Is This It?
by Jeff Clark on Mar 24, 2009 9:28 AM EDT
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After reading the news about Leon Powe last night, I started wondering if this is as healthy as we are going to get this year. I don't have any new information and I'm far, far, far from having any medical insight. But is it really that big of a stretch to wonder if any of the guys still out can make it back to contributing on the court?
Doc said it all last night: “None of them are playing any time soon.”
Lets run down the list...
Leon Powe has had multiple surgeries on his knees. At first the Celtics made it sound like he bruised his knee, but later started calling it a sprain. Again, I'm no expert, but I know that the knee is one of those things you don't mess around with. I'm really hoping that he'll be back by the playoffs at 100%. I'm just putting it out there that he might not be.
As for Tony Allen, haven't we seen this movie already? Reports are positive that he'll be able to recover faster than expected. But every time he comes back from an injury it takes him some time to get back into the swing of things. He needs extended minutes even when fully healthy to be effective (Doc has said so on multiple occasions). Shoot, I'll go so far as to say that under ideal circumstances he's prone to brain-sprains anyway. He came back from injury last year around this time but never got back into the flow. Will he be any different this year?
Now about Brian Scalabrine. Not only am I not an expert on this, but I venture to say that nobody really understands the brain fully. I am going to echo Sean Grande's thoughts here and say that I wouldn't be surprised if Scalabrine is done, and not just for this year. We all saw what a valuable asset he had become on the court (as well as off it). It would be a real shame to lose him from the team. What would be a much, much bigger shame would be to risk damaging his brain in any way, shape, or form because he was put on a court without being 100% sure it was safe.
So, if we assume the worst case on all three of those guys, then we are left with the roster constructed as you've seen in the last couple of games. Garnett will get up to speed sooner rather than later and Doc will try to limit the big three's minutes, but for the most part we have a pretty well defined rotation.
After the starters, we are looking at Glen Davis and Eddie House being the first big and small off the bench. Both are prone to streaky play, but both have proved their worth and can play their role exceptionally well.
Beyond that you have two players still trying to get "up to speed." Marbury is already showing that he can be an above average distributor and handle the ball. His shots haven't fallen yet (Doc promises that they will) and he's never been a good defender (no promises there). If he can run the pick and roll and not turn the ball over, he'll be a decent backup that allows Eddie House to play the 2 spot.
Mikki Moore is about what he was advertised as. He's an energy guy that has length and can hit a midrange jumper when he's left open. He's also foul prone and slow on the rotations that are critical to the defensive system.
Bill Walker is a bit of a wildcard. He's still a rookie and he still does a lot of rookie things on the court. On the other hand, he's showed that he can make plays with his energy and athleticism and he might already be more court-aware than Tony Allen. Doc showed last year with Glen Davis that he's not afraid to use a rookie from time to time when the situation calls for it. With a shortage of backups for Paul Pierce, we might see a good bit of Walker down the stretch and even into the playoffs some.
Keep in mind that we've still got some time left in this season. A lot can happen in the last month of the regular season and the first couple of rounds last longer than one might expect. If we can get one or two of the injured 3 back and contributing sometime in the playoffs, that would be a bonus. Getting Powe back would make me feel a whole lot better.
Otherwise, we're going to have to count on the new guys to find their groove sooner or later. Stephon, Mikki, and even Billy will each have to find a way to find a niche on this team and limit mistakes enough that they can be counted on during the pressure of the playoffs. They have less than a month to get into the groove.
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I think we'll be ok without Powe,
IF, and I mean IF Mikki picks it up and stops sucking, especially if we can get Tony back and playing decent. But right now, Mikki sucks and I’d rather see Powe out there.
Mikki
needs to play within himself and get the rotations down
he doesn’t need to be Powe, he just needs to plug a hole
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
we NEED powe in the playoffs…i expect we don’t get him until round 2…I think Scal is done for the season and might be forever. Tony Allen..no feeling one way with him…..mikki moore has yet to impress me. he fouls WAY too much and I get sick seeing joe smith provide solid minutes at both ends of the floor for the Cavs thinking he could have been boston’s. Pierce is going to log a ton of minutes in the playoffs. I wish Doc would have gone to Walker early in the season for meaningful PT. I think he could help this team if he would have been given minutes to improve the entire season.
by celticinorlando on Mar 24, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions
I can understand the skepticism on TA, but I’m not going to write him off yet. We haven’t seen him play with Marbury; I don’t know if that will be a winning combination or not, but I’m interested to see it. Another thing to consider is that his injury is not a knee injury. They said he’s been able to keep in better shape because of that. Hopefully that means the mental block of coming back is smaller too.
The thing about guys like Mikki (who I haven’t been impressed by either—like the effort for the most part, but not impressed), Marbury and TA is that in the playoffs, they don’t necessarily have to be that consistent. We saw Powe, House and PJ Brown have a big game here or there last year in the playoffs, but it’s not like they were consistent. The starters are going to play a little more anyway, so I’m not too worried.
very good point...
those bench guys played a good game here and there. as long as they come out and aren’t a MINUS we’ll be alright because we have the best starting 5 in basketball.
that being said, a bench with stephon marbury, house at the 2, and big baby/powe with a year of more experience is more talent then we had last year coming in, IMO of course.
by WillyBeamin on Mar 24, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Why these career threatening words on Scal?
Is it really a possibility? I thought he was already in practice mode to return in April…
because when you get 3 concussion in a month
you are at serious risk to do some real permanent damage.
by WillyBeamin on Mar 24, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not as depressed as Jeff is regarding Leon. Whether it’s a strain or sprain, it’s recoverable. Given his history, it makes perfect sense they would take their time bringing him back.
Scal is a concern and I echo Grande’s sentiments of the other night.
Doc likes Tony, so I would expect to see him play before the first round.
Bottom line however, I think without Scal and Leon it makes repeating much tougher. I don’t think Tony makes a difference one way or the other.
Some props for TA, Scal returns, and Powe is 100% (because we need him)
Here’s my take on TA — it’s a thumb. I’m thinking that I don’t need, or want, his thumb. His J is stiff and he misses layups. What I want from this dude is his spark and ability to defend superstars without fouling. Let’s be honest — our D is a bit weaker than last year and we’re still turning over the ball like crazy. I think TA becomes a lot more valuable in the playoffs than I’m seeing anyone give him credit for. He can apply a lot of pressure without sending us into the penalty, and I think that’s incredibly important come playoff time. My only question within my glow for the guy is if he’ll be in shape.
Great point about the brain, Jeff — you’re right. But I think Scal is okay. Danny and Doc have a way of keeping some smokescreens adrift, and I don’t think you find out anything about Mikki, Marbury, or Walker if Scal minutes are in the mix. I’m not suggesting that the guy isn’t hurt — just that there’s no rush to bring him back when we need to get talent level figured out.
I can’t agree with anyone that thinks we don’t need Leon. And I think he’ll be in great shape when he returns. He banged knees — if you’ve ever had that injury you’ll remember that it feels like hell for awhile, but there’s rarely any lingering damage. But we need this big guy in the middle to keep the paint tough. Although I hated losing KG for a few weeks, it’s apparent that Leon desperately needed those minutes to get back on track.
So I think we get a lot healthier in the next couple weeks — but can it gel? Don’t know, but I have a my lucky shirts clean and folded for this year’s run.
Need Leon, Tony and Scal are insurance...
I think all 3 will be back. However Scal and Tony are our 11th and 12th men right now, so they are strictly insurance. Insurance helps though, because you never know what is going to happen. Perk, Davis and KG have all been bothered by injury, so having Scal dressing for the playoffs would certainly be reassuring. However if all goes to plan, we shouldn’t really need him.
Leon is the key of course, since he will almost always be our 1st guy off the bench in the playoffs. I’m sure he will probably finish a handful of games too for us. He’s also a severe upgrade from Mikki Moore, who would be filling his minutes if he can’t go. That is exactly why Doc will bring him back as slowly as possible. Leon has played enough games this year to be fine going into the playoffs as far as rhythm goes. Just get him back for the last couple weeks of the season and he’ll be fine. Bill Walker is also just another insurance guy, we shouldn’t see much of him in the playoffs unless Tony does not come back and there is some foul trouble or an injury.
SCOTT
Back
Powe’s coming back. He played a bit right after his injury, so unless something else happened that nobody knows about, he’ll be back. No way is Scal playing this season. Absolutely no way. They’re not even letting him RUN yet! But there is no reason for his career to end… he should be back next season. TA’s apparently coming back, but what good will he be coming back just in time for the playoffs? I think Billy makes up for that loss.
Good run-down Jeff. Here’s my take on the reserves:
Powe — a must have just for his physicality, I hope they’re just being overly cautious like they were with KG.
Davis — has really been playing well (I was on the Powe side of the Powe/Davis debate) and I think the biggest difference is he’s playing within his limitations and playing with confidence. He’s a smart player and I think is gonna play an important (PJ Brown-esque) role in the playoffs.
House — locked and loaded.
Scal — I think he could have played a very important role in the playoffs, as he was really playing well. I’m hopeful that between Davis’ improved play and Moore getting up to speed, this is more a moral absence than a loss of bench production.
Marbury — I’ve been very underwhelmed by his shooting and defensive effort — i understand that he, like Moore, probably doesn’t get the rotations yet, but the effort also seems to be lacking. I do think he’s done a good job as a distributor with the 2nd unit. If that’s all he brings in 15-20 mins or so, I guess that’s fine.
Moore — his offense is good, defense he’s still working on catching on. I think he’s a solid addition (esp. if Powe misses a lot of time), and could very well be back next season.
Walker — I have been VERY impressed with his increased confidence on offense. He’s looking to shoot, making quick decisions, and he’s not just sitting out at the 3 point line. Still isn’t there on the defensive end, but I think can be a contributor — albeit sporadically — in the playoffs. If nothing else he can provide some minutes for R. Allen and Pierce.
Pruitt — I liked what I saw from Pruitt when he was out there. I realy wish next year they’d give him the role Marbury has on this team PG to play alongside House at the 2 and trade Tony Allen.
just my 2 cents
by Gainesville Celtic on Mar 24, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions
PO
Like many others have said here PO(we) is the key. Eddie House gives me more confidence in him every time I see him play. His work ethic is terrific. He plays hard on D and that three opens up the floor. Mikki Moore is a bust with dreadlocks (Kandiman II) – plain and simple. Hustles but that’s it. He won’t “change ’ anything off the bench. BBD is a valuable piece and can "change” a game in the right moments.
Had Billy Walker got some more PT when we were blowing people out early in the season he would be worth more now. Next season he is the new TA and the old TA is no longer a Celtic. Pruit ? He is toast on this team and he and everyone else knows it.
Marbury - hate him still with a passion – but he is our only true formerly gifted wildcard who might find a way to shine in the playoffs….. but I think that star on the side of his head when soon start flashing “empty tank”.
Feel bad for Scal but I would grab the milk jug, some doughnuts and the remote – enjoy the playoffs.
Nice article Jeff
Is it Soup Yet?
think you're wrong about pruitt
marbury isn’t in our future plans, and we’d be fools to slide eddie back to the backup PG roles with how well he’s performed as a 2 guard. I think pruitt is our low-cost future backup PG, as soon as next season.
by WillyBeamin on Mar 24, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
couldn't agree with you more about mikki though
he is just AWFUL. he loves fouling, just loves it.
by WillyBeamin on Mar 24, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, my thoughts on Marbury are well known. PLEASE give Nate Pruitt a legitimate shot at those pg minutes. How long does Marbury have to stink before they give it up? And last night was one of his better games. He actually made a shot and stayed in front of BDiddy on the last play of the first half.
However, when he and Moore come in, the offense goes into the tank.
I meant Gabe Pruitt
Nate Pruitt is a jazz singer.
not so sure about this
marbury has been a “+” during this recent win streak, dating back to the Miami game last week. He took a huge charge in the SA game showing he is grasping the rotations. He has been distributing the ball well in all these games, and seems to be on the verge of finding his shooting stroke.
pruitt got a chance earlier this season, and showed next to nothing that makes me think he deserves minutes over marbury.
by WillyBeamin on Mar 24, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Powe, but I don't see
how we can’t win without him.
He is very key but...
We can absolutely win without him. Perk, Davis and KG would just have to log more minutes and stay out of foul trouble. Mikki Moore would have to step into about 10 minutes a game, but I think he’s more than capable of filling that role. Also if Scal were to come back, we would be fine. We have to understand that KG, Pierce, Ray and Rondo will all play about 40 minutes a night in the playoffs. Trust me, we have enough depth in our bench to win a championship without Leon Powe. With that said, please come back Leon because I’d feel a lot more confident about our chances with him in uniform.
SCOTT
by Vegas Scott on Mar 24, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
eddie is gold if
feed the ball correctly in stripe…. otherwise he is not so good. Stephan has not done that for Eddie yet.
I’d be surprised if Scal makes it back… but i think powe & TA will give it a shot come Playoff time …. how they preform is another question.
Lots of Ifs right now...
People are more confident about Eddie House than I’ll ever be… Historically, he’s always struggled in the playoffs…because in the playoffs defenses tighten…House is so easy to guard (though he does stretch the floor) that ANY playoff team, with time to gameplan, will easily make him a non-factor…and while he’s on a ridiculous shooting spree right now, I think it’s foolish to think that’ll continue into the playoffs…and then we’ll be left with a no-defense 6 foot bomber who can’t dribble or create for others….
Hopefully TA’s back and has Doc’s confidence by the playoffs…so we can platoon him and Eddie based on matchups….I’d feel a hell of a lot more confident if that were the case…on a team predicated on defense I’m more inclined to play defensive players…
Unless the team is hiding something from us, I expect Powe to be back near playoff time…which is nice, as it will move Moore out of major playing time, and push Baby to play better. Moore is nothing but the 5th big man on this team…he can be effective in stretches, but overall he’s a bad defensive player and (read above) I don’t think bad defensive players should be seeing consistent time in the playoffs…
Marbury will be the back up point guard come playoff time and like Doc I think he’ll win us a game by himself. He’s still slowly working himself into shape and getting the offense under his belt…hopefully, he’s the first guard off the bench in the playoffs.
As for TA…people have bad memories or long grudges…the guy was flat-out the best bench player on the squad before he was injured…he’s light years ahead of Bill Walker at this point in their respective careers (I love Bill Walker, but he’s not ready)…other than injuries, the biggest roadblock to consistency for him has been the makeup of this team…with Eddie House at point guard, TA was asked to take on more playmaking responsibilities than he could handle…now with Marbury at the helm, expect TA—if given an opportunity—to fit in nicely, getting out on the break, cutting to the basket and playing good defense. With Marbury at the point, TA can finally concentrate on what he does best and be put into a position to succeed. He’s a big wildcard come playoff time, and hopefully Doc doesn’t bury him on the bench in favor of House—that would be a big mistake…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Mar 24, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
while you are clearly a TA fan with that name
you make a great point about being put in a posistion to suceed. We hear that term a lot with the Patriots and Celtics nowadays, and I don’t knwo that TA has ever really been put in a posistion to suceed, and to only play to his strengths. We’ve always asked him to be more of a playmaker then he really is, force feeding him PG minutes and ball-handling responsibilities.
my big concern with him is he has no jumpshot, and anytime he is on the floor with the first unit he is getting kickouts from the big 3 for jumpers he can’t hit.
that being said, you put him at the 3 on the second unit with house and marbury, and he could flourish.
by WillyBeamin on Mar 24, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting debate on Gabe
when compiling a list of names of guys who might not be here next year (understanding that a lot can happen between now and the offseason) he’s right up there
I’ll have to ponder this
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
we need powe...
leon has the highest number of FT in the league for a bench player..which tells u something about his game..he is so agreesive in the paint both on offensive and defensive side, i donno how we can win without him…
moore, forget bout him..
Disagree w Brickowski and Salmon&MP
Good comments for sure by both.
As for Brick, he wears his disdain for Marbury on his sleeve. Marbury earned it. No argument there . But I think Danny might be on to something. His shot is awful still but his ball handling is way up. He’s quick advancing the ball and he’s working on D. Remember, Brick, you were Executive Director of “Fire Doc” club and so once in a while you may be wrong. I hope you are about Marbury. I’m a softie for our own draft picks but I don’t see Pruitt ready yet. He had two nice rebounds yesterday but there’s just a soft hesitation to him. If he evern gets it it will be with this group but he’s made no real progress this year as far as I can see. And, I like the components of his game – size, shot, moves well on D, not a TO machine.
As for Salmon, you are blinded by what Eddie is not. He is offensive lightning in a bottle and that comes in handy in playoffs. And wild man defensive effort can cover a lot of natural shortcomings. AND, you are drinking Tony Allen kool aid. He’s had moments like you refer to and we all wonder what kind of player is about to emerge. But he’s sooooo inconsistent. He is still the guy on the team most likely to foul a guy behind the 3pt arc. He HAS rediced the bouncing the dribble off the side of his foot. If the Tony you dream for shows up, you are right on money. But you just don’t know with him.
Handy yes, consistent we'll see I guess
My ideal scenario is a House/TA platoon, depending on matchups and the hot hand.
You also might be blinded by what TA is not. I’d like to see him play with a real point guard before we make any final pronouncements. Playing with a PG has done wonders for House/Powe/Baby/Walker….it’s gotta do something good for TA too. His inconsistency has come from two things, both outside his control—injuries and being asked to be a defacto point guard. He should be healthy come playoff time and we now have a legitimate point guard on the 2nd team. I expect him to contribute. He’s the forgotten man on this team, has been so for 2 years now, and I’m thinking he’s due to surprise. If Doc gives him a chance, that is.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Mar 24, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Green Tinted Glasses
I think people are looking at Marbury with those green tinted glasses. Give me a break. He’s shooting 20%, turning it over and playing indifferent defense. Unfortunately for Pruitt he went into the doghouse with that DUI incident before they learned how terrible Marbury was going to be.
Pruitt defends better, shoots better, rebounds better and can get to the rim and dish just as well as Marbury, whose career is nearly over.
Marbury is going to get killed by guys like D. West, D. Gibson and S. Pavlovic. Just you wait. With Pruitt, at least we’ve got a fighting chance.
Rivers is the one with extra compensation riding on playoff results, not me. So Marbury is his problem. I’m just a fan.
Posey
You betray me………with a kiss?!?
by The Real Large James 2 on Mar 24, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions
Hmmm… when was the last time Gabe actually dribble into the paint area? As bad as Marbury is as a shooter, at least he can drive and dish it off to somebody. Can Gabe Pruitt do that? The answer is no. With all the complaining about Eddie as the PG, now you want Pruitt, a shooting guard to do the same thing? The argument makes no sense. This is as lame as people giving Big Baby a spot in a future all star game after a few great games.
Daniel Gibson is basically Eddie House who can dribble, but he is not a driver. His offense is basically pass it to Lebron and wait for the ball to come back to him. Why do you think his assist rate is so poor? There is a reason. (Gibson averages 1.7 in 24 min while Marbury does 2.9 in 17) Pavlovic is a SF/SG, Marbury is a PG. Unless Doc is stupid enough to use Marbury as a SG, it shouldn’t be a problem. You are asking a guy who is 6’2 to guard a guy who is a few inches taller. I am a fan of Gabe, but he is not the answer at backup PG.
By the way, Gibson shoots 36%, big deal…
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