Joe Smith and Drew Gooden Bought Out
by Jeff Clark on Mar 2, 2009 10:11 AM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintThe excellent Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that Oklahoma City agreed to waive cagey veteran Joe Smith in time to join a playoff team. Windhorst has sources that call the Cavaliers a lock as Smith's destination.
Drew Gooden, meanwhile, became a surprise addition to the buy-out list. Traded to the Kings a week-and-change ago, Gooden has played only one game in Royal Purple. But the rebuilding Kings have young talent in the frontcourt and no real need to, um, win. Sam Amick of the Sacramento Bee first reported the possibility of a buy-out Saturday; it happened just an hour before the midnight Eastern deadline. San Antonio looks like a potential landing place.But a team with no shot at either -- the Boston Celtics -- might be the biggest story out of the last-minute buy-outs
UPDATE: According to David Aldridge, Smith wanted to sign in Boston, but those talks are dead now.
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Smith wanted to sign in Boston...
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/03/01/gooden.smith/index.html?rss=true
I’ll trust David Aldridge, maybe the best NBA reporter in the business.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I agree
And it’s the consequence of a bad off-season – that lead to Ainge being desperate now and not having the luxury of being patient.
ugh
not what I needed to hear this morning
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." Michael Scott
I’ve got to assume that through whatever back-office channels of communications that were being used (that will never be publicly acknowledged lest tampering charges be filed), Smith wasn’t making his intentions of being bought out all that clear. Communications breakdown.
I can’t blame Danny for signing Moore. I like Mikki (I would have liked Smith more), but really, whether we advance past Cleveland or not is going to have a LOT more to do with LeBron vs. Pierce than Joe Smith versus Mikki Moore.
Could we still sign him?
A scenario would be to buy out Scal, and sign Smith. Scal is definitely at risk for not playing the rest of the season.
Whether Scal can play this year or not (or even if – theoretically – he was never cleared to play again), he still has value as an expiring contract. It’s entirely possible we’ve seen the last of Scal in green, since he’ll have a fair amount of value as a trade asset this summer (and especially at next years’ deadline). Basically, if we want to get a deal done, we need his contract.
Pruitt, now, he doesn’t make as much, so there isn’t much of a financial hit. Not sure if he has any guarantees for next season or not. To me, you think about bringing someone else aboard and cutting Pruitt unless you believe he’s going to make the leap. If he’s not part of the future plans anymore, cut bait and get someone else in who can help.
Not really...
When the one in the hand isn’t that good of a player, and the two in the bush are.
Mikki Moore just isn’t a very good player. He’s better than POB, but not anything special otherwise.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Gooden?
Forgive me if I’m talking crazy here, but since the Cavs have Joe Smith practically locked in, is there any chance we cut somebody and at least get Gooden?
I don't buy this for a second!
Come on! Joe Smith sat there and kept saying he was happy staying where he was, made no overtures recently to the Celtics that he was going to push for a buyout and wanted to be here over Cleveland. This is all a smokescreen so that he doesn’t make his friends on the C’s feel bad. He had every intention of signing with the Cavs for more money than we could offer him. The second we signed Moore all of a sudden he pushes for the buyout?! Be serious guys. We never had a shot at him in the first place.
How could you know that?
How do you know what “overtures” Smith made to the Celtics?
Every report in the media leading up to the deadline was that the Celts were Smith’s first choice. Aldridge is now confirming this.
Maybe that’s all a smokescreen, but there’s absolutely no way of knowing that. Danny seems to have targeted Moore — there’s every possibility that Danny just values Moore higher than Smith and Gooden. That may sound illogical, but Danny makes mistakes as much as everybody else.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
We sure knew what "overtures" Marbury made to the Celtics
Of course we don’t know 100% what was said, however his actions spoke very loud. When it was about us supposedly he made comments he was happy and not too concerned about being bought out. Now that Cleveland needs him with more cash in hand to give he gets the deal done and changes his tune. Actions have spoken. Had he truly wanted to be here then he would have been here.
You may be right about Danny though. I don’t know that I personally think that Moore is that much worse than Smith at this point, however I would have preferred Smith I think.
1) Starbury was granted permission to talk to other teams; there is no indication that Smith was;
2) Starbury is known for talking, even when it isn’t necessarily professional and in his team’s best interest. Smith isn’t.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Can't argue with that.
However there were reports of him talking with our players and we know that if he was all over it that would have found his way to Danny. So either he didn’t really want to be here, or Danny valued Moore over him. Either way I guess it doesn’t matter. I would be all over releasing Gabe though and signing him as well. That would basically sit either Powe or BBD though, so I don’t think that will happen.
To the extent Smith did any talking...
Smith wasn’t exactly mute on the subject in the last week or two. Sure, we don’t know what was said back channel, but to the extent we do know what he said or thought, it was that he was happy with his situation in OKC, and that he was not seeking a buyout.
I don’t know how Danny ranked these potential buyout candidates, but I’m pretty sure he did not want to chance not landing any of them. Unless Danny had other compelling info that Smith wanted and would receive a buyout, I think it was smart of him to not pass on Moore.
monday morning quarter-backing going on here.
Mikki Moore is a quick big that can handle the high screen and roll very similar to KG and bother with his length. I feel his a better defender and more athletic than Joe Smith, but Smith is clearly the better offensive player.
But is that what we needed?
Moore as a defender...
Moore led the league in personal fouls last year, averages less blocked shots than Brian Scalabrine, and allowed opposing centers to shoot over 60% this year. He is in no way a better defender than Joe Smith.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
"But a team with no shot at either -- the Boston Celtics -- might be the biggest story out of the last-minute buy-outs"
Maybe its because we already signed our 2 guys? why would that be the biggest story?
And this habitual whining about not signing Joe smith should just stop already…for as bad as you say Mikki Moore is, Joe smith is not much better at this point in his career.
Is it really neccasary to dwell on what you think Ainge should’ve done all the meanwhile ripping the guy he did sign? GET OVER JOE SMITH is all I can say..this is cavs news, not celtics news
by TheAncientRivalry on Mar 2, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions
You're wrong, IMO
Smith is significantly better than Moore. As Ziller puts it, Moore is a far cry from both Gooden and Smith. Only here I’ve read different things.
This could be the final nail in the coffin
Like almost everyone else, I really wanted Joe Smith – a player who: played excellent help defense against us in the postseason last year, consistently knocked down the midrange jumper, had the height and length to defend other big men like Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum, and, perhaps most importantly, has been around for a long time but has failed to win it all (adding another hungry player can never hurt). The only way Boston has a chance against Cleveland, LA, or San Antonio (with or without the home court advantage) is if we sign Bonzi Wells – thereby solving our need for help on the wing. I can not emphasize this enough. Here’s a guy who can score off the dribble and in the post, grab a ton of rebounds, play good defense against Kobe and LeBron, and, perhaps most importantly, get to the free throw line. He’s experienced, has not won it all, and has recently played in China for little to no money. I say, in the name of saving the careers of Ray Allen and Paul Pierce, cut Gabe Pruitt and sign Bonzi. Get to it Danny, our title hopes depend on it.
by Celtics Fanatic on Mar 2, 2009 11:01 AM EST reply actions
Joe Smith was clevelands worse poset defender, he couldnt defend anyone.
He didnt consistently knock down the jumper against us as far as I can remember, and this is something Moore can do anyways
Mikki Moore is as hungry and probably hungrier than joe smith, wasnt joe smith happy to stay with the thunder?
Oh No, The cavs have joe smith, the final nail in the coffin!!!!!
little bit much…its JOE FREAKIN SMITH
by TheAncientRivalry on Mar 2, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
It's not about how good Joe Smith is
it’s about how weak was their frontline after Wallace’s injury (consider that Big Z is only good for 25 minutes per game and that AV is foul-prone). JJ Hickson and Lorenzo Wright for 30 minutes? They’d be creamed by the league’s best frontcourts.
Just throwing out a possibility here that I personally don’t subscribe to…
Is it possible that, – even though he’s not a shotblocker – Danny valued Moore’s length to be able to at least disrupt the shooting of Big Z and/or Pau? Joe Smith is clearly a better player than Moore or our other backup bigs, but they’re all PFs; even though Moore is scrawney, that’s less of an issue matched up against a finese guy like Pau. He and Z are big enough where they can shoot right over BBD and Powe, and maybe Joe Smith as well.
Was Danny really looking for someone who was a legit 7 footer for those particular matchups?
Ainge on the Pruitt situation: “…we’ll suspend him for a couple of games. He’ll lose his minutes in the next couple of games. And who knows. Sometimes when you lose your minutes, you lose your job…” (WEEI.COM).
Is this a chance to open a roster spot and get somebody else?
A question.....
I would think with his track record…Danny Ainge would get the benefit of the doubt around here….that he knows what he’s doing.
We needed a backup PG, a backup swing guy (taller than 6’4), and a backup big taller than 6’8.
Two out of three, but I’m definitely concerned about that backup wing spot.
Almost right
We needed (1) a backup PG (done); (2) a backup SF (after Miles was cut, we had no one in that size category—and Walker?giddens are both SGs with TA size, NOT SFs with PP size); and (3) a backup big taller than 6’10" (done). Not bad.
All the palaver about Smith is pure hindsight. If he had sent clear signals, of course DA would have waited!
The Cavs are going to be very tough.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
??
Walker’s listed at 6’6", 220lb. Watching him in games, he looks like the prototypical SF to me. He’s not quite as big as LeBron, but who is? I don’t see him as being any smaller that Pierce.
You’re right about Walker. I think I skimmed Eeyore’s post. I agree that Walker’s an SF. He doesn’t have the floor game to be a two guard. He’s a power player, even though I think he’s only 6’5. He looks at least an inch shorter than PP to my eye, but he’s got the body to play taller guys. Seems moot, as Doc apparently has zero trust in giving him a try during meaningful minutes.
Other than that, the thrust of the post, that we needed a PG, a bigger than 6’4 swing, and a taller than 6’8 big remains the same, and Ainge filled two of those slots.
Not as big as listed
Watch any time he is near TA on the bench. Whether how he plays is more SG- than SF-like is immaterial.
If either Walker or Giddens were big enough to play LBJ, the whole cavil that we need a wing would be self-defeating.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Well, it’s not only about having the requisite size. You have to be able to play too, and on that front, Doc is firmly in the unconvinced category, or he’d have played him (or them) long before now. Hell, he played Baby plenty in his rookie season.
I’d say Walker is 6’5 and not the 6’6 as listed, but he’s a more natural SF than SG because he doesn’t have much of a floor game, at least that I’ve seen, anyway. He really plays almost like a PF in that 6’5 frame.
Anyway, Walker having the requisite size would not negate the ‘we need an SF’ argument if he doesn’t also have the required skillset to go along with it, and Doc’s dispensation of minutes says that he doesn’t.
Money talks?
Is it possible Cleveland just decided to pony up more money once Wallace went down? From one report I read it sounded like the Thunder didn’t want to let Smith go unless he gave back quite a bit of his contract. Sounds like the Cs gave Marbury the rest of the MLE and probably were only offering Smith the vet minimum in which case he wasn’t interested in being bought out to earn a net loss. Just a hunch but I think the dollars had more to do with it than we’ll hear about it in the press…
Firstt time, long time
hey, first time poster, long time reader…nice to finally be contributing
No brainer for the Cavs. Hard to fault Danny, considering the uncertainty regarding Smith. At this point the #1 seed is gone…time for Doc to start playing the “disrespect” card al little to get this team ready to do some damage on the road in the playoffs
by OutofServicePervis on Mar 2, 2009 11:54 AM EST reply actions
welcome to the participatory side, OoSP
Looking forward to your contributions.
I’ll keep holding out hope for homecourt, although it’s going to be tough, no doubt.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Mar 2, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Where Was Smith's Agent?
If Smith really wanted the Celtics, then it was his agent who screwed up, not Ainge. Ainge erred by not going after a wing defender in the first place.
Seeing as no significant wing guys were bought out, it would have required a trade to acquire one. We had precious little in trade assets this year.
You could then say that the mistake was made not getting the big wing guy in the offseason.
Still, he filled two of the three needs, and the backup wing need, if TA and Scal are healthy by the playoffs, will be less a concern, though I’d have still preferred better options than those two.
Could you please ...
… name a wing defender who is/was available for Danny to pick up after the trading deadline?
by TheGreenThumb on Mar 2, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Enough with this Joe Smith Fiasco!!!
We have Mikki and I concur that though Danny didn’t wait for Joe, He is not the one that will save this franchise as he is not that much better than Mikki at this point in their career…All he has is a better resume but Mikki will help us in as much as Joe does IMO.
My concern right now is PP playing WAAAAAAAYYYY too many minutes and its not even resulting in automatic wins…Doc, please listen to Paul….Don’t burn him out before the playoffs start…Play Walker or sign a wing defender, whatever…PP needs to go back to playing 35 minutes.
Give Him a Break
You can’t get upset at “what could have been”. Ainge did what was best for the team at that time when he picked up Mikki Moore. There was nothing else out there and they were running out of time to sign someone so that they were eligible for the playoffs.
I would rather pick up Mikki Moore (who I think is much better than people want to give him credit for) and have a big on the squad then wait for Smith to be bought out and then have to get into a bidding war with the Cavs and lose because they had more money to throw at him (right?). Then we would be left with no one and a really thin frontcourt.
It’s not worth stressing out over something that has already happened. Weirder things have happened. MAybe they can land Gooden somehow still.
If it was a mistake Danny wouldn’t have done it, that’s the answer, still no faith in the man around here. Sorry to detract from blogging but Danny and insiders and scouts are the only ones to answer that question with any semblance of legitimacy.
by davemonsterband on Mar 2, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions
Take a chance on Size???
I Think danny wanted smith, but didnt want to take a chance and wait it out and miss out on having some size on the bench, so he signed Moore…i really dont see anything special from Moore yet but he’s surrounded by talent that can make him better..So give the guy some time before you write him off, he may not be a difference maker, but he may make some key plays. like Doc say-“Dance with the girl you came with”….Good luck joe smith
Past the deadline??
We now cannot sign a player that can play in the playoffs, correct? That deadline was yesterday, no?
I’m still ticked that Phoenix was able to sign Barnes this offseason for nothing more than the vet minimum. Wouldn’t he be the perfect guy off the bench as the (slightly) bigger wing? With Phoenix being as much the cost-cutting outfit as they are, I wonder if Danny could have grabbed him in a deal kind of like the one we orchestrated with Cassell, or even just take him off Phoenix’s books using our exemption from the Cassell trade.
Grr… looks like Billy’s our best hope for another wing.
Luther Head
How’s about Luther Head? He plays hard and can shoot.
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