Wyc Comes Clean About KG's Injury
by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 1, 2009 6:21 AM EDT
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48 comments
As reported by the Herald:
“We were being Belichickian,” Celtics managing partner Wyc Grousbeck said of the infamously covert Pats coach. “We had a great example to follow with the New England Patriots, and we were following their World Championship lead.”
Grousbeck said last week that a heavy dose of gamesmanship went into the trickle of information - or misinformation - regarding Garnett. It might have paid a small playoff dividend to leave opponents - and the media - wondering whether Garnett was coming back, even when the team apparently knew better. . . .
The truth, according to Grousbeck, is the team’s medical staff knew exactly what it would find during the operation on Garnett’s knee last week.
Though Danny Ainge, the executive director of basketball operations, said last week that surgeons “did not have to touch” the tendon during arthroscopic surgery, the inflamed muscle indeed was caused by the bone spur, according to Grousbeck.
Though everyone from Ainge to Doc Rivers intimated during the playoffs that the two knee issues may not be related - that the inflamed tendon somehow was independent of the bone spur - the Celtics managing partner said everyone knew the truth.
“There was no mystery about the problem,” he said. “The only mystery was how (Garnett) was going to be able to do something on it. We just didn’t feel like sharing that with the media at the time.
“It was just a matter of declining to comment on it. I mean, he did come back to play four (regular-season) games, and I believe that he might have tried to play against Cleveland if we had made it that far.
“But this all threw our opponents into some confusion about what was happening.”
I don't know how I feel about this. The gamesmanship obviously didn't get the Celtics very far; how much better did they do than if they had just been candid? I doubt any opposing team's preparation was affected in the least by KG's absence; they no doubt prepared as if he was going to be there, but also spent time game-planning for BBD (gameplan: let him shoot from outside).
In the meantime, Doc and Danny repeatedly lied to the fans. Wyc may distinguish this by saying that the team misled the "media", but that's semantics; he was deliberately misleading the fan base, many of whom live and die with the team.
From the interview, it makes it sound like he thinks the team was being clever. However, while Belichick may be coy with the media, I don't remember too many times when he, the coaching staff, and the GM directly lied to the fans about a player's injury.
Also, of course, I wonder how candid the team was with the players. Paul Pierce, at least, was tweeting about KG returning all the way up through the regular season finale. Did this strategy affect team preparation, even in the slightest degree? If so, it was a miscalculation.
Certainly, it's not a huge deal. However, I'm also not sure that this is something to be bragging about. At least from my perspective, I wish this is one team secret that Wyc had kept to himself.
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Weak "gamesmanship"
Gamesmanship would’ve been saying that he’s coming back for game 7 … only to not put him in the starting lineup. What kind of gamesmanship is saying he won’t play and not playing him. Um, I guess I wouldn’t mind playing Wyc in poker.
by libermaniac on May 31, 2009 10:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
never good when the team owner, GM and coach lie to the fans even if they did have the best of intentions
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 31, 2009 10:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was plainly stupid.
It sounds like one of those ill-considered errors in judgement we’ve all made, and would do otherwise if we had it to do over again. It’s nothing terribly horrible or sinister. But definitely, they broke trust with their fans, and totally needlessly. It doesn’t pay to play things cute in the press.
by no kidding on May 31, 2009 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We Weren't Fooled
The queston is, will the tendon have to be reattached to the bone?
Mr. Grousbeck, in your veritable orgasm of candor, can you answer that question directly and truthfully?
by Brickowski on May 31, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
???
If it is indeed true that they knew all along then I’m OK. Winning is their first priority and if not saying anything (or even misleading the media) could “potentially” do anything to help the team then I support them protecting the flow of information. Should they now start announcing their true draft or trade intentions to media and fans thus blowing any strategy they may want to pursue against the interests of other teams?
One other thing to consider, perhaps Wyck is doing a little damage control. My thoughts were the following. If they had properly diagnosed KG’s condition right up front, could they have had surgery and had him ready for the playoffs? I’m no doctor so perhaps I’m just uninformed about the procedure.
by sgawrys on May 31, 2009 10:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about damage control, wasn’t it reported they knew he had the bone spur thing in the beginning of the year, like around training camp? If they knew all along what was up, it sounds like they took a risk of him playing on it during the season and it just got worse.
I guess this will all get hashed out since there’s not much else going on Celtics-wise. So long as the part about KG coming back a 100% is true, I don’t really care about this nonsense.
by Berkcelt on May 31, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amateur hour
I usually like Wyc, but he comes off very poorly here. It just seems cheap and the opposite of what he intended (which seems like cleverness and cunning). And if you read that article, other than the bone spur and the tendon being connected, everything he said is basically what they said before: KG might’ve tried to play later in the playoffs, but they were highly expecting him to be out for good. It’s kind of silly.
by Berkcelt on May 31, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not Like Belichik
If it were like Belichik, we would NEVER know about what the deal was. You can’t take the Patriots philosophy, and then say you took the patriots philosophy, you just do it and never talk about it.
by WBrownTrophy on May 31, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i have no trouble with what they did. who did they hurt? not kg. hopefully he can come back healthy and help get us #18.
by nazzbo on May 31, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As a guy who spends a lot of money on season tickets
This “gamesmanship” does not make me very happy. This kind of deception is one of the reasons I have never been a fan of Bill Belichik. Maybe Wyc should have revealed the deception prior to the deadline date for renewing season tickets.
by vinnie on May 31, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Would this have governed your decision making on
season ticket renewal?
Boston Celtics - 2008 World Champions
by QuinielaBox on May 31, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whether or not it would...
It’s sort of seedy to not tell people you’d been lying to them until AFTER you’ve gotten what you want.
by USG on Jun 1, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would still have renewed
And I would have appreciated the honesty from the team.
by vinnie on Jun 1, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Save the lesson on morality, Roy
Jesus, they repeatedly lied to the fanbase! OMG!
Man, I love me some righteous indignation, but come on, it’s a little overboard to say the Celtics lied repeatedly to the fanbase. Get a grip, my boy, things aren’t always as they appear to be and, yes, sometimes the things people say aren’t going to be the complete truth because, I hate to break it to you, there are a lot of unknowns out there and so every statement is a hedging of one’s bets, based on what’s NOW known and not on what will be known.
The fact is, they didn’t ‘know’ anything until they operated, Wyc’s smugness not withstanding. It’s hard to lie when you don’t know what you’re talking about, right? Without knowledge (intimate understanding of what was happening KG’s knee), the Cs were left with two avenues of communication when discussing KG’s knee: hope and belief. They ‘hoped’ the swelling would go down. They ‘believed’ the bone spur and tendon strain were unconnected. Most injuries are treated conservatively, especially when suffered by athletes of KG’s stature, and so the best course of business was to ‘hope’ the swelling went down (which is the established course of treatment for KG’s particular strain) and to ‘believe’ that KG would be ready come playoff time. To come around after the fact with the benefit of complete knowledge and scream, ‘they lied to us!’ is childish at best.
Most fans know the world is fraught with uncertainties and thus don’t hold their favorite sports teams to unreasonable levels of knowledge and candor.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on May 31, 2009 11:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What was the point?
Doc and Danny repeatedly lied to the fans, for no purpose. If they wanted to be truly "Belichickian" they would have said "no comment", rather than giving the fans false hope. Wyc comes across poorly here.
When Danny and Doc are giving reports to the media regarding a player’s status, and they’re outright lying, it comes across as a little sleazy. Especially, of course, when they tell fans that KG will be playing in the playoffs, and don’t announce that he won’t be until after playoff strips are sold. I wonder if the reason KG didn’t speak to the media is because he didn’t want to be part of the charade.
As I said, it’s not a huge deal, but I’d prefer the team not brag about asinine stunts like this.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 1, 2009 6:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, of course...
Your explanation goes against what Wyc is saying. He says the team misled the media; you seem to deny that. Wyc is probably in a better position to know what he’s talking about than you are.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 1, 2009 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Typical sports ownership behavior, unfortunately, which gets carried to some extremes. Give you an example: Every year, the St. Louis Cardinals ownership pledges to be active in free agency. Then, it’s “we couldn’t find anyone who interested us, so we’ll save the money and be active in spring training.”
Next is, “We couldn’t make a deal that didn’t involve key minor leaguers, so we’ll be active at the deadline.”
Next is, “There wasn’t anything available that we thought would help the ballclub, so we’ll save the money for free agency.”
Then, the treadmill starts all over again. In the meantime, after pledging to increase payroll to $125 million with the completion of a new ballpark, payroll is instead down about $20 million – despite near sellout crowds even through some weekdays.
Grousbeck damages his own credibility with incidents like these. He makes it hard to believe anything that comes out of the front office’s mouth.
by CoachBo on Jun 1, 2009 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pro sports teams lieing to their fans is immoral
And, I honestly do not see much different from publicly held companies lieing to their shareholders. When that happens, executives usually end up in jail. Obviously I am not advocating that here, but just wondering whatever happened to honesty and morals.
by vinnie on Jun 1, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Responses Here...
…are a little surprising.
I’m fine with what they did, though I tend to have compassion for VINNIE (above).
Also, I’m wondering (hoping) that the players (ALL THE PLAYERS) were in on their ‘gamesmanship’ and weren’t, as we were, left in the dark.
I’d hope they were privy…that’s all.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
by mcpu40 on Jun 1, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No big deal either way. However, I am confused as to when “they” figured out what was wrong. I think Wyc’s still trying to be “Bellicheckian.” His story makes very little sense to me — why make KG limp around since February? Sounds to me like he’s “backfilling” his story.
Still, isn’t a big deal. I’m used to being lied to by management. ; )
by Thruthelookingglass on Jun 1, 2009 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whatever they said is not important
As long as KG comes back 100% in full strength or better in 2009-10 season, we shouldn’t spend too much energy figuring out who knows what and when. If they wanted to be honest to the public, they would have given out the whole story in the first place. If they didn’t, they would keep on running circles.
by 33-32-00 on Jun 1, 2009 2:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like it at all.
Dropping the bomb right when the playoffs start is a cruel way to crush the fans’ dreams. Letting us down easily back when they first found out is the only acceptable way to handle this. Bill’s way of doing things is to list guys on the injury list as “questionable” and leave the other teams unaware as to whether or not the guy will play. They messed up. They told us he would play, and that was a lie, and that’s no way to treat your fans.
by USG on Jun 1, 2009 3:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Memo to Wyc :
It is better to keep your mouth shut, and have people think you are a fool…than to open it and remove all doubts!
by Title 18 on Jun 1, 2009 3:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it was stupid and a waste of all of our collective time
by Red2 on Jun 1, 2009 7:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Come on fellas, crying over this is much ado about nothing.
by tmcdon on Jun 1, 2009 8:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wyc is a smart guy
who grew up with all the advantages in the world, has worked hard, and has done a great job with the Celtics. He’s also a human being which means he’s not quite perfect yet. I see the deceitful part of this charade as unfortunate and unproductive and the bragging-about-it part as indicative that he’s still learning. The best thing would be if he could get a little negative feedback on it, tweak his approach, and do better the next time.
Trying to learn from the Patriots’ management—and after all that’s what he says he’s trying to do—isn’t a bad move, he’s just got to refine his application of the lesson a little bit.
by clover on Jun 1, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty accurate.
He’s giving himself too much credit calling these actions “Bellichickian.”
You do what you do and then shut up. You don’t brag about it.
by CoachBo on Jun 1, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said, clover
I agree.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 1, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strange that they lied about the nature of the injury because they were telling the truth when they said he may have played if he felt well enough. What was the point?
by moiso on Jun 1, 2009 9:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are u kidding me ?
The Celtics screwed up bigtime. If they would have taken the spur out from day one, KG woulda been back long before the playoffs. And now instead of admitting they screwed up, t his arogant punk of an owner comes out all cocky and calling himself Belichikian lol. Is this guy serious?
by Adrigol6 on Jun 1, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They couldn’t take the spur from day one because they didn’t know that will cause problems from day one. Sorry. The problem with the bone spur is that it affected the recovery of the other injury, the was the main problem. That’s why after he came back and played a couple of games, the knee didn’t recover as it should. By then it wouldn’t have helped any to have the surgery.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 1, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, in terms of "problems"...
From what I read, the spur was diagnosed in training camp, and they knew it would cause KG pain throughout the year. They expected him to play through the pain — which he did — but I’d consider that a “problem”.
Of course, initially they didn’t know it would affect the tendon. Once that became clear, I’m on the side that would have recommended surgery. 6-to-8 weeks from February would have had KG playing in the playoffs. I’m not a doctor, but logically, if a bone spur is causing irritation to a tendon, and you don’t remove that bone spur, it’s going to continue to irritate that tendon until it’s taken care of.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 1, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is “once that became clear”. They had initially believed he’d be out for 2 weeks… you don’t risk surgery for that. He even came back to play. The problem was in the recovery, especially after playing. I think that’s when they really could tell that the bone spurs will be a problem. By then I don’t think surgery was really a realistic option to bring KG back for the playoffs.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 1, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On top of that, he lied to the fans after just to secure those playoff tickets.
by Adrigol6 on Jun 1, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You guys are crying about nothing. So they weren’t very clear about the nature of the injury… big deal. You could easily put 2 and 2 together to know what was going on with KG. The thing is that when they talked about it, they simply said “it’s a posibility this is what is going on”….“maybe this is what is going on”. Were they misleading and kept information from us? Sure. Did they straightout lie to us? Really no. You need to learn how to read in between the line.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 1, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Kg had surgery to remove the bone spur right away, we would be in the NBA Finals right now. That my friend is the bottom line. Instead of admitting he screwed up, WYC is now looking like a baffoon by trying to defend himself. He’s foooling noone.
by Adrigol6 on Jun 1, 2009 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At the time they had no reason to remove the bone spur. Sorry, but you’re talking nonsense in this regard.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 1, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hArD
people are being extremely hard on wyc here…it’s amazing to me.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
by mcpu40 on Jun 1, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hard on the fans
I think Wyc is stretching the truth a little here. I’m a season ticket holder, and something happened in April that made it clear the team knew more than it was saying. For the first time ever, I got a letter announcing that no refunds were allowed for the playoffs or next years season tickets. In 10 years, I have never gotten a letter warning against trying to cancel playoff tickets or get a refund on a deposit for season tickets. tAs soon as I got the letter, I knew KG wasn’t going to play during the playoffs…
4 days later they announced that KG would not play for the playoffs.
Maybe there was a little gamesmanship there, but I believe that all the KG misinformation in April was about one thing: selling tickets. With the economy like it is, I think they were doing everything they could to get the season ticket holders to pick up the playoff tickets (which were significantly more expensive than last year).
It’s business, but a little more honesty with the people who buy the tickets would have gone a long way.
by AboutMoney on Jun 1, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One of the components of the 2008 "Dream Season"
was a feeling that everyone - fans, players, management, past legends - were on the same ride. An incident like this kinda puts the kibosh on that sweet illusion, and that’s more than just a little sad, in my opinion.
Wyc and the ownership made a mistake. I’m willing to look the other way because I think they’ve built up a good degree of “capital” with the machinations that brought KG and Ray here in the first place, but I hope that Wyc will learn a lesson from this and that we won’t see this type of tomfoolery again.
by Hal Jordan on Jun 1, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
misinformation
As I recall, Orlando spent their initial time watching film of KG. They believed that he was such a significant factor, they prepared as if he would be there.
by Bozo on Jun 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did it help?
I was not expecting the series to be as close as it was. Without KG, the celts barely got past Chicago. The misinformation may have caused Orlando to prepare for a with & without KG.
by Bozo on Jun 1, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like disinformation
Especially in the annual silly season leading up to the draft, I expect and appreciate a little good, old-fashioned disinformation. It’s part of the game. True, this was some in-season disinformation, but it seems naive to think a sports team has to be candid with its fans at all times. It’s only a game.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
by Eeyore III on Jun 1, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A "no comment" would have sufficed...
Or a “we don’t know if he can come back”. Instead, the team promised the fans that he’d be playing in the playoffs, until just after all playoff ticket strips had been purchased. To me, I have to question the team’s motivations.
Again, I can’t remember a similar charade by Belichick, ever. He simply doesn’t talk about injuries in the media. That’s how it should be left. Any misinformation should be spread behind closed doors.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
“no comment” would have been appropriate.
by Hal Jordan on Jun 1, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coach B. would never admit this publicly.
Very badly played, sorry to say. BTW, what they are saying about KG is exactly what I have been saying for three months. Once I heard he had a spur, I knew the tendon was being aggravated by the spur. I’ve had to live with this with my wife for twenty years. What’s really annoying is that if they knew all this, they should have scoped it out ASAP and KG might have been ready for the playoffs. Badly played all the way wound here.
by The Real Large James 2 on Jun 1, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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