Hollinger Comments On The Celts
by Roy_Hobbs on Aug 27, 2009 10:04 PM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintI know we're all starved for Celtics news, or even commentary, these days, so here's John Hollinger with some thoughts on Marquis Daniels and the Celtics position in the East, from his ESPN chat:
manfrom (manila): who should the celts sign as back up PG?
John Hollinger (3:41 PM): They already have a deal with their guy, Marquis Daniels, they just haven't inked yet because they're desperately trying to make it a sign and trade. Daniels will play with House in the backcourt with the second unit and they'll trade assignments on D.
Jesus Shuttlesworth (Boston): If daniels plays back-up point for the Celts, who backs up Pierce at the 3? And please don't say Tony "I have never seen a shot fake I didn't jump out of my shoes for" Allen.
John Hollinger (3:48 PM): I like Allen better than you do, but I think he'll have a lot of competition from Bill Walker for those minutes ... if the Celtics don't trade him first.
Chris (Nevada): Best in East in order 1) Magic 2) Celts 3) Cleveland Tell me im correct
John Hollinger (3:07 PM): I think it's basically a dead heat between Orlando and Cleveland at the top; I have to pick one of them eventually but will take my sweet time. Boston to me is clearly third in the pecking order based on their age issues and the uncertainty with how Garnett can come back. The other oddity about the East is the rock-paper-scissors nature of the match-ups last season -- Orlando beats Cleveland, Cleveland beats Boston, Boston beats Orlando. If that holds up this season, playoff seedings could matter even more than usual.
I can't say that I agree with the Celtics being the clear #3 team in the East, especially with the Celts getting better and Orlando arguably getting worse.
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I can’t say I agree with us being number 3 in the east… I think Orlando too has gotten worse and I can’t say I agree with Marquis Daniels going to be our backup pg and have Walker and TA fight it out for the backup 3…
Getting Paul and Ray a serviceable backup is much more important than us getting a backup pg therefore I think Marquis will be our backup swingman and that we will pickup a backup pg.
Let's face it
We are not going to be the favorites with ESPN. ESPN has always been all about Kobe and Lebron. It’s just a safe guess.I never liked Hollinger. His stupid playoff machine he does every year.The odds for the champion. The safe guess picking the two teams in the East Finals. If healthy the Celtics are the better team. Marquis will not be the back up point guard. I don’t let it bother me.Hollinger picked the Lakers to win in 2008. All the teams on top have there weaknesses. The great what if’s. If Artest doesn’t work the Lakers can’t win. Celtics getting hurt,or maybe the age will catch up with them this year. Is Shaq enough to help win.If any player is getting hurt next year.It’s Shaq. The Magic basically switching line ups,and will it be the right fit. Spurs same as the C’s injuries and age. Mr.Hollinger has the right to his choices. Bill Walton will be right again.
I don't think we'll be third in the east if we're healthy
but I don’t think he’s wrong to put us there until we see Garnett back on the court playing at a high level.
While I understand what you're saying...
… we’re not the only ones with question marks. Orlando’s all-star point guard is coming back from a similarly serious injury, and Hedo, Lee, and Alston are gone. They’re integrating a lot of new players, and I’m not sure that Vince is a better fit than Hedo.
As for Cleveland, while I like their off-season moves, the fact remains that the Shaq trade is a huge question mark in terms of how it changes Cleveland’s style of play.
Personally, I think you can make the argument for any of them being the favorite. I don’t see a clear dichotomy between the top-2 and #3, under any circumstances.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I agree to that
It’s pretty much in the air to start the season. I would say Orlando and Cleveland do have the biggest question marks. Boston has the injury question. Assuming Garnett comes back healthy.You have the same team basically,and we lost Powe,but Baby has gotten better,and you add a Wallace to pretty much take over for Powe. Add in Rondo wants to be a ALL-STAR,and Perkins will make another leap in progress. I think he’s wrong.I would have agreed more with the second seed,but I do think the Celtics will have the first seed on the final day. From day one ESPN,and a lot of other News sources. Mainly ESPN. Has questioned this team the most. They will continue this team. Nothing shocks me from ESPN anymore. I won’t watch them. I will tune in on NBATV, OR NFL network of whatever news from them.
All three teams have questions
but our best players are the only ones moving out of their primes. So I think our questions are the most concerning.
You do make a good point about the level of separation. I don’t see much of a gap between any of the top 3 in the east.
Hollinger’s explanation is very reasonable.
What did Clev lose to get Shaq? Nothing. I don’t see why they are a big question.
Orlando’s PG already showed he is healed in the playoffs. We have yet to see KG play post injury.
Once KG shows he can play, we move up the rankings.
by guava_wrench on Aug 28, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I still think Shaq is a question mark . . .
Cleveland will totally be changing its style of play, presumably. Also, Shaq in the past has been a bit of a prima donna; how will he fit in? I think he’ll be fine, but it’s at least a question.
As for Nelson being fully healed, he didn’t look great in the Finals. He’s at least questionable. Plus, again, they’re changing their entire style of play. They’ve replaced the 6’10" ball-handling and clutch Hedo Turkoglu with the one dimensional Matt Barnes, and they’ve added a potential cancer in Vince Carter. Again, question marks.
With the Celts, I guess I’m just not pessimistic enough to think KG is going to be a shell of his former self. He had fairly minor surgery. If he wants to rank the Celts third, fine, but I think it’s silly to say there’s a great divide between any of the top three at this stage.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I actually think that Shaq will make zero difference
I think that one of the most over-rated players in the game is the current Shaq. Remember that this is not the diesel from the Kobe/Shaq days. He is huge, but old and slow. Does that remind you of someone? I think it reminds me of the most under-rated players in the game, Big Z from the Cavs. Huge at 7’3" and a great offensive weapon, but slow and old. In fact, i think that Big Z is better than Shaq. Big Z can do everything Shaq can do but yet can also shoot the lights out.
Also, they can never be on the court at the same time. To tell you the truth, I’d rather have Pavlovich and the other white guy who can shoot Szerbiack i think. Those two could do something different —-shoot the 3 and spread the floor. Who is going to do that next year? They were great and under-rated complimentary players for Lebron.
The problem with the Cavs is also their biggest asset: Lebron. Also their coaching is horrendous. Anyway, as long as Lebron is going 1 on 5 in the ECF, the Cavs have no shot at winning. Lebron needs to get his teammates involved and with confidence. All his teammates are now getting the blame while Lebron is thought of as the next Jordan (without winning anything, unlike Wade who was in the same draft, or Kobe with 4 rings) —-i think this is wrong. I don’t think that Lebron has learned that in the NBA it is a TEAM game. That you need to pass and be a playmaker for your teammates. Szerbiack and Pavlovich are 2 of the best 3pt shooters in the entire NBA. Mo Williams is a great shooter. Big Z is great on offense. It was lebron and coach Brown who decided to play 1 on 5 against the Magic and i think that this cost them the series. If they do the same next year, they cannot beat the Celtics/Magic. But perhaps Lebron will learn? I’m not sure.
Interesting that you say LeBron doesn't understand the "TEAM" concept,
especially when one considers that in his early days in this league, he was ridiculed by some for being too unselfish (this came to a head when he made the sound decision to dish to Donyell Marshall in the corner, who missed a three that would have won a game at the Palace of Auburn Hills in the 2007 ECFs).
Further, I seem to remember a significant portion of the Cavs’ roster forgetting how to shoot down the stretch in the playoffs. Ilgauskas wasn’t particularly efficient at any point in the postseason, and the team’s shooters were fairly disgusting over the course of the ECFs. Plenty of those looks were open ones.
Sure, LBJ occasionally gets a bit too shot-happy (especially with regard to over-reliance on his mid-range jumper) – just like every other star in the league. The idea that he was a significant part of the problem here seems like quite a stretch to me. There isn’t another player in the league in his spot that even gets that series to go six games. The Cavs simply matched up poorly and played even worse.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Aug 28, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Cavs biggest problem is coaching
The orlando series is the best example since the Mavs lost to the Warriors of “deer in the headlights” syndrome.
Now, without Keuster, they’re going to integrate 3 new players into their top 8…
by nba is the worst on Aug 29, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
#3 not really
writers who hate certain teams and are prejudiced against certain teams should not have their writings published. Hollinger can go on some blog and talk about whatever he wants, he should not get paid for what he writes. He clearly hates the Celtics more than anything else and wants them to lose. No way this guy watches a Cavs vs Celtics game or a Magic vs Celtics game and doesn’t root hard for the Cavs and the Magic, no way he watches that game 50/50 just watching it to see who wins. “Clearly 3rd” is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read. If he could write “Clearly 4th” withouth being fired he would, but he can’t do that. He puts the Celtics right on the line everytime as low as he could possibly put them, without going so far that people would get outraged. After the Celtics win it this year, guarantee the guy falls off the map. He won’t write one positive article on the Celtics or even acknowledge that they won the title.
I wonder if you think the same of Bill Simmons
You wrote:
“writers who hate certain teams and are prejudiced against certain teams should not have their writings published”
Bill Simmons has ADMITTED that he is a Kobe hater and a Laker hater and that he is a Celtic Homer. He has admitted all of this. So do you also take the same stance with him and claim that Simmons should not be published. With Hollinger you are jumping to conclusions —just because he rates you guys 3rd doesn’t mean he hates the Celtics. But with Simmons, he has already admitted to being a celtic homer and a laker hater.
Bill Simmons is a stand up guy
nuff said. follow his tweets @sportsguy33. I never knew he loves New England sports sooo much until i started following him on twitter. The dude has a good head on his shoulders. Now Hollinger…..he’s garbage lol
What did you say to me paper champion?
-Mr.T
by CaliforniaGreen on Aug 28, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I think Simmons has been fairly explicit about this throughout his writing career – I’d advise a look back through his archives.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Aug 28, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
well
I don’t know much about Simmons, I read Hollinger’s because he comes up with the lists, saying this player is better or ranked ahead of someone or this team is better or ranked ahead of someone, or rankings throughout history. If you are coming up with those type of lists or rankings you have to be partial to every team. If you consistently rank one specific team at its extreme low and never rank it what should be its average or even as high as it could be then the list doesn’t really mean anything. If you do that to a team that has already won a championship with most of the players who are still on the team it is not fair to that team so people like EPSN or NBA.com shouldn’t put out the lists. With this guy its been Lakers over Celtics as #1 franchise, 08-09 Lakers over 07-08 Celtics, offseason moves Lakers ranked over Celtics(oops that was Aldridge but I bet he’d do the same thing), power rankings 3rd in the east, and then answers a question from a fan and its clearly 3rd. Its like the Celtics go out and win the 2007-08 title and this guy writes an article saying they didn’t win.
No, it's actually not like that at all
It’s more like the guy doesn’t necessarily see a victory that is now two seasons in our rearview mirror as reason to declare the Celtics the team to beat. Nor should he.
I agree with Roy that I don’t think I see the Celtics as the clear third of the East powerhouses, but I certainly do agree that there are plenty of concerns to be had with this team, and I find the idea that Hollinger “should not have his writing published” because, as far as I can tell, he doesn’t see things the way star18 does, more than a bit silly.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Aug 28, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Just for the record...
Bill Simmons gets his fair share of criticism and has been called a Boston homer many times. Even if star18 doesn’t feel that way about Bill Simmons, others apparently do.
I'm a Laker fan who LOVES Simmons
Even though he’s a homer, he’s not delusional. His nba knowledge is obvious, and he is genuinely funny!
Any Celtics fan who hasn’t checked him out should – you won’t regret it
by nba is the worst on Aug 29, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
#3?????
This guy wouldn’t put the Celtics #1 if his life depended on it. He has never liked the Celtics.
Good, I like these guys under-rating the Celts. Puts a fire in them even more.
LOL Hollinger got everything wrong there............here it is:
Daniels is our back up SF (Tony is a SG not a SF lol).
With Rondo at 36 minutes a game, Celtics are going to sign a veteran PG for minimum OR they can just mix and match House between PG and SG.
Celtics are #1 in the East by far (we were unstoppable with a healthy Garnett BEFORE we got Rasheed who was a STEAL for us even if people don’t know it yet)
What's brilliant about the Marquis signing is that he can plug into the 1-3 positions, depending on who develops how
and he’s probably right, Walker is the most likely player to break out this year.
i would have rather read nothing then read this garbage, you would think by now people would stop making the celtics the underdogs. orlando and cleveland made adjustments to there team that are very questionable the celtics basically only added sure things and gained back there number 1 or 2 player were 1 done care wut anyone says
Rasheed is not a sure thing
I love the move, but Sheed is pretty old and had a bad year in Detroit. He’s a sure thing to be better than Mikki Moore, but will he be a great sixth man?
Rasheed will be amazing
Rasheed actually put up pretty good numbers considering he’s a championship caliber player who was playing on a JOKE of a team last year…
His numbers were fine and he’s an amazing player. He has a lot of gas left.
Add either one of KG or Rasheed to last year and we could have gone all the way…now add both and we have banner 18 wrapped up!!
I think you underestimate how important Garnett is
Rasheed is no longer an all-star level player. He’s an okay starter, and a great bench player. Maybe he’ll be re-motivated by coming to Boston. But he’s lost a lot of his quickness and that’s hurt his game.
He's still got more than PJ in '08
And that contribution was key. Best move this offseason was getting Sheed, IMO. It won’t be huge if KG doesn’t come back to his former level, though
by nba is the worst on Aug 29, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
the difference is if vince, shaq, and artest dont work out for there respective teams they almost have no chance at winning it, if rasheed doesnt work out were basically the same team as last year and still have a great chance of going to the finals
Great way of putting it.
That’s the best way to put it, celtics94. :)
We finally have the ability to give PP, Ray, and KG some serious rest during the regular season (30 min a game) and even without Rasheed, a healthy PP, Ray, and KG = a banner.
Sure, that *might* turn out to be true,
but I don’t think it’s fair to say that so definitively at this point. Or at the very least, those of us that are not medical experts (and I certainly am not) don’t have a clue as to just how much Kevin Garnett will be able to give us this season. Which means we may be that “same team” as in previous years, and we may not.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Aug 28, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
totally disagree
If artest doesn’t work for the lakers, their team still looks pretty stacked. I don’t think Ariza was the glue that held them together.
If shaq doesn’t work out for the cavs, their team is the exact same as last year’s. Their worst case scenario is to go with Ilgauskas at 5 who has done pretty well for them.
Orlando is taking the biggest risk and I’ll agree with you that they might take a step back if Vince can’t integrate. Personally, I won’t admit that Vince Carter can make a basketball team better until I see it.
Still, it’s a stretch to say that LA or CLE “almost have no chance” if the additions don’t work. Both teams are doing very well roster-wise.
by milt palacio's shot on Aug 28, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Amazing
No one player being amazing means a whole hell of a lot, if so LeBron would’ve at least got to the finals last year. It’s how the pieces fit together that count. Rasheed has always been a complementary player who plays better surrounded by talent. He’s a Super Glue guy. Shaq and VC on the other hand are Stars. They both need good glue guys to make them look good. That’s why Shaq looked good last year because of Steve Nash. Look how many guys Nash has made look great over his career. Who ever left a Steve Nash team and had a better year. Joe Johnson maybe.
Rasheed is the best fit . He’s the only player of these three that does not care about numbers and can let it all be about team. See the Pistons smack down of a superior LA team for the championship. It was as good a smack as we gave them. And here it comes again the clash between team ball and Kobe ball.
Go Celtics!
C's - Beast of the East
There are really writers who are bias and hates the Celtics. For what reason, that I don’t care. Even the NBA don’t like the Celtics and you could feel that. Anyway, Boston to me rank No. 1 among the three powerclubs of the East. The Celtics got back it’s strating five plus their main bench players – - House and the much improve Big Baby. Now their bench just got more solid with Sheed, Shelden and soon Marquis D. Sheed’s outside shooting, defense and swagger will be a huge addition to the C’s frontline and Marquis will be someone they lack when Posey left the team. And what if Shelden found his niche with the Celtics?
I don’t see Shaq will get the Cavs over the hump. Yes at 37, he had an injury free and resurrected career in Phoenix last year but for now he just love to play and have fun. Cleveland needs to be mature and Shaq is not the perfect teacher and complimentary to surround LeBron. Cavs loves to run, O’Neal wants half-court game and the latter have rough history with ex-teammates in running the offense.
And the Magic will not be the same without their “true” leader – - Hedo. They lost three of their starters during last year’s NBA finals push and a big question in Jameer’s health to get back. When Nelson cameback during the finals, they lost their continuity the Magic rode so well under Alston as floor general. They got Vince, Barnes, Bass and J-Will but lost some of their core that brought them to the finals. Practically, the Magic are a new team. And by the way, how’s Rashard?
Hollinger only has the Celtics at #3 because of their age.
Once that variable goes … he’ll have the Celtics right there, or even ahead of, the other two teams.
Age?
Too bad the Celts won`t have “youthful” big men for next year`s playoffs…like, for instance, Cleveland.
Shaq will be 38, and Illgauskas will be 35 next spring!
If you look at Cleveland’s four other starters — Williams is 26 years old, as is Delonte West and Varejao. LeBron James is 24 — the Cavs have only three players over 30 years old, the two you mentioned and Parker … Cleveland’s core is younger than Boston’s.
The Celtics simply have the oldest core in basketball with a 34 year old Ray Allen, 33 year old KG, and 31 year old Pierce … as well as their sixth man in Rasheed Wallace who is 34.
…………………………………………………………………………………….
Do I think Hollinger and others make to big a deal about the C’s age? Absolutely … but the C’s are older than the rest of the field.
Once Hollinger sees the team is healthy, and hasn’t fallen apart due to old age, he’ll upgrade his opinion of the Celtics. For now it’s clouded.
Whenever underrates our team
I feel good about it because I love it when guys like Hollinger goes wrong
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." - Vince Lombardi
PRUITT PRUITT PRUITT
Rasheed is a different type player in a lot of ways. He is just as good as KG right now. Didn’t show it in Detroit because of the dumb moves by Dumars. If KG needs a little time to get right Rasheed will be the starter not Baby.
I don’t see how you can say this. Rasheed just as good as KG? Not even in the same ballpark. Sheed is very skilled but he has declined and he has never played with all that much effort. KG has maximized his gifts, thats not the case with Sheed. And it’s ridiculous to blame a decline on a team. People said the same thing about Marbury.
What evidence, anecdotal or statistical, is there that Rasheed is or has ever been "just as good as KG"?
He’s always had a great physique and an impressive set of talents, and he has made a better-than-solid career out of those assets. That doesn’t make him better – now or prior – than one of the league’s premier players of the last decade and a half.
I think the only way this is true is if KG’s injury recovery issues are far worse than even the worst fears.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Aug 28, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
gotta think daniels plays more 1-2 than the SF this year
honestly think walker will be PP back up
by celticinorlando on Aug 28, 2009 7:15 AM EDT reply actions
I don't see it that way
Daniels played twice as much at the 3 last year as he did at the 2, and he didn’t play any point for Indiana. I see him as a “point forward”, ball handling wing.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I think we’re even or ahead of Orlando but definitely behind Cleveland. We ARE an old team; there is no question about it
Sure we're old...
But Cleveland will rely heavily upon Shaq, Ilgauskas, and Anthony Parker, for instance. They’re a team full of role players, plus Shaq and Lebron. I don’t think we’re far behind them; we finished 4 games back of them in the standings last season, despite playing half the year without KG.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Orlando got better
Vinsanity is an upgrade over Turkoglu, any way you slice it.
by funkstarrdeluxe on Aug 28, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions
Eh...
What about if I slice it in terms of things like defense, effort, chemistry, clutchness and the ability to create a mismatch at the three position due to height?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
vince
For some reason there is this belief amongst everyone that Turkoglu is a clutch player. He is not. In fact, he is quite terrible in clutch situations. In the 08/09 season, he just shot 36% from the floor (only 20% from 3 pt land) in clutch situations (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points). Vince Carter, on the other hand, shot 50% from the floor (50% from 3 pt land), in the same situations.
No, Vince Carter is a Signficant Downgrade
This will become clear 25-30 games into the season.
yah I really couldn't disagree more
I’m suprised more experts aren’t picking this as a flop of a pickup. vince has never shown he can be a winner, only a scorer. he’s quit on his team before, and after that put up “big” numbers through injury plagued years on a bad team.
hedo meanwhile showed on numerous occassions over the past 2 seasons, particularly in their finals run, to be a tremendously clutch player. they will miss him.
agreed
Vince might be a great individual player, but he’s never been a winner. Hedo was a perfect fit on that team, as was Courtney Lee coming off the bench. Now you replace those guys with Vince and Barnes? They are taking a major chance switching up their core, and it could easily backfire if they don’t mesh the same way or if Vince gets injured.
Orlando may have made the finals but in my mind Cleveland and Boston are the clear #1 and 2 teams just for the fact we kept our cores intact.
and don't forget
Rashard Lewis is suspended for the first 10 games of the season, which could be a factor in developing chemistry for a team with so many new players
Vince Carter is a perfect fit for that Orlando team and he will take them to the next level.
He’s exactly what Dwight Howard needed out there on the perimeter. It’s terrifying to think how devastating a Vince, Jameer, Rashard trio will be … along with Howard controlling the paint + defensive end of the court.
Cleveland steps back
Cleveland replaced Ben Wallace with Shaq. Wallace was fading fast, but was still a competent, mobile defender of larger power forwards. He was a legit defender for Garnett. Now, with Shaq, Cleveland is much slower and bigger defensively. Our bigs are great spot up shooters, so this plays in our favor.
Against the C’s, Verejao is now the only matchup for Garnet/Wallace, and Z plays less. Perk matches up better against Shaq than Z. Most importantly, Shaq does not keep the lane clear, making the Lebron bull rush drives much harder.
I see Cleveland taking a step back this year.
Third in the east...
… please, that’s absurd. Did Orlando’s starting five get better or worse? I don’t think Vince Carter makes them better.
where the hell did the "cleveland beat boston" come from?????
we knocked them out last year, and we kicked their asses when KG was healthy
ERR - Celtics haven't won a game in Cleveland in YEARS
Even f KG was healthy last year, the Cavs would have been in the finals due to HCA
by nba is the worst on Aug 29, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
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