Celts are hooking up with Marquis Daniels for their swingman. They've been trying to trade with Indy for Walker, Pruitt and Allen
over 2 years ago
Jeff Clark
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Wow
That seems like we are giving up a lot. Also Danny must have a pg he is targeting if he is trading Pruitt. I guess the celtic organization likes Giddens over Walker
Standing up for the little People
PS: I am actually from Boston.
I had exactly the same thought.
I woulds prefer the deal to be Scalabrine, Giddens and Pruitt for Daniels and Diener. I would prefer to keep Bill Walker and Tony Allen.
I agree mostly...
Scalabrine and Pruitt for sure, but at this point I haven’t seen enought of Walker or Giddens to really make a decision between the two. Walker has obviously shown some great things, but I wonder if Giddens is the more all around and complete player, defensively and offensively.
Well, Walker is two and a half years younger than Giddens.
When you’re talking about prospects, that’s important.
And he managed to get a couple hundred minutes last season, which is a lot more than Giddens’s 8.
Maybe Indy prefers Walker, rather than Boston preferring Giddens.
Tony Allen is not even an asset to us, and I’ve lost my patience with Pruitt anyway….so i’d be fine with parting with them. I like Walker though.
I agree, Danny must already know what he’s getting/doing for our backup pg.
Looks like scal isn’t part of the deal? I’d rather keep him than Tony Allen so i guess that’s a good thing.
Also, if Diener is not included an we’re indeed talking about that deal, I’m pretty positive the we’ll sign KG’s old buddy, who we already tried to sign before 08/09: Tyronn Lue.
If that happens...
and we keep Baby, we will be sooooo solid. Our sencond unit will be extremely tough.
If walker is in the deal
danny has already decided to keep giddens over him. Only one of the two was gonna make the roster so it’d be good to see us get something for us.
by beantownboy171 on Jul 18, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here… but if it means we keep Giddens, I’m up for it. I’d rather keep both since i like both. They not interested in Hudson?
by BudweiserCeltic on Jul 18, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree...
I think he has a good chance of making this roster.
Is there anyway Watson could be in the deal? Or is there a waiting period ?
Standing up for the little People
PS: I am actually from Boston.
Bye, TA
Fine. We’re not giving up anything, except Walker.
Getting rid of Tony Allen is cause for celebration.
this is the best deal possible for boston
1. we rid ourselves of tony allen
2. gabe wasn’t going to be resigned anyway…no loss
3. walker has been surpassed by giddens and was not the answer at wing
4. WE GET TO KEEP SCAL…a guy who has a bigger expiring and a guy who actually is an impact on the floor. we will get something out of this
5. boston still has their LLE to get a decent point or another big off the bench
6. baby isn’t involved so they can go a resign him
this is the perfect scenerio for the Cs
by celticinorlando on Jul 18, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed and co-signed
for all the reasons stated above and more. From Indy’s perspective it would make more sense to want Walker for a couple of reasons. Walker is a possible homerun-type of guy and even though he is definitely more raw than Giddens at this point Indy has the time to give him to develop into something
by bucknersrevenge on Jul 18, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The slow way this is playing out worries me.
I don’t want this to fall apart. Yet I’m not sure I’ll be desolated if it does.
Daniels is rather short to back up Pierce, and the possibility of losing Scalabrine is somewhat vexing. Scalabrine makes too much (but don’t they all?). Still, he’s rather a useful emergency backup at three positions without causing any waves. I don’t mind losing Tony Allen or Walker (well, maybe somewhat). As for Pruitt, I still have hopes for the guy. The whole thing’s a mixed bag.
dont think scal is going to be in the deal...
by celticinorlando on Jul 18, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a mixed bag
Pruitt is Orien Greene once he’s gone, he’ll be forgotten. Scal’s not in the deal, he’s too valuable at least until BBD is resigned. Pierce is 6’7" and Ray Allen is 6’5" – Daniels fits right in at 6’6". Daniels ball handling ability also means he fits into the roster very well. He’ll play either wing and Ray or Pierce will play more on the perimeter – and House can play backup PG, since he’ll be on the floor with two wings that can handle the rock and at least one big man with good passing.
Says you. I'll beg to differ.
First off, until the deal’s done, you don’t know who’s in it. So yeah, Scalabrine could be included.
Secondly, Daniels may fit right in between Pierce and Ray Allen, but you know what?, he’s quite a bit shorter than Rashard Lewis, LeBron James, Lamar Odom, and some other guys he could find himself matched up with. So his relative lack of height could prove to be of some concern.
Finally, you don’t know what the Celtics have in Pruitt. No one does, because he hasn’t gotten enough consistent playing time to settle all doubts. Could be, he might turn into a real asset in the NBA as a dependable backup point guard. You know the Celtics once traded off Joe Johnson because they were pretty sure he was too soft to be a decent wing player.
Not a fan.
Not with Walker in it. I think Walker had the chops.
Pruitt and Allen, don’t care.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
looks like danny doc like giddens better than walker
by celticinorlando on Jul 18, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Giddens is a better fit
with this team. He still needs work but his game is more mature than Walker’s right now. He’s way better defensively and his game is much more versatile. Eventually Giddens is gonna be able to handle the ball a little bit and his game ironically projects like a more athletic version of Daniels.
by bucknersrevenge on Jul 18, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, I'm a bit hesitant with regards to giving away Walker.
With Walker’s age it could really come back to haunt us if we trade him.
Perhaps Joe Johnson/ Chauncey Billups style.
Rondo doesn't believe in easy buckets...
i doubt it...
he’ll be more like gerald green, imo
super upside but will he ‘get it’
who cares?
Walker is not good enough for this team now. I think Walker goes with TA just because Giddens and TA are too similar. JR also has a bigger salary – so if the C’s make a move later in the year Scal+JR is more fire power.
Nice JR seems to be on Danny's good side.
This would be great because it would give us more flexibility than if we trade Scal and TA.
We could keep sign and trade BBD for something else and have Scal as the 4th big or resign BBD and trade Scal down the line.
Rondo doesn't believe in easy buckets...
I don't buy it
from what source does ford have it that ainge is “trying” to trade walker as part of the deal. pruitt and TA make sense. walker is cheap with upside. i’d guess the scal rumor is more reliable. scal and / or TA — save wyc some dough.
Too bad
Watson can’t be part of the deal. but their signing of him may indicate that they’d be willing to include Deiner. Though if they lose Jarret Jack to Toronto not so much.
I dunno. I like it no matter what. We’re getting a solid 7th man for players who would fall somewhere in the 10-15 range as our team is now. If we can resign big baby the bench is looking nice!
Sheed, Daniels, House, BB, Scal … not a horrible 6-10 at all.
by MaineBleedsGreen on Jul 18, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions
chad ford is very well connected, especially with Ainge...
He proved that in the draft three years ago when he predicted we would take Rondo, albeit we got him later in the first round.
Boston does not have to work out a trade; we can just sign MD to LLE, according to all reports. So there has to be a reason we want to do it this way; such as save the LLE. I agree completely with BostonOrlando’s list of points, excellent.
Yes, it would appear that Giddens has one the roster spot over Bill Walker. Also would appear that we expect to play MD more at the 3 than the 2, given that BW would be packaged rather than JRG.
Maybe the rook will be our backup PG
The kid looked good until he broke his finger. Not asking alot from him, just a few minutes a game to hold the fort down.
He Hasn't The Vaguest Idea of How to Play PG
It will take him 3 years to learn the position, and by then he will be 28 years old.
My guess is that he’s going to Europe.
No need
for a backup PG. Daniels will play backup PG from the wing, while House plays SG from the PG spot. If the rook finds a contract in Europe the C’s will let him go, but he seems to be a shooter with some more all around game than House, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the roster and tearing up the nba-dl.
How About
We trade Walker Ta Giddens and Pruitt for Daniels and Tinsley
I'd look at it
I dont know if that works, but i would think about that. I think Tinsley has a terrible reputation (lockroom issues?) but from what i can remember hes got some skills
ya
thats what i was thinking about tinsley but i thought we had daniels already
Tinsley?
We want to pay a back-up PG $7M this year AND next? Let’s find someone for the vet min to cover those 9 minutes a night. The reason to get Daniels in a trade is to save money: unload some dead weight at the same time we sign the new guy. The roster will get filled out with min guys and maybe an LLE signing.
This 3-for-1 deal looks like good news for cheap talent in the Hudson, Powe, Marbury, Lue mold.
It also kills my dream of TA, Scal, Pruitt for Nocioni. But Geoff Petrie probably would have spat on my dream anyway.
by JudsonMerrill on Jul 18, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey
why the cry over for a like tony that he’s gonna be hurt by mid season. Pruitt is more gone than Scalabrine and Walker!! well Indiana have to get something. Nothing is free in this life!!!
terrible
you don’t want to trade all of those contracts. Shud try our best to get him for the LLE. TA, Walker and Scals equals a good player from a team looking to shed $ come feb.
wow
thats a lot to give up for an average (at best) defender and shooter who’s had injury issues. why not just keep TA?
you’re comments are outright silly. you can hate TA, but he’s a solid role player when healthy. plus, trading bill walker is a mistake. “best possible trade”?? 3 good young players for daniels? please.
What is Our Motivation to Trade?
I can only think of two reasons why we would want to trade with the Pacers. Can’t we just sign him straight out? Isn’t he an unrestricted free agent? The reasons we would do this is to 1. Keep our LLE. 2. Pick something else up besides Daniels in a trade.
Reason 3
To save money. By signing Daniels to the LLE u are essentially adding around $4 mil in salary (remember we are in lux tax land). By trading away dead weight we are able to save $$ and keep the LLE open.
by Celtic Justice on Jul 18, 2009 8:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Considering that you pretty much have to match salaries, you don’t save money at all. Also, you have more roster spots to fill… Walker and Pruitt are already very cheap. So, if we save something it would be quite small to warrant “dumping salary”.
Keeping the LLE would be something that might motivate them though if Danny has another FA in mind he could use it on.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jul 18, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
no - that's not right at all
If they sign for the LLE (and he may only take a one year LLE deal, with a player option) you add 4 million (2 million salary, two million tax.) Tony, Pruitt, and Walker make 4.1, which costs us 8.2. (Assuming Pruitt’s option is going to be picked up.) So signing him for LLE and holding those three guys costs 12.2 million. They can save about one million by not picking up Pruitt’s option.
So (real quick math) they can have Indy sign MD for 3.2 and their total cost will be 6.4. That means they save 4.8 – 5.8 million. They could then include a bunch of cash to Indy to get Indy to do it, and still save money. It also creates roster spots. It also saves the LLE which may be the difference in getting a player at mid season or next summer (versus only having the vet minimum.)
At the higher starting salary, they may be able to get MD for a better deal (like with a team option for year 2 or year 3.)
I guess you’re right. But remeber that trading Pruitt and Walker opens up two roster spots that need to be filled. They also have the LLE at their disposal once again, I think they will be inclined to use since I think there are a couple of worthwhile players to offer it to still out there.
So, this only holds true if we only use minimum contracts to fill the final roster spaces. If you use the LLE, you won’t be saving money at all… especially if you sweeten the deal by sending them cash. And it also holds true if Daniels is signed for 3.2 million.
But all of this is besides the point, since your intetion was to show that we could save cash. Even with the possibility, I doubt that the move would be financial motivated to save money this year.
We’ll see.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jul 18, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer to keep Walker
but I can see why he’d be in it – otherwise why would Indy have to do the sign and trade? why not just let him walk if all they are getting is flotsam?
we do it to save cap room which makes it more likely that we hang onto Davis
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
I think Giddens is currently the better player, and the more useful player. But that aside, as some of us have discussed there are various reasons to do this (not all apply at the same time):
1) Possibly lock-up Daniels to a multi-year contract.
2) You still have the LLE available to sign players.
3) Roster flexibility.
4) Indiana includes another player in the trade.
So on the surface, it might look like TA-Pruitt-Walker for Daniels, but it’s actually for Daniels and whomever DA finds to fill those roster spots.
by BudweiserCeltic on Jul 18, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
maybe it’s the kool-aid stache from some of those thunderous dunks and tommy proclaiming him “sky walker” but i really liked his pesky D and nack for riling the opposition off.
why a sign and trade......
I would assume that Daniels wanted more than 1.9 mil. So we work out a deal to get him more and swap the contracts. We add a player we want, he gets a little more cash and we don’t add any more to the overall payroll. As far as Giddens over Walker, correct me if I’m wrong but in the little I’ve seen of both, Giddens seems to be a better perimeter shooter even out to the 3 point line at times. He seems to be more of a two guard than Walker could be and may still in spots be able to swing up front. Ainge may have plans for him as a two and his defense at that spot may end up being superior than Walker’s.
This might free up the money for BBD
Depending on if they have to send money to Indy and how much MD signs for this could save them up to 5 million.
Roster looks very solid
KP / Sheed
KG / Scal
Pierce / MD
Allen / Giddens
Rondo / House
I assume we’ll keep a big man with fouls (probably Swift) for the minimum and our rook guard. If they don’t bring back BBD (which I think they very well might – 50% he signs the QO, 25% they end up matching someones offer sheet IMO) that’s 12 guys meaning they don’t have to sign anyone else. Seems like they’d probably want to add another combo guard with height or stronger SF, depending how much they like MD’s PG skills.
It also makes for great rotations. Doc’s MO is take each starter out once, so having a your 6th man be able to play both big spots, and your 7th man able to play both guard spots and SF should make it easy for Doc. Scal’s a nice compliment with some abiilty to play both PF/SF and an extra shooter. He’s right where he should be at 9th man.
Having a bunch of rookies and a big man project at 10-12 should keep Doc’s rotation from getting too deep.
Oh Gawd
Do we really trust Chad Fraud so much that we’re taking his word on this one? They’re N-E-G-O-T-I-A-T-I-N-G…nothing’s been determined or it would have been announced already…
One of Scal/TA will be included to give Daniels a fair salary, and after that we don’t know…
As for the Walker/Giddens debate—it’s pretty clear that Walker is the more NBA-ready of the two.
Giddens has more upside but is further away from realizing it. He’s NOWHERE near ready to be a role player at this point of his career. He still plays with the ball, he’s indecisive as all hell, and he can’t shoot very well (because he tends to take 20 jab steps before he does, instead of simply catching and shooting). He does have a great first step, great athleticism, and good defensive and rebounding instincts…but he’ll need ample playing time to put it all together…
Walker, on the other hand, already has shown he can play a role. He moves the ball well, takes open shots when he gets them, runs to floor, competes on defense and gives hard fouls. He also has a pretty devastating post game. In short, he doesn’t need the ball to be successful—he plays within the confines of the offense. Giddens, on the other hand, has to dominate the ball to get buckets….that’s fine if you’re Paul Pierce, but not so great if you’re the 9th man playing 5 minutes a night…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jul 19, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions
actually ouldn't agree less.
Right now Walker is lost on defense and offense. He does foul hard and dunk hard but that’s about it. Right now he’s Kedrick Brown. Walker hasn’t not shown he can play anything yet. He’s taller and bigger overall than JR which is why he got minutes last year. JR was timid last year but he learned a lot in the D-League, led that team to the D-League Finals(somewhat dubious for a 1st round draft pick but still bears noting) and he was the most consistent player game in and game out this summer league. Where he was timid before he’s been aggressive going to the hole not, been showin out on defense in practice. The kid has something. Right now Walker is so raw I don’t think we know what we have with him.
by bucknersrevenge on Jul 19, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Whateva
If by ‘consistent’ you mean Giddens consistency bricked almost every jumper he took, then we’re in agreement. The guy can’t shoot—and to top it off, he jab steps 20 times before he pulls the trigger. In general, Giddens only success on offense came off penetration—he’s got a GREAT first step, decent handles, a pretty good sense of space and ability to find the open man. That’s all great, and it gives him the POTENTIAL to be a better player than Walker, but in reality those types of skills are not what we need or want outta a reserve 2 guard…we want spot up shooting, somebody that runs the lanes, and a good defender. JR can run the lane and play defense, but he can’t spot up right now. Even worse, he kills ball movement w/his frequent jab step routine and tendency to overdribble…things that will get him sent to the bench in a hurry.
Walker, on the other hand, does all three. And he almost never over-dribbles or otherwise bog down ball movement. He keeps it moving and keeps himself moving. He’s also efficient in the post and has a nice step back jumper with range to the 3 point line a la Paul Pierce. All those things make him the more ready pro prospect on THIS team.
See, Giddens would be great on a bad team where he could dominate the ball. We’re not that team. We need a guy who can defend, run the lanes, and knock down shots while being an efficient offensive player—that’s Walker to a T right now.
I didn’t see any of the lostness in Walker’s game that you allude to—feel free to elaborate on that point.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jul 19, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
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