'Toine's Shine and Blackout

Here it is: http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/08/toine%e2%80%99s-shine-and-blackout/

It’s also shocking, in reading the Kevin Henkin article, that we’re already at the stage where we can only look back nostalgically at the Powe/Davis debate.

He didn’t care that he could’ve been the greatest power forward to play.

Bob Ryan of the Globe hit the nail on the head many years ago about Antoine. The most disgustingly selfish, egotistic, piece of drek that has ever played for us. It absolutely irritates me to think he was ever a Celtic. His end now is most fitting and predicted by non other than Red Auerbach years ago. He would never listen to anyone. HE THOUGHT HE WAS THE GREATEST. NEVER LOST WEIGHT, NEVER PLAYED OFF THE BOX, NEVER TRIED REBOUNDING SERIOUSLY, A ONE MAN BAND. How can we keep dragging his memory up for us to look at? God help us all. Get him off these pages fast.

i was never an antoine man-too many 3’s, not enough grit, too many missed layups. he was an enigma, lots of talent and smarts and then too many misses and dumb or selfish plays. too many memories of the failed pitino era. was he a bad role model for pierce? maybe.

Yeah, on what planet?
It certainly wasn`t Earth!

Trouble with `Toine was….his I.Q. matched his uniform number {8}!

Sheed has won a championship, played in 2 finals, played in 8 conference finals…um thats pretty good for an underachiever if you ask me

by Boston fans. He had a GREAT rookie season that gave so much hope and promise for starving Celtics fans. He never lived up to any of it. The fact that this writer even remotely compares him to Scottie Pippen (who absolutely was one of the Top 50 if not higher players of all time) is a joke. He did it not once but TWICE.

Furthermore, to even intimate that the arrival of a far superior player (in every way) of Paul Pierce contributed to Walker’s decline is absurd. Apparently SLAM will publish anything.

Tone,

Was very emblematic of the generation of players who came up in the early to mid 90s. They were mostly selfish ball hogs. Worse they never were comfortable with their games. And they never understood their strengths and limitations. Tone could have been a great low post player and rebounder had he worked at just that. But instead of acepting what he was, he wanted to be a jack of all trades. He wanted to handle the ball, play on the outside, and shoot threes. Tone thus became a chucker.

Imagine if Kevin Mchale (not to say that Tone had McHale’s ability) had refused to go to the blocks and instead stood around and jacked up threes. McHale would have never been anything but a frustraiting enigma just like Tone. One of the biggest reasons Shaq was by far the best player of that generation was that he was the one super talented guy who understood who he was. Shaq never pretended to be anything but the biggest and badest center there was. He never cared to do anything except destroy people down low. Sadly, the rest of his generation was largely a bunch of knuckleheads who never understood how to play the game well at the professional level.

It has to start with M.L. Carr and giving him the keys to the building before he earn it. Antoine never had any direction coming into the league. No Veteran to steer him in the right direction. He was basically told “Here Kid, go with it” and for that matter he picked up many bad habits.

Problem with Antoine was that he should have had Pat Riley as his first Coach ever coming out of college.

He wanted to be Michael Jordan before even playing a game. Sad because the kid had talent, but not the brain to match.

When he was drafted in 1996 Toine played witht he likes of Marty Conlon, Dee Brown, Frank Brickowski, Pervis Ellison(what a great player he was, YIKES), Stacey King, Alston Lister, Greg Minor.

So you can see who his role models were and how his career began, maybe that’s why M.L. Carr gave him the keys right away

I loved Antoine’s passion, goofiness & general enthusiasm for the game. He had skills that most 6’9" players don’t possess, but he never seemed to drop his streetball style. Defense, the right pass, and looking for a better shot always seemed to be last on his check list.

To me the biggest flaws in AW’s game were his unwillingness to play in the post and his horrible FT percentage. Those 2 things were definitely tied together.

His infamous 3 shooting was once lauded by an opposing coach. “When we played against the Celtics, we hoped ‘Toine would hit hit 1st three. That meant he’d take 10 or 12 more and maybe hit 2 of them.”

Here’s hoping Toine can get himself out of trouble and give something back to the game & the community.

Twoine could have been a great tall point guard. He lacked the athleticism to be a great power forward, but had all the other tools. It’s too bad that he was addicted to the three ball.

I think im the only one who actually enjoyed watching Toine play.

’Toine had the skills, if he ever learned to properly utilze them, to redefine what it meant to be a power forward. Would he ever be the best to play the position? No – but if he was ever able to put the pieces together, the abilility to shoot, to play inside, to rebound, to handle the ball, to get his teammates involved – we saw him do all of those things to some degree, but it never really became conhesive.

He could shoot, but took too many dumb shots.

He could rebound, until he got fat.

He could play inside, until he lost his hops and fell in love with those stupid 3-pointers.

He could pass, but made too many stupid passes, going for the flair over the substance.

He could handle the ball, but not quite well enough.

He could play D (at least team D), when he wanted to.

I’m going to disagree with the author’s premise that it was because he didn’t care, though; I don’t think Antoine honestly knew what it took to MAKE himself better, or understood that he NEEDED to get better. He thought he could do it all, but didn’t think he needed to put in the work to keep himself in shape.

I blame Antoine’s failure to ultimately realize his potential – to be potentially the most well-rounded forward since Larry – on Antoine’s stupidity, not his “not caring.” He CARED about winning, he just didn’t/doesn’t understand what it really takes.

Antoine Walker is the type of player nearly everyone likes at a certain age. Then at a later age, you can’t abide the latest version of him. It’s best not to be too proud about when you made that particular transition.

He was better than Raef LaFrentz.

I appreciate Antoine Walker and his time with the Celtics. At his prime, he could have been great. Up until maybe, 2003, he was very much like Paul Pierce. He was never going to be the best forward in the league, but he was able to be the best player in any given game. They guy simply got Lazy and started hoisting 3 point shots. Before Lebron James, I don’t know very many guys his size that can pretty much beat anyone off the dribble, including Magic Johnson. Had he kept himself in shape, the guy could have been great. I was sad to see him go. The guy was a good leader and that seemed to motivate him, but he just created too many bad habits in his game. With that, he had no choice but to be a support guy, and it seems like he simply let himself go from there.

One thing people fail to mention is how much he loved being a Celtic. He fully understood the tradition and he considered it an honor to wear the green jersey. I may be in the minority here. But I gotta wonder how if the naysayers are talking about the Antoine before 2003? Or after 2003? The article is definitely talking before 2003. So yeah, the comments do make sense.

He could have been so much better than he turned out to be. He played like a godsend his rookie year—-looking like the steal of the draft over more heralded players like Iverson, Marbury and Ray Allen.

Great rebounder—particularly on the offensive boards, solid fundamentals, terrific passer and ballhandler, could actually score in the paint and the desire to win and be a team leader. Best player drafted since Reggie. Had the tools to put the Bias-dreams to rest.

Then, (dramatic evil background music), Pitino showed up and turned him into a first-class chucker. No more offensive rebounds. No more post work. Declining fundamentals.

Some of the blame for his decline will always fall on Toine for not progressing but the person that turned him from a highly skilled prospect to an out-of-control young player was Pitino.

I appreciate him for his desire to want to be a Celtic his entire career and his will to win (when he wanted tono way the C’s come back in that NJ playoff game without Antoine willing them to victory and instilling that drive in Pierce for that come back against the Lakers in last year’s finals) as well as his community work but he would frustrate the hell out of me with his boneheaded shots and passes that could take the team right out of the game.

Quick Note: the commentary says “Isn’t it great to have no Celtics on the overpaid list …?” Well, Rasheed Wallace was in the top 10 on the overpaid list, so technically, we do have one of the most overpaid from last year. Of course, the reduced salary and better team should remove him from that list.

Don’t make me laugh please.

Feb. 19, 2002

He banked in a crazy 3-pointer, with one second to play, to beat the Lakers at Staples…109-108.

I think ‘toine was too talented for his own good. He could dribble like a pg, could shoot from outside, but his biggest asset was his ability to rebound. He was a very fundamentally sound rebounder and could rebound, because of this, without really having to jump. Larry was a terrific rebounder and he couldn’t jump. ‘Toine had that same ability. The problem is that he didn’t realize that this is how he could best help the team or he didn’t want to. I think alot of this goes to the coaching at the time. When he was drafted I remember Larry saying he would be a good player if he rebounded.