Greatest Players of the "Post-Jordan era" (1997-2009/10) work in progress

hey… i tried to be as objective as possible but, i do bleed green and white, had to put in a little homerism…. who voted other and who could possibly be above duncan, shaq, or kobe

just added c-webb to the bottom of tier four… good suggestion knew i forgot somebody

added c-webb and dropped antoine walker to the bottom 6/17/09

read the requirements, essentially the whole point of this list is 25 years from now i think that people will look back at the last 13 years as the bridge in between jordan and lebron. I compared it to the 1970’s in how they are now passed over and looked at as just the bridge between Russell/Wilt and Bird/Magic, even though Jordan was only drated five or six years after bird and magic his airness’ era was 88-98, at least in my eyes.

its very confusing to me that anyone would have an answer other than duncan shaq or kobe, but if you do please at least say who and if you could explain because am very curious who that would be

I have no arguments putting Duncan ahead of Kobe or Shaq, it’s hard to compare truly great players of different positions and circumstances, but if it means anything, Duncan is the greatest power forward ever on my own list. But I would personally put Kobe ahead of Shaq. Kobe may have taken noted games or quarters off, and he may have done some pretty dumb off the court things, but Shaq has taken entire months off, and is at least partially responsible for the Kobe/Shaq feud circus that’s hung over LA for the past 7 years. Combined with showing up to camp out of shape and holding off surgery until right before training camp, his unwillingness to show up as a professional ready for work would hold him off “tier 1” category altogether, had it not been for his aforementioned utter dominance in that short time span.

I also have a few comments regarding the list itself.

What’s with the “has to be drafted after 2001” requirement? I don’t really see the significance other than that it limits the pool of great players, and ignores the other factors that (being an avid basketball fan from 1998-2009) I’d personally consider in putting together such a list. For example, here are some of the biggest things involving some of the greatest players of the decade and are nowhere to be found on this list, if anything solely because they weren’t drafted before a specific time:

Wade winning a championship in 2006, playing some of the greatest basketball of his career, and better basketball than several of the guys on this list have ever played (regardless of ref-bias)

Pau Gasol being traded to the Lakers, single handedly changing LA from pretenders to contenders (25 years from now, I’m still going to remember this trade as being one of the biggest robberies since Ocean’s 11). Completely changed the Lakers’ outlook of this particular era of basketball, much like Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett did to Boston.

Tony Parker being completely unstoppable in the paint by anybody despite being short and French. He’s a three time champ and one of the quickest guys of this decade, and he’ll have no place on this list because he was drafted after 2000? And no offense to him as a player, but it’s hard to imagine him winning more than 4 in the coming decade, either. Does he not belong to any list, then?

Chris Paul having one of the greatest point guard seasons in history. I understand that there may be even bigger things to come after 2009, but already he took a crap team to the playoffs twice, made a mediocre coach look like CoY material, and is pretty much an All-Star shoe in. If he were to suddenly suffer a career ending injury right now and do nothing else in his career, already I’d put him ahead of Mike Bibby on my unbiased, 1998-2009 only, greatest players list.

All of these players will (and I’m not trying to discount their future accomplishments) arguably have had their biggest, most memorable impact between 1998 and 2009. I can’t imagine any of them (save for Wade) to have a bigger impact in the coming decade, and even then, what guarantees that Wade’s future career accomplishments aren’t going to be overshadowed by the younger more durable James? I love watching the NBA, and because of that I fear that Wade’s already peaked. He’s 27, just entering his “prime years,” and already he’s had so many injury plagued seasons that they’re talking about reducing his regular season minutes to save him for the playoffs

Also, what’s with the “black marks” this list gives to only certain players and not others? Trying to be objective as possible (because that’s what gives these such lists validity), why don’t any Celtic players have “Black marks?” Garnett has never choked in crunch time? Paul Pierce has never had a meltdown that nearly cost them a playoff game and series? Ray Allen has choked in how many series or played in how many finals before being traded to Boston? Antoine-freaking-Walker shot how many threes? These black marks don’t do justice to even the other players who don’t have them. If you’re going to list em, list em all. No player is perfect, I’ll even do it for you:
Duncan- went from being a near 80% free throw shooter to 60%. Could never lead a team to a repeat, for some reason.
Iverson- where to begin? The epitome of an ‘underdog,’ but also the epitome of a ‘selfish player.’ Starting to gain the ‘can never be on a championship team’ title. Practice!?
Kidd- Wife beater. “Shot” himself in the foot during several big games of his career, while wearing the “pretender” tag all the way to the Finals, where he was swept one season by the Lakers. Wore the pretender tag again and was defeated in 6 games by the Spurs (seriously, did anyone believe the Nets would win those years?).
Shaq- played fat, lazy, uninspired basketball half the time. Could not hit his free throws even if it’d make him the best center of all time. Won half the titles he was capable of winning, was/is involved in petty arguments.
T-Mac- hahaha
Sheed- huge headcase. He’s remember just as much for Portland’s collapse against the Lakers and his leaving Horry for a wide open 3 as he is remembered for his days as a Piston. Will probably be remembered even more for his techs and his bald spot.
Vince- will probably make it to the Hall of Fame for his dunking ability and really nothing else… really
Bibby- one of the best players during this era to have never made an all star appearance. That said, he’s never made an all star appearance.
Wallace- An overrated defender and an even worse free throw shooter than Shaq. Received an overrated contract as a result and spent his post-Pistons days crippling other teams playing “he’s just past his prime” basketball.
Jermaine- What’s he done that a guy like Elton Brand, Gilbert Arenas, Steve Francis, Joe Johnson, and Tony Parker havent? He had one really good season that ended in (surprise surprise) an injury.
 
Thirdly, it’s kind of hard to judge players on a list specifically talking about a certain decade but at the same time excludes players based on their age? In my opinion, LeBron has already surpassed Antoine Walker in career achievements regardless of whether we’re counting the things LeBron has yet to do. Dwyane Wade has already done more (and will be remembered more during these 10 years) in his incomplete career than Webber has during his entire NBA career. Like with with Paul and Bibby.

And what’s with 2009 being the end of the era anyway? Nothing happened in 2009 that marked the end of anything, outside of maybe the end of the Spurs Era. I’d have to go with ‘other,’ swap Shaq and Kobe, and replace most of the guys from 11-20 with post-2000 draft players, because in all honesty, many of them were just more memorable in this past decade.

the cut off’s next year because thats the end of the decade, every body and there mother has had the whose the best player of this generation discussion. But thats a tricky question because one first must decide what that era is and where it began and when it will end. Instead most of the public and media have been having grand generalized discussions with no parameters. Well im saying the parameters are between “The Shot 2.0 against utah and the end of next year.” Why, because most of the players from said years are getting older, and passing the magical 1000 games plateu. The Celtics and Lakers in my opinion really only have one year left in their windows, sorry but kobe basically sacrificed the back two years of his career for these last 2 years, bill simmons laid it out pretty good, that he played waaay to much baskeball, and if the Celts are competing for titles after next year it will because of some magic by danny and new blood and rondo as the most important player. Great point about D-Wade, but i got more confidence in him having a back end to his career than you do it seems. Tony Parker didn’t become tony parker till midway through the 05 playoffs, in fact he was even a little bit of a liabillty for his inabillity to hit a jumper. And lastly why do some players have black marks and others don’t—- SIMPLE ANSWER I GOT LAZY AND I HATE KOBE BRYANT AND HE DOESN"T GET ANYWHERE NEAR ENOUGH CRAP FOR LAST YEARS FINALS.( there should never ever ever been any comparisons of him and mj right after game 4, let alone game 6) …It took a while, had to do some research and simply put didn’t feel like doing anymore. Elton Brand- great suggestion, belongs on the list. But question for you— 25 years from now you going to be telling your kids about elton brand toiling away on bad clippers teams, or Rasheed Wallace and the pistons playoff battles— Jermaine’s on because he was very very good when not hurt, but has a top 5 most memorable video clip from this era…. it involves him a running start and a 300 pound short white guy……. great points all around appreciate the comments, but read the preface again hopefully you’ll get a better idea of what i was trying to accomplish

the guy was great for us, helped a whole generation of celtics fans fall in love with the team… he might not belong on this list for other teams fan bases but you can be damn sure that 25 years from now i’ll be telling my kids about antoine walker…. but for the list’s sake i’ll say that every fan base gets #20 for their own atoine…. for la maybe it’s fisher, for san antonio maybe it’s bowen, etc

…for Kevin Garnett. I understand your criteria is accolade-based, but when I look total picture I think Garnett did as much/more with less than those in front of him. The fact that Duncan, Shaq and Kobe got to play with Hall-of-fame teammates in their youth/prime while KG didn’t get his until his 30s shouldn’t, IMO, be what gets him put into a lower tier as an individual player. There are exactly 4 players in this generation with an MVP and a championship: Duncan, Shaq, Garnett and Kobe. There are exactly 22 such players in NBA history. At the very least, I think all 4 of the current members of that class should go on the top tier together.