Starting Five - 4/21
by Jeff Clark on Apr 21, 2009 10:19 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintI'm still just a jumble of emotions and thoughts, so here's a few brief ones that might have been overlooked last night:
- Bulls fans are putting this one squarely on the shoulders of the head coach. Matt from Blog-a-Bull also makes this statement "It's official that the Bulls are fairly evenly matched against the Celtics." Some of you in the comments also agree (due to the injuries to KG and Powe). I still disagree. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen alone should tip the scales in our favor and if Rondo is healthy, that's still a Big Three. Toss in Perkins and Big Baby and you have a better starting rotation. I think the Bulls are playing over their heads and the C's are not playing up to their capabilities. Hopefully the team will prove me right over the next few games. (We do, however, need to see a lot more from our bench.)
- One thing I do know. I'm adding Joakim Noah to the list of players that I simply don't like seeing on the basketball court. Nobody wants to be called a "hater" but I guess you could label it that if you want. Here's Noah in a nutshell to me: Take KG and all his antics and most of his energy. Remove almost all of the talent and beat him senseless with an ugly stick. That's Noah (and that might be giving him too much credit). Also on my list: Bibby, Varejao, Sasha, and the Pistons. Kobe has a whole category of his own.
- Taking a step back, I have to admit this is an entertaining series thus far. I'm just hoping for some wins that are boring blowouts. My heart can't take much more of this.
- Speaking of which, the important news yesterday was that Ainge seems to be home and recovering well. He even visited the shootaround. Very happy to hear that.
- I simply can't say enough good things about Rajon Rondo. I really hope his performance in game one doesn't get overlooked or forgotten about just because Rose had a better one and the Bulls won. Couple it with game two and he's stepped up in a huge, huge way for us when we need him most.
Bonus link: Should Doc have used Tony Allen more?
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Assuming Powe and of course KG will get zero minutes, we need scal to play game 3
If Scal were to start we get a Perk Scal PP Ray Rondo lineup, one which was a very effective lineup this year. If Scal can go even 16 minutes and pickup the Posey jr roll where he left off, then potential foul troubles are minimized and Baby and Perk might be ok at 35 minutes and Minnie might only have to go 8. Then bench has been awful but Eddie has to given a shot to get hot and Rajon needs saome rest so steph is going to have to get 10 minutes anyway. We have to stop falling apart with Rajon out.
I agree
Having Scal ready to go would be very good. For how long has he been practicing with contact?
I wish I knew. I do know Doc said Scal might be or would be ready for game 3.
I am not trying to be Scals doc. If he is cleared, he is cleared.
Oh, I absolutely agree
I’m just trying to grasp how ready he can be to play competitive basketball, how game ready he’s at this point.
In terms of health, once he’s asymptomatic, he’s ready to go. If the docs cleared him, there’s no risk whatsoever.
Oh I am going to be worried for him, I think we are all going to cringe if he gets hit in the head.
I am worried, I just dunno if I should be
Oh, he's not game ready
But he’s better than Mikki Moore, and that’s all it takes…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Apr 21, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope Scal is ready
But, I thought I heard on the postgame show on ’eei last night that Scal was held out of the last practice. Not good. And Jeff, I am one of those guys that thinks with KG and Powe out and Rondo hobbled, Chicgao is definitely the better team. Pierce and Ray, as great as they are, can do nothing to shore up how weak our front court is right now.
Hope that is the case
I cannot believe I am saying this, but we REALLY need minutes from him now.
I know, I know. I feel the same way.
But there was no denying that he’d become effective. I am just concerned he’ll be 2007 scal instead of 2009.
Scal would be nice
but only if he’s cleared to play for real. I don’t want to take chances on him just because the team “needs” him. Play it safe.
Tony Allen on the other hand looks healthy and I’m not sure why he didn’t play. Might have been able to slow Gordon down on some possessions.
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
of course only if he is cleared to play would he play, Jeff. Goes without saying right?
And yeah why would you nopt throw Tony out on D to get on Gordon and all? I hate to say it but Salmons could be the next guy to heat up. This is a good Bulls club that was around .650 after the Sac trade
Who Would You Have Put TA In For?
You couldn’t put him in for Ray. So what are the choices in last nite’s game? It comes down to Pierce. Even though Pierce isn’t playing well he is drawing the defense to him to at least give Ray a chance to get open. If you put TA in for Pierce, TA wouldn’t get that attention and Ray could never have gone off. The Bulls are a tough match up for us, especially without KG. The bench in general hasn’t played well yet and Doc really can’t take a chance in a game like the first two have been. When the C’s are playing better (and hopefully they will) then maybe TA could get some playing time.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
I am simply talking about getting TA in for d briefly in place of PP, Ray or House for that matter.
Your points are good and I agree. But I would have tried it and and I’d pull him quickly if it wasn’t working. It didn’t have to be late in the game when Ray was going off. Ray had two points at the break I think
For Ray In The First Half
I was almost going to mention this, but by keeping Ray in in the first half they were able to see what was going on with him offensively. Thus the adjustments were made to free him up. And if Ray was 1 for 4 then, you never know when he is going to go off. I don’t think you can take a chance on TA in a game like that. It would also put him in a bad situation for his confidence. The team was playing poorly, TA wasn’t going to make them much better, and TA could have tried to do too much.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
ok, let me use tunnel vision in the same way: if anyone thinks PP and Ray should play 48 minutes, and it makes no sense to bring in your best perimeter defender, not even once, on one defensive rotation, even though you are being torched from the perimeter, than we just won’t find agreement. Fair enough?
I for one am not suggesting to give TA a bunch of minutes. All the starters are going to have to do 40 if they aren’t in foul trouble, and with Scal, House, Marbury and Minnie available in addition to Tony, thats a total of 40 minutes for 4 othyer players even without Powe
On Rondo
Doc’s comments about Rondo in the post-game press conference on Comcast were interesting. They give insight into both. Doc said Rondo came to him before the game, maybe the day before, and asked him a bunch of questions about the way he (Rondo) was playing. Doc answered each and said they were excellent questions. Then Doc thought about it and said if I (Doc) went into a game with all these thoughts in his head he wouldn’t be able to play well (something to that effect). Doc also said that he probably shouldn’t have answered the questions. What Doc did do was to later go to Rondo and tell him to just play basketball. This is your team to run. Don’t ask me any more questions. This shows the faith and trust Doc has in Rondo and it shows Doc is so flexible in his thinking. It also shows how Doc remembers what it was like as a player and is thus able to relate so well to them.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
sure he's ugly, but...
I think Noah is one of those guys that you passionately hate when he is on the other team, but would be great to have on your team.
He has so much energy. It is nice to see him get into a groove after a very unspectacular beginning to his career. I’m not sure if he’ll ever be able to shoot, though.
by papa shuttlesworth on Apr 21, 2009 10:42 AM EDT reply actions
Meh. 2 games into the playoffs he has already made 2 boneheaded plays that could have tipped the scales one way or the other in such close games.
In game 1, he came in to block an off-balance, desperate jumper by Paul Pierce with 2 seconds on the clock, and the Bulls got lucky to see an 85% FT shooter miss a free throw.
In game 2, he got a technical foul for jawing at the ref in a game that looked like it was going to be decided by 1 basked.
Ridiculous technical
I watched several replays – Javie was behind him, Noah never said anything, at least after the play.
As Tommy would say, “criminal” !
by nba is the worst on Apr 21, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh
Noah seems to me one of those guys who succeeded in college because of his height and athleticism, but because of those gifts, I’m not sure he ever really learned how to play the game. So he can be nullified by any solid, positionally sound player, who would probably foul him out pretty quickly. (I remember a game earlier in the year when Powe pretty much owned him.)
Yeah, he has lots of shortcomings, but he will be a decent player. Put it this way: which long haired unskilled energy guy would you rather have on your bench, Mikki Moore or Noah?
I absolutely hate his demeanor, but I can’t deny that he can help a team.
(Also, is it just me, or should Noah be called for a tech every time he dunks and does a chinup on the rim?)
by papa shuttlesworth on Apr 21, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Noah's not unskilled,
he’s just scrawny. He shouldn’t be a center right now, he should be a PF – but then he has no J. Hopefully the next offseason changes one of those things – Perkins was getting away with shoving Noah under the basket from good position the whole game [and I’m sure Noah would have, too, if he didn’t weigh something like half of Perkins and was unable to push him in the back].
Noah’s good. And when he’s playing well he can be everywhere. Kind of like what Rondo’s been doing so far this series.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
Anybody with 2 National Titles is ok with me
Vinny...you look confused
by Knowledge32 on Apr 21, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Much hate there
And, as we all know, hate leads to the dark side. You need to do some yoda yoga or something, buddy.
Anyway, not wanting to nitpick on those ‘grudges’ of yours, I’d still like to address your loathe towards Noah. He’s one of the few guys I saw in college bball before I saw him in the NBA and I kinda like how he’s grown. He’s no KG, but I like his spirit.
Rondo… I dunno. I’ve always ‘favoured’ him since I watched the NBA. Actually, I tried to get an interview with him to put on our basketball club’s webby (fail!) but his recent ankle injuries have scared me a lil’. He seems like a hell of a player, but also one that will be swatter down by bigs around the league every now and then.
It’s that last bit, that scares me.
Other than that, Rondo is the man. His athleticism is sublime, his stunning speed and high bball IQ make me like him the best out of all the NBA players of today.
If anyone, I’d like to see him lead us to number 18.
I’ve seen the “new comment” thing pop up 5 times since I started typing. I need to learn to type faster. (or better, so that I won’t have to backspace as much as I did :P)
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
Random Comments
1. Why are the Bull’s fans blaming their coach? I think he’s doing a great job. He’s got them playing at their best. I think we can play alot better, but alot of our poor play is due to the way the Bulls are playing.
2. Perk is getting some kudos around the Blog, but I think his performance flew under the radar last nite. Rondo, Ray and Big Beast stood out while Perk seemed to quietly do so much out there with his rebounding, scoring, blocks, altering shots, help defense, etc. He also kept his cool when Noah got that tech.
3. If you watched the post game show on Comcast I hope you all caught Mike Gorman make a mistake. He referred to Joakim Noah as Yannick, his father.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
I would take Noah on this team in a heart beat.
Then everyone else could hate him.
Second the emotion on Rondo also. My favorite player in the NBA. Love this kid, brings a bunch of everything to the table.
We need to add another big to this team next year while keeping baby. No excuses. Get it done.
Yeah, I like Noah too...
But he’s very easy to hate when he’s on the other team. Actually, I do hate him, but I love the energy and passion he plays with…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Apr 21, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Gasol
How can you leave Gasol off of your list? He’s #1 on mine.
Rondo has had two HUGE games and he was overlooked in game 1 because of Rose and in game 2 because of Ray Ray. He is controlling the floor so unbelievably well, even with his injury in the second half. In the first half when the bench came on and let the lead slip, the second Rondo came back on the floor he was basically saying “it’s ok, I’m back now, don’t worry” and he took care of business.
I’m so thrilled Ray Ray found his rhythm, now if we could just get Eddie going…
by PPierce_is_Fierce on Apr 21, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, anyone that knows anything about Bulls fans knows that they unilaterally hate their coach the same way we all hated Doc 2 years ago. He’s notorious for his mismanagement of game situations, and I KNEW that the Bulls having no timeouts left at the end of the game (again) would hurt them somehow, I just wasn’t sure how.
agree about rondo. as great as he played pushing the ball, after the injury, he steadied the offense and made smart passes. and that jump shot. chi is playing with scads of energy and playing the hot hand and have been incredibly clutch. i hope they get cold sometime. mikki still looks like a pinball when he’s out there and eddie has seemed tentative. eddie has to come thru more for our second team. criticize marbury all you want but he has been getting the ball to eddie. mikki seems scared when he touches the ball.
Agreed on Marbury
He had that one awful airball last night, but he is still making solid passes and putting other Celtics in position to take their shots. They just are not hitting those shots.
You can keep Noah
Would never want him on this team. If we had our front court intact, he would be invisible. He is a stiff.
Noah runs the floor as well as anyone
Vinny...you look confused
Noah reminds me of how Euro players play. He’s more so of an irritating energy player than a Euro player, but he’s boardering Euro play.
Euro players are much worse. I hate Euro players and think their style of play is a detriment to the league. But I loathe Sasha with every ounce of my body. He’s on an unreachable level of hate for me more so than any other athlete in professional sports – more than any Yankee or Habs player.
Ultimately, I don’t think Gordon can repeat last nights performance. That was just unreal. If he played like that consistently he’d be boardering Kobe, Wade status and I just don’t think he is. So here’s to hoping I’m right.
Euro players are much worse. I hate Euro players and think their style of play is a detriment to the league
And that would be because they actually bother to learn the fundamentals of the game and refuse to acknowledge that “dunking harder” is the same as “playing better”?
Of course their style is a detriment to the league, a couple of more Euros, and the refs might be tempted to actually call palming and travelling when they occur…
I’m floored that someone is actually defending the Euro style of play. Fundamentals? My Lord. They’ve brought flopping to a new, unfathomable level. Coupled with their crying, dirty tricks, etc. I just can’t agree with it. I’m sorry. Their softness has infiltrated and infested the NBA and isn’t leaving.
Are you really saying there was no flopping before Euros?
LOL. In Europe people say precisely the opposite, that American players brought the flopping.
For how long have you been following the NBA? Do you remember a guy named Bill Laimbeer? What about a former Bulls player and now a famous coach named Jerry Sloan? What about Dennis Rodman? And going further in the past, our own Frank Ramsey? Or Doug Collins?
As I said, they brought flopping to a new level, which indirectly means there had been a previous level of flopping already existent in the NBA. I understand flopping has been around, but not as extreme as it is now, which, I believe, is the result of the Euro play.
Yeah, right...
that’s exactly what Euro fans who dislike the NBA say about American imports: that they brought a new level of flopping to the Euro game.
In both cases, it’s merely disguised xenophobia. If flopping is at a new high in the NBA it’s because the rules favour the offensive player so much it’s impossible for a defender to sell an offensive foul without falling on the floor.
Anyway
every decade “flopping is at a new level in the NBA”. I believed that motto during the Laimbeer/Rodman years, not any more (understanding flopping for what it actually is, and not just calling floppers to every good defenders who excel drawing offensive fouls, like many fans do these days).
It’s not xenophobia because I watch a lot of European soccer. Again, where flopping hurts the sport.
But I agree that there are good defensive stops that seal the deal when you fall down. A good example of someone who’s mastered that is Powe. Some examples of people who take advantage of that are Gasol, Sasha and Varejao. Just YouTube flops and see how many Euro’s pop up.
Yeah -- Sasha the girl is a great fundamental player
Runs around taking cheap shots at everyone. Please.
juan del Cruz
A Bulls fan trolling over here at Celtic Land. Trying to bait people in here to engage in race wars and arguments and yet no one took the bait. It’s good respectful group over here for the most part.
I suspect someone got tired of you and your pointless posts over at Bulls Land? Just leave us alone please and go back from wherever you came from or wherever you are still allowed to loiter.
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Apr 21, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
No problem with opposing teams expressing their opinions on this board as long as they do so in a respectful manner. I’d like each of them to exhibit some level of education as well instead of (indirect quote) “yo yo perk ain’t nothin yo! Rondo and Pierce R such babbies yo! Our teamz gonna be the new dynasty! Celtics R 1 and done!” If I wanted to read posts or have a discussion with someone like that, I’d go to ESPN.com.
Brad Miller crying face...
makes me forget all about Noah.
Did you see that guy cry to the official when he called a jump ball with Ray. The guy was taken down by eddie house and Ray Allen, our softest 2 players
True but...
almost every photo I’ve seen of Pierce playing looks like he’s crying. He certainly can play ball and is very talented, it just looks like he’s crying half the time. And that’s the truth.
interesting but
he who concentrates on the past, has no future
Blame on the coach? sheesh bulls fans
yet, theyre going back to chicago 1-1, and competed all the way through last night and almost won. I think he deserves credit. not blame
sorry man
I would blame it on the coach.
second game where the guy runs out of timeouts with 2 seconds to play in the game. if PP had hit that free throw, this guy would have lost his job after the series is done.
and then
shooting them in the foot.
The bulls are a young team and are hungry to win and play their butts. Just so they could get to the last second and look at each other and find out that their coach didn’t manage the timeouts correctly.
If that guy does it couple more times, he is going to lose his players respect and none of them would want to play for him next season
I think ...
… that the Bulls are finally living up to the expectations the league had of them a couple of years ago. Most of them are 1st rounders or top ten draft picks, and this tells me that they ARE talented.
I believe that the Celtics have talent but are more experienced.
The Bulls are more talented top to bottom but have less experience.
Yeah, theres alot of winners on that bulls team
Lets look at it
Derrick rose – played in national championship game
Joakim Noah – Won 2 straight national championsips
Ben Gordon – National Championship
Tyrus Thomas – Played in final 4 with Glen Davis
Kirk Hinrich : Nation Championship game
yes, all that success was in college obviously, but these are guys that know how to and like to win
by PaintItBlack on Apr 21, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on
- I don’t know why people hate Joaquim. I love his energy and emotion. Seems like a great kid. He’s not the most talented guy, but he is good, and he works hard and seems to love what he’s doing. We could use a big like that right about now. (And Mikki’s hair is even longer :)
- I would be shocked if Scal played this season. Somebody here argued once that he didn’t have a 3rd concussion, that it was “post-concussion syndrome”. Let’s see – he was hit on the head, fell to the ground appearing to lose consciousness for a moment, got up dazed, and then embarked on several weeks of symptoms. His “post-concussion syndrome” started with the 3rd blow to the head. If they wanna call it that, and say that the 3rd hit was “neck strain”… then they have more guts (wild abandon is more like it) than I think they have. Fact is, every guideline says 3 concussions and you’re out for the season. How they can clear him now, medically or legally, is beyond me. It could happen, but I would be very surprised.
- Paul will show up. Rondo remains the key. Gotta have Powe back. And no more injuries…. enough’s enough already.
VDN
I don’t think anyone watching a Bulls game this year would accuse Vinny of being a genius, but I don’t think he’s a complete tool. He had the smarts to let Rose run wild in Game 1 and BG in Game 2. He also hired Del Harris and Berie Bickerstaff as asisstants. They cancel each other out.
But I get the point. No timeouts left in either game and the Bulls were a missed PP freethrow of going down 0-2. Playoff games are sometimes won or lost in the final seconds and that seems to have escaped Vinny’s grasp.
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