Will Starbury Shine?
I meant to cover this yesterday, but I ran out of time and it looks like Red's Army and Tom Ziller have beat me to the punch. I'm not about to try to decipher the Starbury code and make any attempt to understand what's going on inside that guy's head. That is something I'll leave to the slobbering Pavlov's dogs that is the NY media. Unless he actually becomes a distraction in the lockerroom, I'll focus on his on-court performance.
So far, not so good. Ziller has it right when he says we've given him mostly a free pass thus far. He's also right that at some point he's going to have to show us a lot more.
Stephon Marbury has not played well this season. The analysts on T.V. and (let's be honest) the fans in Boston have given him a pass because, well, he hasn't played real live NBA basketball in more than a year. Fair enough. He's rusty, he's learning a new offense and defense, he's (for the most part) coming off the bench, something he has rarely done in his career. I buy it: Starbury has stunk, but there are some mitigating explanations.
But the excuses stop holding water in four weeks when the playoffs start. If at that point Starbury still cannot play, Doc Rivers and friends will have to make a decision whether to feature him in the rotation or to bury him in Sam Cassell's old sweatsuit.
To me it has to happen sooner than the start of the playoffs. He has to shake off the rust and play up to the standards that everyone has set for him. The bar isn't that high (in my mind). He just needs to handle the ball and run the pick and roll and knock down midrange jumpers when the shots come within the flow of the offense.
Will he be able to do that? Only time will tell, but that is something we are starting to run out of. So far he's played 14 largely forgettable games. There are only 9 games left on the schedule to get it right. I'm still holding out hope, but I grow more concerned each day.
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He's exceeded my expectations
……Only because the ones I set were that he wasn’t an instant train wreck.
It would be asking a lot to expect a lower profile player to come in at this time of year with a new team and excel at the toughest position in the NBA.
To ask an overrated career self-absorbed head case, who’s used to garnering attention, and who hasn’t played in a year to excel in a limited backup role is delusional.
I have no idea why Danny did this.
I see this only getting worse. Marbury, IMHO, is Iverson-light. Just another self-absorbed team wrecking stat-hound. He still thinks he’s a great player….He never was. I hope I’m wrong.
Moore
I’m a lot more concerned with how poorly Mikki Moore has played. With Leon hurt and not coming back until the playoffs start, we are going to need some Playoff minutes from Moore. So far he hasn’t shown a bit of defensive ability and has only done one thing well. Make the 10 foot jumper. Let’s hope he can improve his rotations to take some charges instead of being a step slow and getting blocks every time.
by ShakersJacobson on Mar 26, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
The Prognosis is Not Good
There is a reason why every team that Marbury has been on has lost. As Finkelsyhook points uout, he wasn’t a winning player even when he was a “star.”
I do not see how they can possibly get past Cleveland with Marbury playing any sort of role, and if they can’t hold on to the #2 seed, I seriously doubt if they can get out of the second round.
At some point they have to give up and start playing Pruitt. He’s no panacea, but he’s way better than Marbury. Otherwise they’re toast.
Marbury isn’t going to get any better. If you think he will, you are kidding yourselves.
I suppose a second unit backcourt of House and Tony Allen might work for short stretches, so long as they have some other ballhandlers on the floor at the same time, e.g. Ray Allen and BBD.
Mikki Moore has been pretty awful too, but if Powe can come back they won’t have to rely on Mikki. Unfortunately, the #2 seed may be gone by the time Powe returns.
s e r e n i t y n o w
I agree, Moore has been not been ’PJ Brown-esque"
Not even close (though PJ was a bit off at first as I recall).
And I too hope that Powe comes back full strength.
However, to advance down the stretch, I the Celtics are clearly betting on Marbury’s experience over Pruitt’s untested reliability.
Moreover, I believe it is their philosophy that a healthy Celtics team can beat anyone.
So the limited minutes we’re seeing for KG, or even extended rehabs of key players will be very helpful come the playoffs…
A re-energized Powe will replace many of Moore’s minutes
A re-energized Tony Allen will replace many of Bill Walker’s minutes
A re-energized Kevin Garnett will solidify and stabilize the defense.
Scal??
And Marbury, like it or not, will play Pruitt’s minutes…and House’s.
The playoffs are only a few weeks away…it is what it is.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
Bill Walker should get more minutes...
Doc has a potent weapon in Bill Walker and should take the trouble to prepare him for a role in the playoffs. He’s got a great attitude, great athleticism, and he’s a valuable defensive swingman.
You are more interested in being right than having it work
Every single comment you have made on Marbury for weeks has been doom and gloom. Not sure how much you have played yourself, but being away from the game for 14 months, is not made up for in 14 games, especially at the NBA level. If you have played, you understand, that even at a rec level, if you tried to come back after 14 months off, your game would be extremely affected. And it is not just rust, it is the explosiveness needed, especially to score.
Many have characterized Steph as deferring too much in the name of proving he is unselfish, passing up open looks. I don’t think that is the case at all. I have come back from a long layoff, and your instincts are still good, so making the right play, finding teammates, etc. all come back quick, and you can reasonably contribute while still not feeling like you can explode past someone or over someone to score. Scoring for yourself is the last thing to come physically. You can see it in his game, when he gets into the lane, his instincts are still good, but he lacks that oomph to really get to the hole. Will it come for Steph this year? That is not a certainty, there may just not be enough time to make up for the time lost, but if you think he has no room to get better, you are kidding yourself.
If they can’t hold onto the #2 seed they can’t get out of the 2nd round? Again, you will take more satisfaction in being right about your negativity it seems than to root for this team. Many teams have gotten past the 2nd round without having the #2 seed, especially defending champs that are healthy, think Houston in ‘95 as the #6 seed amongst many other examples. If the C’s are at full strength, all it takes to upset the balance of “homecourt” is 1 win, that’s 1 win away from home, and it does not have to be the 7th game either, it could be 1,2, or 5 that they get that done.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and you don’t have green goggles on, etc, etc., I get it, but every single comment you make is with pride about all the faults, shortcomings, etc. it’s just wearing thin. Are the C’s a lock? Is Steph guaranteed to be a big help? Of course not, but his and their chances are far greater than what you represent them to be.
I'm Interested in Winning Another Championship, Period
And I believe that the way to do that is to put Marbury at the end of the bench and leave him there.
That's just Brick's schtick...
He is overly negative and writes more with his heart than his head the deeper the season gets or the more dire the situation appears.
I think Marbury has done a very solid job at running the point thus far – he is still inconsitent, but he’s had some very good stints running the show and finding players within the offense.
We’ll see if the last 10 games are enough for him to turn the corner, but I don’t fear him running the point for this team as a ball-handler and Pick-and-Roll threat – he’s done that well enough for me to be satisfied that he can handle it.
by BillfromBoston on Mar 26, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch
VERY well put. Thank you! I’m getting tired of all the negativity as well.
by Berkeley1297 on Mar 26, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not worried about Marbury. He has about a month to get in game shape. His jump shot will start to fall I am more concerned about his quickness because his biggest strength was getting to the basket and now he can not beat his man.
The bigger problem is Moore. He just isn`t very good. We need Powe and Scal back for the playoffs, if they are healthy, I don`t expect to see Mikki get much playing time in the postseason…
Starbury deserves more time. Sam kind of sucked for us last year and he had played most of the season, then he took House’s minutes for most of the playoffs which made no sense. If Steph improves a couple notches in the next month, that will be better than we got from Sam and Doc also probably won’t make the mistake of benching Eddie. I count that as two positives. Steph certainly hasn’t been a gunner like Sam was.
As fas as Mikki, its true that what matters there is Perk, Powe and Baby’s health. Mikki was never going to get anything other than spotty minutes.
Journey to the Center of Steph's Mind
I was hugely chastised in here and in the chat for being too NEGATIVE on Starbury. I hope I am still wrong but I think not.
I was worried about him being a head-case (which he is as leopards never change their spots or the Stars tatooed on their heads) I was also worried about him upsetting team chemistry (not yet I assume but it still makes me nervous).
What I did NOT realize about this traveling snake-oil salesman is that his tank is empty apparently (matches his head). Whatever quickness in his first step he had in his earlier career that got him into the paint seems to be gone.
(On a side note I love Rondo but Rondo seems to be getting “to cute” with his passes lately and he needs to watch that IMO).
I think Stephanie will have a couple of moments where people go “wow that was great”, but for the most part the chant will be “Get Rondo back in” , and quite frankly Eddie House is better a point anyway at this time. I will have to say Starbury has been unselfish with the ball with some decent assists so please do not say I was all negative.
Finally Mikki Moore is in shambles. His mind is gone, confidence gone, and a good stiff wind blows him over. The Ganja Foul Machine (GFM) is a bust.
I love this line by Jeff
I’m not about to try to decipher the Starbury code and make any attempt to understand what’s going on inside that guy’s head hahahahaha – that’s good as you would need to pack a lunch – I am sure it’s quite a journey to the center of that strange cavern. You might be able to find your way howvever by following the flashing neon signs that say “QUITTER”
Is it Soup Yet?
I thought the Positivity started out with a PO?
So negative!
GFM is more of an issue than Steph. I don’t think there is a big difference between steph/eddie/gabe at the backup slot. They are all a downgrade from Rajon and all have strengths and weaknesses. We need a better back up point option next year – AJ Price perhaps?
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
GFM... heh heh heh...
But seriously, whine somewhere else – stick to the humour… ganja foul machine? I played with that dude in Dorchester…
Playoffs
Time for now is still on our side. Marbury, Mikey, Powe, TA, Scal and KG have almost a month to recover or get better playing with the team. We might not get them all back but at least we have some time. So many other things can change from team to team and also on the Celtics. I believe if we get Powe back most of the problems go away but who knows to early to tell.
I thought this would generate more debate but...
it seems people are either
a. already sick of the topic from the Nov – Feb endless speculation
b. too entrenched in their own views to budge an inch
c. watching March Madness
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
d. checked out until the playoffs start as these games don’t really matter
(that’s my choice btw)
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
too entrenched in their own views to budge an inch? Blah!!!!!
If we were all Willow trees in here (and some are) we would flop back and forth with our opinions every good and bad things he does. If we were all Oak trees in here (and some are) we would never budge our opinions no matter how hard the wind blew in one direction, or no matter how well he succeeded, or how much he failed.
So far Mr Clark the weather vane I am looking at, Steph has basically blown in one direction – the direction of a stinky NY Isiah wind"
Well Sir Rants A Lot let me inform you I am neither an Oak tree, nor a Willow tree. Willow trees are maybe what you desire in here. Willow trees designed to flop back and forth like Mikki Moore on defense to discuss ad nausem some overpaid primadonna who has seems to always blow in from some other town his whole career with a great big cloud of stink and controversy around him.
I think yoour option “B” should have an “S” after it – and I demand an “overblown” apology. – hehehehe.
BTW – I am a Coconut Tree nestled on a beautful beach in the British Virgin Islands and last night loss really screwed with with my coconuts.
Is it Soup Yet?
true story
my Dad had a 58 ‘Vette that he owned since it was new – he loved that car (maybe not as bad as the guy in Farris Buller, but a lot). Anyway, one day (early 90’s) when he was working on another car, he failed to put a brick under the ’Vette’s wheel and the parking brake gave out. It rolled down the hill and hit a huge Weeping Willow tree. Sad, sad day in the Clark household.
what were we talking about again?
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
well, I did say it was a "weeping" willow tree didn't I?
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
that's cold Po.
but funny.
GFM might be my favorite thing you’ve said this season by the way.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
Wahz is on the right track
If Marbury is to get in synch with the offense, it is not with a banged up second unit with Moore trying running around helter skelter.
So yes, if there is any hope of Marbury improving and helping out, I think he needs to play with the starters a good bit these last few games.
Our first unit is mostly intact and he’ll likely learn more from playing with the big 3 than from BBD, House, Walker, Moore . . . two of whom have very little experience in the C’s system. Marbury is not the only reason our second unit is in chaos.
by Thruthelookingglass on Mar 26, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions
steph has not been a gem and i don’t like him and he stank last night, butthere are glimmers of hope and he has not been a bad influence. there is something positive he will give us, and let’s not scapegoat him. he is not the reason we’ve lost some games. if he continues with bad games, he’ll sit. in the meantime, rondo is hobbled if anyone noticed.
Answer
With Rondo recently suffering 2 sprained ankles, let the kid sit out the Hawks game. It’s nuts to risk more serious injury by letting him play. Let him rest/heal instead.
This would give Doc one near-last chance to see if Marbury can step up with big minutes. Sink or swim, let him start and play 30-40 minutes. We lose, we lose. But we need an answer about Marbury, one way or the other, and there’s not much more time to get it. If he messes up, as he has more often than not recently, then that’s that… he rides the pine.
I was against the Marbury signing. Not because of the baggage. I thought he’d be a defensive liability and that would make up for any offensive prowess. His first game back however he looked good. I thought this was an incredible steal. Now however, I’m more pessimistic than I was prior to the signing. Having he and Eddie on the court at the same time isn’t working defensively. His offense isn’t there. The ‘flashes’ he shows are signs to everyone of what he’s going to be like. I hope so. Or, they could just be flashes of what he once was. I don’t know. I keep wondering what would have happened if Gabe would have been given the leash Marbury has. We’ll never know, and any comments are pure speculation, but I do wish Gabe and Eddie could have gotten more run at the one and two over the past month.
In the meantime, I’d rather be the third seed right now anyway looking at the match-ups. The playoffs are when its got to be all in place. It would be nice if everyone were ready to play by then, albeit still rusty.
I have posted this idea somewhere else — maybe Marbury needs to play with an attitude in order to be effective. And he needs more minutes with the starters to get into the system.
I agree, he's an attitude player...
… unfortunately… this is a team mentality and the ‘me against the world’ doesn’t play well with that…
also he’s probably got it in his head and heart that he belongs with the big three out there. Not sure how that will work out for us or him.
Steph/Mikki??
I’ve been really disappointed with Steph and Moore. With Steph, to me it seems he’s not playing with the same level of passion as the others. I thought, with Kevin coming back, Steph’s game would re-form itself (though, I don’t think I’ve yet to see the two on the court at the same time), but instead, he’s playing with no passion. Okay, there have been some pretty passes, here and there, but that’s all I’ve seen. Really, I’ve been rooting for him since he signed with us, but my enthusiasm is diminishing by the day. I haven’t given up yet, but to think he’s going to be a superstar come post-season, is a dream. As for Mikki, he really got to me watching the Orlando game. He’s too lanky for this team, and the amount of charges he takes – leads me to think he may be out with an injury by playoffs time. With him, I do see the passion that Steph lacks, but I guess I just feel like he doesn’t have the muscle (mental/physical) to get us that 2nd ring. I mean, just imagine how Leon would have matched up against Howard the other night vs. Mikki matching up. I almost feel like Mikki would strive more at PF. He just doesn’t play with his body the way I like to see Centers play. He’s kind of like a scarecrow waiting to get knocked down by a shaq-tractor…and that damn hair! I wish he would shave that of for the playoffs. That can’t make the game any easier for him. Can’t wait for Leon and Scal to come back.
foot in my mouth
Wow, what a game last night. Maybe Steph read my post(?) At any rate, I’m feeling a lot better about him in the rotation now. Mikki still worries me, but he worried me less last night.
- Jon






























