Benchmarked
by Jeff Clark on Apr 21, 2009 10:23 PM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintThe Celtics bench was a concern coming into the season. They developed into a strength during the year. Then injuries happened and now we have Big Baby in the starting linup and little depth behind him in the frontcourt. As noted already, the bench scored a paltry 9 points in the last game. Excuses aside, that's pretty much unexceptable.
We know that Leon Powe is now out for good. We know that Brian Scalabrine is going to play but we don't know exactly what he can give us. We know that Mikki Moore can give us a bunch of fouls ("I think I wake up with 2 or 3 fouls in the morning." - Mikki). Bottom line, I'm not expecting much out of the backup bigs.
The backcourt, however, is an area where we could see some improvement. Eddie House in particular can catch fire at any moment. I'm not sure why Tony Allen wasn't used more last game, but if Doc can find him some minutes, he might be an asset on defense. And then there's Starbury.
There are a lot of strong opinions about him but at least he's doing and saying all the right things. He's still capable of turning a game in our favor. Scott Souza reports on some positive signs.
While the news of Leon Powe’s season-ending ACL tear will dominate discussion today, a look for something more positive found Stephon Marbury shooting for better than a half hour after most of his teammates left the court.
Marbury worked up a furious sweat and hit more than 100 3-pointers (OK, not in a row) before finally calling it quits. At times during the workout, he had to pause to catch his breath and was bent over with hands on his knees.
Rivers said after Game 1 that he needs to play Marbury more and said today that Marbury has been the team’s best defender on Ben Gordon in the series.
Add in Rajon Rondo’s right ankle sprain and there could be a lot more Marbury on the horizon.
Scott concludes with this:
For all the negative that we heard about Marbury - and there was a lot to hear for anyone willing to listen - he has been nothing like as described during his two months in Boston.
He has been complimentary of teammates, polite to the media, and seems to have maintained a great enthusiasm about being in Boston even though his play has probably not been as strong as he’d hoped.
Score one for the merits of fresh starts.
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Steph has been our best D on Gordon?
STEPH??
I think that’s all I need to say about our D on Gordon.
Look, I like Starbury’s attitude so far. He’s saying the right things. Bromancing Eddie. Having laughs with guys on the bench. But he needs to get his head into the playoffs. I know it’s been a while for him, but if he can at least run the offense without turning the ball over, we have a problem.
My Immediate Thoughts Exactly...
I like what Doc is doing there. He’s getting behind Steph. But let’s face it, that’s what Doc does. When you have a winning team, that’s what you do! Let’s face it, Marbury is just not executing.
In 20 minutes of playoff action, Marbury has more combined fouls and turnovers (7) than he does points and assists (5). He’s also shooting 1-6 (16.7%) the field.
4 fouls in 20 minutes Doc? Yea he sure is playing the best defense on Gordon, it’s called fouling. I would much rather see Tony Allen and Bill Walker playing over Stephan Marbury right now. I feel similar to the way I felt about Sam Cassell at the start of last year’s playoffs when I think about Steph now; not very good.
This needs to be the bench for the Celts moving forward:
Scal (if he’s healthy enough to go)
TA
House
Walker
You have no center backup so either Perk or Baby has to be in the game at all times. This is doable if they stay out of foul trouble. If either one of them gets in foul trouble Mikki Moore would have to play. Otherwise Pierce can definitely play some 4. We cannot win a championship with the team constructed as is. It’s obvious watching this series. Now that Powe is done, unless KG comes back, Doc has to shake things up a bit. We need to get the ball to Rondo and just run, run, run.
SCOTT
by Vegas Scott on Apr 22, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
On Marbury
Remember the problems Ray had last year. He came off ankle surgery and had missed much of the previous year. Last year he admitted his ankles were bothering him. He also didn’t have his legs. In addition he had to play a totally different game from what he had done previously. It took into the Detroit series for Ray and the team to figure out the best way that he could be used. Marbury is basically in the same situation. But he has only been here a short time. Thus, he may not be over his injury, he sure doesn’t have his legs and he hasn’t had enough time for he and the team to figure out how to use him best. He also doesn’t know the plays. So what he’s been doing is passing great and defending much better than any of us expected of him. I don’t think we can expect to get the scoring from him this year. TA is obviously the better defender, but Marbury can involve other players better than TA. TA and Marbury may be a good combo, but it is too late to play around with this now. Doc just needs to make the best decisions he can with the choices he has, which really aren’t alot any more.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Got to get your arms around the fact that Steph is a shell of his former self.
However, I have no issues with his energy, and he’s been better defensively than I expected. He’s a decent matchup on Gordon – although I’m willing to grit my teeth on the offensive end and roll Tony Allen out there in brief stretches – so I agree that we’ve got to get more out of him.
Attitude?
What good is a good attitude if his play is Atrocious! Doc is in denial as usual, and spewing more garbage by saying Marbury is playing good D. Rivers is obviously blind cause Marbury is probably the worse defender in the league!
Uh, no.
If you’re looking for the worst defender in the league, roll uniform number 8 in green back one digit.
Well played, Coach
Good for a late-night laugh while I’m catching up on the what i missed today.
-sw
The best of the 2008-09 Boston Celtics is still yet to come. Believe.
by Steve Weinman on Apr 22, 2009 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions
well..
…i see your clouded vision here marbury isn’t even the worst pg defender in the league. kidd and nash beat him all day to that title just to pick from starters.
by ChainSmokingLikeDino on Apr 22, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Not playing Tony Allen after he played well in game 1, was a mistake! BOttom line! Marbury is not helping this team by being out on the court! Eddie and Allen should be the only subs coming off the bench for the guard/swing spot
Disagree
Eddie needs to be at the two to help the team. Thus he needs to play with Marbury or Rondo. TA is a crap shoot at this point. Also, the Celtics as a team aren’t playing well which makes it harder for bench players to contribute. I think Chicago is playing great defense and throwing all our stuff out of kilter. As the series goes on the C’s will figure things out and then everyone available should be able to contribute better. The Coaches have alot of work to do.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
honestly
I don’t care if you’re a great character guy… I mean, that’s what we have Scal for, right?
If the best thing we can say about Marbury is that he’s been a model citizen and not a distraction, then that doesn’t bode well for us. He needs to play better.
The thing is that he isn’t going to be much better. He is what he is! Trading for him was a pointless move!
especially because
we never traded for him
by guy incognito on Apr 21, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously...
…don’t come into a thread complaining, making ridiculous statements and not even have simple facts correct. ugh.
by ChainSmokingLikeDino on Apr 22, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Clark
Is this guy Rivers’ lover? Defending the marbury move?? the guy is always on the right page to start then he loses all respect by always defending Rivers in every article.
Yeah, who is this Jeff Clark character anyhow????
by cool breeze on Apr 22, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Worse, he acts like he owns the place.
+1 rec.
by The Walker Wiggle on Apr 22, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
brilliant, WW
-sw
The best of the 2008-09 Boston Celtics is still yet to come. Believe.
by Steve Weinman on Apr 22, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions
you must be new here
More than half of the recap, news update posted on this blog are posted by this Jeff Clark character.
And to Adrigo16, grey paragraph is quote. So it’s somebody else defending Rivers and I don’t know how this will lose all respect.
You're going to want to go ahead and ease off that pedal, mate
Forgetting the fact that I don’t agree with what you say, Jeff will be the first to tell you that he encourages discussion and different perspectives and understands that not everyone will agree with him.
None of that, however, merits the way you phrased your commentary.
-sw
The best of the 2008-09 Boston Celtics is still yet to come. Believe.
by Steve Weinman on Apr 22, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions
another da mishap: moore instead of mutumbo
incredible mistake. mt m now playing serious minutes and big d and minnie a waste on d and the boards. how handy would 16 mns from deke be on thursday???
Tough Crowd...
Listen,
Aside form his shooting inconsistencies, Marbury was playmaking at a pretty high level of consistency coming into the playoffs.
I think its a bit premature to assume the bench is going to continue their current level of play considering how potent they were coming into the series.
With Powe now gone, it looks like Pierce will get some run at the 4, which will put TA back in the picture – Walker probably isn’t ready, so this is a likely move unless Scal materializes out of thin air and is actually productive again.
Marbury/House/TA were playing pretty solid bball down the stretch and there is definitely something to be said about getting a decent amount of run in order to get your game going.
Bottom line: Doc can’t play the starting 5 42 mpg and expect their legs to keep bouncing back – Marbury/House/TA now round out the 8 man rotation – if they get 15-20 SMARTLY worked in with the starters and get a few 6-8 minute stints instead of 3-4 minutes with mass substitution, they should regain their form.
The team was behind the 8 ball coming into this deal and just got kicked in the nuts with Powe’s ACL on top of KG’s injury, so you gotta play with what you got….
…give ‘em a little more run and they’ll get back into a groove – this is a completely perimeter oriented team now, running and gunning is what they got…
by BillfromBoston on Apr 21, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions
If Marbury Really is the Celtics' Best Defender vs Ben Gordon...
Then we’re doomed.
Like it or not, this is the bench the team is going to wars with the rest of the way. With the right combinations and in the right circumstances, this bench can still be effective and productive. Hopefully that will happen in Game 3.
As Game 4 is yet another Sunday afternoon game for the Celtis, they had better take good care of business in Game 3, so that at worst the series will be tied coiming back to Boston. They need the bench to have a good showing.
by This is NOT NOT our year on Apr 21, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions
This next game...
This next game is the gut check. Let’s see if we have anything left in the tank.
If it weren`t for bad luck...
The Celts would have no luck at all!
Lets just start working on the draft.
We will lose to the Bulls in Six
Why so down?
-sw
The best of the 2008-09 Boston Celtics is still yet to come. Believe.
by Steve Weinman on Apr 22, 2009 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions
What a negative bunch…
Like BFB said Marbury was playing well at the end of the season. A Marbury-House combo at 1-2 was working great. Sure Stephan has been shooting horribly but as a playmaker he has been solid.
Is he the best defender for Gordon? Of course not but you have to agree that he has been a pleasant surprise on the defensive side. Besides Doc has to build up his own players…
Our best bet for stopping BG is TA and he will get some minutes now with PP moving to PF for some stretches due to our lack of bigs…
I Guess I'm On a Different Planet
Because Marbury hasn’t played well all season. He had one game that I would call marginally acceptable. The rest was embarrassing, and he continues to be an albatross around the neck of this team.
House had several games where he couldn’t miss. That’s the way Eddie is. It has nothing to do with Marbury.
our problems are not at guard even tho the chiguys guards are lighting us up. we don’t have enough bigs and pinball mikki has been an erratic solution at best. marbury is not the disaster brick makes him out to be, and he is no savior either. he has not hurt us badly because doc has been judicious with his minutes and he has put in the good team effort. he has been able to get eddie the ball. eddie has had a down 2 games and is due. our biggest concern is the refs because our bigs have to stay away from foul trouble. our bigs would be helped greatly if our guards stay in front of their men and don’t allow too much penetration.
TA
Doc NEEDS to plat Tony more!! The Bulls have too many scorers/shooters.
Why so down?....You`ve got to be kidding!!
You can still love the Celtics WITHOUT being blind to reality.
The Celts have been decimated by injuries…at the worst posible time…and none of their rivals have experienced anything remotely similar!
Injuries have turned the Celtics from being the best team in the NBA to no better than the 12th—18th best team.
House as PG
For those who are saying House should be the backup PG and to bench Marbury, remember how House couldn’t get the ball across half court against Lindsey Hunter in those Detroit games.
I seem to recall us making our run against the Cavs when Nurse decided to finally bench Cassell and put Eddie back in the rotation as Rondo’s backup! Ya’ll seem to forget these things!
Lindsey Hunter
was not on the Cavs. He was on the Pistons and now he is on the Bulls.
TA
tony allen got doubled teamed immediatlety when he touched the ball in game one. he hasnt played enough minutes recently to be able to quickly read the double team and make a wise decision. he is a reaction player and is prone to making a lot of mistakes. Chicago did a good job jumping all over him every chance they had and doc did an even better job recognizing this. im a big tony allen fan and he can give you some good minutes off the bench, but in this series marbury seems like a better option.
by MichaelJCraven on Apr 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, they doubled-teamed him in Game 1
And he passed the ball cross court to a wide-open Eddie House, who promptly bricked it.
Listen, there’s no excuse to not play TA, especially now with Powe out. TA’s a great defensive matchup against Rose, Gordon, Hinrich, and Salmons, and I’d remind you that we’re having huge problems staying with Chicago on the perimeter. He’s also a good matchup on offense as well—he could easily post up Rose, Gordon, or Hinrich, and possibly replace some of the low post offense we lost with Powe’s injury.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Apr 22, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
no double on starrrrbury
stephons dribble penetration and decision making is bettter than TA’s…he found eddie house with a simple pass just as easily as TA threw a wild cross court pass to him…but im not going to argue about these two. the fact is that we need to rely a little more on mikki moore and now scal. pierce is doing a very good job on salmons who is a gifted offensive scorer and ray is playing well too, his job was to heat up and then stay hot against Ben gorgon….no way am i taking one of those two out to play TA…but thats not the issue. mikkie moore needs to step up…he doesnt have to do anything spectacular like baby or powe have been doing, he just needs to stop making stupid mistakes and keeeeeeeeeepppp ittt simple. id rather have brad miller take his 16 footer with a hand closing out in his face than have drose drive and get the bucket with a late rotating big man giving him a weak foul.
by MichaelJCraven on Apr 22, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
We're Reacting To The Moment
Alot of stuff is being said based on two games. The Bulls are playing alot better that we fans expected. I don’t think the C’s were taking them lightly, but I think they are playing a different Bulls team than they had earlier in the year. Alot of the above comments need to be put into perspective and might be better said, if still appropriate, when this series is over. And let’s not underestimate the loss of KG in the playoffs. Even though we won games without him in the regular season, the playoffs are totally different. When we look at what’s happened in the last 2 games we really need to thing about how KG’s absence is playing into this. Passing, defense, picks, smarts, intensity, the need he creates to be defended, etc.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
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