Cap Set - Celts Pay Tax
by Jeff Clark on Jul 8, 2009 5:25 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintThe NBA salary cap for the 2009-’10 season dropped to $57.7 million, and the luxury tax threshold to $69.2 million, the league told its teams Tuesday night.
The mid-level exception is set at $5.854 million.
In the private memo to teams, the NBA reported what the seven franchises paying luxury tax had to give up to the rest of the league. The list included: The New York Knicks ($23.7 million), Dallas Mavericks ($23.6 million), Cleveland Cavaliers ($13.7 million), Boston Celtics ($8.29 million), Los Angeles Lakers ($7.1 million), Portland Trail Blazers ($5.8 million) and Phoenix Suns ($4.9 million).
For more details on what these numbers mean, see this Roy Hobbes FAQ Salary Cap article from earlier this offseason.
In somewhat related news, Andrea Bargnani is set to sign a contract extension said to be for 5 years at about $50M. He was the first pick in the draft from the year we picked Rajon Rondo, so this deal will likely be used by both the Celtics and Rondo's agent as a benchmark of sorts.
Also, according to the AZ Republic, New York offered Grant Hill "the option of a one-year, $5 million contract or a three-year, $10 million deal."
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Jeff, sorry for asking but erm...
Would be nice if you’d (for one more time :x) include a short explanation of what these two numbers mean (cap and tax threshold) – I for one would like to ease into the numbers game, and this would be a good place to start, methinks.
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
I can't explain it any better than Hobbes did
so here’s his article from June
http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/6/3/896268/celtics-salary-cap-situation-and
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
NY really now
I didn’t realize their tax was that high. what kind of salaries do they have? Is this Starbury’s fault?
What did you say to me paper champion?
-Mr.T
If the tax is for last year, then yes Starbury’s salary contributed. If it is for next year then no, Starbury is already off of their payroll.
dont you admire the big paycheck that knicks have
if only we had that much $ to toss around. big baby, no problems
bye bye Hill
if he gets that kind of cash from NY, I’m guessing he takes it
that article also talks about him wanting a starting job and big role on the team, …yeah, enjoy that
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Yep...
I don’t know why they’d offer a 3 year deal, though. That cuts into their cap space next summer, and also leaves them with a 39 year old Grant Hill in a couple of seasons.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
why?
Why would Grant Hill take that deal? It makes no sense to me. Why would he want to finish his career playing for a lousy team? If he goes to NY and chases the cash, I will really think less of Grant Hill.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
Well...
Not every player wants to be a “ring chaser”. If he loves the city, would be a starter, a leader, and would be getting paid the most money, why does it speak less of him?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
He's done all that already...
…I would think he would want to have a shot at a title 1x in his career. “Ring chasing” or not, the Celtics give him the best opportunity to do that. Otherwise, his career ends with a couple of years on a lousy Knicks team and Grant fades into Bolivian as Mike would say. I would have hoped that Grant wanted more than to just play, that he maybe wanted to win.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
can see it either way
4 million dollars is a lot more money
normally I agree
I’m a free-market kind of guy and I understand going for the money
that said, Grant earned more money than most could dream about by NOT playing for the Magic for many years
if anyone’s in a position to take less money to have a shot at a ring, it is him
however, I admit that it sounds like he’s got a lot of other factors playing into his decision as well
and of course this whole dog and pony show may just be to get the Knicks to drive up the price for on the Suns (all the cool Kidds are doing it)
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Hill on Knicks?
Maybe the 3 year contract would be frontloaded? 5-3-2, or 4-3-3, or something like that?
right
but if he should be playing cheap for a contender to make up for getting injured while playing ball, its Orlando he should sign with. he doesn’t owe the celtics his charity.
hmm, when has grant hill played on a good team?
the guy has never been out of the first round, and last season while playing every game, the suns, who had a roster that should noway miss the playoffs…missed the playoffs
i really hope this loser goes to new york
by orr on Jul 8, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
ORL
was a bunch of idiots for signing him in the first place, I don’t think there is any question he was legitimately injured, so i dont see how it can be called stealing
yea but...
if I get “injured” for a few years, I’m out on my ass looking for a job, as are most people
I think now we see how the Knicks ended up paying so much luxury tax
Offering 5M for Hill for one year’s pretty bizarre, too.
How about Stack?
Looks like Stackhouse will be a free agent soon. Think he might be available for $2M?
am i the only one that prefers barnes to hill?
or is b/c it is much harder to get barnes?
Bargnani?
Doesn’t $10m per year seem a bit much for Bargnani? I realize he had a nice season last year, but that just struck me as way too much – he shouldn’t be in the same cash zipcode as Hedo.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
It's not exactly...
It’s not exactly a … bargaini :P
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
by Kiorrik on Jul 8, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
whether hes in the same zip cose as hedo or not, he was a #1 pick
by orr on Jul 8, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
i think hes better then hedo and has a bit more potential to be developed
hedo is really being way overpaid
Andrea Bargnani
If it is used by Rondo and his agent it is not good for the Boston Celtics. By almost all accounts Rondo is way better than Andrea. If Bargnani gets 10 million a year for 5 years Rondo is going to want 60 million over 5 years.
This Is The Problem
When poorly managed teams pay players more than they are worth it hurts the Celtics. If some team wants to overpay BBD, it hurts us. When a team gives away nothing and gets Shaq, it hurts the Celtics. I think all transactions of any type must be approved by Celtisblog. It’s the only way to stop this nonsense. We were mad at Danny for not paying James Posey last summer because he was fiscally responsible. This year Danny made a very responsible deal with Rasheed Wallace. It’s too bad other teams don’t do the same.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
The most significant thing about the cap:
In a memo announcing next season’s salary cap and luxury-tax threshold, sent out shortly before the league’s annual July moratorium on signings and trades was lifted at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday, NBA teams also received tentative projections from the league warning that the cap is estimated to drop to somewhere between $50.4 million and $53.6 million for the 2010-11 season.
That is going to kill a lot of team’s hopes for next season. Cleveland, for instance, may have to kiss the idea of signing two max free agents goodbye.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I wonder how that might change some of the deals already offered this season
Teams that worked so hard to be under cap might suddenly pull their ‘MLE’ offers back.
I haven't seen
Many teams working to max FA deals giving out MLE deals that extend multiyears.
Also, does this kill Rondo's "max money" push?
What team is willing to spend 1/5th of their payroll on a PG that needs offensive threats around him to be at his best?
I believe estimates are correct
The league was only percentage points off their estimation for the 2009/2010 season, so it probably will be somewhere near those figures for 2010/2011. I hope that results in teams having fire sales now that the Celtics can cash in on with their expiring contracts.
by Jon Niednagel on Jul 8, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
But the lower cap hurts everybody
So instead, there could be a bunch of players that can kiss the idea of being a max player goodbye.
Apples to Oranges
Barnani is a 7 footer; Rondo isn’t. If Rondo wants 60 million they’ll just let him go into restricted free agency.
If Rondo has a great year, he might be worth 50 million over 5 years. But I wouldn’t pay more than that to extend him.
Barnani is a 7 footer;
who doesn’t rebound any better than Rondo. He’s not exactly a force under either basket.
who cares is bargnani is a 7 footer, hes not worth more then rondo
rondo has it right, the only player in his draft class worth more then him is brandon roy
by orr on Jul 8, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
He Plays Much Shorter Than That
I haven’t looked at the numbers, but Rondo probably out-rebounds Bargnani. Bargnani is a three point shooter. Rondo would have to ask for more more than that.
Isn’t that the deal that Big Al got in Minnesota?
Don't these guys know how tall they are?
Rondo gets a lot of rebounds, but Bargnani is a better outside shooter!
doesnt matter
that barga plays small and rondo big – the market dictates that height gets you a raise. if you isolate for height two identically productive players, the taller one almost always gets more.
Grant Hill is not coming go after matt Barnes
Celtics should target Matt Barnes. He split time with Hill last season on the Suns and put up similar numbers. He’s younger and less injury prone. We might even be able to get him for less than the 1.9 Mil we offered Hill.
Let NY keep Hill...Barnes is the better choice
Hill`s old, fragile body should scare every GM away!
At 37, Hill is more “marque name” than actual production…and Boston has plenty of “star-power” without him.
Nobody is going to buy a ticket to see the great Grant Hill play!
Hill’s age kind of worries me too, but I’d feel better about it if he was a 3 pt shooter.
I don’t really get the fascination with Barnes. He has struck me as a guy who makes losing plays (kind of the opposite of James Posey). He can shoot the 3, but I’d rather let Walker play or work on a trade to fill the swingman spot.
Barnes seems to fit in an uptempo offense
Not the Celtics type team where he is the small PF/slow SF.
Celtics already have Scali who plays better defense.
Re: Bargnani's Contract and Rondo
I’m not sure I get this either. How does giving one guy a bad contract impact Rondo’s negotiation? They gave him a bad contract, so…our team has to give out another one…because they’re in the same draft class? I’d think guys like Nelson and Harris are the more relevant comparison points. Maybe they’re underpaid or Rondo’s better or whatever and he deserves more, but Bargnani’s situation seems irrelevant to me.
Toronto overpayed this season
In hopes of a breakout season.
Has nothing to do with Rondo’s next contract.
just saying it is a benchmark
not saying it is a particularly good one – just food for thought, that’s all
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
10 Mil a year for 7 ft 3pt specialist.
The NBA is fantastic.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Nick Fazekas is next
I think he deserves $10M per year, too.
Grant
Has Grant already signed with NY? How does anyone know what he will do (except himself) until he does it? I’m just wondering….
wow
That number strikes me as AWFULLY high for Bargnani. He’s a hell of a lot closer to a 30m / 5 player than 50m / 5, that’s for sure. They are going to severely regret that deal, mark my words.
As far as Grant Hill in NY, what’s not to like? Grant Hill loves D’Antoni. It’s the biggest market in the world. He’ll get paid out the frame. I don’t think he’s really ring-chasing at all, that much should be obvious.
New Orleans
I wasn’t aware New Orleans was interested in BBD. It would seem like the sentimental choice. Still though, it doesn’t appear that he would get any more money elsewhere. Certainly not some huge payday. Why not just stay in Boston?
Is the whole money thing coming from Baby or his agent? In other words, is Baby getting bad advice from his agent?
S&T
If NO is looking for a S&T with Boston for BBD, what would they have that could match on salary that we need?
You know...and I can't believe none of you even THOUGHT of this....
I wanted to post here that the Knicks were mumbling bumbling idiots for doing this. But you know what I realized? They did something that we couldn’t say they did before: they offered Hill….a long term deal…long enough that he could play with….with…wait for it…..I don’t really have to say it do I? LEBRON JAMES!
At the very least, VERY LEAST, this may be why Hill ultimately accepts, on top of the fact Tamia (Hill’s wife, if you don’t already know) can pursue her singing career in the bright lights of NY and all that glamor talk. Still, before, we couldn’t say Hill was it in for the basketball. NOW, Hill may not only start in NY, but two years from now, he COULD start with Lebron James, even if that’s only for two years. And, like Dobbs pointed out, he’d be coached by D’Antoni and be able to play in a system that he likes.
Yeah, I think NY won the Grant Hill sweepstakes. But, my bigger picture still looms on….
Well I thought of it,
but clearly there’s no guarantee LeBron ends up in New York. Why should Hill even consider this given that he only plays another year or two? The “Tamia” factor seems to be much more relevant to him right now.
In fact, no player can predict where LeBron will end up. That seems to be a big reason why Cle is having trouble signing FAs. Nobody want to commit to a longer deal and watch Lebron go elsewhere. It’s a strange role reversal in that the star power of LeBron/Shaq is not enough to make players interested in joining.
Marvin Williams
Is a sign and trade involving Marvin Williams possible for the Celtics?? Probably unlikely, but a package of Giddens, Scalabrine, and Pruitt would probably work moneywise
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