OK, please don’t hate me, I am a diehard Celtics fan. But impartially, I think it was a flagrant 1. Although I should say that I did not think it was intentional or a dirty play.

Anyways, the best part about this is that the Bulls will look for payback in game 6. Not payback for the loss, but payback against Rondo. The Bulls are too young to just let this go and move on. I would be surprised to hear them say they are moving on. Every call against the Bulls is gonna be met with emotional complaints, the fans will add fuel to that fire. With everyone in Chicago focus on drawing blood from Rondo, this will allow the Celtics to focus on winning.

About Rondo not being aggressive. That guy is many things but timid is not one of them. And the refs will be very sensitive to any excessive contact tomorrow.

Guys like Rudy LaRusso and Ricky Mahorn are undoubtedly rolling their eyes at what a pansy league the NBA has become. And the biggest pasies of all are the journalists who cover the league.

Rondo’s foul was a normal foul. Miller played it for everything it was worth, and it served him right to miss the free throw. If he tried to mug me on a pick, the way he did Ray Allen, he would learn what a hard foul really was.

It was a flagrant foul and had Scal been hit by Rose like that I think we all would have yelled FLAGRANT FOUL. Anyway, this is starting to feel like the time when McHale clotheslined Rambis. The next game was tense to say the least. Prediction? It goes to 7 games and it’s anyone’s series. This is one of the most amazing playoff series I have ever seen. The Bulls match up really well with the Cs and the refs are letting the Bulls guards mall Allen.

You, David Stern, Doc Rivers and Tim Legler?

By definition of the rule that was a foul.

Rondo tried to swipe Miller’s arm hard enough to make sure the shot wouldn’t go in…he missed and smacked him in the mouth…ouch…hard foul…Miller is a good guy and a pro…he’ll look at the replay and back off on his comments(a bit) …although I don’t think he will be giving Rondo hugs anytime in the near future…

the best part is that bulls fans are not even that mad at rondo or doc, who admitted their intentions.

bulls fans are mad at league inconsistency (not going to change)

bulls fans are mad at celtics fans inability to see their perspective (not going to change)

Dude you could make that case if miller had the ball near his body, but he had almost a full arm extension between him and the ball. Either Rondo needs glasses or that was a flagrant play and I’m really getting the feeling that it was the latter.

Let’s forget about this silliness with flagrant fouls and all of that. It’s just the media trying to stir up the fans. In the playoffs, the intensity ratchets up. It’s more of a half court game (unfortunately) and each possession is important. Fouls happen. Live with it.

But this kid Noah has really impressed me. I saw him at Florida, of course, but I wondered whether he would get it in the NBA. Well, he’s playing great basketball, and he’s starting to remind me of Anderson Varejao. He hustles, and he’s been just as important as Rose or Gordon in making this a hotly contested series. If he ever develops a jump shot, he will be an all star.

I wish the Celtics had him.

At some point in his swing at Miller’s face, Rajon closed his fist. There is no intent to hit the ball at all. Rajon even admitted it afterward.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0429/nba_a_miller_576.jpg

This play is at least a Flagrant One. The only reason it shouldn’t be a Flagrant Two and ejection is because the time and importance of the game should be taken into account. Because the referees didn’t enforce the rules during the game, because of the emotion in the aftermath of this flagrant foul and the result of the game, and because the league failed to properly administer justice the day after, I believe that if the Celtics get an insurmountable lead at some point in Game 6, the Bulls themselves may take “the law” into their own hands. If I were Doc, I’d make sure to get his more indispensable players out of the game as soon as the outcome is no longer in doubt.

Also, if the Bulls are able to channel their anger into a Game 6 win, the retaliation could even happen in a Game 7 if the Celtics take an insurmountable lead in that game. When your teammate gets punched in the face, the offender admits he was trying to commit a hard foul, and the league takes no action, there’s going to be a lot of pent-up resentment. Couple that plus the frustration at the season being over, and the Celtic players would have good reason to not drive to the basket the last few minutes of the game.

hawks/heat game.

pachulia, elbow to o’neal’s face.

two plays later, hard foul from o’neal on pachulia.

in today’s nba both could have been called as more than they were. instead, playoff game, elbow. retaliation. no t’s. no flagrents. its over. tit for tat, etc. game goes on. how i wish it still was in the nba.

I don’t know if this has been said earlier, but why was Hinrich’s foul on Perkins at the start of overtime not considered a flagrant? He put both arms around Perk and bear-hugged him to prevent a dunk. He did this before Perk got off the ground, so it wasn’t a shooting foul, but he was behind Perk and couldn’t have been going for the ball any more than Rondo did on the last play.

I cannot stand it when a someone argues one call, when you just got a ridiculously blatant call called for you 1 play earlier. The Bulls had their final 2 possesions at the end of OT. 1st Ben Gordon steps out of bounds. 2nd Miller gets fouled by Rondo, possibly flagrant. You really think the Bulls deserved 7 points on their last 2 possesions? Gordon steps out of bounds so you think the Bulls should get 3 points for that AND you want Miller to get the flagrant call AND hit both free throws AND you score again on the additional possesion? That is ridiculous. Gordon was out, so you should have gotten 0 points out of that, then Miller missed the 1st free throw, even if he makes the 2nd, and Bulls hit a 3 on the additional possesion its still only 4 points and they needed 5 points on their last 2 possesions just to tie the game. So you want Ben Gordon to be called in bounds when he was out AND you want Miller to get the flagrant call. That is cheating plain and simple. That is why the going back on forth on this makes no sense. All you have to do is call the last 2 plays evenly and the Celtics win. How do the Bulls deserve to get both of those calls? Sometimes what you people do not realize is when the refs blatantly miss a call they call it the other way on the next play that could questionably go either way. There is no arguement here whatsoever.

but how do you rule it a flagrant AND rule Gordon inbounds. You’re supposed to be all gung ho for the integrity of the game for the Rondo foul, but be all hush hush, like Shhhhh it didn’t happen on the Gordon play. The outcome of the game only changes if you cheat and argue one way for one play, and completely ignore the fact you got the same call called for you one play earlier.

anything about the ouf of bounds play being not reviewable is bogus. The rule is stupid. Case in point. Blazers score with 6 people on the court and they count the basket. NBA realized the rule was stupid and they changed the rule. The out of bounds rule should be changed also, especially if you are reviewing the play to see where his feet were. Why were they reviewing the play? To see where Gordon’s feet were, and his foot was out of bounds. That is 10 times more of a blown call than a possible flagrant foul will ever be.

Youre all still wrong. The league has ruled. Not a flagrant. End of story. Doesnt matter how much you complain. It will ever be a fond memory for me when I remember the Celtics winning this series…

Rondo commited a very light face rake…definately a foul.

Rondo did not cause blood or loosen the tooth, Miller did that after the fact flying into Paul Pierces elbow.
That is very apparent (Millers face coming down to Pierces moving elbow) on several angles of the replays out there (and repeatedly shown multiple times right after it happened on TV)

Miller himself blew off the rake saying "I missed it," he said. "I was getting a forearm shiver to the face." thus admitting what the replays clearly show.

A foul yes, a flagrant 1 called at the times, technically yes….a flagrant overturning the refs in hindsight? Not when you ignore the injury (which Rondo’s foul did not cause) as only the hype it was (the press loves the lil guy taking out goliath angle)

The NBA does not specifically define what a flagrant foul is, because there are too many possible circumstances, so it’s impossible. They provide GUIDELINES. Now the NBA has chosen guidelines for a flagrant 1 that include a “wind-up” plus the resultant “excessive” contact. They have chosen guidelines for a flagrant 2 to include a wind-up + contact + follow-through.

As they said in their announcement: in Rondo’s case there was no wind-up, and no follow through. Therefore, no change to the refs call. Just a hard foul.

WHY do they have these guidelines? Contrary to what many have said, here and elsewhere, it IS about intent… even though “intent” is not specifically mentioned in the rulebook. A “wind-up” was chosen as part of the guidelines BECAUSE it implies an intent to commit a flagrant foul ( “unnecessary” contact). They chose the follow-through as an additional criterion for a flagrant 2 because it implies not only intent, but some level of malice (unsportsmanlike behavior, etc.).

In the end, it IS about the state of mind of the player committing the foul. It doesn’t say that explicitly in the rules, but it’s there nonetheless.

Note: Ariza’s foul on Rudy should have been a flagrant 1 because of the wind-up. There was no follow through, so it should have been downgraded from the 2. I suppose they didn’t do it because of the severity of the result… whatever. These guidelines are clearly not set in stone.

being disqualified from complaining about officiating for eternity. As great as 23 was, your kidding yourself if the whislte was not swallowed on him on a nightly basis. You has a decade of love from the officials stop your crying over what was the right call.

I just wonder if they belive Jordan pushed off against Utah and complained……

I for one do not believe that “they” are out tp get boston. I dont believe stern is sitting behind a cutain pulling levers. But I do think he could take action to help limit the favoritism