Catching Up With Big Baby
by Jeff Clark on Aug 3, 2009 11:03 PM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintJeff Goodman caught up with Glen Big Baby Davis and reveals some interesting info about his status.
First the big news:
According to sources close to the situation, the Celtics brass believes that Davis will be back in Boston next season – either with a multi-year deal worth in the neighborhood of $2 million per year or for a qualifying offer in which Davis would still remain a restricted free agent after next season.
The $2M offer sounds a good deal lower than what he and his agent are looking for, so it is no surprise that he's still looking around. Also, I wasn't aware that he would still be restricted after next year if he only took the qualifying offer.
Next, it does sound like he's got an offer on the table for multiple years from the Celtics.
Davis said he’s fielded interest from several teams, including New Jersey, Charlotte, Cleveland and Detroit – although it seems far-fetched that any of those teams will offer Davis anything more attractive than the multi-year deal that has been proposed by Celtics boss Danny Ainge.
Other notes:
- He wants playing time, but would be patient if he was to return to the Celtics.
- "Many teams – according to multiple sources - are also fearful of his weight issues and inability to play above the rim."
- There's speculation that the Celtics would match up to only $3.5M, but nobody knows for sure.
- Celtics are looking at Shelden Williams as an insurance policy (given recent injuries), not a replacement for Davis.
Related links: What Should the Celtics Offer Glen Davis? | Shelden, I’ll Make You a Deal | Candace Parker Is My New Favorite Celtics Fan | Looking ahead: Free-agent class of 2010 - NBA - ESPN
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thats not bad at all
wouldnt mind having him back that cheap for multiple years – nice move danny
hmm.
I guess this is pretty good news. With bbd comin bac, us gettin sheed and williams, n us hopefully gettin daniels I feel very confident that our bench in going to be the best bench in the league
by IneedTheTruth on Aug 3, 2009 11:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
2 million per year seems...
well below Baby’s market value…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Aug 3, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions
Is it?
If no one else will make him an offer its hard to tell.
He’s a PF who isn’t a shot blocker and doesn’t rebound well. Weight issues also pull down his value.
Offers don't necessarily offer a true gauge of one's worth, especially when they're restricted
A simple comparative survey of similar players and their salaries would be enough:
Let’s see:
Here’s a list of comparable players making more than 3 million at pf/center:
Steven Hunter: 3.6 million in 2009-2010
Kwame Brown: 4 million in 2009-2010
Jason Maxiel: 5 million in 2009-2010
Ronny Turiaf: 4.1 million in 2009-2010
Brian Cook: 3.5 million in 2009-2010
Luis Scola: 3.2 million in 2009-2010
Carl Landry: 3 million in 2009-2010
Marc Gasol: 3.2 million in 2009-2010
Mark Blount: 7.9 million in 2009-2010
Dan Gadzuric: 6.7 million in 2009-2010
Kurt Thomas: 3.8 million in 2009-2010
Amir Johnson: 3.9 million in 2009-2010
Eton Thomas: 7.9 million in 2009-2010
Brian Cardinal: 6.7 million in 2009-2010
Darius Songaila: 4.5 million in 2009-2010
Ryan Gomes: 4 million in 2009-2010
Tony Battie: 6.6 million in 2009-2010
Eduardo Najera: 3 million in 2009-2010
Yi Jianlian: 3.1 million in 2009-2010
Darko Milicic: 7.5 million in 2009-2010
Nick Collison: 6.3 million in 2009-2010
Joel Pryzbilla: 6.8 million in 2009-2010
Kenny Thomas 8.7 million in 2009-2010
Matt Bonner: 3.2 million in 2009-2010
Reggie Evans: 4.9 million in 2009-2010
Andray Blatche: 3 million in 2009-2010
Now don’t you think Baby’s worth at least 3 million a year?
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Aug 3, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Seeing Mark Blount's name...
up there at 7.9 mil. gives me the childls. So glad to be done with him.
In current market, I think Baby's worth 3.5M to 4M per
Whether he gets that is entirely another matter. He’s a lot better than a lot of guys on that list though. It’s a tough year for FAs. I bet Danny would match up to 4M (who really knows, though). For the sake of our salary structure, I hope Danny can get him for say, 3M for a couple of years. Anything less than that and Baby should just take the QO and become unrestricted next year (which is how I thought that worked). Not sure if the article is right in stating that he’d still be restricted if he accepted the QO.
But he IS a restricted free agent
that is a huge factor on his “market value”. You’re worth what someone will pay you, that’s market value. Right now Baby is looking at the QO or 2.5 a year from the C’s.
Sadly looking at this list I might say Baby is just 2.5. Almost everyone on that list rebounds better than BBD. You have to be able to rebound at the 4.
Marc Blount has the essentially the same rebound rate as Davis. 11.7 to 11.9
When did they get those contracts?
Most of them were awarded years ago. Do you still see people paying $500,000 for a 1-bedroom condo? No, that same condo is going for 1/3 the price. There’s at least some correlation here.
BBD is worth what the market bears, and what he ends up producing with that. Some seasons a player’s existing contract is a “steal” (Perkins, Kevin Martin, etc), and other seasons a player is considered overpaid.
As a result, this list is not comparing apples to apples. BBD is worth what he is worth, which is apparently in the neighborhood of $2mil. Perhaps a few years ago he could have gotten double that.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 4, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Overpaid
Many, maybe most of the players on this list are overpayed and there doesn’t seem to be a Celtic among them unless you want to count Blount, who we know was over payed, because, at the time, he was the only Center we had (excluding Perk). Over payed players create problems for Danny because BBD is worth more than many. I agree that 3 mill a year is a reasonable price to pay for Baby.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Based on?
what the market will bear or what you think he is intrinsically worth? Market value is not static but very dynamic and fluctuates frequently. I think the 2 mil deal makes a great deal of sense, Baby will hope for and look for more, but the C’s read on the market is that he won’t get another deal, and if he does, they can match.
Also, in regards to the “a qualifying offer” comment in the article, does that mean the QO they already extended him granting the C’s the right to match or is he talking about a different offer they would make that is more money than the original QO but still keeps Baby a restricted free agent next year?
Its talking about the QO the Celtics already extended
If he takes it he’ll be restricted again. But he’ll be a full bird free agent and thus no longer has the Gilbert Arenas rule to deal with. Not that I expect him to get more than the MLE.
So the Celtics are in a very strong bargaining position.
This is good...
hope we can keep him. I can understand the desire to have playing time considering he played so well when given the chance to start.
great news if marquis and baby get signed now, and then we get any type of back up even if its marbury were prity much the deepest team so far, maybe orlando
Cleveland and Orlando
are at least comparable to the C’s in depth, if not deeper. They both made great moves, as did San Antonio.
I could live with 2mil
Danny’s waiting game is obviously paying off and saving ownership some serious cash. Clearly other teams are hesitant about BBD too. It’s tough being a PF in the NBA when you are a bad rebounder and can’t play above the rim.
sports tonight
u kno wuts painful listening to lou merloni and felger tlk celtics on sports tonight, they dont kno nething about basketball. its makes greg dickerson look like tommy heinsohn
Danny please trade Big Baby for a legit center .
To begin I like Big Baby since he is a physical beast with some pretty good basketball skills and talent.
The only problem is he is undersized to be a day in and day out power forward and center for the C’s
The signing of Sheldon Williams to replace the shorter Powe was a great move and upgrade.
Now the Celtics should try (a sign and trade) and attempt to replace the shorter Big Baby with a legit back up center big man.
Someone like Yi Jianlian from new jersey who has height, length, finally some muscle bulk and good skills would be perfect since he could fill in off the bench in case Perk, Garnett or Rasheed ever get hurt.
We are also even if healthy going to need more height coming off our bench especially come playoff time when we face those larger teams like Orland, Clevland and LA.
Lets go Danny you can make it happen, get a insurance big man for baby, get a back up point and back up small forward and title # 18 is as good as ours.
Yi is a legit center?
What are you talkig about? BBD has his shotcomings, but you don’t sound like you understand the game. Baby can keep big centers out of the paint. He is a great piece to have coming off the bench. Like I have said before I think that he was an important part of the 2008 championship. He kept Gasol out of the paint, and it screwed up the the triangle. Yi couldn’t keep a paper bag out of the paint.
Totally agree.
I regard Yi as a really tall SF. Almost like a Brad Sellers (Chicago, way back when).
Dittos on him being a shooting forward.
(I hadn’t known anyone had thought of him as a center.)
BBD was not important in the playoff 2007-2008 run
He only played in game 6 of the Finals after the game was a clear blow out. How did he keep Gasol out of the paint from the bench?
He never got consistent minutes in the earlier rounds either. Usually he only came in if Perkins/Powe/Brown all had fouls.
williams is only 6’9 not much of a height upgrade
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Aug 4, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Good news...
It really sounds like Big Baby is coming back here and if we can get him for a multi-year deal around 2 million that WOULD BE A STEAL…
Not surprised his weight is a concern
That’s what I thought was holding up a lot of teams from actually offering him a contract. A guy who still isn’t in shape at the end of the season shows a lack of discipline.
Not too mention, as he gets older it may be even harder on his body. Right now he’s young, but at some point he’s gonna have to take Doc’s advice and step away from the table after a bit.
Not to be hung up on his weight, but he’s got good feet for a guy his size – imagine if he actually got into shape….
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
You want to keep him
he’s good in the system,and rebounding wasn’t the major issue with him out there. He has worked real hard on that jumper. He needs to clean up his game around the rim.He does get offensive rebounds.He has trouble putting them in. He needs to work on his low post game a little more.
Interesting
Sounds like Baby is getting the same treatment as a restricted free agent as he did out of college. Just a cold dose of reality. The Cs seem like the best fit for him.
I feel bad for Big Baby not meeting his expected offer/s. But whatever happens, happens I guess.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." - Vince Lombardi
what about the regular families getting laid off?
I’m sure BBD would rather more money, and would look at contracts given to players years ago, but I don’t feel bad for him one bit. He got a championship ring w/o playing in the playoffs, was able to put up some decent playoff numbers this year b/c the system and all-stars around him allow him to get open shots, he doesn’t have the fortitude or drive to be in very good shape, and will still end up making a few million a year to ride the pine. If he bitches about that then I officially don’t want him on this team. He and Latrell Spreewell can go party together then. I’m thankful everyday that I have a good job in a declining market, and know some people who could really use just a 40k / year job.
Sorry to go off on that tangent, but I have trouble feeling at all bad for BBD. He needs to keep working hard this offseason and let the chips fall. His agent should really keep quiet too, as his mouth has actually hurt BBD’s contract potential at times.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 4, 2009 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions
A athlete's time to make money is short
BBD has a legitimate right to try to make as much money as he can. That’sa not bellyaching, it’s just getting paid fairly in your market. You would do the same.
I would fully try to get as much money, but
I wouldn’t go on twitter complaining and feeling disrespected.
I have no pity for BBD. He is overrated in his own head. But then again, hubris/confidence isn’t always a bad thing. He probably wouldn’t have hit that shot in Orlando had he not been so full of himself.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 4, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions
We're all in the same boat.
Contentment is about being grateful for what you have.
Amen.....no kidding
And good posts by surferdad
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Aug 4, 2009 11:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
SERIOUSLY.
He needs to take a big fat step back and take a deep breath of reality.
RFAs usually get screwed
Don’t how that list was put together, but If I had to choose between Gomes at 4 and BBD, I’d take Gomes. This list seems a bit slanted because there are quite a few guys who got what were thought to be ridiculous contracts at the time they were signed on there (Cardinal, Blount, Kwame, E Thomas, Darko, Gadzuric, Songaila).
I don’t disagree about BBD being worth 3 million however.
Jeff Goodman Is Confused
If BBD plays for the QO, he’s unrestricted next June. See Coon’s FAQ #36 and #39.
I believe he would continue to be restricted only if the deadline for accepting the Celtics’ QO (which cannot be before October 1) passes and the QO has neither been accepted or withdrawn.
Unrestricted is correct
He was incorrect. I was going to email him but was unable to do it. I went back and checked myself. (Unless I’m missing an exception of some sort.)
Glen’s free next season if he takes the QO.
Good catch
I wondered that but had no confidence I was correct
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Aug 4, 2009 11:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
keep baby..we need his girth combined with sheed's length
and scal and williams…the bench bigs are good
Spears update:
Cs still interested in RFA Davis, but report they’d match up 2 mid-level offer sheet untrue. $4 million-plus prob danger zone, source said.
http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
why leak that info?
why not keep telling people that the C’s would match up to the MLE?
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
It's probably bad business
to lie about what you’re willing to match.
I'm all for honesty...
but I don’t think GMs are honest, so in that context you have to look for motivation
besides, you have the option of simply saying “we’ll match any reasonable offer” and let the world think what it wants about that …which is what they’ve been doing all along, until the last couple of days (assuming this info comes out of Boston)
I’m just puzzled by it, that’s all
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
It's not really about honesty
It’s about staying on everyone’s good side. What if you have people thinking you’ll match up tto the MLE? If he doesn’t get an offer sheet then his agent would want him to get a contract from you in that range. Offer him much less (after most teams have set their rosters) and what you’ve done will have cost the player (and the agent) a good chunk of money.
Would that bother DA?
Me thinks no
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Aug 4, 2009 11:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I Think He's Worth 3.5 million, Max Three-Year Deal
I would not match above that.
yeah...3.5 mil is about the limit i think...anything high needs to be him
going in a sign and trade
by celticinorlando on Aug 4, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Sheed
This is a question: Forgetting about money for the moment, how do you think the signing of Wallace affects Baby. Wallace will be the 4 off the bench and at that position is a better player than Baby. I see Baby’s role mainly as a backup Center against bigger, less mobile Centers. That was his role, along with Leon, last year. He played the 4 after injuries to KG and Scals. So when it comes to monetary value to the C’s is Baby worth 3.5 mill? He would be if we can’t get a better backup Center. {I’m purposely keeping Wallace out of consideration for backup Center, because I think he has more value at the 4. Also, like KG he won’t need to take the beating a Center needs to take}
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
He's worth 3.5 million
As long as it’s Wyc’s money
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Aug 4, 2009 11:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's worth what the current market is willing to pay him
And so far, no team has made an offer. The word is out there that Boston would match any offer up to $3.5m.
BBD’s big problem is that two-thirds of the teams are not FA buyers this summer. Detroit, Toronto, and Portland had some cap room, and they used it up quickly. There was some interest in Detroit, but they’re already paying a short PF, Maxiel.
If Baby plays for the Qo, he risked a season he plays few minutes, which might hamper him in full free agency next summer. The smart move is to take a 4/$10m deal with Boston, with the fourth year at BBD’s option. ‘Sheed probably won’t play in year three, so BBD can put in a good contract year and then opt to be a FA at age 26.
Way too much to pay for Davis
Okay, can we come back down to earth for a bit… It seems the General Managers have…
Glen Davis played well in the playoffs, but lets not get carried away here as well. What option was Davis in the offense???? First option is Paul Pierce and Ray Allen with the second option being Rondo…
Teams were not focussed on Glen Davis as much for that matter. Teams let Davis roam and do his thing because they were more focused on not letting Pierce and Allen beat you
In my mind Davis is no more than a 2.5 million dollar player AT BEST. We tend to over value our players in this town. Yes Davis brings much energy to the court, but by no means is he a game changer.
Davis was a second round selection. How come so many other teams passed on him at the time of the draft and why do you think he hasn’t received any offers yet (3.5 million and higher) because he’s not worth that type of money
Toss out the draft selection.
I buy everything you say apart from that. Yeah, no one wants to offer him a deal that they think the C’s won’t match; no one can dispute that. BBD being a 2nd round selection doesn’t really mean much, though. Wasn’t Tom Brady a sixth round draft pick, which is low even for the NFL? : )
I can’t think of any low draft pick turned great NBA player/HoF level, but you get the picture….I do think BBD isn’t worth more than 3.5M too, and chances are teams won’t give him that.
but
the longer we wait…the more the price goes down…
people were calling for us to sign him ASAP, but Danny and co. have obviously handled this situation pretty well
It's funny the heated debates about BBD..
when in the end we’re talking about someone who will probably play 8 minutes a game or less based upon the current roster. That’s approximately 3% of all minutes per game for the Celtics.
I’m very content with our starting roster and 2-3 next bench players. Feels good to say that.
I’ll be happy with whatever ownership/ainge does to fill niche rolls and insurance options in case of injury…. provided that it doesn’t adversely affect future signings (financially)
Seriously, can you even believe people really care this much about BBD?
Someone brings up a Rondo trade and everyone is like… sweet get CP3 or this person, or that person, bring in these 4 players… blah blah blah
Someone brings up Big Baby and it’s like we are talking about Micheal Jordan.
For the life of me, I don’t get it.
10-15 MPG Unless Perkins' Shoulder Goes Out Again
Then BBD will be playing 25 mpg and we’ll all be delighted that we have him.
Take his rebounding #s with a grain of salt
When Baby’s on the court, our team rebounding is still very strong, which leads one to assume that Baby’s doing his job—boxing his man out—but not getting the stats that usually come along with it…
Also, historically Baby’s offensive rebounding #s are very good—which leads me to believe it’s a matter of opportunity and desire—when he wants a rebound, he can get one. On the defensive boards, there’s no use in really going that hard for a rebound if a teammate is going to get it anyway…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Aug 4, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
For more than 2-3mil a year and only a few weeks of consistent play to judge him by, we’re giving BBD to many grains of salt.
He averaged 9.7 points a game on 47% shooting since January 4th 2009
Not including the #s he put up in the playoffs.
Only a few weeks of consistent play? HA! You’re a hater stevenfuzz
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Aug 4, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to see him back
He’s particularly effective against the 2 teams we’ll battle in the East. He’s effective at bodying up the behemoth centers and forcing them into taking shots going away from the basket. He’s effective against Z, and Howard, and I suspect, to a lesser degree, Shaq. With Perk’s shoulder history, and our near AARP aged future hall of famers in front of him, he’ll get his time.
He’s a solid role player, but more importantly, his unusual body type and game is particularly useful against the behemoths that are on our biggest conference rivals.
Look Baby is an undersized PF who doesn’t have much in the way of hops. He’ll never be a good rebounder. He’ll never be good at finishing around the basket. He’ll always be at a disadvantage against anyone 6’9" and above. If he can continue with the jumper he’ll earn a $3 million a year salary. Any more than that and we will regret it. We will not chase down BBD. Let him come to us..
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