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When Should Rondo's Contract Be Extended?

When should Rondo get a new deal?

More photos » by Winslow Townson - AP

When should Rondo get a new deal?

Rajon Rondo has developed into one of the best point guards in the league after just 3 seasons.  He's not a finished product by any means.  He's inconsistent and still needs to develop a decent mid-range jumpshot.  But he's got all the tools you need to be a star at arguably the most critical position on the floor.

He's still under his rookie contract, but that ends after next season.  The Celtics have the option of extending his contract now (which would kick in next offseason) or wait till next summer.  If they wait, he'll be a restricted free agent - which we know means we can match any offer.

Sunday, when Ainge was asked about it, he indicated that a decision wouldn't be coming any time soon.

"Those are issues we’re not going to deal with until probably September and October, but definitely not in the summer," Ainge said of Rondo and Allen. "Our priority is to get this team situated for next year."

It is hard to hear that and not wonder about various trade rumors we've been hearing involving Ray Allen and Rondo.  Any team dealing for either player would want to negotiate with the players on their own terms after aquiring them.  But for the purposes of this discussion we're going to assume that Rondo is still a member of the Celtics for the next year and the Boston brass has every intention of extending his contract.

For the purposes of this column we decided to try something different.  I'll take one side of the debate and Roy Hobbs will take the other side.  Read the debate after the jump.

Star-divide

Negotiate an Extension this Offseason - Jeff Clark

I say lock him up as soon as possible in order to save money and cap space later.  I feel like he's only going to get better next season and the price tag is only going to go up from here.

The list of players I'd trade Rondo for is short and distinguished.  That doesn't mean he should get superstar money (yet).  He averaged a near triple double in the Bulls series but he had some forgettable games in both the first and second round - highlighting his inconsistency issues.  So despite the ring on his finger and the impressive progress he's made, his agent is still negotiating based more on potential than production.  That is an opportunity for the Celtics to save some money.

Rondo is faced with the following choice: Take a little less guaranteed money now or take a risk by waiting a year and letting the market dictate his price.  I understand the draw of maximizing your earnings.  But if I was his adviser I'd recommend taking the sure thing now.

From the Celtics perspective, there's plenty of risk in waiting too.  Say he develops as I expect him to and he makes his first All Star team.  There are teams out thee building lots of cap space that won't get LeBron or Wade or Bosh and they might just be looking to spend the money on a young, All Star point guard.  The Celtics can match any offer but a bidding war could drive his cost way up. 

Plus there's also the messy game that agents and GMs play in the media.  GMs try to keep the price low by telling all teams that they'll match any offer.  Agents try to entice other teams into bidding by any means necessary - sometimes by driving a wedge between the team and the player.  Sometimes it gets so messy that the player pleads publicly to the team to let him go - and when they match the offer, it makes it uncomfortable for everyone.  Not saying for sure that would happen with Rondo, but why take the chance?

Sooner or later, Rondo is going to become a very rich man.  Chances are he's going to make something north of $10M a year.  I can only see his price going up next summer so lock him in now while you still can.

Negotiate an Extension Next Summer - Roy Hobbs


The number one reason not to give Rondo an extension this summer?  That's easy:  Rondo's agent wants it to happen.  It's easy to see why.  Rondo is coming off one of the best playoff stints for a point guard ever, having averaged 16.9 points, 9.7 rebounds, and 9.8 assists combined against the Bulls and Magic.  His value, it stands to figure, is also at an all-time high.  Indeed, rumors leaked out of Sacramento place his value at at least a top-five draft pick and another young starting-caliber player.  Numbers and value like that probably puts Rondo's asking price closer to Chris Paul and Deron Williams territory (roughly $13 million or more per season)  than it does to Jose' Calderon ($7.4 million last season) or T.J. Ford ($8 million), players Rondo was compared to prior to the playoffs.  Anybody who plays the stock market will tell you that it makes absolutely no sense to buy a stock when it is at its peak value. 

I understand the argument made by Jeff and others that teams that aren't able to sign Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Amare', et. al. will look to Rondo.  Obviously, a lot of teams could have money to spend.  However, would Rondo be a good fit for those teams?  Not necessarily.  For instance, many of the teams expected to be active in free agency already have starting point guards; Cleveland has Mo Williams, New Jersey has Devin Harris, Houston has Aaron Brooks, etc.  Other teams with space wouldn't be a great fit for Rondo; for instance, Miami in all likelihood is going to sign Wade, and Rondo would be a terrible fit next to him.  Also, of course, Rondo won't be the only "fall back" free agent on the market; Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Lamarcus Aldridge, Ray Allen, Brad Miller, Josh Howard, Tracy McGrady, Rudy Gay, Jermaine O'Neal, Richard Jefferson, Michael Redd, Steve Nash, Shaq, Manu Ginobili, Andrea Bargnani, and Patrick O'Bryant all can be free agents that off-season.  There's only so much money to go around, and there's no guarantee that Rondo will be the first choice of many teams.  Lastly, even if Rondo does sign an offer sheet with another team next season, the Celtics have the option of simply matching any deal he agrees to. 

Really, there is very little risk in declining to extend Rondo.  Some might ask, "What if Rondo forgoes restricted free agency and decides to become an unrestricted free agent in 2011"?  Well, in that circumstance the Celtics would have Rondo under their control for a very reasonable $3,018,783 salary next season.  That would save the team a ton of money next year, allowing them to stay well below the luxury tax.  This cost savings would potentially be used to upgrade the team in other areas.  The following year, the Celtics would still hold Rondo's Bird rights and would be in the best position to give Rondo a contract, as they'd be able to offer more years, bigger raises, and more money than any other team.  Again, whatever risk there is to the Celtics is very small.

On the other hand, the risk of signing Rondo prematurely is fairly large.  First, should the Celtics sign Rondo to an extension this off-season, the Celtics would have no protection if Rondo got injured during the season; they'd still be on the hook for the entirety of his extension.  With Rondo's aggressive style of play -- which has him knocked to the floor seemingly three times per game -- injury is a very real consideration for the Celtics.  It makes sense, then, to minimize that risk by waiting another season before signing him.  Even beyond the risk of injury, however, there are other risks that come with extending a young player's contract.

For instance, another risk is that there are still question marks regarding Rondo's true value.  While Jeff focuses on the ability to potentially save money on a Rondo deal by signing him now, what if he's not as good as we think he is?  There's no doubt that he's a good player, definitely above-average as a point guard, almost certainly in the top-ten (and arguably in the top five) at his position.  However, he's not a superstar yet.  In fact, he's not even a star yet.  He's a borderline all-star player who is prone to extreme inconsistency.  For instance, Rondo shot at or above 50% from the field in four of the first five playoff games this post-season, and scored at least 19 points in all of those games.  In the next nine games, he shot as high as 50% only once, and only scored as many as 19 points twice. This follows his regular season pattern of performance:  he shot an amazing 55% or better in 34 out of 80 games, but a terrible 38.5% of lower in 20 contests.  As of right now, Rondo hasn't shown that he can be counted on for consistent performances.  Can the Celtics justify paying a hefty contract to a player who only excels roughly half of the time?

Related to consistency is Rondo's scoring.  As Doc Rivers recently said, "at the point guard level you have to be able to score".  Out of a total of 80 regular season games played, Rondo scored in single figures in 36 of them (with five or fewer points in 18 of those games). That means that in 45% of all games played Rondo failed to score in double digits, with Rondo scoring a pedestrian five points or fewer in a whopping 22.5% of all games.  That seems like an extraordinarily high number of low-scoring performances for a player people are mentioning in the same breath as Chris Paul and Deron Williams.  Indeed, Chris Paul scored in double digits in 75 out of 77 regular season games (and never fewer than nine points), Deron Williams scored 10+ in 61 out of 67 games (and two of those sub-par games were while he was coming back from injury), and Derek Rose scored that amount in 71 out of 81 contests.  In fact, no player who is mentioned among the near-elite point guards in the NBA came close to Rondo's percentage of sub-double digit performances.  Again, until Rondo starts showing a greater level of consistency with his scoring, it makes sense to hold off on paying him an elite-level salary.  What if he doesn't turn the proverbial corner?

Of course, scoring goes hand-in-hand with shooting, and as we all know, Rondo is a poor shooter.  How poor?  He finished the year with the second lowest eFG% on jumpers of any starting point guard in the NBA; only Russell Westbrook, a rookie, was slightly worse.  The popular refrain among Celtics fans seems to be "yeah, but he's getting better".  Is he?  This season, Rondo's eFG% on jumpers, points scored off of jumpers, and percentage of total shots that were jumpers all decreased significantly.  While he hit more three pointers this year, overall he took fewer shots from outside of 15 feet, and shot a lower percentage on those shots than he did last season.  I don't think it's fair, then, to assume that Rondo will automatically improve his game next season. 

And why hasn't Rondo improved?  Well, that brings us to the most contentious issue in the debate over giving Rondo an extension: "character issues".  Now, when people talk about character, they're generally referring to a player's criminal rap sheet.  However, character also involves traits such as work ethic, leadership, intensity, etc.  On the issue of Rondo's shooting, the following quote is instructive:

Rondo is often compared with Tony Parker, another late-first-round pick, who guided the San Antonio Spurs to the 2003 championship even though he lacked a reliable jumper. Whereas Parker overhauled his technique and has developed into a long-range marksman, Rondo intends to change nothing.

"I'm set in my ways," says Rondo, who believes his accuracy will improve with practice. "I don't feel like I have to settle for a jump shot, because I can get to the basket at will."

One wonders whether that stubbornness will get in the way of Rondo improving at the rate that he should.   As Doc recently said, "The playoffs will always be the toughest part for Rondo, because they'll always put it on him to make shots".  Since that's the case, what does it say about Rondo if he's too stubborn to improve his form?  Additionally, last season Rondo didn't "pick up a ball" from Game 6 of the Finals until early August. Was that a factor in his poor shooting this year?

Also, Rondo has admitted that he thinks he knows more than Doc Rivers at times, stating "I've learned to handle it a little bit better ... even though I think I'm right."  This is nothing new; throughout his career, Rondo has clashed with coaches and teammates.  Doc Rivers has described Rondo as "moody", and indicated that at one time Rondo's teammates "hated" playing with him.  In the playoffs, Doc noted that Rondo's failure to play "with speed" was holding the team back.   Recently, Danny Ainge said that "sometimes [Rondo] doesn't understand what the team needs to be successful" and "The single biggest thing with him is getting him to compete night in and night out."  Lastly, of course, there is the issue of Rondo showing up approximately one hour before tip off in not one, but two playoff games (Games 1 and 7 of the Orlando series, two Celtics' losses in which Rondo played mediocre at best).  Are these major questions marks?  Frankly, probably not.  However, they're something that the team should sit back and observe for another year before paying Rondo like a franchise player.

Nobody is claiming that the Celtics should be down on Rondo.  However, with some open question marks about his game and his attitude, is there any reason to rush into an extension now?  Why not wait a year, until Rondo can put some of these criticisms to rest?  Another season's worth of evaluation time in this regard is certainly in the Celtics best interest.  For all of the above reasons, Danny should do the right thing and tell Rondo's agent "thanks but no thanks".

So what do you think?

Poll
When should Rondo's contract be extended?
This offseason
630 votes
Next summer
410 votes

1040 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 51 comments |

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Hmm...

Looks like one of us gets paid by the word. ;-)

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 8:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

brevity is the soul of wit

you and Bill Simmons are peas in a pod

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jun 15, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or, it shows that the facts are on my side...

No extension!

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on the $$$$

If you wait a year – most likely the contract will only increase – and we’d have to see what the new CBA bring.

I’d imagine Rondo’s agent will not want to sign this year. I think Rondo will also realize that this is a contract year – which is a great incentive for him to play well, which also helps us out – just not financially.

You have to approach Rondo and see what him and his agent are thinking – but if you’re Rondo- you have to be holding out on what you’d anticipate in the free agent market next off season, which will be huge.

by bob3698 on Jun 15, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rondo's agent...

… already said he wanted to work out an extension this off-season.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

votes

so Roy, if I get more votes, do I win?

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jun 15, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha...

Nope. We don’t have a control study to know what fans were thinking before our “debate”.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chuckle.

Excellent discussion, gentlemen, with good points on both sides. Hard question, actually, to offer a yes or no vote on.

Because … my perspective depends on price. I’d extend Rondo this summer at the right price, which in my opinion is south of $10 million a year.

Otherwise … given his inconsistency – of performance and of effort – I am extremely fearful of overpaying for potential lest we not see it develop.

I voted next season, for that reason.

by CoachBo on Jun 15, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

cost

that is an excellent point

so I added a poll on the left column for people to vote on

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jun 15, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm

I think he only can be better at the end of his contract but you never know. Everything can happen…

I asked god and he said: L.A. will lose again next year!! ^_°

by greenmech on Jun 15, 2009 8:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So I guess it's about money, injury, and character

I think he’s only going to be playing better come the next playoffs, so we should extend him now. The chances of him getting seriously injured is always there, but I think he’s gotten stronger every year since he’s entered the league, and has always bounced back from those scary looking falls. And if he does improve on his jumper, he should be less injury prone.

Great discussion of both sides of the issue. But Roy, on his character issues, don’t you think his “attitude” or “character issues” or whatever we fans want to call it, is changing? I think innate character is something that should be considered, but it’s not something that cannot be worked on, and I think Rondo has worked on it. Rondo is one of the most even-keeled players on the floor – his days of making faces and such after his team mates drop passes and miss shots are probably over. And what Rajon said about being set in his ways was from an SI article dated March 2, 2009. At the end of that month he offers advice to Russell Westbrook in an Oklahoma newspaper. I find this quote instructive, where Rondo indirectly acknowledges how he won’t always be able to get to the basket at will (this was the month where he seemed to sprained his ankle every other game).

“He shows the quickness that will allow him to lock up pretty much anybody if he stays with it, stays in the weight room and stays humble," Rondo said. "But it’s really just determination. That’s what separates a lot of the great defenders from the regular defenders."

Rondo advises Westbrook to continue working on his offensive repertoire rather than relying on his God-given quickness to get him what he wants on the court. A mid-range game, Rondo said, will be the most important aspect Westbrook could add. Rondo praised Westbrook’s effort in Sunday’s game.

“Just work on floaters. Work on the in-between game," Rondo said. "There’s going to come a point in time where he can’t always go to the rack. He’s going to have to stop and have an in-between game."

http://newsok.com/celtics-rajon-rondo-offers-up-advice-on-russell-westbrook/article/3357477

Rondo’s stubbornness isn’t that big of a problem because he is learning, as opposed to never changing. In my opinion, regarding when he should get an extension, Rondo’s “character issues” aren’t really issues, because his history shows that this is something that is progressing for the better.

by Pengaloo on Jun 15, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, for the sake of argument:

1) Talk is cheap. Rondo’s mid-range game was pretty terrible last year, as demonstrated by the shot chart linked to above. He needs to follow his own advice. In fact, as noted above, his shooting got worse this year; and

2) The most recent example we have is Game 7 of the Orlando series. There, he was the last member of the team to arrive.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rondo's shooting didn't really get worse

  Except in one narrow range. If you look at those shot charts, there are the inside shots and 3 "rings’ around that section. His inside shooting went from 54% to 57%, his three point shooting went from 29% to 31%, and his long 2-point shots went down less than 1%. The only difference was his short shots that went from 41% to 36%, but he only takes about 12% of his shots from that range anyways. He actually shot fewer shots from that range (and fewer long 2 point shots) and more threes and close twos so he’s become a more efficient scorer.

   Also, if you use those nba hotspot charts and not just the numbers from 82games his shooting doesn’t look so bad. His percentages (from inside extending to three pointers) are 57%, 36%, 45% and 29%. His numbers from last year were similar (54%, 41%, 45% and 29%) but, again, his overall percentage went from .492 to .505 (which was 2nd in the league). However, if you compare Rondo’s percentages (54%, 41%, 45% and 29%) to other top PGs the numbers aren’t as miserable as some claim: Paul (60%, 50%, 43% and 31%) is about the same from the outside as Rondo but better in close and mid-range. Williams (57%, 44%, 47% and 31%) is better from mid-range and the same for close and longer shots. Parker (60%, 30%, 46% and 29%) is awfully similar to Rajon. Billups (47%, 36%, 42% and 40%) is much better at threes but much worse at finishing around the hoop. Rondo takes fewer shots than the other four but his fg% is 2nd in the group, his adjusted fg% is 2nd in the group and his points per shot is 4th. Considering that the other four players are all older than Rondo and have all played at least 50% more minutes than he has I think it’s a little early to write him off as a shooter or scorer.

by BballTim on Jun 15, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regardless of the math...

… I think it’s enough that Rondo’s overall shooting percentage on jumpers ranked second to last among all NBA starting point guards. His shooting percentage was also down by a fairly significant margin from last year.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

disagree, sort of.

  The difference in Rondo’s shooting is much less than you make it out to be. Again, from the hotspots, the only of the four ranges that his percentage really dropped was the group just outside the “close” shots. If he’d have made a total of 5 more shots from that range his percentage would have been the same. If you recall, he started the season cold from the outside. That in itself was more than enough to cause the drop.

   But here are a few important points: If you average the percentages by zone for Parker, Billups, Paul and Williams you get 56%, 40%, 45% and 33%. Rondo was at 57%, 36%, 45% and 31%. And, again, if he’d made 4 more of those short 2s he’d have been at 40%. So, like it or not, for a given distance from the basket Rondo’s shooting percentage is well within the range of the best PGs in the league.

  Secondly, and more importantly, you have to consider where Rondo was shooting his 2 point jumpers from. Remember how I mentioned that he’d become a more efficient scorer? That’s because his percentage of jumpshots went down and his percentage of layups went up. In fact the actual number of 2 point jumpshots went down. But in 07-08 he shot about 65% of his shots in the 3rd zone (45%) and 35% from the 2nd zone (41%). Last year he shot about 56% of his shots from the 3rd zone (45%) and 46% from the 2nd zone (36%).

  If you look at the other PGs, Parker, Billups and Williams all shoot better from zone 3 than zone 2, and they shoot between 65% and 75% of their shots from zone 3. Paul shoots better in zone 2 and he takes the bulk of his shots from zone 2. So Rondo shot as well (more or less) than the other PGs, but his his shot selection needs work. Ironically, the reason that his jump shooting percentage went down is related to the reason his overall shooting percentage went up. He took more threes and took it to the hole instead of taking those outside shots. Kind of puts
   “I’m set in my ways,” says Rondo, who believes his accuracy will improve with practice. “I don’t feel like I have to settle for a jump shot, because I can get to the basket at will.”
  in a different (less negative) light. Which brings me to my final point, that people are using this as a shining example of how Rondo’s lazy, has a bad attitude and shows no interest in improving his game.

by BballTim on Jun 15, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To reiterate, for anybody who didn't read the novella-length post:

1. There’s very little risk to waiting;

2. Rondo’s value is very high right now, and there’s no guarantee— or perhaps even likelihood — that it will ever go higher;

3. Rondo is an inconsistent young player who has flaws in his game that actually got worse, not better, this season;

4. There are some legitimate concerns about Rondo’s “character issues”;

5. Rondo is an injury risk;

6. Even if Rondo hits free agency, the Celtics are by far in the best position to resign him.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 9:30 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually...

1. There is a risk to waiting, namely that some team who strikes out on Lebron and Wade in 2010 and then targets Rondo as their fall back option, and signs him to a max deal offer sheet.
2. Rondo’s gotten better each season and at age 23, he’s bound to get better for at least 2 more seasons. If his playoff run is any indication, he’s just scratching the surface of his potential. It’s almost a virtual lock that’s he has a better 09-10 then 08-09, and thus increases his bargaining power and potentially puts more salary on this team’s books.
3. It’s debate-able how ‘worse’ Rondo’s flaws got. It seems to me that Rondo’s shooting #s once KG went out…
4. Almost all young players can be characterized with ‘character issues.’ Anyone who remembers Pierce’s early years can attest to that. Any issue Rondo might have will be corrected with time…
5. All players are an injury risk. I can’t even believe this made the list.
6. Yes, we can give him the most money when he hits free agency. But why not lock him up for cheaper this summer?

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jun 15, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You didn't read the article, did you?

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, I posted the conclusions w/o any support--just like you

1. The risk to waiting is real. Roy says the teams that strike out on Lebron/Wade might not be good fits for Rondo. But, instead of listing the bad fits (of which they are many), it might be more worthwhile to mention the good fits, since it only takes ONE team to offer Rondo the max. For example, the Knicks would be a great fit if they can’t get Lebron; in fact, Rondo could average a triple double in that system. Other fits can be made as well, if only after the fact..
2. Rondo’s value won’t get any higher than it is now? What, exactly, points to that conclusion? The guy’s 23 and has been improving steadily the last 3 seasons. Beyond the physical improvements (a consistent jumper, for example), there will also be mental improvements as well (better knowledge of game situations, better focus, etc.), not to mention the fact that point guards often take 5 years+ before they really mature. Other than becoming ‘injury-prone’ all of a sudden (which cannot be predicted), there is no reason he shouldn’t continue to improve, in some manner, for at least the next 5 years.
3. Rondo’s flaws got worse? I think Tim covered that nicely above. Plus, your breakdown of double figure scoring efforts missed the mark—Rondo’s primary job is to distribute the ball and play defense. He scores when called upon, but he can dominate the game without scoring a single point. In games where he dominates without scoring, is it fair to criticize him for inconsistent scoring ability. It’d be one thing if his team NEEDED him to score (as Paul must, or Williams), but this team doesn’t? It’s not like he’s playing like Devin Harris, taking every shot that shows and doing nothing to make his teammates better…
4. Character issues: Danny and Doc know the real nature of his character. What we hear repeated in the media does not give us an accurate picture of his character, but I’ll stick with the truism: almost all young people have ‘character issues,’ in some way or another. What matters is how their progressing and whether the youngster in question realizes the need to steadily improve. In Rondo’s case, he’s aware of his moody rep and he’s progressed nicely in his maturation away from it.
5. Injury-risk? I’ll grant you he plays hard and that he falls down a lot. But that doesn’t make him an injury risk. Risks are defined by the past—and Rondo’s injury history is pretty clean so far. Think about Iverson—he plays just as recklessly as Rondo, takes just as many falls (or more) and he’s escaped major injury for most of his career.
6. We can give him the most money—but we shouldn’t rest on that fact. The bottom line remains unchanged: signing him this summer presents the best chance to get signed long term on a reasonable contract. Wait a year or two and we might be looking at max contract territory.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jun 15, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rondo's value will go up.

  His value was higher after the Chicago series than the Orlando series, but I’d be pretty surprised if his game didn’t improve quite a bit from last year to next season. His visibility has increased, so he’ll get more consideration for things like the all-star team. He’s 23, he’s only started for two years and he’s improved significantly. I doubt his game is going to stagnate or regress.

by BballTim on Jun 15, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sign him now. make him happy. i think a more secure player is a better player. he is what he is and we have prospered with him. i don’t blame him for the loss to orlando. no kg or powe. get 1-2 primo backups.

by nazzbo on Jun 15, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's what Mark Blount said...

;-)

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patrick O'Bryant?

“Also, of course, Rondo won’t be the only “fall back” free agent on the market; Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Lamarcus Aldridge, Ray Allen, Brad Miller, Josh Howard, Tracy McGrady, Rudy Gay, Jermaine O’Neal, Richard Jefferson, Michael Redd, Steve Nash, Shaq, Manu Ginobili, Andrea Bargnani, and Patrick O’Bryant all can be free agents that off-season. "

Seriously Roy? Patrick O’Bryant? That reeks of desperation using POB as a reason Rondo won’t be able to get his $ in free agency. A lot of those other names won’t command the money Rondo would get either. Many are in decline. Maybe Johnson, Roy and Aldridge get bigger paydays or courted more heavily than Rondo but no one else. Jefferson and Gay cancel each other out. Everyone else is down a notch or two (or several). Also, only Nash is a PG so that’s also in Rondo’s favor.

I’m not even sure you could really consider Rondo a ‘fallback’. If he gets a midrange shot this year, he’s a primetime target for another team. Not Bron, Bosh or Wade level, but a prime target nonetheless.

by slamtheking on Jun 15, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

joke

pretty sure Roy threw that name in there to be funny

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jun 15, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

didn't help his case any

obviously the two of you didn’t compare notes before posting your arguments (or you know you’re on the right side of the argument so few words are needed ;-) )

by slamtheking on Jun 15, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually

I think we both see each other’s side of the arguement but we wanted to take sides and support our views

ultimately I think it does depend on the price – if his agent demanded max money now, I’d tell him to wait till next year

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jun 15, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep...

Obviously, every Celtics fan on this board (or, 99.9% of them, anyway) would like to see Rondo sign an extension if he agrees to a reasonable deal (akin to the Perk contract).

However, a “Should we sign Rondo? Only if the money is right” article isn’t as fun.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it would be shorter though

;)

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jun 15, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As Jeff said...

… I thought it was a fairly obvious joke, in a “one of these names doesn’t belong here” sort of way. Sorry you didn’t find it to be funny.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's funny

didn’t catch the humor until Jeff pointed it out and then I went ‘duh’.

by slamtheking on Jun 15, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Value

Does he have more or less trade value if he’s extended?

I voted next year.

by Little D on Jun 15, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would think less

unless he’s signed for a bargain price

teams generally want the ability to negotiate their own terms (see Big Al who signed shortly after being traded to the T-Wolves)

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jun 15, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Value

Maybe that’s Danny’s plan.

by Little D on Jun 15, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully, he`s just seeking security...

If he wants “security”…sign him now for a reasonable price.
If he wants to “break the bank”…let him test the water a year from now.

On a scale of 1 to 10…most Celtic fans think he`s a 10, but he`s a 7 at best.

by Title 18 on Jun 15, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How about the case for trading him?

I’m for shipping him out. I’ll give him one more season to win it again with a healthy KG
and roll the dice. If he wins another ring, in the words of Teddy KGB…“Pay de man his money”

If the Cowboys could only play like a team with passion and unity like my beloved
Boston Celtics, I would be happy.

by Captain Comeback on Jun 15, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Next Summer

I’m with you Roy. In fact, after reading your side of the debate, I’m more convinced than ever that he’s going to be a disapointment to a lot of fans who have him widely overrated right now. It sounds like the attitude is going to get in the way of improvement.

by celty86 on Jun 15, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I want Ainge to have the Celtics` best interests in mind, which is certainly the case.

Personally, I have to side with Roy. I love to watch Rondo when he`s good, but it`s just not smart to give him an extension now when his value is at it`s peak, and there are question marks about his development.

by Casperian on Jun 15, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks like Wyc is on the "Roy side", as well...

… at least if he’s serious about exploring signing a max free agent next summer.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The only thing Wyc proved in that interview...

Is that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about…

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jun 15, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Better chance at getting Rondo on a discount this summer than next summer.

Of course, if his agent is demanding too much money, the C’s should walk away from the negotiations and wait until next summer. No point in paying now if they aren’t going to get a discount.

by Who on Jun 15, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

way to tear down rondo

after reading roy’s post I’m wondering if PG is the Celtics primary need this offseason. How can the C’s win with Rondo?

I get Roy’s main crux of the agreement and could of agreed with it, if it didn’t read as a hack job on the kid.

I don’t buy the “character issues” at all, younger players with better pedigrees have fallen apart under less pressure than Rondo has the past two years. Because he and Doc disagree doesn’t mean he’s a potential headcase or cancer. To suggest this as a reason not to extend him is ludicrous in my opinion.

As far as his game goes, he’s a lousy jump shooter, lousy ft shooter, and an average finisher. That said, he’s improved his game each year he’s been in the league. Rondo’s play was a primary reason why the C’s were only 4 wins off from the championship year beforehand. You always take risks signing young players to large deals, but I don’t see Rondo dogging it after getting paid. I expect him to get better.

What I do agree with Roy is financial flexibilty in 2010, with the right moves Danny can extend the window of the celtics, and having Rondo at the qualifying offer would allow the c’s to possibly make a splash.

Of course I’m under the belief that Rondo is a big part of the future, so if they can sign him to a contract similar to Devin Harris’ contract, I’d do it this year. If Rondo has another good year, then he’ll command Deron Williams type money, take the hit this year and trade Ray Allen at the deadline for the future.

by lowfatalbob on Jun 15, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind, I was advocating a position...

Everything included was true, but it doesn’t mean that I believe the kid is garbage. He does, however, have at least a few question marks.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 15, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who doesn't have question marks?

i know with sports arguments they generally denegrate into bashing the other side to contrast your POV, so I understand what you wrote and why you did it. It doesn’t make you right though. Cherry picking a couple of quotes and instances and characterizing them as “character issues” doesn’t make it “true” . That’s subjective and it helps your case.

I can agree with your argument if it was solely based on financial ramifications and concerns about his potential health, but the instances regarding his character you cited just come across as weak to me.

by lowfatalbob on Jun 15, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think they’re weak at all. They are all documented, and all of them are going to be very concerning to a coach.

It appears the FO is weighing them, and I applaud them for taking an honest – not fan-based – look at Rondo’s game.

by CoachBo on Jun 15, 2009 8:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If the FO takes an honest

 not fan-biased look at Rondo’s game they’ll ignore the bulk of the “documented” attacks.

by BballTim on Jun 15, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh, no.

They’ll see factors that cannot or aren’t statistically measured, although some can be.

I believe it was Ainge who said Rondo doesn’t compete every night – which is absolutely correct. His effort isn’t consistent and his defense is overrated by the fans in love with him. I don’t see much honesty, frankly, in trying to construct statistics to defend a poor jump shooter whose effort isn’t consistent enough or intelligent enough on either end of the floor.

I see fans who won’t admit their favorite is flawed.

That’s not what Ainge is paid to do. The criticism of Rondo is justified. He is not a star – yet – and he doesn’t deserve to be paid like one. If he wants eight digits, I say move him.

by CoachBo on Jun 15, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

more to the point

  His defense is “overrated” by nba coaches, GMs and advanced scouts. I’m sure, according to you, that I can turn on most any nba game on tv next year and see a better defensive pg than Rondo, right?

  Gotta love having someone who spent an entire season attacking Ainge for being cheap because he wouldn’t pay an aging backup wing $6.5M a year in a long term deal but wouldn’t think of giving a few million more to a 23 year old PG who’s improving rapidly and who’s already one of the better PGs in the league.

 Everybody has favorites, it seems.

by BballTim on Jun 15, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

roy’s assessment of rondo’s shooting, injury risk and financial flexability are all spot on and honest, and it makes for a strong argument that the c’s should wait until 2010 to extend rondo, I’m not qubbiling with his criticism of rondo’s game.

i categorically disagree that the so called “attitude” problems are “well documented”, the kid is 23 years old and just finished his 3rd year in the NBA. He missed 5 games in the past two years where his team won 128 games. He may clash at times with Doc Rivers, but a lot of players clash with their coach, I don’t believe that he’s the potiential head case that was propagated in Roy’s original’s piece.

If he was/is, why should the celtics keep him?

by lowfatalbob on Jun 15, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sign him next year

The one thing that was ignored was the possibility of a sign and trade of Rondo if he wants more then the Celtics are willing to pay him.

by Wide Load on Jun 15, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Are sign and trades really worthwhile?

  Most teams get back riff-raff and flotsam in those deals, less than what we traded for KG minus BiG Al for an all-star. If they sign him to a smaller contract this year than he’d be looking for next year he’d have more value in a trade. For instance, would you rather trade for Chris Paul and pay him $15M or trade for Chris Paul if he was locked into a long term deal at $11M per year?

by BballTim on Jun 15, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are the #s?

What does Rondo want $$$ wise and for how many years? What are Celts willing to give Rondo? Until we have some figures to actually work with, it is hard to say what’s best.

And is there a consensus on what both sides will do after this year. Rondo’s best FT was his rookie year. If he continues to flounder under 65% and continue relatively poor outside shooting, how realisitic is he willing to come down off his demands. Like wise if he hits 75% or so from the line with a very respectable outside improving game, how open is Wyc’s checkbook?

I don’t put much credence in the Chris Paul/Rondo/Ray trade rumor but I do that deal in a heartbeat if it was realistic.

by brianceltfan on Jun 15, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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