Powe's Future Up In The Air
by Jeff Clark on Apr 22, 2009 11:34 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintSee update at bottom of post for more bad news.
This whole thing just makes me sad but I've still got a lot of hope for the guy to land on his feet (pun semi-intentional). Bulpett reports:
Leon Powe is out for the postseason and will undergo a second reconstructive surgery on his left knee. The procedure will give that joint a 2-1 lead on Powe's right knee, and it will give him some brutally hard rehab work the next 6-8 months - and beyond.
If you don't have a calendar handy, 6 months is October and 8 is obviously December. So in theory he could be good to go for next season but it is more likely it is going to be sometime closer to the 2nd half of the season or later.
Of course that has a big impact on his free agent status. His agent is trying to spin it in a positive light.
“I’m optimistic,” Aaron Goodwin said. “I had a similar situation with Willie Green. He was in his free agent year when he hurt his knee, and the Sixers stepped up and tendered him. Then when he proved he was all right, they signed him. We’re hoping the Celtics will do the same thing. The Celtics have always done what’s in the best interest of Leon Powe, and I think he’s rewarded their loyalty.”
Powe will be a restricted free agent after the season, and to maintain their right of first refusal the Celts will have to tender him a one-year offer of $1,030,189 (the minimum for a player of his experience plus $175,000). Considering the club was willing to give Patrick O’Bryant $1.5 million last summer, the C’s might consider a repaired Powe a better bet. But that decision obviously won’t be made before surgeons get inside the knee.
Get well Leon. Hope to see you back in green.
Update: Steve Bulpett posted a correction to his story: Tommy Point to him for fixing it.
Today’s column on Leon Powe under this byline contained a factual error. It was implied that Powe has had reconstructive surgery on his right knee, and this is incorrect.
He has had two major knee surgeries, and both have been on his left knee. This will be his third procedure on the same knee.
I apologize for the error.
Again, I have to plead ignorance on rehab issues, but 3 surgeries on the same knee? That can't be good.
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If they can re-sign Leon for $1 million...
… it would be a no brainer. Even injured, he’s going to contribute more than the average minimum salary player.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Yeah, the tender is a no-brainer indeed. But you worry about his future. The knee doesn’t tolerate repeated ligament tears very well.
gotta give him one year
but after that, I think it is reasonable to put team options on the following years
there’s little chance that he’ll get multiple guaranteed years out of anyone else – and if he does, more power to him – the Celtics could still match if they wanted to and they could pass if the price is too high
of course this means signing Big Baby is a priority now
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
It most certainly is, Jeff. His risk factors on the injured knee, and the other, are through the roof now and it’s going to be difficult for him to regain the lateral quickness and mobility he had.
You give him a year and a shot, along with team options so you have alternatives if he’s unable to perform.
According to the Mayo Clinic...
The surgery recovery prognosis is independent of previous injuries – damage to the cartiliage increases the risk of arthritis, but in terms of recovering strength in the knee, that is determined by the quality of the procedure, not the past history of the knee:
“"The grafted ligament eventually becomes as strong as or even stronger than the original ACL. Graft failure, at worst, is less than 5 percent."
From everything i’ve read, the notion that previous ACL injuries somehow increase the liklihood of a future injury is not substantiated.
Powe should recover fully in time – the worst part of this situation is that he won’t get the contract he deserved and that he’ll miss out on an off-season to continue to improve his skill-set….he’s young though, and he’ll be back…
by BillfromBoston on Apr 22, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree that even injured (and undersized) that he would contribute more than the average minimum salary player. Think and injured Powe would be better than Birdman or McDyess for next season? I don’t.
That being said, I’m pulling for a quick and full recovery for The Show.
Those aren't your typical minimum salary players...
First, I said “average”; I’m not sure that the two players you picked are the average in terms of minimum-salaried guys. Second, there’s no way Andersen signs for the minimum next year, and it’s doubtful that McDyess does, either. There were extenuating circumstances with both: Andersen was coming off a serious drug suspension, and McDyess was bought out.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Mikki Moore has more to worry about...
…than Powe – Boston is highly likely to add a veteran big, but there is a roster spot for both – Powe only loses his spot if the team looks to add something else, he costs too much, or they don’t like the outcome of the surgery…
by BillfromBoston on Apr 22, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
I hope Danny keeps Moore around for a while. Mikki is a nut and **** ‘s up all the time, but he’s more worthwhile then blobabrine by a long shot. I’m very curious to see what happens to Stephon Marbury….. he stays in Boston, or be becomes Starbury and looks for a big contract?
by Scalablob990 on Apr 22, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, it's a no brainer.
It would be great to re-sign Powe for $1 million. It would be really sad if he left Boston so I hope he’ll recover well and quickly and play again with the Celtics.
sign him
this is one case where even if Leon never plays another game for us or anyone else , we should sign him as a reward for his hard work and who he is as a person. Leon in all likelihood will not have a long NBA career but he did help us win a championship last year and honestly I think the celts owe him for this year as well since they rushed him back from his first injury. I have little doubt that but for the first injury and the brace he was wearing etc that this latest injury wouldn’t have happened.
A better deal would be to offer him
a minimum salary deal, partially guaranteed, with a team option for the following season. We would be able to cut him by January if he doesn’t look good and save the money; if he recovers, we can keep him at a bargain price for at least 2 seasons. I think his injury record can force him to accept an offer like this.
Why would Powe agree to that, though?
You don’t think some other team would offer him more than, at the very least, a fully guaranteed minimum deal? The guy is too productive to just give up on him. Powe’s agent would have to be insane to agree to the deal you laid out, unless it’s literally the only deal on the table. I don’t see that happening.
He’s willing to play for the free agent tender. Since similar (but healthier) players are pulling in $3 – $4 million or more per season (Turiaf, Maxiell), I think Powe for $1 million is a bargain.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Are you so sure a team would offer him a significantly better deal than this one?
While he’s still trying to rehab from a potentially career-ending injury? For a player who won’t be ready to play before 2010 and even then who knows how close to his former level he still is? It’s not like it’s his first serious knee injury. I don’t see the point of comparing him to players like Maxiell any more. Plus, Powe should prefer to keep playing for the Celtics, as it’d allow him to end his rehab without changing teams, therefore physiotherapy teams, trainers, facilities, etc.
Yes, I'm fairly certain...
If a team gives Powe a guaranteed minimum deal, they’re on the hook for something like $800k. I’m sure that at least one team will offer him that. It would be a huge slap in the face to offer him a less than fully guaranteed deal.
I think TrueGreen has it right below. We committed $2.5 million per year to TA, despite a history of injuries. Giving Powe 40% of that seems like a smart investment.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
But Allen has played the entire last season
how is that comparable?
And when we resigned TA after his torn ACL, that was his first injury in his left knee.
Anwyay, there’s simply no point on offering Powe more than he can get from other teams – I don’t see the relevance of what we’re paying to other players. A min. salary deal with a team option should be enough and would allow us to take advantage of his situation in case he fully recovers. But the better thing is to wait and see how the surgery goes and how is he recovering.
The market will determine the offer, of course...
…the team isn’t going to bid against itself, so their is a strong chance the team puts an option year out there to see if Goodwin bites…
However, the TA thing is relevant in this case because the team excercised their 4th year option on TA the off-season after he injured himself.
He was re-signed a year after recovering, but the team had him on a club option 4th year of his rookie deal and made the commitment to him – so their is precedent within the team.
Considering how much Doc and Danny place value on character and hard work – i’m fairly certain Powe will be taken care of…
by BillfromBoston on Apr 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I continue to hear these arm-chair QB diagnoses...
..about Powe’s injury status – this is just like the KG mania that’s been going on here…
ACL injuries haven’t been a “career killer” since the early 90’s – this is an extremely common injury to return from – especially for younger athletes.
I think all the fear and speculation is coming from the notion that since he’s hurt it in the past that its going to drastically reduce his chances of coming back again – that is not the case.
As long as the surgery is good and Powe is diligent in his rehab the recovery from the injury allows for a 100% return to form – it’ll take months, but with hard-work, the knee is likely to be back to where it was before.
You can look throughout the NBA and NFL and there are dozens of players who have had knee operations – the rate of failure to recover is virtually non-existent in the last decade…this just isn’t an injury that carries the death sentence the way it was before.
That is one of the principle reasons Ainge goes after guys with knee histories – the common wisdom puts a stigma on them, but the actual medical prognosis is typically very positive – so Ainge gets deals/steals like Powe and Bill Walker because of the fear and lack of trust in modern medicine.
Powe will get a full year guarenteed – he’s a 25 year old low post forward who was one of the most statistically efficient players at his position – in ANY denomination of minutes he received he stepped up and produced – those guys don’t get tossed in the trash after an injury with a 95% recovery rate…
by BillfromBoston on Apr 22, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said, Bill
I ain’t no doctor, but I know Leon Powe will put in the work necessary to fully rehab his knee injury. I also know he was the mental strength to come back and play hard once the knee fully recovers, and it’s often the mental obstacles that are the hardest to overcome. He’s done it before, he’ll do it again. And this time, he’s coming back stronger.
I also fully expect the Cs to extend him the QO in the offseason. Doc and Danny love him, he’s a high character and great work ethic guy, and he’ll be a bargain at 1 million a year.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Apr 22, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Quite a nerve you have
to be talking about arm-chair QB diagnoses. Do you really want to recap all you’ve said about the KG injury? From the PCL tear, to not knowing the difference between a sprain and a strain, to keep believing in the club fairy-tale about a knee strain when it was evident something else was going on, etc. etc.?
After all those episodes, I’ve a hard time believing you are minimally qualified to talk about those issues. Anyway, you managed to write 5 paragraphs, accuse me of making “arm-chair QB diagnoses” and then proceed to make a giant strawman argument.
What do you understand by “as long as the surgery is good”? What the heck does that mean? Do you even know how much meniscal cartilage tissue is damaged? No? So don’t put yourself out of depth.
Why would you (and the Celtics) want to take advantage of Powe like this?
When you’re talking about a 70 million dollar Celtic’s payroll and you suggest giving Powe something less than a minimum guaranteed contract and then cutting him if his rehab doesn’t work out? I understand the need for fiscal responsibility but this kind of nickel and diming of a player who has given 100% loyalty to the Celtics and who has been underpaid for the last year and a half, deserves better than what you suggest. If this is what the Celtics offer, then I hope Powe recovers 100% and comes back to destroy the Celtics each and every time he plays against them.
Huh?
Why would I want to do otherwise? I’m a Celtics fan, not a Powe fan; of course I want the best deal possible for the C’s. Of course the situation is unfortunate, but it’s a business, not a charity. Powe did his job and is a pro; the Celtics gave him the opportunity to play in the NBA and paid his salaries on time.
I’m absolutely certain that if this injury hadn’t happened, Powe would leave the Celtics if he got a bigger offer from another club. In fact, I could see him leaving for a smaller offer but a better chance of grabbing a starting spot. And you wouldn’t hear the slightest criticism of this hypothetical decision from me – it’d be the right thing for him to do. Just like if Ainge can find a way of keeping Powe for a bargain price, he can’t be sentimental.
Got some strong points
Leon Powe is a hard worker and his loyalty is what C’s expect of their players. Still we don’t give hand outs to any player, it’s like we feel bad for him because we brought him back too early. It was his decision as much as the team to come back. If he felt like he wasn’t ready then he would take more time out then was given.
After the surgery is done and we have a better diagnosis of what’s wrong with his knee. It should be clear how much the team should offer him instead of making assumptions of what they will offer him. It’s their decision and I trust they will do what’s best for him as long they are keeping him happy. I’m sure he will be back in green and they will give him a good contract which other teams will not.
Cordobes
I know it’s a business and if the Celtics were to dump Powe like another piece of meat, like you suggest they should, then I don’t agree with that end of the “business”. It’s not like signing Powe to a one year guaranteed contract at 1MM is going to break the Celtics and the goodwill gesture would go a long ways for all parties concerned in my book. I don’t think it’s a handout as illest suggests but perhaps a bonus for doing his job well the past year and a half and an incentive to do the rehab in order to come back 100% for the Celtics next year. If and when Powe comes up for another contract , I have to think the Celtics will be on top of Powe’s list of teams to resign with.
Dump like another piece of meat? When have I suggested such a thing?
Don’t be over-emotional and over-dramatic. All I’m saying is that the Celtics shouldn’t offer Powe a bigger contract than needed. And I don’t agree with the reward theory: if Powe signs a new contract and then doesn’t produce, will he return the money he’s paid to the Celtics? I don’t think he will; and he shouldn’t. And what a better incentive to rehab than a partially-guaranteed contract? I keep my stance: re-assess the situation after the surgery and the first rehab reports; but to add a team option and to protect the contract for “lack of skill” looks like good, feasible business.
Again, if this injury didn’t happen, Powe would do no favours to the Celtics negotiating a new contract this season; he’d try to get as money as possible and would leave Boston in a hearbeat for a better contract. And rightly so.
The inference was there, cordobes.
Look, we’re not talking about a multi-million dollar, multi year contract here. Things may have been different if Powe didn’t get hurt but the point is, he did. Although you may have not have mentioned “dumping Powe like another piece of meat”, your suggestion sure infers as much. Yeah, I know, teams do it all the time. Is it right? No it’s not. You say if Powe had signed a huge contract and didn’t perform or got hurt, would he give back the money? Of course he wouldn’t but NBA teams can handle these losses better than players like Powe, who might never earn another dollar in the NBA again. I’m not saying the Celtics should break the bank in signing Powe to a contract for next year but the minimum guaranteed for a year would be a nice gesture, that’s all.
The NBA is, in fact, a business and the Celtics will make a business decision – such as the one broadly applauded on this board with James Posey.
The calls for loyalty, while admirable, are unrealistic. Based on my experience with these injuries, it’s going to be VERY tough for Powe to reclaim his old level of play.
The club shouldn’t bid against itself, that is all. I don’t even know what will be the proper offer, it’ll depend on the perception GMs around the league have of his condition.
Are you Powe’s agent or something? He’s just a player; if he’s given the chance, he’ll leave us for another club if it means he’s getting a few thousand dollars more per year.
Cordobes...why are you a Celtics fan? Why are you a sports fan?
If teams are made up of a bunch of robots, then I can understand your point of view about Powe leaving the Celtics if another team offered him a few thousand more and you not really caring one way or another i.e. Powe can easily be replaced.
I follow Powe because he played for Cal. That’s my loyalty to Powe. And I developed an interest in the Celtics because of Powe being a Celtic. We all develop our favorites and Powe happens to be one of mine. I’m sure you feel the same about some of the other Celtic players too or you wouldn’t be a Celtics fan.
I would be very disappointed in the Celtics if they try to nickel and dime Powe for a few hundred thousand because they have all the leverage in this situation. If Powe hadn’t gotten hurt this year, he might have taken more money to play for some other team. But we will never really know what Powe would have done. All I know is Powe is hurt, maybe his career is over and the classy thing for the Celtics to do is to tender him a minimum guaranteed contract for one year in the hopes Powe can recover 100%. It’s not going to kill the Celtics to do this. I would feel the same for any other player in similar situation to be treated the same because contrary to how you may perceive professional players to be machine-like in their athletic abilities, perhaps to be discarded like piece of equipment when broken, they are actually human.
They Resigned TA
They resigned TA when he wasn’t completely healthy. I think the C’s will do right by Leon. Also, knee surgery is pretty successful now for athletes. This is not a question about business, it’s about loyalty. Leon has done right for the C’s and I’m sure the C’s will do right for him.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Once again...
Bad things happening to good people.
I`m afraid we`ve seen the last of Leon.
I disagree with your last statement
How do you know they will judge him by his injury before they do the surgery?
Hope to see his inside game mastery again soon
What a talent. What determination. He is on the brink. I had been imagining him to be a big part of our team going forward. What a shame this happened to him again. Though he seems to be prone to this kind of injury, so far he has showed himself prone to recovering from it as well. Best of luck Leon, you are an inspiration.
Further clarification...
The only reason he had two prior surgeries is because he rushed back from his first injury during his junior year in order to get back for his senior year – the original surgery held out until midway through his freshmen season, but then had to be corrected with a more significant surgery because of the botched rehab the first time.
So, Leon didn’t get two surgeries independant of one another – he forced his rehab and suffered complications after playing on it for 2 seasons.
After the 2nd one, he went 4 years without incident – this latest injury appears to be fairly minor as he was able to continue to play on it and the team didn’t even know it was torn until later – compare that with TA, who collapsed on the floor – This is probably a pretty clean tear or partial tear – rememember not every ACL injury is identical.
The only thing i’m pissed about is that Leon was likely to start incorporating HIS jump shot into his game this season while focussing in on it this off-season. I’ve heard on this board far too many times people state he has not J, while having seen it 100’s of times in person.
Being in rehab for 6-8 months is going to curtail his skill work, so its a year delay in development more than anything.
by BillfromBoston on Apr 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Appreciated Bill
I appreciate your intelligent well thought out and researched posts on this subject – thanks
Is it Soup Yet?
You are wrong about ACL tears
The fact that Powe kept playing with an ACL while Tony Allen collapsed with pain doesn’t mean at all that Powe’s tear is partial or less serious. It’s rather common for ACL tears to be relatively painless; much of the pain comes from other ligamentous or meniscal problems.
I find your behaviour on these injury related issues rather disturbing. You constantly pretend to have medical knowledge when you’re frequently misinformed.
If anyone can come back from this, Leon can.
by Brickowski on Apr 22, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ok, hindsight, but I’m now uncomfortable with the quickness of Powe’s return. Considered alongside the ongoing Garnett debacle and Scalabrine’s quick return (?) and I’m not inspired with confidence.
Past time for some outside hires?
Anyway, here’s to Powe’s recovery. He puts truth to that hoary cliche, “heart of a champion.” And it makes me sick that his livelihood is at stake.
by The Walker Wiggle on Apr 22, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
nononono!!
Leon pleaaaaaaaaase get better and Celtics pleaaaaaaaase re-sign him. He deserves all of our confidence because he is as tough as they get. We love Powe!
by wardamnceltics on Apr 22, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions
This is rare
I actually feel better about Leon’s situation after reading these posts. I felt like I was going to hurl when I got the news. This is beyond the Cs and basketball, we’re talking about this guy’s life.
I think with a pro medical staff, he’ll come back stronger that during his collegiate years. He should be rewarded for his tenure and work here. And luckily, his game isn’t dependent on lateral quickness like TA.
Sign the young man! Hopefully Scal has been bustin his but and is at minimum flabbiness.
Nobody should look at the past, only the future will consider if he stays or not. Honestly, the C’s will look into this as much they can before making a offer. If they do no re-sign him after this season, I wish the best of luck to him with any other team. He will work hard and be a great player like he was with our team.
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