gut tells me this is a bad move. Danny may have outsmarted himself on this one.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 9:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Plus, now we have to root for this clown.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Powe, Rondo and Davis are all improved and even Pruitt is getting better, Let’s not forget Scal who was playing his best ball of his celtic career. I honestly thought that the best 5 we put on the floor this year was when KG moved to center and scal started at the 4. that allowed us to spread the floor a la Posey and get wide open shots for our shooters. So I would add Scal to the list of guys who have improved Unfortunately injuries to scal, tony, KG and others are still hanging over us and I think that injuries more than anything will determine who wins the title this year. Despite 2 losses to LA I felt that we were right there but for some foul calls and bad bounces. Moore will definitely help against Gasol who has hurt us in two games and Marbury and House should be a deadly duo off the bench. There is no one on cleveland’s bench or LA’s for that matter who is stronger than Marbury at the back up pg position so he should be able to take his man at will. He also gives us another guy who can get to the line which is huge in the playoffs. Finally, don’t underestimate the reunion factor between KG and Marbury and that Marbury and KG can now finish what they set out to accomplish all those years ago which is to win an NBA title.that by itself should be a huge motivating force,
by Red2 on Feb 25, 2009 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good Stuff Red2
Very good points.
Two losses to the Ls, but they could easily have been two Ws.
Scal has made a case to be in the playoff rotation, if he doesn’t have to retire early due to Troy Aikman diseases.
We also have an interesting lineup with RA, PP, SM, EH, and KG, the sort of gunners lineup that brought us back from the grave in game 4 of the Finals.
by OW_Holmes on Feb 25, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOVE IT!!!!
Poetry, man…pure poetry…..
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maurbury + House should be interesting
in more ways than one.
by Marqui on Feb 25, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
or should I say a qualified yes…Marbury allows several players to move to their natural positions..Eddie will benefit the most, although a healthy TA will thrive with Steph..we only need Moore to play a solid 5 minutes a game and he helps…if Marbury buys into the system (and that is the question), Doc will be able to rest the big three a bit heading into the playoffs……#18 is just a little closer today..
by Fastbreak1 on Feb 25, 2009 9:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
assuming all that to be true, you are forgetting on very key fact, which is that Marbury is insane.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 9:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
insane people tend not to mesh well with their team mates.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let's Look Ahead And Let's Clean The Slate
I like the Mikki Moore signing. I don’t like Marbury based on what I’ve seen in the media, but it looks like he will be a Celtic by the weekend so, as far as I’m concerned, the slate is clean, whatever it really is, and I am now rooting for him to succeed. Comparing Moore and Marbury to Posey and PJ is a waste of time. The question now is can we beat the Cavs in the playoffs. If we do I think we can handle any team coming out of the West. The secret to beating the Cavs is to not allow James to beat us. We need to play him one on one and keep the other guys watching LeBron play. Pierce is the best we have to guard him, but he can’t do it all the time. I do think that between Scals and Moore and maybe KG we can make James think a bit. I think it will be easier for Moore to fit in than Marbury. But I think Marbury, for his own good, can succeed also. I don’t think Pruitt is the answer and anything we do to move Eddie to the 2 will be good for the team. So—Yes I think we are a better team today and even better by this weekend. I’m a Celtic fan and I want to see another banner hanging up there. Thus I will be rooting for Moore and Marbury to help us win.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
by TrueGreen on Feb 25, 2009 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would be happy to post the link again to one very special interview…..
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What Ainge should be doing is figuring out a way to get Marbury to Sign with the Cavs or the Lakers.
by Brickowski on Feb 25, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps this is all a bluff to get the Lakers or Cavs to sign him. Wishful thinking, I am afraid.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What’s even more apinful is how hard Knicks fans will be laughing at us, especially when Marbury contributes to a playoff series loss— which he will.
by Brickowski on Feb 25, 2009 10:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
To Those Questioning If Marbury Can Fit In
I don’t see why he can’t. He has alot to prove to himself and others. The best way for him to do this is to buy into “Ubuntu”. He’s got the right coaches and the right players to surround him to allow him to succeed at this. I think we fans need to cut him some slack and do all we can to support him. If he suceeds we all succeed. We’ve said all the negative stuff we’ve needed to say about Marbury. When he becomes a Celtic this needs to stop.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
by TrueGreen on Feb 25, 2009 10:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
how quickly you forget
kevin garnett may be the most insane player in all the NBA.
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not interested in helping Marbury succeed.
As I said in another thread, let’s wait to see who else is waived before March 1.
by Brickowski on Feb 25, 2009 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I doubt any of them would have career numbers
of 19+ppg, 7.8 apg, and over 3 rpg.
oh yah, only 4 players in NBA history have those numbers. Magic, Oscar, Isaiah Thomas, and MARBURY.
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
rumors indicate
that Mihm, Joe Smith, and Drew Gooden all will not be waived
just an FYI
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Feb 25, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Know It's Not A Done Deal
It looks like Marbury will be a Celtic regardless of who else may be waived. Are you saying that if Marbury does come here you don’t want him to succeed? (I probably should have defined success as in helping the team, not for his own personal reasons even if this could be the motivation). I know you’re a Celtic fan.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
by TrueGreen on Feb 25, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Moss is not insane. He knows right from wrong. He can turn off the weirdness when need be. Marbury cannot.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Garnett is actually very sane. See any of his post game interviews last year.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
if you don't think Garnett is at least a little insane
well I don’t know what to say, he’s clearly mental. we gloss them over because he’s one of us now, but he is crazy.
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KG strives to be great. Marbury just does whatever the **** he wants.
by Casperian on Feb 25, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Garnett also has the common sense not to tattoo his head. Mike Tyson also tattooed his head.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
you are mistaking exuberance with insanity
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
6:1, half dozen or the other
you’re just splitting hairs. Kevin Garnett is a mad man, and I love it.
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
David Lee is sane. He would be a nice addition, but unfortunately the Knicks are not buying out his contract.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Same Piece of Cloth?
“ Truly Serving and being served: folds in the same garment.”
How will Starbury “serve” his new team? Will he fold into the same garmet or does he only fold and serve his way?
Hope I am wrong but so far he has been a rough piece of burlap cloth that may try to cover up Rondo with his own well traveled “cloak of selfishness”.
Hope I am wrong, but in my heart he does not even belong in the NBA, let alone on the Celtics
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Feb 25, 2009 10:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
However, I would have to imagine the big three have had a lot of input into the question of whether or not to sign Marbury, and I would think that if they objected, then Danny would not sign him.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
We already know what they think about Marbury...
because they’ve made public comments about it before. Publicly all have endorsed signing Marbury. If someone would have just cause to be wary of him wouldn’t it be Kevin Garnett? The fact that he’s OK with it speaks volumes.
But Marbury has a tattoo on his head, so clearly he’s going to destroy the chemistry of the team. (rolls eyes)
by BilboMcFonzie on Feb 25, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Company line. KG has no choice. If Danny is going to do it, he has to eat it.
by wondahbap on Feb 25, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we'll hear from them soon...
…the GPA trio have never been a group that has not spoken their minds…and Ainge doesn’t force things on his team – this team dialogues…if they were against it Ainge wouldn’t do it – because he isn’t going to mess up the core just to have a science expirement - one that wouldn’t work without the buy-in from his boys…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brother-in-Law.....
My brother-in-law, who is a Laker fan says we don’t have a chance in you know what to beat Cleveland in the east even with the Mikki & Starbury pick up. I just don’t believe that….please someone give me more input so I can plead my case with this guy…!!!
by wingate on Feb 25, 2009 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Your brother-in-law is right. Stern wants a Kobe-LeBron final and the refs will likely make it happen.
by Brickowski on Feb 25, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll need Rondo and Ray to play at a higher level
than they did in the semi-finals last year.
I’m confident they will. If you’re the better team you win anyways, no matter what the refs do. Game 6 of the Pistons series is how you do it. Shrug it off and beat them.
by Fafnir on Feb 25, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tell Your Brother-In-Law
Cleveland is a one man team. They have other good players, but they don’t seem to be part of the game plan. Just look at the points James scores. What are the other members of the Cavs doing while James plays? Now look at how the Celtics play. They play as a TEAM where every player partipates. One man cannot beat 15. As a reference: Micheal Jordan once scored 63 points against the Celtics in the “Bird Era” in a playoff game. The CELTICS won that game.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
by TrueGreen on Feb 25, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point….I could’nt have said it better. Team ball wins games and we play team ball…..
by wingate on Feb 25, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland plays team ball too. Mike Brown is a good coach. They also play defense.
They aren’t as good as the Celtics, but they’re pretty good, so they will only need moest help from the officials— two or three questionable calls at critical moments, a palming or travelling violation by LeBron that is not called, a charge by LeBron that is called a block, etc.
It won’t take much.
by Brickowski on Feb 25, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely true...
…and my principle fear in all of this…
I have been thoroughly convinced for a few years that the league has “favorites” and the refs are somewhat encouraged to play to the ratings…games are kept closer at times and certain matchups are league-friendly.
Last year the GPA trio got their moment in the sun – KG got his ring and the Celtics beat the Lakers in the finals…it seems logical that Kobe vs. LeBron is the sexy matchup pitting the leagues two most marketed stars against each other.
While there is no hard evidence to support this type of claim, there have been numerous circumstantial occurrences that support this notion – from phantom fouls on MJ during his 2nd 3 peat run through Indiana, to Bibby’s face fouling Kobe’s elbow, to Wade’s rediculous FT run vs. Dallas….the league has shown that the breaks tend to go toward the favored story line….
I don’t know if Boston is out of style yet, but it is quite possible that we’ll have to battle the Cavs and the officials to get to the finals….
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn.. why do you follow a league you believe is rigged?
Doesn’t make sense to me.
by cordobes on Feb 25, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't say it was "rigged"
…this isn’t the WWE…but I strongly suspect their is a favoratism that plays into the ratings and entertainment aspect of the game – we see a derivitive of this all the time in the form of the “Star system” of officiating – this is just an extension…
There are numerous “judgment call” fouls in every game – plenty of opportunity to judge in favor of the star or to keep a game within striking distance at a key juncture…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not up to the players to object. It’s up to Ainge to come to his senses. It’s 100% his responsibility.
by Brickowski on Feb 25, 2009 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
this could be the second coming of the ghost of his decision to trade the Brandon Roy pick.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Steph is the biggest nut in the NBA
and if the C’s sign him it’s because they NEED him and he would know that.
For anyone unaware of how loopy he is, here are the youtube links AGAIN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxgbyYrT5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmre4P5Vt8c
There were more. I guess they’ve been removed.
by wondahbap on Feb 25, 2009 10:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I admit, I'm frightened by those interviews...
But they make me laugh too :)
I still think he can keep himself in check long enough to not be a distraction…just keep your mouth shut awhile Steph…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 25, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Salmon, he had to be lit up like a xmas tree.
It not good. I mean its funny like watching “Half Baked” which is funny except none of those actors are playing point guard for us.
by wahz on Feb 25, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, this guy's high on life
Steph’s a little odd and it’s not necessarily because he was on drugs…he says crazy stuff every interview he gives…‘cause he’s kinda crazy and a huge goofball. He actually looked kinda nervous too…
Best line was:
“If you believe it you can achieve it.” (said with a goofy grin)
I also loved when he thanked Isiah for making him into the man he’s become off the court. Yeah, thanks Isiah.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 25, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I got a kick out of that line, wahz
entertaining stuff.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Feb 25, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Ray?
Maybe someone already pointed this out, but the other big positive difference between this year’s team and last year’s is Ray Allen’s increased contribution. Last year he was a good thrid wheel. This year he is a great first or second wheel. Thanks in large part to the abilities of Rondo to sniff him open in a nanosecond.
by footey on Feb 25, 2009 10:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Celtics just destroyed Denver sans Garnett. They’re fine. They’re great. Now they are about to do the equivalent of celebrating by smoking crack.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 10:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
so dramatic...
this isn’t larry hughes, a player who has come out and say he could care less about winning.
Marbury chose boston because he wants to win, and he wants to repair his reputation, and GET PAID.
he can do none of those things if he is the nightmare you are making him out to be.
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a lot of revisionism going on.
“Isiah has to start me. I’ve got so much [stuff] on Isiah and he knows it. He thinks he can [get] me. But I’ll [get] him first. You have no idea what I know.”
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 25, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"From what I hear, dog-fighting is a sport."
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 25, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“It’s not even close,” Marbury said. “[Kevin Garnett] doesn’t even compare to Amare. It’s two different people. It’s like Michael Jordan and Mario Elie. It’s not even close.”
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 25, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"I don’t care what [Coach Larry Brown] wants to hear. I’m telling you what I’m going to do [shoot more]."
by The Walker Wiggle on Feb 25, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Get a life"
Marbury to House when Eddie bragged about his ring.
by Casperian on Feb 25, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Far Better
We are MUCH better now. I’ve watched Stephon play over the last few seasons (when the Knicks actually let him off the bench), and the guy has game. More importantly, the guy wants to win. At times over the last three years Steph was the only Knick still trying on the court. I really enjoyed watching him play, he can defend when he wants to and can score at will. Plus, he really does care about the game of basketball and it shows when you watch him up close.
He might be a meatball of a person, but he is a darn good basketball player.
by RickyD Fan on Feb 25, 2009 10:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree with you
but it’s funny to hear this from “RickyD fan”.
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he is at 80 % of what he was a couple of years ago, he will be one of the top 6th men in the league. This is a major talent upgrade.
by liamail on Feb 25, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Ramirez is a darn good baseball player.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 11:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
especially when he got traded to the Dodgers.
Bleed Green. What does it mean?
by CelticsHooRah on Feb 25, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I loved every minute of his August/September/October performance
now if only we good get his pesky agent and him on board to re-sign…
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Feb 25, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Step Back
We just are not as good as last year. PJ Brown made key shots, blocks and boards in the playoffs and Posey was a lock down defender and spread opponents’ defenses. We just don’t have that this year. BBD, Powe, and RR have all improved but not to the extent that they can replace what Brown and Posey brought to the table. Had Posey stayed, we would be favorites. We are not now because we lost our Bruce Bowen type player.
by The Real Large James 2 on Feb 25, 2009 11:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Posey was NOT....
…a lock down defender…he was positionally versatile and a great team defender, but in space he relied heavily on the backline defense to support him…had enormous troubles with both James and Bryant…
There is no doubt that Posey would be an upgrade defensively to the current wing group, but that doesn’t equate to being a worse team…this team has a better starting 5 and just got a true scoring and play-making focal point for the 2nd unit….
Whatever the wing lost in big plays should not be hard to compensate for with the multitude of improvements in other areas…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah!
People forget that he was more of an intangibles defender than a one-on-one guy. He couldn’t guard the better 3’s in the league (Kobe/Bron), just the average ones.
by chunnamark on Feb 25, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh,
and please don’t even think Tony Allen could fill Posey’s shoes.
by The Real Large James 2 on Feb 25, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tony Allen cant even fill his own shoes right now.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This team is MUCH better if Marbury buys in...
Look at the factors:
- Ray, Rondo, Perkins are all better players in the starting lineup
- Scal, Powe, Davis, TA, House are all better bench players than last year
- Marbury would give them a legit focal point scorer/playmaker off the bench
-Eddie moving full-time to the 2 will improve his productivity
- Every other bench player should get easier looks now that there will be 48 minutes of real PG play
- The team can now have TWO OR MORE bona-fide NBA scoring threats on the court AT ALL TIMES…repeat: This team will now have 2 primary scoring options on the court for 48 minutes a night…
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Marbury, he’ s primarily being asked to do one thing: be a ball-controlling offensive focal point for the 2nd unit – I am pretty sure that’s what he’s done his whole life.
All this “loser” talk relates to his previous roles as “the man” on his team. Now he is being asked to be “the man” of the 2nd unit for 15 minutes a night – don’t see how he can fail to do that.
He will have the option of earning more minutes at the 2 if he can pick up the team schemes and make smart decisions with the ball – this is the big question in my mind, but he does have some things going for him.
As egocentric as he is, Marbury has never seemed to be as strong a personality as KG or Pierce…he is not a leader like that and I think there is a good chance that with the authority and guidance that GPA provide through VERBAL COMMUNICATION that Marbury will respect and listen to what they say.
Remember, Pierce was considered a selfish player that could not adjust to others because he was too strong an ego – turns out he just needed to have teammates he trusted to get the job done.
Marbury has many, many character differences than Pierce but in this one regard, it may be the difference we’re looking for. Marbury has HoF teammates now – that is likely going to count for something in his book.
I am expecting this to work out masterfully. If it does, Boston will be the ONLY team in the NBA that can have 2 NUMBER ONE scoring options on the court AT ALL TIMES — it’ll take a monumental team defensive effort to beat a team like that in a 7 game series…I don’t think it can happen considering how good Boston is defensively as well.
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This makes me feel muuuch better....
I also remember feeling pretty crappy that SAM I AM was joining the team last year, and that worked out okay. It’s true, the second unit might not get any better defensively, but they just got waaaay better offensively, – Marbury basically replaces Free Gabe.
I’m still scared of the locker-room distraction issue…
by chunnamark on Feb 25, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bill, I like your optimistic point of view. I hope you are correct.
by jurrasicearl on Feb 25, 2009 11:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Me Too!
Look,
Obviously Marbury has to do his part – its clear the media are going to swarm around him like some type of damn circus show – so how the team handles that remains to be seen. That is actually my biggest concern right now because it has nothing to do with how Marbury actually fits in.
I could see the team controlling media accessibility of Marbury by counseling against him having regular sessions, but that is highly unorthodox so i’m not expecting it. Marbury is very quotable because he’s pretty dense when it comes to understanding bigger picture concepts – he speaks from the heart and isn’t a “bad guy” but his limited scope and understanding of the world “outside of Stephon” is going to create some level of public distraction.
However, if he’s doing his job in practice and working with the team the silly quotes won’t be a problem on the court for the team – just fodder for us.
After that, of course, he has to do his job and accept the changes necissary – while I understand the concern on this board I don’t think people are giving enough credence to just how much communication and solidarity there is on this team.
Marbury is going to be dialoging with Ainge, Doc, KG, PP, RA on a CONSISTENT basis. Its not like they are just plugging him in there and hoping that his innate understanding of the situation will be enough for him to turn over a new leaf.
Of course this team can cut him at any time – which is huge leverage – but before it comes to that there will be INNUMERABLE opportunities for the leaders of this team to communicate with Steph on how things work and what they would like to see from him.
Considering Steph’s current status around the league and his desire to be well-liked and well-paid, I just cannot believe that the team’s support structure will fail to HELP Stephon work towards their mutual goals…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BillfromBoston
re:“All this "loser" talk relates to his previous roles as "the man" on his team. Now he is being asked to be "the man" of the 2nd unit for 15 minutes a night – don’t see how he can fail to do that.”
Steph has a tremendous ego. If he couldn’t handle that, what makes you think he’s succeed in being a role player. Don’t you see why he’s been a failure on the court? His self worth and ego are too big for him to realize the truth.
by wondahbap on Feb 25, 2009 11:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He was playing in NY for the team he always wanted to play for and ruined that, and now he’s going to be on his best behavior in Boston?
I don’t agree with the thought that KG and the rest can keep Steph on a short leash, or keep him in check, or any of that Ubuntu BS (ubuntu was marketing for the fans anyway). People are going to do what they want. If KG has to keep him on a leash then the battle is lost already. You think Steph is going to let KG keep him on a leash? Like he’s a little boy, luck to be n his team? No. Steph still believes he’s one of the best, just caught in a bad situation.
by wondahbap on Feb 25, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
…my statement was in relation to this exact character flaw – the team isn’t asking him to be somebody else – they’re asking him to be himself, but off the bench for 15 minutes a night…
The only required change would come from wanting to earn additional minutes on the court – but there is tremendous incentive for him to do so and its all bonus time as far as the team goes – they only need 15 minutes of “Starbury” from him – if he wants more time he has to shelve “Starbury” and become a more complete player.
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My point is that this character flaw
will prevent him from succeeding in that capacity (15 min) in the long run.
by wondahbap on Feb 25, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so what else did you see in your crystal ball?
by Marqui on Feb 25, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
overanalysis
has been done faaar too much lately. “Long run”?
Bleed Green. What does it mean?
by CelticsHooRah on Feb 25, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rivers has proven to be a collossal failure handling even the slightest malcontention. So Danny puts this ditwad in Rivers’ lap after essentially spending most of his GM career anti Marburing his team?
First round exit.
Garnett’s influence here is so overrated. He got two much more talented players in the Wally trade and both played worst when they got to Minny. Put up better, but selfish stats.
This is an absolute train wreck and a totally unnecessary gamble by Ainge.
by Finkelskyhook on Feb 25, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
seriously?
That minnesota ream was a train wreck? really they made the WCF despite having major injuries to wally and trenton hassell I believe.
In what situations has rivers failed at handling malcontents??? examplese pleasel
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and after that
it was all injuries.
Spreewell was out the majority of the next season with an injury, and wasn’t wally traded?
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh and that pointguard...
troy hudson missed the majority of the season too.
and I missed this in your original post, are you saying spreewell and cassell were more talented than pierce/allen at the time of the trade?!!
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McGrady, Blount, Davis, Banks. Hell, he made a malcontent out of Horace Grant.
by Finkelskyhook on Feb 25, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
those are pretty poor examples
they were malcontents because they didn’t get to play or because they weren’t playing the game Doc demanded and he rode them for it.
and look how most of their careers have turned out? banks is garbage, davis is garbage, blount is garbage. and T-mac has never made it out of the first round of the playoffs.
marbury is not nearly as big a piece of the puzzle as any of those guys were when they were under doc.
by WillyBeamin on Feb 25, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agree
Rivers is fine handling Malcontents. Getting the best talent on the floor in the best situations seems his weaknesses to me. (e.g. benching young guys with talent, bad rotations, situational lineups, etc.)
by Brendan on Feb 25, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He out coached Phil Jackson
He out coached Phil Jackson badly in the finals last year. Made Phil look like a chump. Go Doc!
by liamail on Feb 25, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to say...
Rondo is better. Scal is better, if he’s healthy. Statistically, our offense is very slightly better.
The bench is worse, and until Starbury and Moore perform, they’ll continue to be worse. Statistically, our defense is slightly worse.
So, the long and the short of it is, we’ll see.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Feb 25, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hear you Roy, but....
…Statistics can also be a little misleading….
The numbers are slightly up and slightly down in a bigger picture total, but the situational production has diversified greatly.
The team offense is much more complex and free-flowing than it was last year – they are able to handle more situations and adjust, thus being harder to defend. The total values may only reflect a slight net gain, but that doesn’t account for the level of aptitude an opponent must reach in order to counter the improvements the team made.
Defensively, I really only see a slight numerical decline for two simple reason:
- Teams are playing us MUCH harder than last year
- The Celtics have taken off a lot more games than they did last season
This team is much more judicious with its efforts this year, which is far more indicative of most veteran teams play. They are still a net #1 defense if you look at all the defensive stats – 3pt FG, 2ptFG, points in the paint, total points allowed, turnovers forced, 2nd chance points allowed, etc…last year they had a historic defensive season, this year they are picking their spots, but when they’ve needed it, its been there…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Posey contribution overstated
It’s true that he had some glorious defensive moments in the finals, and some great and key 3-pointers. But we have 3-point shooters to make up the loss. It comes down to defense. Does the loss of Posey on D make us significantly weaker?
I think the answer is clearly No. Reason: we are not a one-on-one defensive team. What sets the Cs apart from all others is the TEAM defense we play. And the truth is, ANYBODY reasonably athletic and, more importantly, WILLING TO DO THE WORK on D can fit into our team defense and contribute. The fact that we lost in Pose a very strong one-on-one defender is not critical, since that’s not our game anyway.
Even Steph can shine on D playing for this team. He has the physical skills… it’s just a matter of will. And he will be plenty motivated to do his utmost for us… like about $30-$40 million dollars’ worth of motivation (= what he can earn in the rest of his career if he shines on the Cs this season). He (and every other journeyman in the league) remembers full well what Posey was able to negotiate after winning the ring in Boston. And btw, Steph is a freeroll for us.
by DRJ1 on Feb 25, 2009 11:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Trust me. The defense isn't the same and Posey had a lot to do with it.
Credit your team, but don’t discredit Posey. The ability for a player to slow down or shut down an opposing teams key guy shouldn’t be under estimated. It makes every other player able to focus more on their guy, making the TEAK defense better.
Last year, KG and Perk aren’t as effective, if perimeter players are able to get to the rim easily. Posey stopped that. No on can do that this year, and it shows. The wall is gone.
by wondahbap on Feb 25, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't a wall at all...
A smart defender, a harasser, and a great team defender, but he was hardly a wall…better than the backups we have now, but he wasn’t shutting guys down – not the guys that mattered in the playoffs – he was a savvy contributor to the team defense, not a lock-down guy…
by BillfromBoston on Feb 25, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Better or Worse
Our starting 5 is the best, collectively, in the game right now. Ray Allen is much healthier and better than last year and Rondo is miles better than last year. Perk is slightly better through another years experience gained. Davis is much better than last year, Powe is a little better than last year, House is the same. The guy not here is Posey. I don’t get why everyone wants to put him in the hall of fame? He’s a good bench player who’s come up with big plays at times in his career. A lot of people here talk as if we have no chance without James. Please! He’s a very good team defender, he’s not a “lock down” man defender. He can shoot from the perimeter. He averaged about 7 and 4 last year. That’s irreplaceable? I don’t think so. Marbury will be a very big add to the second unit. This team will be better than last years team. LA and Cleveland are better too. This will be fun!
by celty86 on Feb 25, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A Perkish Quibble
My only quibble is about Perk, who seems no better than last year. In the last few games, he’s been a lot worse, committing way too many unnecessary, obvious, stupid fouls. Let’s hope this is not a developing problem.
by DRJ1 on Feb 25, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perk hurt his shoulder, remember?
He has been up-and-down, but you can trace that back to his shoulder injuries in late December and early January. He’s been turning it around lately, and if he remains healthy I’m sure he’ll be at his peak come playoff time.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 25, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a worry
He’s a worry, Sal… agree that his shoulder is probably at fault, and we can hope that he will improve as we get closer to playoffs. But I don’t like that Perk has actually gotten worse in the last few games… defense still very good, but too many stupid turnovers and fouls, too few points. On top of that is the fact that his shoulder remains a major Achilles heel for him… he’s one unlucky bump away from a season-ending injury. That would be a “yikes!” event, for sure. (Mikki can’t carry the load, and with Scal out… geez, not much left.)
by DRJ1 on Feb 25, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know what?
A ton of those offensive fouls are crap calls…I will admit, Perk has a way about him that seems to make the officials give him crap calls, but still, they’re crap. The other teams we’re playing do the same thing (as far as moving picks are concerned) but we seem to get called for it a bunch more than we should (Baby being another culprit who gets no respect from the officials).
As for the shoulder, it’s a concern, but I wouldn’t label it a potential season-ender. It’s chronic, for sure, but manageable nonetheless.
This season, all Perk needs to do is play defense and hit a jump hook or two when we go to him in single-coverage. Perk’s the kinda player that gets a little better each season and then before you know it he’s going to sneak into an all-star game or two. I’m not worried about him at all.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 25, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys watching those you tube clips?
The guys is stoned out of his mind..NO doubt about it. This can’t be good. If you are just overjoyed about us getting him, watch the clips than tell me how you feel.
by wahz on Feb 25, 2009 12:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good lord, how in heavens name is Ray Allen going to put up with this guy?
Watch the clip. Holy cow!
by wahz on Feb 25, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Sure What You're Refering To
But my guess is that you’re referring to Marbury. If so the question should be "how is Marbury going to put up with Ray Allen (and KG and PP and Perk,etc). The Celtics are a very communicative team. They can say nasty things to each other, when someone makes a mistake, but it is not personal. Ray Allen has often said each player is accountable for his actions to himself and to his teammates. And each player has the right to tell another player if he’s not getting the job done. This is what Marbury will have to contend with.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
by TrueGreen on Feb 25, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For those interested in who else we could have gotten had we waited
Hollinger is hearing that most of the big names will not be waived
• There is still no clear-cut indication whether the Thunder will let Smith go before Sunday’s buyout buzzer. There were repeated rumblings before the trade deadline that Oklahoma City — which had to take Smith back when it rescinded last week’s trade for Tyson Chandler — wanted to keep Smith if it couldn’t move him again. That was widely dismissed by rival teams as posturing by OKC to keep Smith’s trade value up, but I’m hearing increasing skepticism that we’ll see 1995’s No. 1 overall pick on the open market before the summer. The Celtics — presumed to be the co-favorite for Smith along with Cleveland if he did work out a buyout — decided they couldn’t wait and inked Moore as soon as he became available.
• NBA front-office sources say that the Kings, at this point, are not planning to waive Gooden, who is vowing to make his Sacramento debut Wednesday night against Charlotte even though he’s been plagued recently by a groin injury. There is still time for a policy change here, but unlikely was the word in circulation as of late Tuesday night.
• Mihm is another name that has been tossed around given the league-wide desperation for proven size, but the early signals also suggest that Memphis is not looking to buy him out. At least not yet.
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Feb 25, 2009 12:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
those should all be quotes
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
by Jeff Clark on Feb 25, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Last Mihmsy
Ainge must have had a sniff of this stuff to sign Moore… nice move Danny.
by chunnamark on Feb 25, 2009 12:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How soon we forget
I remember this time last year, people were screaming at why are we getting Sam Cassell; and now we are saying the same thing about Marbury. Was Dennis Johnson any different when he came over from Seattle.
Many of these stars are pre-madonna’s. The likes of Pierce, Garnett, and Allen will have a huge affect on Stephon. As long as he comes to play night in and night out everything will be fine.
Remember, he’s fighting for a contract and wants to show that he is not a Cancer or a problem child.
by Ancient Red on Feb 25, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i’m with brick on the matter of stern wanting a lebron-kobe finals. the refs drive me crazy with their arbitrary calls/no calls. if and it’s a big if, scal gets healthy, he can spend a few minutes guarding lebron. lebron can outquick and outmuscle him but he will have to work at it. i don’t see much from tony, but have some hope for him.the refs will eat up walker. it is a big chore ahead, but things (bad luck) can happen to other teams in the meantime. to win you need talent and luck and character. we have 2 of the 3 and let’s hope for the luck.
by nazzbo on Feb 25, 2009 5:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Celtics are better than they were a few days ago.
The Celtics are a much better team than they were last season when they won a title. I don’t even think it’s close. Rondo and Ray are vastly improved versions of the players we saw last year. And I think the team as a whole has grown as a collective, their mental capabilities are much stronger now. I also think this year’s bench has gotten far too much criticism.
———————————————————————————————
So they’re better than last season’s title side, they’re going to repeat right? Not necessarily.
The question is are they better than their competition? And with Cleveland, and LA (with Bynum), that’s a close call that could go either way. They got themselves a very good shot at it though.
by Who on Feb 25, 2009 8:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let's not forget...
that last year’s team was not without it’s fault(s). At this time last year many were bemoaning the fact that we had no capable backup for Rondo, and it worked out.
I do believe that last year’s bench was superior to this year’s bench, but we are definitely superior today to what we were a few days ago (assuming we get Marbury). If I had to pick, I would rather take last season’s fault, because Pierce/Ray can handle the ball in stretches. I would rather have a wing defender that can give break on LeBron and Kobe, even if it is for only 10 minutes a night. I don’t see who that is on this team.
In the end, time will tell. But, as stated, we are definitely better now that a few days ago, if only because we can now give a different front line look. We more flexibility to go with the hot player rather than being forced to play BBD or Powe (which Doc is pretty good at doing).
by MurphyHOF on Feb 25, 2009 9:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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