Which Ray Allen Will Show Up?
by Jeff Clark on Aug 20, 2009 6:17 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintPrograming note: I intend to do an article per player on the roster. They won't necessarily come every day, but they'll help me fill up the days when there's no news.
Ray Allen is a model of consistency, ...except when he's not. It boggles my mind how a guy can be so solid and steady and yet be so hit and miss.
His routine and work ethic are borderline legendary. Day in, day out, he's refining his craft. For 9 straight years he averaged over 20 points per game. When he quietly took a half step back into a supporting-star role behind KG and Pierce he still chipped in 17.4 and 18.2 over the last two years. He's the one guy that Doc can't seem to bring himself to take out of games - even when he's trying to limit minutes.
In the perfect storm of egos in that locker room, he's the steady lighthouse shining through the chaos, pointing the way home. When he talks he sounds like a polished politician, with a pleasant blend of wit and intelligent comment. There's nothing inconsistent or unreliable about the man.
So why is it that we never know what we're going to get from him, especially when the playoffs roll around?
Take a look at his game logs. By my rough count he only scored in single digits in 7 out of the 79 regular season games in which he played. But in just 14 playoff games, it happened 4 times. That isn't to say he had a bad playoffs. It is just that he was feast or famine.
Just take a look at the first two games of the playoffs. Game one: He shoots 1 for 12 for just 4 points in 39 minutes. Game two: he shoots 50% and scores 30 points. Later he followed up a 10 point game with a 51 point barrage in a losing effort. He was very hit or miss in the playoffs the year before as well.
So what gives? Why can't he be consistent in the playoffs? Here are a few theories, none of which I can prove.
- The nature of shooting: Kind of like baseball hitters, even the best 3 ball shooters are destined to fail more than half the time. Sometimes the good and bad shots bunch up together, maintaining his typical average but making individual good and bad games stand out.
- Age/Injuries: It is a long season for over 30 guys and he even admitted that he has struggled with injuries that he didn't tell us about. When a shooter has issues with his legs, the shots just don't fall as often.
- Playoff gameplanning: There's a big difference between getting comfortable looks against the Bobcats in the regular season vs. seeing specific rotations designed by coaches to knock you off your rhythm.
- Teammates: Perhaps more than other players on the Celtics, Ray is reliant upon his teammates to get him the ball in the right spots. Sometimes in the playoffs Paul might try to do too much himself or Rondo might be a little off his game and the ball just doesn't find Ray in the normal flow of the offense. For a guy so dependent upon routine, that has to throw a wrench into his works.
Or maybe I'm reading too much into things and the peaks and valleys he's gone through have been anomalies. Maybe we'll see a consistent Ray Allen knocking down 3s all through the playoffs next year. That would certainly bode well for his future on this team.
As most of you should be aware, he's in the last year of his contract. He's expressed interest in signing an extension, but you know there's little chance Ainge will give up the payroll flexibility he provides us with next summer.
Despite some early summer rumors, I think there's a very small chance that he would be dealt before the trade deadline, but the option is always there if a sweetheart type of deal presents itself. And headed into the summer, they can either re-sign him for a lot less than what he's making now, or they can sign-and-trade him for good value in return, or they can cut ties with him and allocate that money elsewhere. Nobody knows exactly what chaos will ensue next summer, but having flexibility to react to the market is critical for Ainge.
I don't know if this is going to be his last season as a Celtic or if he's going to retire in Boston several years down the line. I don't know if he'll be hot and cold in the playoffs again or if he'll find his post-season groove and stay there. But I do know that even when he misses his first 10 shots, there's nobody I'd rather have taking the last shot.
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Last line said it all.
He’s a gunner. I believe in the first thing you said: it evens out.
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
First of All....
I have to say this… RAY ALLEN ISN’T GOING ANYWHERE!!!
Now I believe his playoff slump was because of match up problems and also injury related problems. Ray usually has a hard time playing guys that are alike him (Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon, Reggie Miller etc), but once he figures out that there no threat to him he has games like the 51 point barrage! In the Magic series, Ray almost went unnoticed because Courtney Lee assignment was to play defense and stay glued to Ray Allen and don’t help out another teammate. Same assignment went to JJ Reddick. to sum it up Ray is on an entire different team than his previous seasons. His role has changed he’s moreso of a 95% of the time shooter, and 5% scorer, compared to when he was a 60% of the time shooter and 40% scorer on teams he carried. Ray will be fine. RAY ISN’T GOING ANYWHERE!!!
Another great one Jeff.
You are starting to fill these long slow days with very fun articles to read. That is a true blessing during this time of the year.
I love Ray and what he’s done for this team. There is no other player in the league who I would prefer to be taking my last shot to win or lose the game. It’s like when he’s on your team, even if your down by a bunch in the final minute, if he’s out there you feel like you always have a chance to come back and win. A few quick three’s and your right there again, and Ray has shown he can hit them in volume. I have felt for the last couple of seasons like I can never get in on those “trade Ray” threads here. I always felt like the chemistry of the first unit was too important. But for the first time since Ray arrived here, I’m starting to truly consider what can be gained or lost in a trade involving him.
I think of course that the Celtics should head into the season with the starting 5 that they’ve got and see how it works out. But if Ray is underperforming or starting to show his age, I’m sad to say that it may be time to start considering a trade. As a fan I would personally prefer them to explore trades than just letting him expire. I would like to do something to extend the teams championship window as I truly feel our time is right here and right now. We’ve got a few seasons to fill the team out around our stars to win a championship.
One of the few trades I would support and could see happening would be with Sacramento. The Maloofs have been historically cheap and not so concerned about who they are putting out on the floor. I think we could refresh the team with a trade involving Ray Allen (and filler if the Kings desired) for Kevin Martin and Andres Nocioni. It would give them a big expiring deal to put them well under the cap for the big free agency and they would be getting rid of the two biggest contracts on their team. I know that nobody in the league can replace Ray, but Martin is as good as any to try to fill his shoes.
Kevin Martin is 26 years old, shot .415% from the 3 point line and averaged 24 points per game last season, has a career .454 FG%, and is signed through 2013 for what averages out to a very decent $11.5 million per year salary. He also averaged nearly 3 assists to go along with 3.6 rebounds a game last season.
Nocioni, as many know here quite well already, would be a valuable pick up because we’d have a legit back-up to Pierce who is tough minded defensively. He’s 29 years old, he’s a solid 3 point shooter and rebounder and has the size to guard guys like Lebron. He is also great at taking it to the hole and getting to the free throw line. His salary, which give most people haste, is really not that bad, at an average of $7 mill per season and a team option in 2013.
This is the type of trade I could see that could keep the Celtics competitive for a championship the next few years. Martin isn’t a centerpiece that’s going to lead you to a championship, but neither is Ray at this point. And let me reiterate, I would never trade Ray if things are going really well during the season. I think you only make this trade and break up the chemistry of the first unit if the team (or Ray himself) is underperforming.
I Do like that trade idea of Ray for Kevin Martin and Nocioni!!
It will pain me a lot to see ray go as he indeed is the player I would rather have taking the last shot in the whole NBA!!!!! Before Kobe or Lebron or Pierce or Garnett…
However, that trade gives us ammunition to stay competitive for another 4 to 5 years! (team chemistry would be something I will keep on eye on if this happens..)
I first thought the only way Ray is leaving is by us getting Wade in return…
But I got to say this trade idea is also tempting…
No matter what happens Ray will forever be the first player I will think of when talking about “dagger threes” and “classiness”!!
by drogbagarnett on Aug 20, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Its so hard imagining trading Ray because he’s such a good player and good guy. His acquisition is one of the main reasons why Garnett expressed a desire to come to Boston. He is no doubt one of the key reasons we won that championship and the chemistry issue is the main reason why I have always been against trading Ray. The chemistry is so delicate and when the Celtics are clicking because of the amazing chemistry, their basketball play is a beautiful thing to watch.
That being said, Martin would be a very solid replacement, and picking up Nocioni would give us unfathomable depth. Could you imagine,
Starters:
PG Rajon Rondo
SG Kevin Martin
SF Paul Pierce
PF Kevin Garnett
C Kendrick Perkins
Bench:
PG: Eddie House
SG: Marquis Daniels
SF: Andres Nocioni
PF: Glen Davis
C: Rasheed Wallace
That would be a pretty dynamic team, with perhaps an ability to sign Ray Allen to the MLE after he expires at the end of the season (if he’s still interested in the C’s)
by Prof. Clutch on Aug 20, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I would definitely do that trade too...
Martin may not be able to shoot as good as Ray but he is a better scorer and only 26… Also Nocioni would be the perfect backup 3.
I WOULD LOVE FOR A TRADE LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN!… BUT YOU’RE STILL THE MAN JESUS!
Yeah
but you really do never know what will happen with the chemistry. I think a trade like this would be ideal, and there are incentives on both sides, but it’s still a risk.
I’ve been feeling that same kind of enthusiasm since I thought it up the other day. On paper I think it gives us a better chance of competing for a championship for the next few years, but you never know.
www.greentownsfinest.com
by Prof. Clutch on Aug 20, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Getting Ray Back after his contract expiration would make us insanely good!
I could see after 2 to 4 years a team like this :
Starters:
Rondo
Kev Martin
Nocioni
Davis
Perk
Bench:
House
Ray
Pierce
Garnett
Wallace
If the Big 3 feels like returning to Boston for the spirit of the team and not money…
I know it’s not likely to happen but what a bench that could be! Old and slow but super efficient!!
by drogbagarnett on Aug 20, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with on that one Prof. Clutch...
but you would be getting two very talented players in return for Ray… With them both being younger like you said Martin at 26 and Nocioni at 29.
Horrible trade idea
Kevin Martin is a joke, I don’t care what kind of numbers he puts up. The number that counts is his teams Wins total. That guy isn’t and never will be in Ray’s league.
You don’t trade a first ballot HOF-er/All Time great 3pt shooter who is conerstone of our championship window for a pre-madonna, unproven, skinny/weak, no-D playing guy who has never won more than 30 games in his career. And no, throwing in a bench player does not exactly sweeten the deal.
Trading one dollar for 2 quarters will do two things, close this current championship window, and 2 hasten the re-building process. And LOL at the idea of Ray re-signing with us to backup Kevin Martin. Cmon now, you guys know better than that!
First of all, Sac would never do that trade
Ray Allen is coming to the end of his career while Martin is just entering his prime. Why would Sac do the trade? Sac is a horrible team. They are attempting to rebuild —why would you rebuild by trading your best player for someone who is clearly not going to help your team rebuild?
And then to take homerism to an entirely new level, to then assume that this impossible trade happens, and you don’t lose anything at all, lol. That is, the guy you traded, miraculously comes back to the team. So basically you are saying that you get Martin and do not lose Ray Ray, lol.
C’mon fellas. I know dreams are meant for fans on blogs during the offseason, but don’t you think that this is going to an entirely ridakulas level?
The idea of getting Ray back is ridiculous lol but...
I don’t think Sacramento would do the trade but a reason for them to is to get 2 contracts off their books in Martin and Nocioni and then let Ray go after the season ends and that would free up 20 million for them…. but Martin is their future and I don’t think they would give up this much for Ray but I would LOVE for it to happen…
DON’T GET ME WRONG THOUGH I STILL LOVE RAY AND ALWAYS WILL… Unless there is a trade out there like this one that will help improve the team.
I think people
are focusing too much on getting Ray back after the trade. I merely stated is as a possibility, though a very unlikely one. But the trade, as I explained just below, is one that I could see happening.
www.greentownsfinest.com
by Prof. Clutch on Aug 21, 2009 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Here is why I think they would do it:
Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Tyson Chandler, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Redd.
The Maloofs who own the Kings have had a history of being as cheap as possible. But if they are indeed trying to rebuild as you say, trading for Ray would give them a potential of having only $17,290,400 locked up on only a few players when this list of players hit free agency in 2010. Most of the big name free agents play the same position as Martin. Beyond that, Martin and Nocioni are their two most expensive contracts. That is why I believe they may be willing to do it.
www.greentownsfinest.com
by Prof. Clutch on Aug 21, 2009 6:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't disasgree with you more
Kevin Martin has shown even greater efficiency the last few seasons at getting his points than even Ray. His percentages indicate that he’s not just heaving up shots in volume. Paul Pierce also spent most of his career on losing teams, its truly hard to win in this league when you are on your own as Martin has. There’s no telling what kind of impact he would have on a team with this much talent on it. And Nocioni would be an invaluable pick-up if he could be the other piece. I think you seem to have a personal bias towards Martin that is clouding your vision a little bit.
www.greentownsfinest.com
by Prof. Clutch on Aug 21, 2009 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions
People are looking too far into this...
Pierce and Allen had to carry this team for 40 games without KG…that’s a ridiculous task…
KG should have been NBA MVP for our championship year.
I’m actually surprised the Celtics did as well as they did without KG…that’s a true testament to how good Allen and Pierce are.
When Allen and Pierce play 28-32 minutes for an entire season and have gas in the playoffs, they are going to dominate hilariously. Trust me.
This next year is going to be a complete joke to win the championship.
By the way,
the moment that you captured in the headline photo was one of my favorite Ray Allen moments. That last second corner shot to win the game against the Bobcats. I remember it so well, Pierce dribbled down the right side, Wallace slid off Ray to help leaving him wide open, Pierce dished the ball to Ray, and Swish!
Game.
I was so riled up after that. Never leave Ray Allen open for the last shot to win the game!
Those clutch buzzerbeaters have gotten so routine . . . ; )
My fave is when Ray went one-on-one with Sasha and just blew right by him in the championship in ’08. Ray made it perfectly obvious to the world with that one play that the Lakers were entirely overmatched.
Still looking forward to seeing Ray in green this year!
by Thruthelookingglass on Aug 20, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely Agree.
Are you talking about when Ray faked him out and ran past him so fast that Sasha almost fell out of his shoes? If you are, I agree. That has to be another one of my favorite Ray moments from the last couple of years.
In honor of that: (I think this is done by our own Celticsblog Drucci, because it can’t be a coincidence that the youtube user who uploaded this has the same name.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPVhSsNlHRg
And here’s another video of it, including a short clip of Ray Allen talking about that particular play at the post game press conference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5Egcl2YXWc&feature=fvsr
by Prof. Clutch on Aug 20, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
That happens frequently
So frequently it’s strange. Of ALL people to leave wide open, opponents choose Ray…
by nba is the worst on Aug 20, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions
VERY GOOD
1) Doc has to play the young player’s during the year. They will never be good enough if there not played.
2) Rondo has to make Ray the first option not the third option
he's a streaky shooter - playoffs or not
throughout the whole season, it was basically on or off with rayray. it just carries more weight in the playoffs.
I May Have Missed It
But Ray plays defense, often against guys like Rip Hamiton and Ben Gordon who are constantly moving without the ball and running Ray into picks. It’s often been said that the way to stop a good offensive player is to make him play defense. It’s often at the end of games that this has it’s effects. But how many buzzer beater threes or big end of game plays (remember going by Sasha) has Ray made. How about the key rebound at the end of a game. Push said: "People are looking too far into this… I agree. Ray is one of the great players of all time. His age and physical condition are disconnects. I wouldn’t be too quick to move Ray. I hope Danny does extend his contract.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Role model
More younger players ought to look up to Ray and model their careers after his. He doesn’t get into trouble, earned a lot of respect, doesn’t cover himself with tatoos, etc…
by funkstarrdeluxe on Aug 20, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions
Allen is Legit!
Ray Allen Killed the fakers in Game 4 of the 08 Season… during the final minute he out rebounded vujadick for a key possession… his reverse layup against Gasoft and Odumb ( Kobe "colorado manda’ was chasing him at the back )…. and his classic one on one against vujadick for the winning basket.
Love Ray-Ray… I do hope he remains a Celtics until he retires!!!
Pure shore I love the nicknames you have for the Fakers...
Back to the article though… I believe it is a combination of all 4 of the reasons… I too hope Ray remains a Celtic until he retires unless we can get a deal that will benefit us in trading him.
Big Shots and game winners
I don’t have the stats in front of me but I’d bet a sizeable amount of money that Ray Allen has hit more game winners and big shots over the past 2 years than any one else on the team, I’d also bet that even though he’s only been here two years he already ranks in the top 5 of Celtics in terms of hitting game winners. Yes, he has struggled in the playoffs and it is a bit of a mystery but I want him out there at the end of a game. Without ray allen we don’t get past the bulls. I think it was a combination of fatigue and the fact that 2/3 of our starting lineup weren’t scorers. Once Rondo came off the boil the only reliable offense was Pierce and ALlen and the other teams double teamed them. That’s one of the reasons I’ve been so hot to get more shooters- so as to free up Ray
He's best when he's just doing his thing.
Most players play best when they play within themselves, playing with minimal conscious thought, doing only what they’re prepared to do. And with Ray Allen, that encompasses a great deal – including the ability to calmly take game-winnning shots. But when he tries to play a bigger role because someone else is hurting or absent, he often doesn’t respond well. He’s a great complementary player. But he’s hit or miss when he’s trying to be the alpha dog.
I can think of a couple teams in Seattle and Milwaukee that might disagree about the alpha dog comment.
by papa shuttlesworth on Aug 20, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Allen has been great for what he is, and I wasn’t trying to be dismissive of him. Still, I don’t think he’s ever been the lead guy you could build a championship contender around (and that’s the only kind of alpha dog that’s worth considering). Yes, he led Milwaukee to within a game of the NBA Finals against a weak Eastern Conference representative (Iverson’s 76’s), but that was his high water mark.
Let me add, the number of guys who are capable of being the main guy on a championship contender are very, very few. Garnett is one of them, and only when he’s on the court with such vital guys as Allen and Pierce.
Ray Allen
They need to rest Ray up a little more for the playoffs this season because at the end of the season he was out there playing 40 minutes a game and was tired by the time the playoffs came around. To be a great shooter like Ray you need the legs all season and I think they were dead at the end of last season. Ray needs to be getting the ball about 80 % of the time down the floor not just to shoot but he is also a pretty good passer
Also
He admitted he was hurt in the Orlando series. Which brings up another point. Ray plays hurt. We often don’t know it. Thus it’s hard to evaluate him on performance alone. Which if that is the way we evaluate him he’s a future Hall Of Famer. It’s very hard to argue that Ray should not remain with the Celtics until he decides to retire. He is everything a Celtic ought to be.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
And Why Were We Able To Get Sheed
Ray was part of the reason. He is important in making the Celtics a contender for a ring. That’s what Sheed was looking for. He’s also a team player. Sheed also liked that. When did KG finally make the decision to come here? Part of it was after we traded for Ray. That played a part in convincing him that the Celtics were truly committed to winning.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
come on
KG didn’t sign as a free agen, he was traded – the front office makes the decisions and the players have input. to say that ray is the reason that KG decided to come here just doesn’t make sense.
KG refused to come to boston
before they traded for Ray.
and KG agreed to the trade after he negotiated his extension with the Cs
KG
Yes he was traded, but his contract allowed him to opt out the following year. We gave up a busload of players to get him. If he were to opt out the following year we’d be up the creek. Thus KG, basically, could dictate where he was traded to. At first he did not want to come here for various reasons. He was also unhappy with the "TWolves because he didn’t think they were willing to pay the money to improve that team. The Celtics trading to get Ray Allen and pay him the $ was one of the things, not the only thing, that convinced KG that the Celtics were willing to pay to improve the team and make them contenders. To make the deal work for the C’s KG had to agree to a contract extension, which he obviously did.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
he's staying
I mean where else Is he going.Kevin would not wanna let ray go.If he goes the chemistry will become terrible.I think that he might (or will) sign for the full MLE next year or sign with the money thatPaul will reconstructure.(means that he will opt out and sign for less money to get another player…..July news)I want Ray to stay
I never thought that someone will ever suggest to trade Ray, but I guess it would be a great deal for the Celtics if they do it right. I have been watching his career since he was playing with the Bucks. I consider myself a die hard Ray fan and my opinion will always be biased on his side. Anyway the guy was great in the playoffs in Milwaukee, Seattle and the Celtics except for some slumps. I remember the how he got Milwaukee to the Eastern Finals back in 2001 with incredible shooting performance against the Hornets and the Magic, his team was a layup away from the finals. He was great on his contract season with the Sonics, was one inch away from forcing Game 7 against the Spurs in 2005. He would be a different player if he played with KG in the Wolves roster the team that actually drafted him. I think it was his tough luck that he played with bad teams where he had to carry them by himself.
I expect Ray to be great again on his contract season with the Celtics, He will make some damages in the playoffs, fans just need to stop the trade Ray talk for now, lets just think about this season and a new banner…
First Comment :)
Ray is not intimidated by the moment- be it a last second shot or the added pressure of the playoffs. Not every shot goes in, but he is not inconsistent. He is a streaky shooter (as many 3 pt threats are) who can fill it up at any moment. I would bet his playoff percentages are better than most people would think. Also, I would much rather see Ray shoot and miss than see Ray pass up an open 3 because he doesn’t want to miss (a la Marbury)… A confident Ray keeps shooting because he knows the odds are in his favor. If he misses his first few shots he knows that chances are the next one goes in.
The Title Might Be Misleading
Which Ray Allen Will Show Up?
I think the Ray Allen we see shows up every night. The title concentrates on his shooting. It’s already been mentioned that Ray has off nights shooting the ball, but that is normal. What is important is that Ray IS a shooter and, as Doc says, Ray has a bad memory. Regardless of how he is shooting, in Ray’s mind, his next shot is going down. That’s the consistent Ray that shows up every nite. The one with the bad memory. And he is never afraid to take the BIG shot. That’s what’s important.
Bird also had off nights.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Ray Allen - Most underrated Celtic
If you look at boards of other teams in the league, and even some Celtics boards unfortunately, Ray Allen is the most disrespected guy on this team. For much of last year, this guy was the best player on a 62-win team. He dominated the Bulls series and just ran out of gas against Orlando.
Yet all you hear is “Ray Allen is too old.”, “Allen is just a role player now”, “He can’t get off shots without a screen.”
I mean are you kidding me? This guy is the greatest shooter this game has seen. I laugh when Celtic fans post 50 idiotic Ray Allen trades every year.
Recognize Ray Allen!!
I could not agree more my brother. He was by far our best player in this years playoffs. Without the ticket in the lineup Paul had a hard time getting to the hole because KG can usually pull one of the bigs from under the basket with his shot range. Ray stepped up this year.
by bigjohnson34st on Aug 20, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank You!
I totally agree with your comment. He scores what 17-18 ppg? Bostons averaged 100 ppg, with opponents scoring 93 ppg. If Ray Allen wasn’t there, Boston would have been on the losing end of more games.
Agree, But
I agree that Ray was one of our best players in the playoffs, BUT please, let us not forget the great job Perk did. We wouldn’t have gotten as far as we did without Perk either.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Getting the ball
Frankly in my opinion, Ray’s problem is Rondo. Rondo does not deliver the ball such that it gets there at the same moment that Ray does. Rondo waits until after Ray reaches his spot, and that 2 sec delay is all his defender needs to get to him. Rondo may be great as a drive and dish feeder, but his timing of passes has much to be desired.
Bingo… This was Rays problem in a nutshell in the first two rounds of the playoffs last year.
by bigjohnson34st on Aug 20, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
rondos passing
bozo is correct. Rondo throws the ball to ray.Marbury threw the pass to the spot that ray is coming to.The one part of marburys game that impressed me.
Ray Allen
There is no way the Celtics go far into the playoffs without Ray. I will admit that his stretch in the Orlando series hurt them greatly. However, they wouldn’t have been there if he hadn’t had such a great Chicago series. Ray had a great year last year. I feel he was the MVP of the team. All of you who want him traded would regret it. Ray belongs here. No Ray, to title.
I Love Ray Allen, But....
I would trade him if the right deal came along. To say “no Ray, no title” is silly. In fact, the 2007-08 Celtics were the only team to win a title WITH Ray.
The issue with Ray is age. At some point in the neatr future he will slow down. It happens to us all.
Offense
The offensive schemes that Doc has insisted that Ray buy into, have Ray running back and forth, trying to free himself, (and he has been getting creative in “creating” a pic) just to free himself for that one moment. If that is the offensive scheme you are going to insist on having a HOF shooter play, then at least make sure someone is getting him the ball at the moment he gets there. Ray Allen is getting no respect. This is not Tony Allen getting free for a moment, where a point might say so what. And that is what Rondo does.
If you are going to play Ray, at least respect his shooting abilities. Doc should either change the offensive scheme, or get Ray a point guard that knows how to pass. And Yes, Marbury was very good at that.
Trade Rondo
I would trade Rondo before Ray. “Lets be clear”…this team is not going to win a Title once the Big 3 leave. You don’t win Titles when your foundation is Rondo, Perkins, Baby. These are decent players, but not HOF superstars. You still have a clear shot at a Title. Maybe two, or three. But if you trade these guys off, you might as well forget it. This does not mean you cannot Trade Ray. You just want a superstar in return. Say: Chris Paul. Your bottom line objective is to win a Title. You can do that with what you have. Why give that up.
Excuse Me?
If course it will win a title after the big three leave. The question is when.
Jeff, you answered your own question
2007 Ray coming off two ankles surgeries and probably playing too many minutes took its toll on his consistency in the playoffs.
2008 Ray had to carry too heavy a load for much of the season with KG injured and definitely played too many minutes. The result, well under 100% physically and an inconsistent playoff performance. His minutes must be managed better and I think a true backup point guard would help that so House can take more minutes at shooting guard.
by SteveZ from Edgemont on Aug 20, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions
Ray v. Kevin Martin.
Martin may score more in his present situation but will he be as effective on the Celtics? One must realize Martin is on a team in which the entire offense is geared around setting him up to score. Ray has less freedom on offense than he had at Seattle and Milwaukee. In Boston his role is to shoot deep. He is not given the option to drive at will or given clearouts multiple picks etc as Martin currently enjoys in Sacramento. Martin does not pass or put the ball on the floor on the drive as well as Ray, nor is he anywhere near the defender. Believe me if Pierce were to miss 10-11 games with KG in the lineup you would see Ray put up big numbers during that stretch. In addition as pointed out Rondo for all of his abilities was not quite as good at finding an open player at the spot the player was going to as opposed to where he is when he is open. ( Too bad Marbury self destructed on webcam.)
Under Appreciated and Misunderstood
Nice Article. You hinted at part of the problem during the playoffs. Without KG, not only did PP try to pick up the slack which threw things out of wack; but teams were free to double and to throw everything they had at Ray Allen. Of course he was also struggling with an injury. But is hard to underestimate how much not having KG took the C’s off their game. With Sheed this should not happen.
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