More Ray, Rondo Rumors
by Roy_Hobbs on Jun 22, 2009 11:49 PM EDT
in Boston Celtics Rumors
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Take it for whatever it's worth, but Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting that Rondo and Ray were offered to the Pistons :
The Boston Celtics appear willing to make major roster changes to balance a chance for a championship run and future financial flexibility.
The Celtics offered Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo to the Detroit Pistons for a package that included Richard Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
Boston general manager Danny Ainge and Detroit’s Joe Dumars never spoke, but rather the Celtics had a lower-level executive make the pitch to a Pistons official over the past weekend, league sources said. Detroit immediately rejected the idea, and it never advanced to the two top executives speaking about particulars.
If true, I understand the Celtics motivation, in that they'd be getting back two all-stars and a developing point guard for Ray and Rondo. However, I have my doubts about Stuckey, especially when compared to the upside of Rondo. If there's any truth to this rumor, we may be lucky that Detroit turned it down.
Update: Kelly Dwyer examines this deal from Detroit's perspective, and says that they're fools to turn it down.
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Hat tip to Cman
… for posting this in the forums.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Don't like Stuckey at the PG...
and I think you have to choose sides in the Ray Allen v Hamilton battle. I find myself firmly behind Ray and thus (in a basketball sense) despise Rip.
glad this deal went nowhere.
damn
i wouldnt mind that trade.
we can never seem to stop stuckey when we play the pistons too. prince is a good defender. we can push pierce to SG and have hamilton off the bench.
no way detroit does this del though…..
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jun 23, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions
were Doc and Danny so unhappy with our starting backcourt...
that they would trade it for two aging all-stars and an overhyped combo guard? Our starting 5 is the best in the league, I can’t believe they would consider trading 2/5 of it unless they get back a big time young superstar, and stuckey aint even close
Has Prince ever made an all-star team?
And was he injured during the playoffs? His numbers were pretty bad…
Check Tayshaun’s numbers for the last three seasons in the series where Detroit got eliminated. They’re atrocious, comparable to last season.
Prince's Numbers
2009 Cavs — 3.3ppg in 32.3 minutes while shooting 25.9% from the field. Only 3.5 rebounds too.
2008 Celtics — 9.8ppg in 40 minutes while shooting 32.4% from the field. Only four rebounds.
2007 Cavs — 8.7ppg in 44 minutes while shooting 24.2% from the field. Rebounding was solid.
Coiuld it have something to do
with the fact that he was guarding LeBron James and Paul Pierce, the two best and most physical SFs in the league and that he was expending every bit of his energy to stop them, which was more important to their team’s success than his scoring was.
stuckey's not a 1
he’s a playmaking 2. so, we’d have a PG issue. otherwise, i’d say this would have been a pretty good deal. i think ray is better than rip, but rip is pretty good and younger. prince is a great glue player, and stuckey has his moments. BUT, it leaves us a hole at the 1, something that could cost us a title.
If you`re gonna give up Rondo`s future & Ray`s expiring $20M contract...
You absolutely MUST be “blown away” by the talent you get in return.
Don`t do it, Danny…This one falls short.
It would be great to have Prince…Hamilton not as much…Stuckey is still a question mark.
If Danny gives up the backcourt…we need a quality “Big” in return.
Getting a good young PG prospect and two starting caliber NBA players...
would be a pretty good deal. It would certainly solve our SF issues and it would give us a younger 2 who’d fit into our offense. But no way Detroit would consider this deal, so its not really an issue.
I'm getting a bit nervous...
that Rondo is being shopped more than we might think. I thought he was untouchable, but maybe not.
I'm starting to think
the Celtics know Rondo is going to ask for too much money when his contract’s up. And of course that combined with the fact that Ray Allen’s value is pretty high right now makes trades like this look pretty tempting.
I’m not sure how I feel about it.
it's possible
that rondo has asked for a trade and we just havent heard of it yet….
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jun 23, 2009 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont know this is a pretty good damn deal for both sides. I know Stuckey isn’t a true PG , but has PG skills and is a play maker. Thats a lot of talent to get back for Ray and Rondo. While I think Rondo is a better player right now than Stuckey, I think Stuckey has a chance to be an all-star for many years to come and his play reminds me a lot of Dwayne Wade.
Prince is also still pretty young and is a great role player on a contending team. He would be perfect to fill the role that Posey had last year by playing D and hitting 3’s. Plus Hamilton and Prince already have a ring and soo much playoff experience. I think I might actually do this trade.
PG: Stuckey / Anthony Carter( Vet Min)
SG: Hamilton/ House
SF: PP / Prince
PF: KG / BBD
C: Perk / Vet FA
Yea I think that is a pretty good team for a long time that could extend our window to win championships.
let's sign Rasheed
and we could have the ultimate Boston Pistons team:
Stuckey/Marbury
Hamilton/House
PP/Prince.Scal
KG/Sheed/Powe
Perk/Sheed
Nah…give me last year’s starting five plus McDyess and Hill and I’m happy
What the hell?
All of this is BS. I know everybody is looking at the trades on paper, but our starting five has AMAZING chemistry. Its the bench that needs fixing! Thats it. For Chrissakes Danny, stop trying to blow everything up. We lost because we didn’t have KG and Leon; thats it. Can’t we just roll with what we got until it officially is not good enough to win it all. Because I’m loving our chances next year if we can add a good backup wing and solid backup center. I’m not liking this “Throw it against the wall and see what sticks” plan that Danny has right now. It works when your rebuilding, not when your already a contender.
That’s pretty interesting. Who is the best player in that deal? I didn’t see enough of the Pistons to really say, but I’d guess it’s Rondo. I’d have to know more about Stuckey, I’d guess to make a call. I don’t really like what I’ve of him, tho.
On another note, it’s kind of funny how the lower level executives or officials (and on a tangent: is he just making his words fruity-flavored or was the Celtics guy really an exec. and the pistons guy an “official” whatever that means) do the talking supposedly on this one. Maybe that’s how Danny can say he’s never discussed such things with other teams without hesitation.
I would do this deal in a heartbeat. We get lengthier, tougher, and our shooting improves. We get more versatility too. This is a no brainer to me. So what if Stuckey isn’t really a 1… we can make due, and we can still aquire some a PG elsewhere.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 23, 2009 2:27 AM EDT reply actions
Most importantly…. our defense will be completely awesome.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 23, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the trade would improve the shooting for Boston.
Three Pointers
Ray Allen hits 50% more three pointers than Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince combined. So the C’s would be losing a fair bit of their perimeter gunning.
Their percentages are good but they don’t take enough shots from downtown.
True shooting percentages
(1) Ray Allen at 62.4%
(2) Rajon Rondo is at 54.6%.
(3) Rip Hamilton at 52.9%
(4) Tayshaun Prince at 51.6%
(5) Rodney Stuckey at 50.8%
Spacing
The Pistons struggled to space the floor all season long and finished with one of the worst eFG% marks in the league. Their starters on the perimeter were a big reason why the team struggled here.
Somewhat true, but a rookie coach also played a big part in this, also the whole Iverson saga and the disruptions it caused in the rotation. The simple fact that teams won’t play off Stuckey as they do Rondo pretty much automatically improves the spacing. You also have to remember that Curry forced Prince into a new role this year, as a Point-Forward… something he clearly wasn’t comfortable with. I’d say overall poor ball movement in a crappy offensive system is more to blame than anything else.
And you’re only looking at our starters…. Prince would be coming off the bench, you don’t think that would improve our spacing overall?
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 23, 2009 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the loss of Ray Allen would have more of an impact than the gains of having Prince coming off the bench.
Prince has had a 51.6% true shooting percentage for two straight seasons, so I don’t think Michael Curry is effecting him negatively there. Rip Hamilton is also right at his career average, albeit 2% less than his last few seasons. I don’t think Stuckey was negative effected by Curry either. The Iverson situation hurt Rip Hamilton’s shooting numbers for a few weeks but I don’t think it hurt their shooting percentages outside of that.
I saw defenders regularly playing off Rodney Stuckey and regularly going under screens. Now, not as bad as folks do to Rondo, but it was still a problem. There would be some improvement there … but you lose Rondo’s playmaking ability which creates easy shots for teammates.
I was more talking about why Detroit had poor spacing rather than focusing on why the players had the shooting percentages they did. Hamilton had a bit of a down year, especially from 3-point land… but he still put up good numbers. Detroit had some some impactful changes last season, and it’s fair to give the benefit of the doubt here that had things stayed the same Rip would’ve performed better. Ray had a really good year last season, but I don’t expect him to be as efficient as he was going forward…. it really hasn’t been his norm.
I also think that Ray is easier to guard than Rip. Rip poses more matchup problems than Ray… I also like that Rip is a better midrainge player than Ray, which means easier scoring and not have to rely too much on 3-point shooting, plus Rip is younger and cheaper…. and he can also post up a bit. And even when he has bad games, you can at least count on him to give out some scratches. And he moves without the ball better than Ray.
I wouldn’t trade Ray for Rip, but that isn’t what we’re doing. What we’re losing from going from Ray to Rip isn’t much when compared what we add with Prince as a bonus.
As for Stuckey, what you say is completely true… but the Celtics have the luxury of having someone like Pierce who can playmake for your team and is very comfortable in that role. Stuckey was given too much responsability too soon in his career and asked to play a position which isn’t his strongest one. I still expect him to improve substantially from what he did last year.
I’m also not very high on Rondo’s playmaking, so I’m not too worried about that. I don’t like his passing accuracy, his decision making, and the pace with which he plays at. He has all the skills to be very good in all of these, but he simply doesn’t bring it consistently. He shows flashes of PG genius, but he’s still a weak link in many regards currently. Even so he’s better than Stuckey running the point.
With that said, I think all other plays than are not PG centric would run better with Stuckey than with Rondo, and since we have Pierce… we should be able to manage with someone of Stuckey’s skill set.
I also hate Rondo’s defense.
And last but not least, we add some very good depth. Also, whose to say that we don’t sign another PG, and have Stuckey coming off the bench as a 2 guard?
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 23, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I was more talking about why Detroit had poor spacing rather than focusing on why the players had the shooting percentages they did.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.
In that case, Allen Iverson played a massive role.
I also think that Ray is easier to guard than Rip.
Yes, I think so too.
Ray’s declining levels of performance have made him easier to limit. Rip is the more reliable scorer.
I wouldn’t trade Ray for Rip, but that isn’t what we’re doing.
I’m not certain, but I think I make that trade. Mainly because of Ray’s age versus Rip’s, and Rip being locked down on a reasonable contract.
It’s the Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey for Rajon Rondo part that bothers me.
I’d probably make the trade for Rip with Ray myself, but I just like Ray too much, so in my mind it’s Ray for Rip and half of Prince.
I can understand why people wouldn’t want to trade Rondo, but I simply don’t think he’s as good as some here I making him out to be. I still see too many flaws in his game that are magnfied by the level of responsibility he has in running our offense.
To tell you the truth, I’d run the offense through Pierce and KG most of the time with either Rondey or Rondo, but I don’t think Rondo is of much use in that role… I think Stuckey can be. If Rondo were committed to play the game as he did in a couple of games in that Bulls series, especially like he did in the first half on the first game in Chicago, then I’d be more reluctant to trade him. But he simply isn’t consistent enough in that regard for my tastes, and when he’s not using his skillset appropiately, it brings the whole team down.
I think Stuckey would’ve less of a responsibility in our team, and thrive because of it.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 23, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
When the Celtics don’t run the offense through Rondo, it goes stagnant. Especially when the offense is run through Pierce. The Celtics offense is at its best when its running through Rondo and KG, and Paul can save his energy for the end of the game if its close. It’s pretty easy to see that the offense is not as good when the ball is always in Pierce’s hands, because he slows everything down, over dribbles and doesn’t create as well for others as Rondo.
by misterx2day on Jun 23, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The offens runs at its best when Rondo is running the offense AND is doing what he’s supposed to. When he’s not, our offense is at his worst… it’s a matter of consistency. It’s usually a problem with pace which Rondo still has a problem setting consistently. When they’ve gone through stretches where they hand the ball over to Pierce at the top of the key to start the offense most of the time we get a quality shot. The problem is that Rondo is a liability quite frequently off the ball, which makes Pierce’s job harder when he’s playing this type of role.
When Rondo starts walking the ball up, what usually happens is that he wastes too much time setting up the play, then he wastes about 5 more seconds because he has tunnel vision on Ray waiting for him to get open instead of making a quick decision and going with 2nd and 3rd options, attacking the defense etc. So by the time the play gets underway, we have like 10-12 seconds left on the shot clock, which will mean poor ball movement. This really kills our offense, and it happens very frequently.
At least with Pierce you know he has one thing in mind, to score the damn ball and he has become quite a good destributor. You bring a great point with conserving his energy though.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 23, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Can someone explain to me what the hell is "true" shooting percentage? is this another bogus Hollinger-type stat like
“shooting percentage averaged out over 48 minutes while being guarded by a chair?”
- Field goal percentage as you know = five shots, make two, equal 40% shooting
- Effective FG% (eFG%) or adjusted FG% accounts for three pointers = five shots, make two but one is a two pointer and one is a three pointer, equals five points, equals 50% shooting
- True Shooting percentage accounts for both three pointers and free throws = Four shots and two free throws. Make two shots, one two pointer and one three, and splits the pair of free throws, equals 6 points, equals 60% shooting.
It’s a good measure for scoring efficiency.
please clarify
I thought Effective and True shooting were both based on total points scored divided by total points available. Effective excludes free throws and True includes them.
In your True example, that would be:
2 3-pointers taken — 1 made
2 2-pointers taken — 1 made
2 free throws taken — 1 made
12 possible points. 6 points scored = 50% True shooting.
Please let me know if my understanding is incorrect or your math is incorrect. If it’s my understanding, could you (or someone) breakdown the formula?
It's not going to happen
Detroit won’t deal with Boston to make us better.
not good
why fix something that ain’t broken? but they do need to do away with moore and tony allen…get dahntay jones and another PG like steve blake
i would make the deal in a heart beat
too bad the pistons rejected it immediately
Me Too
It would be a great deal for the Celtics. No more defenders going under picks, because Stuckey will kill you if you do. I can see why Detroit turned it down.
agree on making this trade
It builds strength all around for us and give us great flexibility from the bench. Our bench was our achilles heel. And I’m not against Sheed coming here as well; I’m a big advocate of getting the big man in here.
It’s all about winning now, deal with the future later.
no brainer!
this would’ve been a no brainer! Rondo is the most overrated player in the league right now, so his value is at the highest it’ll ever be. Ray ray is getting old. Just look at him after one good game against the bulls. He was pretty much useless, and was actually hurting the team with his aweful shooting. RIp and Tayshun are really solid defensemen. This will make us once again, the best defensive team in the league by far. We all know that’s what wins championships.
more smoke
I think I’ll bury my head in the sand for the next few days and hope it all blows over
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
no kidding.
this is an awful rumor.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
I can see why Detroit turned it down
I can even see some rationale behind why it would have been offered
but I still don’t like the idea of trading Rondo
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
I don’t understand a lot of these trades. Some seem like lateral ones and others just pointless. As previously said, Danny should be floored by a deal to break up arguably the best starting 5 in the league.
This is a far-fetched theory, but....
Is Danny just playing head games with Rondo right now by involving him in these ridiculous trade proposals. Has anyone else noticed that most of these “rumored” deals involving Rondo are deals that would be completely unrealistic for at least one team involved.
There’s no way Detroit does this for two reasons. 1) they’re giving up their three best palyers currently under contract (since sheed hasn’t signed yet), and 2) (As others mentioned here) there’s no way Detroit does a trade that makes Boston better. Neither does Cleveland or Orlando for the same obvious reason.
Danny has to know that. And if he does, is he just trying to show Rondo (with his reported ego issues) that he’s expendable. Maybe light a fire under the young PG, challenging him to prove that he’s A) not expendable, and B) a great team chemistry guy and a good soldier (to disprove all the media buzz about his stubbornness that is cited as a potential reason for shopping him every time a new rumor surfaces).
Danny’s smart. Don’t underestimate him.
Perkins, Garnett, Prince, Pierce and Stuckey, with Rip Hamilton as the 6th man, isn’t exactly a shabby rotation.
Well, if they're going to trade them
they might as well trade them both to the same team so I will only have one new team to cheer for, and won’t need to further divide my loyalties.
Detroit won't deal with Boston
It’s not going to happen
Detroit won’t deal with Boston to make us better.
by wincelticswin on Jun 22, 2009 11:33 PM PDT
Danny helped Detroit win a title when he agreed to be the 3rd team in the Rasheed Wallace deal…they owe us.
I would dop thid deal
but only if the Celtics already have it firmly in place that they are going to sign someone like Jason Kidd or Andre Miller for a year or three. I don’t want Stuckey being my starter but think he’d make a great change of pace PG off the bench and would be good insurance in case of an injury.
I have been saying for 2 weeks Rondo is a goner...
This only proves it.
I am starting to think we are not going to make out in this… we are trading one of the best backcourts in hoops for 3 mediocre players.
I want a high pick
Any trade that involves both of these guy should net us a top 10 pick back.
by rickyfan3.0... on Jun 23, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Deadman Danny
Ainge will surely be shot dead in the streets, I would do it myself, if he pulls this trade. Stuckey? Are you kidding me? Hamilton is almost as old as Ray, and a lesser player. Prince would be a good 6th man, but we’d be giving up too much in this trade. Someone has got to stop this Rondo trade BS. Ray, I can understand given his age and contract situation.
Let's cool it with the death threats, please.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
can you explain
how this gets us dwayne wade in 2010?
Wow...suprised that people dont like this trade.
We had a player, a legitimate all star as our sixth man, at 29 years old in Prince.
Rip is much much defensively than Ray, and although we might lose the 3pt shot a little, Rips game is all around much better.
With regards to trading Rondo – I believe there is something we don’t know, regarding either his attitude, his thoughts about staying in Boston, or about his salary. Maybe Boston think he’ll leave after this year. If this is the case, then yes the trade makes a lot of sense.
We get stucky, we sign a FA back up pg, and possibly draft a future PG as well. We’d be ok, most teams win without star point guards.
"Much much" better than Ray defensively?
Can you give a couple of examples of Ray getting torched? Statistically and observationally, he has been a very good defender since coming to Boston.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Gotta agree
While Joe Johnson and Ben Gordon scored off Ray in their playoff battles head to head, neither shot well and both were inefficient scorers. Meanwhile Rip, Wally, and JJ Reddick didn’t exactly fair very well versus Ray. Ray played Kobe but for the most part it was a team concept of funneling Kobe where they wanted him with Posey and Pierce doing a lot of switches on Kobe that limited Kobe’s game last year. Ray did excellent in his role there as well.
Ray might not be the second coming of Michael Cooper but he is a good defensive player and intelligent team defender.
Silly Season
I think this is what they call “Silly Season” where crazy stuff just starts getting tossed around.
Some of it is probably GMs planting stuff that may or may not be true. Some of it is just GMs phishing. Take for example the talks with the Suns and Wizards, Wash. is said to have backed away when the Suns asked for Caron. No kidding. But you can’t fault the Suns GM for asking.
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Rondo
As has been said before by others, if we trade Rondo we better get a SUPER-STAR not just some over the hill all-star.
reminder and note to new users
no cursing is allowed on here – your posts will be deleted if you use profanity
thanks for understanding
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
That proposal was about getting Prince
Prince would be a perfect fit for Boston. But Hamilton is a career 44% shooter. The guy is a brick layer extraordinaire. I wouldn’t want that guy on my team, especially not replacing a great shooter like Allen.
Just some clarification
here are Rip’s and Ray’s career stats for shooting percentage:
Ray
FG%: 44.8%
3PT%: 39.8%
FT%: 89.3%
Rip
FG%:45.4%
3PT%: 34.9%
FT%: 85.3%
I’m not so sure bricklayer deserves to be thrown around with either of these guys. Rip might not have the consistency of Ray from much further out but from within 20 feet he might actually be a better shooter than Ray. Also, Rip’s 3PT% and FT% are really very, very good for career stats and he has had a couple of years where, much like Ray, he was at 48+%, 44+%, 85+%.
If you don’t like the trade I can understand why, but Rip Hamilton has been a pretty clutch shooting SG that has been a great shooter in this league for quite a while.
Fair enough
But that 34% three point percentage is awful. I would rather have Ray.
You forgot eFG%
Ray’s career is .523. Rip’s is .472. That’s a pretty healthy gap. Rip isn’t a “bricklayer” or anything like this, but he’s a step or two below Ray. Also, of course, he’s nowhere near as clutch.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Oh I agree
Rip isn’t Ray in regards to being a shooter but I just wanted to point out that he isn’t exactly bad either. As a shooting guard that is most known as a shooter he’s damn good. Ray just so happens to be one of the best ever.
And as for clutch, over the last 3 seasons, Rip has actually had better overall clutch stats than Ray 2 of the last three years. Ray had a clutch shooting year for the ages this season but looking at their recent pasts, they are pretty much even in regards to clutchness, at least in my book. Rip has been a very effective clutch shooter and player for the Pistons going all the way back to the championship year.
Bottom Line : Celts need MORE in return for Rondo & Ray
I`d love to see Prince in Boston….but, NOT at this price.
Hamilton will soon be 32, and his FG % fell dramatically this year.
Stuckey certainly has not proven he`s headed for “greatness”.
===========
BBD is too short
Powe is too short, with bad knees
KG is aging and getting injury prone
Perk`s shoulder is a worry
Danny, do the math :
Ray`s $20M expiring contract and Rondo = Boston`s 2 biggest bargaining chips.
Big bodies with height in the paint = Boston`s biggest weakness.
what a stupid rumor
I must be very drunken to believe that rumor . Stucky is totally overvalued and Prince is to low-powered for our strong defense… sure he is very good shooter with good height, but not comparable with Ray Allen and more a SF-Backup for Paul Pierce. Yeah that would be the perfect place for Prince – but not for Allen and or Rondo – these 2 guys are to important for us, especially Rondo should be by the Celts! I would trade Tony Allen and Scalabrine for Prince.
I asked god and he said: L.A. will lose again next year!! ^_°
You don't have to get very much validation
to get a rumor posted. Even one as horrible as this one.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
An interesting start
Dumars would love to build around a Rondo-Stuckey backcourt, and Ray gives him the cap space to do so:
Rondo-Bynum
Stuckey-Afflalo
Allen-Herman
Boozer-Maxiell
Johnson-Free Agent
Summer of 2010 they would have the opportunity to add a mximum contract to a very good core.
Are Hamilton, Prince, Kwame, #15, and #35 enough for Rondo and Ray?
Kidd-#15 (Jrue Holiday)
Hamilton-House-Giddens
Prince-Pierce-Walker
Garnett-Scalabrine-Powe
Perkins-Brown-#35 (Josh Heytvelt)
by Michael Anthony on Jun 23, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions
Kwame? Yuck. I wouldn’t want him for free.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jun 23, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
The reason this trade doesn't work for us...
… is that we’re giving up the two best players in the deal. How can that not hold us back if our goal is to win now? We’d be giving up two near-elite players for three above-average ones.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
especially for overpaid role players.
both prince and (especially hamilton) are highly overpaid.
Not so fast...
Hamilton and Allen are probably equal talents going forward. Allen had the much better career, but he is also 4 years older.
Prince and Rondo are currently equal talents – sub-allstar, defensive specialists with limitted offensive skills (Shooting and Passing, respectively). There is no garauntee that rondo continues to improve.
Finally, we get Stuckey for basically nothing.
by Michael Anthony on Jun 23, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You can’t compare Prince’s value to Rondo’s value. Prince is not going to be anything more than a very good role player in this league. Rondo has the skills to be a pereniall all-star, especially if he can score more consistently, and he showed that he can indeed score the basketball in the first five games of the Chicago series.
by misterx2day on Jun 23, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I said equal talent, not equal value
Rondo has a lot of upside because he is still young, and he is on a rookie deal, so his value is very high – but there are a number of players out there that put up good numbers as a 21 year olds, but never improved.
When Kwame Brown was 21 he average 11 and 7 on 49% shooting
When Eddy Curry was 21 he averaged 15 and 6 on 50% shooting
When Andrei Kirilenko was 21 he averaged 12 and 5 on 49% shooting with 2 blocks and 1.5 steals
All had unique bodies and skills, all had tremendous upside. We know the rest. Bust. Fat. Overpaid.
by Michael Anthony on Jun 23, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Rondo’s not 21, he’s 23 and he’s a very, very good player right now. There are only a handful of teams in the league who wouldn’t want him as their point guard. Add in the fact that he can improve on that and you see why Rondo is probably the most valuable player in the deal and I think he has more talent than Prince now anyway.
I disagree...
For next season, I think Rondo and Ray are unquestionably the two best players in the deal. Ray is certainly better than Rip at this stage, and I’d say that Rondo is also better, especially after what we just witnessed in the playoffs. As I said, the goal is winning now.
And of course, if the goal is the future, why are we giving up one of the five or six best young PGs in the league?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I sincerely hope this trade does not go down...
I really don’t want to see the Celtics win another title. If this deal went through, I think they would be better than the ’08 title team.
This would've been a TERRIBLE trade by Ainge
Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Rondo is so much better than Stuckey, it’s absurd to even put the two in the same sentence at point guard. I wish the new season would start already so we could shut up all of these geniuses trying to blow up a team that went 27-2 to start last season and won 62 games without our best player for one-third of the year.
If Ainge trades Rondo, he’s out of his mind. And trading Ray would be a terrible idea unless what we got back was overwhelming.
rondo ray rumors ??
it makes no sense to make this trade because stuckey aint even better than starbury and who was going to be the point gaurd most likley marbury was going to be resigned and get the starting job and stuckey coming off the bench unless they don,t think they can resign rondo to a long term deal all this team needs is some bench help and theu wiil be a contender next season …….
a bunch of thoughts on the celtics trade rumors (LONG POST)
I would not be against trading anyone if it means the Boston Celtics better. I personally think thabeet is gonna be a great player better than oden and i would have done the perk deal i might even trade rondo for that guy to get us a back up center that in my opinion and thats all it is is going to the hall of fame. which we desprately need. Rondo needs to shut his mouth and develop a clue. He could be part of the free agent class of 2010 hes going up against so many great players he has ZERO chance of being a max contract guy. Before his interview on D&C i wasnt all that concerned with the shooting but more his ft% but dont you dare go on the radio and say i am gonna start shooting a week from yesterday. thats what he has to improve on i personally think all this love from fans and media has got to his head. Would he rather be a max contract player on the Kings? Or would you rather make a little bit less stay here continue to improve your game and pass the ball to lebron or wade. which you couldnt sign either if you did this phony trade because even though i like the fact that prince would provide an unbeliveably awesome chance for pierce to get some rest but the problem is in the year 2010-11 hes going to make 11 + Million explain to me how your gonna have room to sign 2010 gold with him on the books at that much money i thought the idea of trading rondo and ray was because you dont want to pay rondo then sign 2010 gold. Why not just keep posey instead of paying a backup 11 million dollars whose going to prevent you from signing a 2010 free agent.. If Rondo developed a clue understood his present place in the nba understood that the more rings you get the more relevant you get your stature will grow even higher than it is right now take less to encourage management to sign a 2010 free agent then proceed to show up earlier to games work on free throw shooting in the off season as well as your jumpshot from all areas of the floor keep your ego in check dont you think he will make more money from endorsements possibly have an undefeated season because this team aint losing if we get lebron or wade with pierce and kg paired with rondo and perk if we dont get thabeet. or atleast a minimum of 73-9 to take a record away from him that he stole from red. :)
The trade
Getting Tayshaun Prince would be huge. If a player like Ray has to go, getting another UConn shooter would be a suitable replacement. Stuckey may not be Rondo, but with Doc’s teachings to a coachable talented young player we may see some flashes. And, from what i can tell……the money works.
by bleedingreeninfla on Jun 24, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
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