Big Baby or Leon Powe or Both?
by Jeff Clark on Mar 30, 2009 12:41 PM EDT
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I'm taking a brief break from the current season and playoffs to look ahead to the offseason. Keeping in mind that the playoffs can and will change a whole lot about our perceptions, we can at least have a spirited debate over who will and won't be back next year.
The two biggest decisions happen to play the same position. Glen "Big Baby" Davis and Leon Powe are practically in a platoon situation. If this was baseball, you'd be seeing one of them play against right handers and the other against lefties. Both are restricted free agents and both have made a case for staying past this year. Do you bring them both back? If not, who do you chose?
Glen Davis has been playing out of his mind lately. He's scored 19 or more in 3 of the last 5 games and he's really helped keep things afloat with Garnett and Powe both missing time. This couldn't be coming at a better time for him personally because he's a restricted free agent at the end of the season.
Not sure how many remember this, but back when he signed as a 2nd round pick, he took a 2 year deal rather than the 3 year deal Gabe Pruitt signed so that he would be able to cash in earlier with a free agent deal. The obvious risk was that he could have gotten injured or flat out failed to play up to his potential and could have been out of a contract or even the league that much earlier. So far it looks like the gamble is going to pay off bigtime.
In an article over the weekend, Marc Spears gave us an idea of Big Baby's market value right now:
Davis's play likely will draw interest during free agency this summer. The ex-Louisiana State star is making $711,517 this season, and one general manager said he could command $3 million-$5 million per season. Since Davis is a restricted free agent, the Celtics could match any offer.
"It's hard not to think about it," said Davis of free agency. "But I'm just trying to go out there and play."
Again, the playoffs could shift things, but it is starting to seem like Baby will be a coveted player this offseason. On the other hand, you have to remember the economy and the expected effect it will have on the free agent market.
Since the Celtics can match any offer, they will likely let him play the market and see what offers he can get. They'll also likely play that game of "we will match any reasonable offer" intended to scare teams away from giving him offers, thus keeping the price from escalating. Chances are good that teams won't have a lot to spend anyway. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
In a similar situation, of course, is Leon Powe. He's been on the shelf for the last several games, but he appears to be on track to return for the playoffs. He's averaging more points and rebounds than Davis (in fewer minutes) and during a recent stretch of games tallied 20, 12, 23, and 30 points (with 11, 7, 13, and 11 rebounds respectively).
So you have to wonder if these guys were not in a platoon situation if we would see more consistency out of one of them. Keep in mind, many of these big games have happened because KG was out of the lineup, creating a void that each man has filled admirably. If we only have one of the two next year, we can't assume they'll start averaging double doubles just because they don't have to share time with each other.
So I think in an ideal world the easy answer would be this: Bring them both back! Who cares if they somewhat duplicate each other? As we've seen, you can never have too many competent big bodies that know the system and have no fear during high pressure situations. At the very worst, we could always trade one of them in the future rather than letting him walk this offseaon for nothing.
Again, we come back to the market. If both guys get offers in the $3-$5 million range, will that be too steep for the Celtics to match on both? Keep in mind the team will likely be luxury tax payers again next year. Also keep in mind that there could be some bargains to be had with the Mid Level Exception (teams won't want to give big name guys the big money they would have commanded in prior offseasons). Finally, keep in mind that we absolutely have to earmark some future funds to lock up Rajon Rondo till he's Cousy's age.
So the we may not get our first option. If not, what is plan B? Perhaps a sign-and-trade for whomever we can get the best value for? Or maybe the team will just have to make the unenviable decision of keeping one or the other.
So what would you chose if given the option right now? Keep Leon? Keep Baby? Keep them both (regardless of cost)? Let them both walk and go after bigger fish?
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Keep Big Baby!
Hellls yeah I said it!
But seriously, we need to keep both.
Big Baby has improved dramatically, but will never be the post scorer that Powe is. Now if only one of them was their listed height.
Damnit.
Keep both, but BBD if you had to choose
I think he has more upside then Leon, hustles just as much as leon, better passer, defender, can shoot the ball…I know Powe is a hardcore fan favorite of alot of celtics fans, and most prefer him over Baby, but not me…I think baby has improved dramtically, and before his good stretch before getting injured I though Leon had regressed and was a big time disapointment from expectations…couldnt pass, couldnt finish, couldnt even catch the ball, and certainly couldnt shoot it, undersized, cant guard centers or PF’s…then he went on a hot stretch…then he got injured and is likely gonna lose alot of minuted to BBD in the playoffs
by TheAncientRivalry on Mar 30, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions
I love Powe.
But if we can’t keep both (which I prefer to do), then I choose Big Baby for his all around versatile game and his hustle 100% of the time he’s on the floor.
A vote for Baby
I think he’s getting better and that Leon, as much as I like him, is pretty much maxed out. The questuin is do you keep them both? I don’t see how you can and personally I would prefer the money be spent on a legitimite big man. I just can’t see how you can keep two undersized power forwards.
keep both
both are restricted so ainge can discourage other GMs. assuming neither is offered huge money in this down economy, you keep both. they’re valuable in tandem as we’ve learned this year. neither is going to make huge money so they will be tradable. you don’t let them go for nothing. you keep both.
I think we will keep both
No team is offering much this year, everyone is waiting till the summer of 2010.
It depends on the price they ask
There’s also the chance of letting them both to walk away.
All things equal, I’d rather keep Powe. But I think Powe will demand a higher salary. Who knows? It depends if there are better bigs available and what kind of skillset they have, as well. Too many variables to have an answer now.
worst case
sign and trade one and keep the other. no way one walks away for nothing.
I agree
I think Ainge will get creative (something he’s pretty good at)
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
but aside from cap space...
which i think is sort of a pipedream (ewe’re not renouncing Ray when his contract expires), i see know reason not sign both unless the $$ or years are totally nuts.
Whoever plays better in the playoffs
It’s unlikely we keep both. In yesterday’s Hoopshype an Eastern Conf. executive was quoted as saying he thought Baby would get $3-5 million a year. I had selected Carl Landry and Craig Smith as Powe comparables, and they get $2.8-3 million a year. With the Cs paying a dollar-for-dollar luxury tax, I’m just not seeing the Cs paying $10.6-16 million a year to keep two guys who are so close that this board can’t decide between them.
If, unlike last year, either Powe or Baby doesn’t disappear against Cleveland and/or LA, I’d keep that guy.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Flexibility
It may be feasible to keep both Baby and Powe due to some flexibility coming soon. Ray’s contract ends next summer, then PP’s and KG’s in successive years (too bad about that order). Of the Big 3, Ray is actually still GETTING BETTER, amazingly and unbelievably. Paul has plateaued, apparently at a high level (but showing some signs of inconsistency and fatigue, sometimes). KG appears to have entered his decline. All three should accept significantly lower level contracts when it comes time to resign, even Ray. (Since we don’t know what’s really wrong with KG, we can’t even be sure he WILL resign… it’s a mystery.) So the team can suck it up for one year with both Powe and Baby, in the expectation that salary relief is coming soon.
Keep both if possible. If not, though Powe has a more powerful post game, that’s something Baby is also good at, and Baby has now added the all-important mid-range game, which Powe absolutely does not have. That’s a big hole in Powe’s game, making Baby the clear fav.
Baby the KG "replacement", Powe the backup
I think what we’re seeing is that Baby can perform as a reasonable replacement to KG as far as offensive versatility, and that Powe is much more adept at being the stopper defensively and as an inside presence. Down the road, do we see KG playing 35-40 minutes per game? Probably closer to 20-25 after he signs a new contract.
I also think that the Big 4 will sign for less if they’re all on board for coming back to be with each other and contend, which leaves a spot for a medium-quality free-agent (in the $8-12 million range) for
Baby better in some ways
Baby is now arguably better for the team than KG in some areas:
- Baby is more aggressive.
- Baby slams on the inside, which KG does not.
- Baby hustles like the youngster he is; KG can’t do that anymore.
- Baby’s midrange shot is now looking as good as KG’s ever was. Smallish sample size so far, but looking good.
- Baby’s still learning, improving at a rapid pace. KG looks to be on his downward slope.
But,
- KG is clearly far superior on D
- KG can alleyoop
- KG brings fire and leadership and mystique. Baby’s never gonna get there.
Tight games, like we’re going to see in the playoffs, are often decided by hustle and energy. Our young guys have that. KG… has the will, but… the physical interferes.
“What is the good of the strongest heart
In a body that’s falling apart?”
what?
We’ve now reached the point of delusion where BBD is no just better than Powe, but BBD too? I’m lazy today, but I suspect points have gone up with minutes not efficiency.
Let's look at some hard facts:
There is one concrete thing that comes up everytime this debate is rehashed – a majority of this board relies on their own understanding of basketball independent of any type of statistical research.
I’m fine with arguments pertaining to “Basketball IQ” since that is, for the general populace, a relatively difficult thing to quantify. I’d argue that Davis makes plenty of mistakes with his shot selection in almost every game he’s gotten big minutes to that degree – but at least it would be an argument,
But we have people all over the map on this debate, but some of this stuff can be easily cleared up by looking at some basic splits:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/psplit.cgi?player=davisgl01&year=2009
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/powele01.html
1. Myth number one – Davis is “more consistent” vs. Powe’s “situational effectiveness.” A simple look at each players performance against each team shows that Powe out-performs or is comprable in performance to Davis vs. every team in the league. Davis doesn’t enjoy some wider ranging consistency, Powe produces superior numbers against the league as a whole and against team’s individually.
Now let’s venture into some more controversial territory – on/off court production:
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809BOS.HTM
2. Myth number 2 – Davis is more “versatile” while Powe is “one-dimensional.” Now, if this argument is about TRYING a lot of things on the court, sure, Davis is more versatile. But if you are looking for how EFFECTIVE each player is, Davis is only efficient in his 3 main areas of production: spot-shooting, P&R, and cuts – his post play and creating shots off the dribble for the finish inside are well below average. Powe’s game is equally simple – Post/P&R/Cuts – and he is far superior in terms of finishing inside.
So Davis tries more, but succeeds less – hence Doc Rivers continually cracking about Davis sticking to his role and not playing “above his head,” as he’s said at least half a dozen times during Davis’ recent breakout streak.
3. Myth number 3 – Davis is better at creating off the dribble than Powe – Davis’ % of assisted shots is FAR, FAR higher than Powe’s – Davis relies on others to set him up for his offense almost twice as much as Powe’s.
Bonus assignment: watch footage of both players dribble against a positioned defender. Powe has better control of the ball when he goes into his set-up moves. He challenges his defender far less often than Davis from the FT line extended, which is consistent with where each player attacks from on the majority of their offense.
However, if you eliminate the “blow-by” plays for Davis – the ones where his defender is trying to recover to him and Davis shot fakes and goes by – you’ll see that Davis has difficulty using his dribble to free up a quality shot. Powe on the other hand consistently uses his dribble to set up a quality shot when his defender is positioned to stop his off-the-dribble set up.
4. Myth number 4 – Davis is a superior overall defender to Powe.
This may be my biggest pet peeve in this argument because most opinions on this seem to never have progressed past Doc Rivers quote about Powe’s rotations OVER A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.
The fact is that Powe has progressed substantially as a defender and has always been a superior man defender at the PF position to Glen Davis. While defensive statistics are always controvesial, Powe’s +/- at the 4 and his individual statistics as a PF all allude to this. Powe’s positional defense on the block is text book and his perimeter defense has consistently shown to be solid since the recent extended minutes have given him a chance to display it.
Davis has struggled defensively at the 4 since being inserted into the starting lineups – far more inconsistent then previously when he was playing more situational minutes. Powe is faster latterly and has better burst speed to Davis, so it is not surprising.
Now, we can argue all day about what areas Davis will improve in and how – i’d always welcome better and more description rich posts as most just state it without any real evidence as to why – highlighting single plays doesn’t man anything, sorry – volume of plays is everything, not random highlights.
I think Davis has shown that he can be a real player in the NBA this season, specifically over the past two months. All i’ve ever asked from him is to show consistent production before I anointed him anything – he’s shown he has the makings of a quality rotation player and potentially a starter if he continues to work on the base he’s now established.
The reason I continue to favor Powe if a choice has to be made is because of the concrete facts in hand – Powe has been more productive in less minutes, he’s more efficient, he has a rate skill, (post play) that Davis does not, and he is a superior defender at his natural position.
From a speculation standpoint, i’ve watched Powe shoot hundreds of jumpers and I know the odds of developing a basic jump shot with sound fundementals is highly probable for Powe. I can’t say the same for the limitations Davis has with finishing inside against tough defense.
I believe both are still developing, but Powe is ahead in terms of effectiveness and production on the court in all the key areas – a jumper is all that’s seperating the two and if/when Powe incorporates that, he’ll be a complete offensive player. he has the first step and ball-handling ability to smoke PF’s off the bounce, so the shot fake will become a lethal weapon for him – his ability to pack it on positioned defenders is a huge plus in his favor over Davis – Davis needs a lot more momentum to get up above the defense and get a clean shot.
None of this is suppose to be a knock on Davis – he’s shown he can play and if circumstances dictate he stays and Powe goes I will continue to root for his development – but as the facts and my observations stand, I think Powe has proven to be the superior player – only the 2 extra years of age Davis has to develop before matching Powe’s 25 years give me any pause – I like Powe’s work ethic and consistent coach-ability more than Davis’ personal discipline and tendency to wander outside his role.
That’s my argument and the last i’ll ever make on this topic until a final resolution comes this off-season…
by BillfromBoston on Mar 30, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but...
- KG is clearly far superior on D
- KG can alleyoop
- KG brings fire and leadership and mystique. Baby’s never gonna get there.
I think Baby’s got the fire, just has to get focused (especially on D). It brings up the question of whether what KG has can be taught/learned. Isn’t part of the difference a matter of molding that intensity into a persona (which right for BBD is lacking)? Kind of like how Perk has established himself as a bad boy/enforcer…
Fire, yes...
…sure, BBD has the fighting spirit, and plenty of it. I think he did get that in part from KG. But the combination of that plus leadership and mystique is just not in BBD’s DNA… obviously. No, KG is one of a kind in that respect…. a great motivator and leader with over-the-top intensity and fire, all in addition to his great abilities. I doubt we will see another like him.
No
-Baby may be more aggressive than KG, but that can be to his detriment sometimes (he turns the ball over A LOT)
-While Baby may “slam” on the inside, KG is ONE HUNDRED times better than Glen in the post. KG is one of the greatest post players ever; he’s a guy who you can throw the ball to and he’ll make a play, whether its his unstoppable jumpshot (which I’ll talk about later) or a great post pass.
-Baby’s jumpshot is not as good as KG’s jumper! How easy we forget how automatic KG is when it comes to that 18 foot jumper. Baby’s shot is not automatic at all (its good, but its not a KG jumpshot, where you think every open midrange shot he gets is going in the bucket).
-If KG’s knee turns out alright, he’s still a MUCH better athlete than Big Baby, because he’s just as agile, yet he’s taller and longer.
-Once again, I cannot reiterate to you how much a weapon it is to be able to throw the ball to KG in the post. Especially in the playoffs, where the games slow down. Right now, we don’t want Big Baby to have the ball in the post at all. More often than not, a turnover or a wild shot result.
-Aren’t you the guy that said Gabe Pruitt should start over Rajon a couple months back over on RedsArmy? If you are, I think you are overreacting once again. KG is one of the greatest power forwards of all time, and I’ll take a slightly older KG over Big Baby any day for the next couple years. I honestly don’t think that Big Baby is cut out to be a starting power forward. He’s just too small. He would need to be paired will a superstar center that could take the pressure off of him. He’s playing great right now alongside Perk, but he would not be able to put up this kind of production over the course of the season. All in all, Big Baby will never be able to replace what KG could bring to the court, whether it be on offense, or defense.
Both
But if I truly had to be King Solomon, I’d go with Powe actually. Because of his weight, I think Baby will eventually break down. Powe is in phenomenal basketball shape. That said, I think the sky is the limit on Baby and I think we’ve seen the best of Powe already.
by The Real Large James 2 on Mar 30, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions
Actually...
…if Powe were to add a mid-range jumper to his arsenal, he would be come even better… much better. And that could happen, just as it happened with Baby.
Powe
I’d like to keep them both but if I have to choose I’d sign Powe. I prefer Powe’s beast under the boards game to Baby’s all around game. I like big men who are beasts.
I'm doing my ostrich imitation and burying my head in the sand.
Don’t want to think about this right now.
Agree
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Mar 30, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think both should be retained, unless a significantly taller upgrade can be had for a much lesser price. one thing we definitely lack on this team is height. no way in heck Danny will bring back Moore. so we need to aquire another 7 footer. i think that means he’ll have to sacrifice Powe or Davis in order to fill that need.
Wow, what a tough decision
I have to agree with Metro, I think one of these guys might be used as a trading chip for a big. If I had to choose I think I would go with Leon. I love BBD and he’s my wife favorite player, she think it’s hysterical when his name is announced as Big Baby when he scores a bucket. BBD seems a little bit more like a novelty though. I know that sounds funny but I just think he might get fat and out shape sooner than Leon. Leon’s knee problems do scare me though. Tough choice,
If the Cowboys could only play like a team with passion and unity like my beloved
Boston Celtics, I would be happy.
by Captain Comeback on Mar 30, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions
Depends
It depends on what Danny can do (or has to do) in the offseason while delaying his decision on these 2.
Preferably Danny lands someone who can be a legit back up Center (preferably Sheed or Mcdyess even), this would make Powe more expendable through a S&T but I wouldn’t lose sleep over keeping them both. Davis may command more salary which, with the luxury tax, may make him the one moved in a S&T.
It also depends on Veal – is he finished or will he be back next year? If he’s out, Danny needs to get a mobile back up 3/4 player. A S&T with Powe/BBD and expiring contracts (TA, Veal, Pruitt (pick up the team option for salary matching purposes) and House too for that matter) could land a solid back up wing player or better yet a Posey-type player that can cover the 2-4 positions and score too.
If it comes down to just plain keeping one or the other, BBD has shown more variety in his skillset so I would prefer to keep him of the 2.
"Veal"
Haven’t heard that one in a while. Scal will prob be back next season. But if not, all the more reason to keep both Powe and BBD. I don’t see them trading either one for anybody, unless they have to… both guys are playing great, know the system very well, and are extremely well liked. Baby in particular is a HUGE fan favorite… and this is a business, after all, selling a product to us. TA and Gabe, on the other hand, I would consider expendable… trade away. But you’re not gonna get much in return.
One guy I would love to keep is Marbury, even though that seems unlikely. I just think his potential on this team is terrific, and wouldn’t it be grand having an All-Star for a backup PG?
we like them more
I feel like, especially in the case of Powe, that Danny places more value on them for trading purposes. That being said, a back-up center would be really nice…
M&M
I figure the M&M boys will be heading out of town after this year — Marbury for more $ and a starting role somewhere and “When KG comes back you won’t see me any” Moore will be replaced by a center or C/F that can play defense and rebound.
I wouldn’t mind having Powe and BBD both on the team but I just don’t see that as very likely if Danny can that a decent backup at center. If Danny gets that player, Powe or BBD become 5th on the PF/C depth chart and either one will be an expensive luxury to have. Not that I see them getting big paychecks this offseason but typically your 5th big man will get paid less than they will.
Also, moving TA, Pruitt and Veal’s expiring deals (maybe without including House) and possibly BBD or Powe in a S&T could get really good PF/C or better yet a multi-position backup. Walker and Giddens could be the 5th and 6th wing players next year (if House is kept and they get a better wing player in my deal proposal).
Get a decent backup vet PG and this team could be a bigger powerhouse than last year’s team and we won’t care what LA and CLE’s records are since they’ll be chasing the C’s.
plugging myself
just had to plug my favorite nickname for Mikki that I put in the “nickname Mikki” thread.
Keep Both
I think Scal is done. He may get cleared to play again but he’s in Troy Aiman territory and the next concussion will take less, the next one after that, less again. (I’m no brain surgeon. I just play one on blogs.) However, he’s taking a long time to come back from this one. He gets next year’s money with an injury retirement so hopefully he loves his future as a husband/father more than his present as a Bball player and does the right thing.
With that said, we therefore need both. Leon is a worker. He’s improved his free throw shooting. He can learn to knock down the straight up 12 footer.
Of the two, I agree with most commenters – Baby’s upside is greater. I can imagine him as a starter. I see Leon as a bench guy.
Actually Leon’s free throwing has totally regressed. In his rookie year, that was one of his best attributes. But since then he’s gotten worse each year:
You should be more careful when using stats...
Powe’s season total is lower this year, but he has shot at or above his previous two season’s average in 4 out of 6 months – if not for a particularly poor Februrary – .60% – he’d be close to his rookie year figure of 74%.
So the idea he “regressed” isn’t really supported by his overall shooting by month – it is skewed by his worst shooting months – in 4 other months this year he’s shot very solid – was at a career high 77% in March before getting injured.
His two worst shooting months were November and February – a couple of blips, not a trend downward.
by BillfromBoston on Mar 31, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Scal's out for the season...
… not his career, necessarily. All the neuro boards recommend that if an athlete gets 3 concussions in a season, he must not play for the rest of that season. But he should be good to go for training camp. Of course, one never knows… there may be more going on there than we know, which would be very typical for this team. (Remember when it was just a “neck strain” for like a week even though we saw him get knocked out, and when KG was out with a “muscle strain”, and Powe was out with first a bruise then a “strain”?… whatever, they don’t like to tell the whole truth, probably for competitive reasons.)
I don’t see Danny paying either one 5 mil a year unless something happens with Ray Allen’s contract. I dunno, I think Powe gets somewhat overrated as a great low post scorer. He’s ok but not super. Doesn’t pass well out of the post. He needs to up his free throw % also. Too much 50/50 for my liking. Big Baby has a more versatile game but his weight is going to cause concern always. But now you got to wonder about Leon’s knees going forward too. No?? If I had to pick I guess I go with Leon cause we needs some post play and I don’t know if Baby is ever going to get to Leon’s level in that area. But it’s a tough call.
As an outsider and a Cavs fan who doesn’t see many Celtics games, if I were in the position of having to choose between the two I would choose Powe. I have never been impressed with Davis, whereas Powe seems like he has a bright future as a rotation power forward. He is light years more athletic than Glen Davis, moves without the ball a lot better around the basket, and I would say he has more upside.
by the way
I voted for Powe in the poll even though I still woudn’t want to have to chose
basically I have a soft spot for grinders like Powe, but Baby has come a long way… baby
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Keep BigB
Baby can guard BIG centers, Powe cannot.
Baby can force his defender to come outside, Powe cannot.
And I really like to watch Powe play.
if you had to choose
i’d go with baby. he’s bigger. he’s actually more nimble. he has a jump shot. he is a much better passer.
still i’d keep both if the price was right.
Both
KG’s contract goes down from about 24 mil to about 16 mil next year so I think they can afford to sign both. However I can’t see Ainge going above 4.25 mil that Perk will be making next year. It won’t make much sense to pay a backup big man more than your starting center. I think most teams are going to be tight with their money this offseason so I can see us signing both for about 3 mil a year hopefully.
Power of Powe
While we’ve seen flashes of great play from both (Big Baby’s performance against the Pistons last year when he had something like 16 4th quarter points, including 3 “And-1’s” was borderline ridiculous), I’d have to throw my vote in for Powe who, I think, has the higher ceiling.
Look, they’re both undersized and won’t ever command starter’s minutes on a championship team (to be that short and succeed as a PF/C, you need to be some kind of freak like Barkley or Danny Fortson – and it didn’t help him for very long). I love the energy both guys bring, and one of their most valuable features is their willingness to fit into the system as it’s laid out for them.
I think Powe’s strength, speed, athleticism, and conditioning (duh) are all superior to Baby’s, and that’s what matters over the course of 246 games (or three seasons). He rotates faster on defense, gets down the court quicker on turnovers, and boxes out more aggressively.
All that being said, I’ll be watching Big Baby wherever he ends up. Though he’s been frustrating at times, he’s won me over as a fan. Good luck to both guys in free agency.
by TakesItMakesIt on Mar 30, 2009 10:22 PM EDT reply actions
Based on statistical analysis, Powe will end up with a better contract than Big Baby in the off-season. Powe simply is more efficient and have proven to put up better numbers when on the floor than Big Baby. Most NBA teams have a stat guru to crunch their numbers. For people who don’t follow the Celtics extensively, that’s part of what they are going to look at. I agree the Celtics will probably not keep both player UNLESS they both signed for less than $3M a year or they get Scal to retire early (to get his contract off the books).
While most people are ready to put Big Baby on the rafter this week (or Leon a few weeks ago), but I think people have to realize they have to be more consistent in order to be put in the same league as KG. Also they might be succeeding because of the system, the player they play with or if they are doing great because of their own play. Playing with Jason Kidd was what got Mikki Moore the nice contract. I personally am not sold on Paul Millsap, I think he is a byproduct of Deron Williams.
By the way someone mentioned how Big Baby has a jumpshot like KG. Well Big Baby shoots in the low 40% range, are you really going to put him in the HOF? I mean seriously, how the hell does he take more shots than Paul Pierce and Ray Allen in some games.
I am all for Big Baby, but he needs to stop showing off and goes outside of himself. Nothing makes me angrier than to see him shoot fadeaways.
I would like to add one thing...
Glen Davis has actually shot BETTER than KG from 17 feet and beyond – its suprising, but true. KG had his career year on that spot shot last season, but this year he’s come back down to earth.
Davis shoots about 46% from outside 17 feet, KG is at around 43%…where KG is superior is on the pick and pop shot and the one dribble shot…
by BillfromBoston on Mar 31, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions
Hustle doesn't have a stat line...
But if it did, Big Baby (“aka, Big Beast”) would have solid numbers and that contribution is what makes him and also Leon, good for the Cetics system. I’ve noticed that they both often spark the whole team with individual hustle plays, whether they be scores or defensive plays, like charges, denial of paint position or loose balls. This is an intangible, but I say it’s at least as important as official stat lines…
Doc's new coaching tool: a hammer
If Baby stays within his role, as described so well in posts above, he could become as “efficient” as Leon is now. Leon has more maturity than Glenn, but in not-too-long-of-a-time I think that they will be equals in that area.
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