Best Case/Worst Case
by Jeff Clark on May 28, 2009 5:00 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintIf it seems like I'm easing into this offseason like a toddler testing the still-too-cold water at the beach on Memorial Day, its because I'm not sure exactly what to make of it.
There's a sense of urgency and uncertainty that is palpable to everyone involved. That ever closing window looms like the sword of Damocles over Danny's head. Granted, even if the Big 3 fades off into the sunset I will still consider Banner 17 well worth it. Still, there's a real opportunity here to win multiple titles and failing to do so would be a disappointment.
So with that as the backdrop, I felt like providing some parameters on my expectations for the offseason. Just to provide some general direction without being too specific.
First of all, we have to take injuries out of the equation. Unless there's some new developments, we have to assume that everyone will return next year healthy (albeit a year older).
Next we have to throw out the outliers. In other words, when I say "best case" I don't mean a situation where Stern forces Cleveland to trade us LeBron and Kobe retires to pursue a baseball career (so he can at least be better than MJ at one thing). When I say "worst case" I don't mean a nightmare where Donald Sterling buys the team from Wyc and company and creates a Clippers East. I'm hoping to be somewhat reasonable (understanding of course that I'm a bleeding heart Kool Aid drinker of course). So lets get to it.
Worst Case
I like to hear the bad news first and I want to set a baseline. We have to understand that even though this team lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs, they played very well at times without their best all-around player. One has to believe that if everyone is healthy, we have the main pieces already in place to compete for a championship.
There's always a fear that the owners will say that they can't continue paying luxury tax at this rate. They might veto the use of the MLE and take a pass on re-signing Big Baby. We'd see another offseason much like last summer where we would lose our top free agent and fill in the roster spots with veteran minimum guys and draft picks.
We'd be counting on guys like Bill Walker and JR Giddens and/or Gabe Pruitt to step up into bigger roles. We might even re-sign Mikki Moore and Stephon Marbury to provide some consistency and veteran help.
Sounds like a pretty bad plan all around, but consider this: We'd still have arguably the best starting lineup anywhere and of course the annual option of picking up mid season guys that are tossed aside by clubs looking to save cash. Which might just get us 55 to 60 wins and a 2nd round exit again (because the big 3 would be worn down, if not hurt by the end).
Now for the good news.
Best Case
On the other end of the spectrum, I get to dream a little and play a game of "what if?"
What if the majority of teams this offseason are scared by the economy and refuse to pay all but the top free agents on the market (like Carlos Boozer) anything near what they'd get on the open market in most offseasons? That would level the playing field and give anyone with a Mid Level Exception (which is everyone) the chance to pick up a high level free agent.
Note: At this point I'm going to refrain from naming names because it will distract from the point, but you are welcome to debate in the comments.
So, with the lure of a potential ring, the Celtics could snag a bargain and upgrade the roster in a big way.
Then we could package Scalabrine, Tony Allen, and JR Giddens (expiring salaries totaling nearly $7M) for another upgrade (perhaps for a player that got the MLE in the past few years but the team can't afford anymore).
So that's two veteran upgrades that in theory would fill two of Doc's prescribed needs (lets just say a big man and a small forward). In theory, you could find a backup point guard either through the draft or via a veterans minimum contract.
And while we're at it, lets go ahead and re-sign Big Baby and Leon Powe too. All together that gives us a very deep bench and a great shot at Banner 18. Is this reasonable? No, probably not, but I can dream can't I?
Conclusion
As usual the end result will likely fall somewhere in between. Interestingly enough, neither scenario involves anything as drastic as trading Ray Allen - but that's a topic I'm saving for another day.
So what do you think? Is my worst case too dire or all too realistic? Is my best case too rediculous? What's your best guess at what will actually take place?
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Dream On. It's OK
Why do you think anyone else would want Scal and Tony. At least Giddens comes with a “maybe”. Those other two have limited value. Scal’s max value may be to the Celtics – his sense of role, grasp of the D schemes, his surrounding “Big 3” – he’s not an important piece to anyother team I can think of. And Tony….you’d have to pay another team to take him off your hands. We needed a Tony Allen-type player during the playoffs and we had one and didn’t dare use him. So who do you think we could sucker with him.
I like Bill Walker. We will get help from him next year. No one else in these times is going to overpay to get Marbury away from us and I liked his effort on D and he did have an O game once. i see him back. And I don’t know what to think about a big man. I thought the POB experiment was a brilliant move. But nothing there. Mikki….his negatives outnumbered his positives.
We will be OK if health can be counted on. And how do you plan on having bad health? The C’s have to build arround a “good health” assumption
expiring contracts
Scal and Tony have expiring contracts – pure and simple – someone looking to dump cash may be attracted to that if they can offload a big contract on us
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
They have some value, as does Giddens, in a package for a legitimate backup 3.
And I disagree, totally, about building a plan around good health. You simply cannot do that, given the age of the Big Three, and make any assumptions whatsoever about contending for a title. Do that, and the season ends in mid-May.
Again.
fair enough
obviously I’m looking to get as much depth as possible on the bench – which helps if someone goes down – and injures happen, regardless of age
I was just saying that I wouldn’t go into the season assuming we would not get KG back at all
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Re-Expiring Contracts
We have another chip, kind of an expiring contract in BBD. As a restricted Free Agent we can match his offer sheet and then trade him along with Scal, TA, or Eddie House (if he excercises his player option) or combined with anyone else.
Scal and Tony and
I think the expiring thing is not as valuable – teams worried about the economy probably need to save money this year. The advantage is they could trade for a guy making somehwate more and include cash to cover most of the buyouts it would take. I suggested in the forums that Scal and Tony and Pruitt could be sent for Darko. Throw in 3 million in cash and Memphis could probably turn a 7 million dollar commitment into 1-2 million dollars of buyouts. I actually think they could use both Scal and Tony (at least more than we can) – but it works. Say Memphis traded its late first from ORL (which costs more than its worth for them) and we sent a second rounder (with no costs) – that deal would make sense.
I think we should seek hard on the wings for a bargain – thats where you can get a Hill or Barnes type.
It's all about the $$$
What are Scal and Allen’s values? If you’re the Suns and in the financial straits they’re in, trading Barbosa for those two would save $15.2M… $15.2M!!!!
I don’t think Giddens would be attractive to the Suns for $$$ reasons. But I have to think that a Scalabrine/Allen/cash/future #1 might be enough to get the Suns to bite and possibly have Scal bought out and back to the Cs before the season started.
good point about the Suns salaries
saving 15M is a big carrot to dangle
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Best / Worse Case
Good article Jeff. This summer should be fun. The economy should force some very good players to the MLE level. Ainge will have no excuses not to come away with a couple of good role players. I see a big and a wing. We haven’t had a good backup point the last two years, why start now.
packup point
I guess it is a testament to Rondo that most consider backup PG the lower of the 3 priorities – he’s still young and resilient (if sometimes lacking in consistency) – plus in a pinch we can have Eddie play some minutes there
also, I feel like you can pick up a vet. min PG and be mostly happy with their limited minutes
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
I agree. There are more serviceable point guards out there. The critical issues of need – the things we must have to contend next year – are quality at the 5 and 3.
I still have nightmares about Robert Swift in the Green.
Swift
he can be a 3rd string center on the team for min. money and it wouldn’t bother me any worse than Mikki Moore or Patrick O’Bryant
but yeah, there has to be better options out there
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Don't give Scal away!!!
Lets be careful with our Scal trade scenarios . Before give him away lets just think about 1)Don’t know when LPowe is comming back 2)Don’t know if we can resign BBD 3)MMoore sucks.
Heck, I saw more fire and will from Scal’s left sport bra than Moore and POB combined.
If you what you get back is a clear upgrade…say RWallace/Boozer etc, then lets go right ahead – otherwise, what’s the point?
I believe the best case is more possible than the worst one
Simply because the owners and Danny have already walked that path (last offseason). They will add one or two big names and experienced players to this roster (at least and at last :)
the only thing I fear
is how high the luxury tax pricetag could get if we try to sign multiple players and keep Big Baby
I know the owners are willing to spend, but I’m not sure how far they are willing to go
besides, if we “go for it” this year, you have to understand that it might kill us in years to come with overpriced contracts – might be worth it, but the danger is there
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
I think you can go all in for this year without breaking the bank, frankly.
Baby is an example: Given his skillset and his significant limitations, if the young man can get $5 million a year out of another team, then good luck to him. I’m not willing to go more than about $10 million for three for a guy who doesn’t finish well, plays largely below the rim and struggles defensively. We want to be careful not to overpay for him like we overpaid for Tony Allen.
You can exchange contracts, as we discuss above, for one of the essential needs we have left.
The needs are two or three players, tops. It can be done – with intelligent personnel decisions.
I haven't done the math
but it isn’t as simple as adding 3 pieces, especially if we trade Scal (a valued bench player) to fill one of the needs
we could potentially lose most of our bench (not that I’m all the broken up about that) so we’ll still need to fill out the roster
that said, if we get a rock solid 8-9 man rotation, you can go with a roster of 12 players and make 3 or 4 of them rookies or 2nd year guys you are developing for the future
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Two things
First, I’ve heard rumors that the luxury tax may not actually be moving back because it usually is one year removed from the factors in consideration. Just because the economy tanked last year doesn’t mean the tax is necessarily moving back this year, it might be moved back the year after. That could save the owners some money and make the best case a little cheaper than expected since most people were projecting the tax to move back significantly for the 09-10 season. Just a thought.
Second, running an 8-9 man rotation just makes me nervous when the past couple of seasons have shown that our guys are prone to being worn down. There are two distinct approaches here, in my opinion. One is that with all the injuries that happened to us in 08-09, we’re likely headed for a relatively injury free 09-10 campaign. The other is that our roster is just that more likely to get injured with another year and another 100 or so games.
For the purposes of this article, I can understand ignoring injuries as a concern but you have to consider them a possibility in constructing a roster for next season. As a businessman concerned with giving the team the best chance of repeating as champs, you have to consider the risk of injury which with this team is higher than normal, I’m afraid to say.
Unfortunately, injuries are part of the game and sometimes there nothing you can do to minimize their effect on a team. If Bron, Kobe, Superman, Melo, Dirk or others go down the season is basically done – at least for a championship. Unfortunately for us KG went down and so did we. We might be able to survive without PP or Ray with a good backup, but not KG. How many KGs are there in the NBA? Just one!!!!!!!!!!
I am interested in your thoughts on trading Ray
GREAT career, good starter, replacable with the MLE?
by Michael Anthony on May 28, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions
maybe next week
I should have an article up on that sometime soon
in short: I’m not a fan of it, but I can see the rationale
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
That’s an issue where I do think you have to listen.
However, what comes in return is the key. If you can move Ray and position your team to win next year – i.e. for Kevin Martin and Nocioni – you should listen.
If the deal is made with 2012 in mind, I am totally and irrevocably opposed. The pieces are still there to win a title if they’re intelligently augmented. A blow up trade would be insane.
agreed
starting over or even trying to bridge the gap to the next generation would be out of the question
if we can get a younger star in return for Ray, you have to at least think about it
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Can't wait to see your thoughts on Ray Ray...
Might want to take a look at Bill Simmons thoughts about the Spurs trading Parker. (I’m on the B.S bandwagon!) I see similarities to Ray in the fact that he really gets us the most bang for the buck (since KG and PP are not going anywhere). At some point you have to give something of value to get something of value before it’s too late (as Simmons uses McHale as an example and which I think Ainge has commented since that he felt they should have moved him). Plus, I really don’t like the idea of mortgaging the future for now anymore than we already have with the Big 3. Remember we still have Rondo for a long time, there’s got to be a way to segueway to the “next generation”.
"Just do what you do best."
~Red Auerbach
Forget The Article On Ray
He’s not for sale.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Just in case anyone wanted to read...
the aforementioned BS mailbag (about halfway down):
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090522/part2&sportCat=nba
"Just do what you do best."
~Red Auerbach
Would you trade Ray in a MyDyess or Payton-like deadline deal?
We trade him for someone younger who has multiple years left on his contract but who’s team wants out of the deal. The non-playoff team buys out the remainder of Ray’s year, cuts him and Ray take a month off, returning after the 30-day window.
sure
if you can pull it off, why not?
I’m not going to bank on it, but it is an option if nothing else works
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Nope...
I wouldn’t trade Ray, nor Pierce or Garnett. I hope all three retire as Celtics.
On a completely unrelated note, what about signing Iverson with the MLE and bringing him off the bench? It would provide the 2nd team with a scoring punch, and reduced minutes would help prolong his career and avoid the turnovers and lack of passing that usually comes with him.
by funkstarrdeluxe on May 28, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
They won't all retire as Celtics
We saw this already. I went to retirement ceremonies for Larry, Kevin, and Robert and had a great time. But its not in the best interest of the future of the franchise and Danny knows it. Probably one or two will, but Danny will definitely try to use large expiring contracts to bring in new players.
I doubt it
That Iverson idea isn’t so hot. He’s made it pretty clear that he doesn’t want to come off the bench anywhere. In my opinion, his attitude was even worse than pre-Celtics Marbury. Iverson was at least on a contender and had a chance to do decently well with the Pistons but instead he was the primary reason why they did so poorly.
Sure, he’s probably got more ability left in the tank than Starbury but he’d be an even bigger attitude risk.
I watched highlights on You Tube last night of Game 4 of the Finals last year when the Celtics came back from 20 plus points to win and take a 3-1 lead in the series.. I watched how Posey and PJ Brown helped the comeback, and how KG took Gasol to school in the 4th period. It was also great to see Powe play and contribute in that game. It made me realize even more that what this team accomplished this season was amazing. It also confirmed everyone’s opinion that the bench was too thin after KG went down. I am convinced even more that we have to make some serious upgrades on the bench this year. We need healthy veteran players who have not lost a step and who are hungry for a ring. If we add McDyess and Hill, we need to offset their age with the youthfulness and energy of Walker and Giddens. If we get a healthy KG and Powe can stay healthy down the stretch, the addition of a couple of bench players plus the guys we have is all we need. Had we had the exact same team this year with no injuries, we would be a lock to repeat. Let’s not tinker too much. Just do it intelligently without overreacting.
One Thing About Next Year
I don’t think waiting till the trade deadline to bring in vets such as PJ, Sam, Steph and Mikki works. They don’t have enough time to know the offensive and defensive schemes and to integrate their game with the other players. Also, if they haven’t played in a long time or are coming off injuries there isn’t enough time to get their legs back and get in game shape. PJ is the only one that worked out, but all in all how much did he really give us?
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Really depends on the player
Don’t underestimate PJ’s contribution last year. The one thing this year showed us is that depth in the size department is extremely important. Perkins has shown great ability to defend centers (see the first 6 games against Dwight) but he isn’t the help defender that KG was. Having a seven footer patrolling the paint and altering the shots of anyone driving the lane is extremely important.
Comparing PJ and Mikki shows that distinction incredibly well. Mikki was a player with very little defensive ability in the first place. When he first came to the Celtics, everyone was optimistic that Thibodeau could coach him up to play defense. Obviously that was a total failure. I subscribe to the idea that a player is what he is, for the most part. Either he has that defensive ability and desire or he doesn’t. PJ had it and that’s why he succeeded in our defensive schemes; Mikki never did and that’s why he failed.
That's also why McDyess would be such a good signing
McDyess has that defensive presence already. Integrating him into our schemes would be far easier. Plus, he’s unquestionably better than PJ and Mikki.
Agree On PJ
I was almost going to add what you said about PJ, but was trying to keep it simple. My main point though is that if you are going to add to the team do it before training camp.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Think Big!
Granted, none of these things will happen but…
1} I`d much rather lose Doc than Thibodeau. Either give Tom Doc`s job right now, or promise him that it`s his by 2011 at the latest.
2} Get Amare Stoudemire right now! Give them Ray as an expiring contract, give them Baby Davis & Bill Walker.
Imagine Amare & KG & Paul for the next few years!
Imagine Amare & Rondo for the next seven years!
Trading Ray is unlikely...
I don’t see how you can possibly upgrade at that position.
Let’s give Ray some credit. He is a perennial all star, the best outside shooter in the game, an excellent teammate, and role model.
He is also one of the best conditioned athletes in the league, and should be capable of major contributions over the next couple of years(if he is extended)
by OutofServicePervis on May 28, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions
which is why...
you would have to at least survey the possibility of trading him – he has value. If you wait until he is visibly declining, you’ve waited too long. There is no doubt that he is playing on the downside of his career simply because of his age, yet the discussion remains how many years left does he have…let the another team take that risk. we already have 2 other players (PP, KG) that carry a high risk of inevitable decline. 3/5 of your starting roster is a lot of risk to take on when faced with the absolute facts, players get old. We saw it with Bird, McHale and Parish. Loyalty is a very altruistic attitude that can eventually lead a team to years of recovery. I love Ray, but we need to look into the future while continuing to chase the trophy now.
"Just do what you do best."
~Red Auerbach
BIG
Jeff,
How about that guy from Orlando (Gortat) as the backup big? How cheap do you think he’ll come? Then Ariza has a three (unless he really does hate us) and we’re set.
This is why...
…you have to at least listen to offers for Ray Allen:
imagine if someone like the Wizards decides to “go in a different direction” and shed some salary quick
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qwvqlc
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
another
also, if the Hornets decide to firesale the team
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=r9d6ch
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
one more
why not, right?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=oc5av2
are any of these in the least bit realistic? nope
but it tells you the kind of buying power his salary holds – all it takes is one insane (or desperate) owner to start a firesale
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
What about 'Sheed?
He’d be a decent defender coming off the bench, can play the 4,5, and 3 in a pinch (think Sheed/KG/Perk against Orlando big 3). You can give him 25-30 minutes off the bench, and he gives you the versatility to play big or to play small. he’s got the attitude that plays poorly elsewhere, but would fit in nicely with the C’s, and he’s best buddies with KG to boot.
The question is: would he take Big Baby money to play here?
Plus
It would make everyone hate us even more!
I’m for it as long as he plays for the MLE and is willing to be a backup. I would be nervous about him because he can be a jerk, but he can play. He fills 2 needs, a backup center and KG backup. I think Danny and Doc would have to really check out all the angles/issue before signing him. 3 yrs MLE is the most I would go.
not sold on Sheed
I don’t think he’s even worth the MLE and he wants more than that
he seems to disappear for long stretches at a time too
I’ll pass
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
My take
Agree with True Green that picking up vets at the deadline usually doesn’t work, and shouldn’t be our Plan A.
Agree with Wildblu that TA and Scal have no value. There’s dozens of expiring contracts out there this year. Why would a team looking to dump salary take TA and Scal instead of someone who can, you know, actually play, if only for the one season?
Cleveland’s salaries were $12 million more than ours, this year. That may be the new threshold for a team that truly wants to compete.
We might as well resign ourselves to Robert Swift (LOL). But the posters who said he can only be the end-of-bench big, and not the backup C we need, are absolutely right. Even with Ticket, Perk, and Baby, we still need TWO bigs (in addition to Swift). Powe is out for 2009-10, so no make-believe there.
I’m encouraged that Doc, at least, acknowledges the need for three additional bench players. The glass is half full, IMHO.
The new vet min types should include someone long and quick enough to defend Lewis and Turkoglu on the perimeter, and someone with the physical size and quickness to throw at LBJ: maybe Pops Mensah-Bonsu?
Sheed doesn’t care if his team wins or loses. Pass.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Starting 5 looks good:
Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Perkins
Bench Needs:
1. SF who can provide minutes and scoring for Pierce.
Can Bill Walker do that? Danny Ainge gambled last year that Tony Allen could replace James Posey. It didn’t happen but it was a reasonable decision. Danny is a good talent evaluator so hopefully he and Doc have a view to how ready Walker is to contribute in meaningful ways. Same for JR Giddens, although he’s more of a scoring guard.
2. Another big man.
I don’t know if it’s a 4 and/or a 5 or just more depth on the front lines. I think Powe and Big Baby are different players that play the same position, so you have to think about what each one does well and how you value their respective strengths. Powe is more of a traditional 4, a strong body who can post up and rebound. Baby is more like a big 3 without the quickness to defend other 3’s and without the size to rebound like a 4. My gut tells me Baby is expendable and we shouldn’t reach too far to sign him. His scoring came in handy down the stretch but I think we can get “Baby-like” production from elsewhere, whether it’s more offense from Walker at the 3 and a healthy Leon Powe at the 4.
You could argue that even if we bring back the same roster AND stay healthy, we should be in a position to contend. The worst case is we lose Davis and use the money to sign another player of his calibre.
Still need a backup point guard, but I agree with Rondo now taking 75-80% of the minutes and production of the position our quality needs from a backup are limited. We just need a guy who can handle the ball and run the offense. Marbury isn’t really worth the hassle even if he would stay to be a backup.
Agree
Jeff
I like you scenarios but I can’t see them going the worst case, not with a chance to win a championship. I just checked out our roster for 2009/10 on Hoopshpe/Salary and our salary for next year is $72.3M with Gabe P, dumping him puts us at $71.6. Our Salary was 79.6 this season and I would hope he could match that or maybe (best case) go slight above depending on the player). However, I hope they bring back Leon, which will take about $1M.
I disagree with resiging BBD if he gets an offer for more than $2.5M and 3 years, but I can see him in a Sign and Trade for a need.
I think we need to use all the available methods and assets – MLE, Sign-and-trade (BBD) expiring contracts ($8.5M) Scal, TA & Eddie, Vet min, and the draft. And I think Danny will do just that. I think the key for us is to move some of our salaries to fill our needs.and be willing to take back more than we move. Example moving Scal and TA plus using the MLE in trades and signing would give us $12M to make moves and put us at $77-78M which is less than this year. This would leave us the Bi-Annual Exception if we wanted to do something at the trade dealine. Using this would put us at $79-80M around this year salary. I think this is reasonable.
If money dries up this year awaiting 2010 or due to the economy, there may even be a premium FA that will sign for the MLE. I have a feeling that R. Wallace will be looking for the MLE.
I think we are in good shape to make a run at the championship next year with some upgrades compared to some of the other contenders.
Best case
I think we need two have five big men to compete these days. You need your top 3 to rotate. Then you need a C and PF in case one of the other bigs goes down and situational. I think you can get by with 4 for most of the season. I think you need three wings, the third wing plays starters minutes, plus a backup at the wing in case any of the top three go down. I think you need your starting PG, plus a backup G who can play PG and SG in various situations (so you have smooth rotations and insurance.) Then you probably need a third string PG to break open in case of emergency.
That gives you 5 starters, three key reserves (big man, wing, combo guard) and four backups (C, PF, wing, PG) the backup PG probably never plays, the backup C and PF probably alternate who plays depending on matchups, and the wing sees time only sparingly, its a big bonus if the backup wing and PG can do one thing real well (usually D or 3pt shooting.)
starters: Perk, KG, Pierce, Ray Allen, Rondo – still the best starting five in ball all set there
rotation: ?, ?, House – House is okay as the combo guard provided he plays with wings that can handle the ball. I’d like to see Grant Hill as the backup wing, and think he can be had for the LLE or better yet vet min. That leaves the big question. If Rasheed can still play, and will take the MLE, then he’s a no brainer to me. He can play with KG or Perk, he’s got talent, and he brings in a threat off the bench that’s hard to account for. Otherwise there are a bunch of options like McD or BBD that could be our rotation big (both can play C or PF, but both have limitations in either spot.)
reserves: I see Powe being resigned and coming around towards the end of the year as the backup PF. He’s so good at what he does, that I think he’ll come back full strength, and I still see upside in Powe down the road. Pruitt and one of Walker/Giddens may be acceptable third string PG and backup Wing options. Then I’d like to see DA trade Scal, Tony, and whoever doesn’t make it of the Walker/Giddens group to MEM for Darko.
The final team looks like:
Perk/Darko
KG/Sheed/Powe
Pierce/Hill
Allen/Walker
Rondo/House/Pruitt
That’s 12 guys. They bring in a warm body while Powe gets better and whoever they draft goes D-League. Leaving them with the LLE and a roster spot in case injury, failure, or opportunity allow a mid season pickup. Interestingly enough, I think Perk and Rondo would be the toughest two guys to lose with this lineup.
Best Case — Willing to spend MLE, LLE, minimum contracts + resign BBD … and willing to take the massive luxury tax hit that comes with that.
Excellent Case — Willing to either spend MLE or sign BBD, and use LLE.
Bad Case — Not willing to spend MLE or sign BBD
Worst Case — Resigning BBD to $4-5mil per annum for a three or four year contract … and in doing so making the C’s brass unwilling to spend the MLE this summer and in future summers.
not bad
way to sum it up in way less words than I took!
:)
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Jeff
Can either you or Roy confirm that if we sign and trade BBD he is the only one going. I don’t think we can lump him (after signing him) with anyone else on our roster and trade him elsewhere per the cap rules, etc. I’ve read a few posts here of doing this though. Thanks for clarifying!
Interesting 3 way trade
Hey guys, this is my first time posting on here. Ive been a Celtics fan since I was 3 out in Jackson, Wyoming!! Cool site….a lot of intelligent bball talk. Anyway, I think we need to at least consider trading Ray Allen this offseason. I love him, but if the right deal came around, I would hope Danny would jump on it. I was messing around with the trade machine, and this trade works for all three teams…..Check it out
C’s get: Kevin Martin SG Kings, Andres Nocioni SF Kings, and Earl Watson PG Thunder
C’s give: Ray Allen, Tony Allen, Gabe Pruitt
It works for us because we replace Ray’s scoring (probably more) with Martin, and gives us a valuable backup for Pierce in Nocioni. We also get a solid back up PG. And, we wouldnt have TA!
Thunder get: Ray Allen, Gabe Pruitt
Thunder give: Earl Watson, Nick CollisonPF/C, Thabo Sefolosha SF, and Chucky Atkins PG
It works for them because they only lose one starter in Sefolosha, but replace him with an assassin in Allen. Starting 5 of Westbrook, Allen, Durant, Green and Krstic is a playoff team. Plus their #4 in June.
Kings get: Tony Allen, Nick Collison, Chucky Atkins, and Sefolosha.
Kings give: Kevin Martin, Andres Nocioni
The Kings would obviously be getting the short end of the stick talent wise, but they would get rid of two long term deals and give them loads of cap room for the summer of 2010. Maybe a few draft picks would need to be thrown their way too? They arent going to make the playoffs in the next couple of years, so why not try and save money and stockpile picks and cap room, and try to seriously compete in 3-5 yrs?
Like or no???
No Way.
There is no way that the kings would do this deal. They give up a young start for TONY ALLEN? Your head is up in the clouds if you think they would do this deal. They ARE trying to get better as a team and Kevin Martin is a valuable assist to their team.
interesting
but I think less will happen
Powe resigned
Davis probably resigned
draft pick
the end
the key is the draft pick
as usual
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