Baby And C's Discussing 2-3 Year Deals
by Jeff Clark on Aug 7, 2009 6:27 AM EDT
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63 comments
According to the Herald, Big Baby hasn't received an offer sheet. Perhaps it is semantics, but it should be noted that he probably has discussed numbers with a number of clubs and might even have a few verbal numbers from the Celtics, but once again, nothing in writing. Here's the report from the Herald:
The power forward, a restricted free agent, has not received an offer sheet from another team this summer, and only recently started talking actual numbers with the Celtics, who reportedly made an offer than was not deemed acceptable by the Davis camp. Negotiations are now focused on a contract that will cover from two to three years.
To me it sounds like he is willing to accept that he's not going to get a knock-your-socks-off offer from another team. He knows he has no leverage with the Celtics and isn't getting them to go any higher. He could still take the qualifying offer and play the field next year but there's always a risk of injury. So perhaps the best idea is to take a 2 or 3 year deal at middle-of-the-road money and see if his career takes off after that. I would speculate that he's probably looking for a player option on the 3rd year to give himself flexibility.
From a career standpoint, it might make the most sense anyway. He stepped up big last year when called upon, but he's got some holes in his game he needs to work on. On the Celtics, with Sheed added to the roster, he can expect to be pushed down the depth chart again. However, as the vets age over the next few years Doc is going to need to lean on the younger legs more and more. If Baby can improve his game, he might be in position to take over when the old guard moves on.
We'll see how this plays out. It looks like Ainge read the market right and was correct in believing that Davis would be back. It seems like we haven't seen any sign-and-trade deals that all parties are happy with, so the most simple solution is probably the best one.
In other roster news, there is no other roster news. I find it interesting that Shelden Williams hasn't signed a contract yet or been introduced at a press conference yet. It's not that I think he's not going to sign. I just think that Ainge is keeping his last few roster spots flexible. He still has to work out a deal for Daniels or sign him outright. It sounds like the Cavs aren't interested in Bowen any longer, so he may be another option. Danny still has to find a backup point guard. Maybe a trade will happen that requires us to take back an extra body. Perhaps he won't be able to move Tony Allen for anything but a protected 2nd rounder and he's exploring all his other options first.
We may find out all the answers next week or we may have to wait till training camp before we find out for sure. So by all means, keep checking CelticsBlog 10 times a day to find out more!
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Kudos to Danny
he’s proven how to treat BBD, who will wear green again for the money he deserves, nothing else.
by geneconley on Aug 7, 2009 6:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two, three years at middle of the road money sounds like a good deal for both parties.
I prefer team options rather than player options, but we take it for now if that is the only way we sign him.
by CfanMissippi on Aug 7, 2009 7:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Finally some new that actually sounds legit
All this twitter talk was getting ridiculous. Even the radio talking heads like Glen Ordway fell for it.
Sounds like BBD is coming back and that’s good news. He knows the system and provides a different look of the bench than Shelden. That said, they will fight for scraps of minutes behind Sheed. Competition is good, will make both players better.
by Surferdad on Aug 7, 2009 7:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PG is the Issue, not BBD
I wish the media would focus on available PG options, whether through sign & trades, Free Agency, etc. A backup PG will actually matter on this team. BBD should get no more than 6 to 8 minutes each game, and if he’s getting anywhere near 15 to 20 minutes due to injuries of other bigs then this team is rather doomed in the playoffs.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 7:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Since when is having a fourth big a luxury?
You need at least 4 PF/Cs. Most teams carry 5!
We really don’t want Shelden Williams being our fourth big….
by Fafnir on Aug 7, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having a 4th big is not a luxury, when taking into account what our first 3 bigs in the depth chart are, signing a big additionally to Scal of Baby’s skills and talent is the luxury… even more so with Shelden here.
With KG-Perk-Sheed, the most important part is to add depth, not to add talent. Of course, you go after the most talented guy within a reasonable price for the role they’ll play, but we don’t go throwing cash around as if it were an urgent need to get someone like Baby for that role.
by BudweiserCeltic on Aug 7, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree budweiser
And in adding depth, it’s more important that the Celtics (and media/blogs, etc) focus on adding PG depth. This whole notion that BBD is vital to the Celtics upcoming season is bull. What is “important” is having a serviceable and affordable backup to the backup big… whether that be baby or sheldon. I’d be fine with sheldon..
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd be fine with Sheldon...
Over Big Baby? You mean for the right price based on both players, right?
Additionally, I figured Rasheed Wallace would be the direct back-up to Perkins, while BBD would be the backup to KG. You don’t like BBD and Wallace on the court at the same time, do you?
Anyways, we all know BBD’s better than Sheldon. Don’t insult BBD.
And, there’s still time to get that PG….and yes, I will still take Marbury, again, FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.
by Tai on Aug 7, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We all know?
Sheldon may not have a better jumpshot , but I think he’d have more value on the 2nd unit. Either way, it’s close to a tossup.
I don’t want BBD as the primary backup to KG. I think that’s awful. Why do Perk & KG have to come out at the same time? If all 3 of them plays 30 minutes that pretty much 0 minutes for other bigs.
I’m fine with Marbury too.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Baby is a lot better depth piece than most FAs
Because he can play the 4 and the 5 against most match ups. Danny is right to focus on figuring out what to do with BBD before he goes fishing on the scrap heap of vet min. pgs.
I don’t think we should overpay for him, but we shouldn’t focus on a PG like Tom seems to want.
by Fafnir on Aug 7, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a buyer's market
Let’s not go crazy about how Danny has handled Big Baby’s situation. He was holding the big cards in a buyer’s market. The number for Big Baby is coming into view. It’s $3 mil per. Less would invite a chip on the player’s shoulder, more is not necessary. Number of years..I wouldn’t go less than 3 or more than 4. But….I’m just blogging.
Danny is at the top of his game. He put a tough player’s coach to them, was supportive of excellent assistants, he drafts pretty well and he juggles the salary cap as well as any.
As far aas PG, I think between Eddie, daniels, Hudson (a stretch) we’ve got enough bacing up Rondo to go to camp and probably to mid season when some decent players will be available.
by Wildblu1 on Aug 7, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why bid 3 million when no one else is bidding?
With a shrinking cap, this is not the time to overspend when you don’t have to.
by Wide Load on Aug 7, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daniels isn't a point guard
He is more of a wing player, and can create his own shot. I’m not sure I’d rely on him for distribution.
by funkstarrdeluxe on Aug 7, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just Daniels
Wildblu1 is making the point (no pun intended) that there are 3 guys (Daniels, (House, Hudson) who can back up Rondo. That’s at least as much as the C’s had last year. Lack of a true backup PG was not the reason the C’s didn’t get farther in the playoffs.
by Surferdad on Aug 7, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
It was primarily the fact that BBD was the primary backup to KG. At least now with Rasheed we have that covered. Now we need the backups for Pierce/Allen & Rondo.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Ainge played this perfectly huh?
by rickyfan3.0... on Aug 7, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with WILDB’L the problem is I dont believe Danny is offering those figures “$3-4 mil per”.
If not those firgure he should take the qualifying offer play and play out this year and get paid what he is really worth. Everone say’s this is only business and it is…well wait until next year when there will really be money on the table and get paid. He could make over 5 million next year. The risk of getting injured is nothing more than what any player goes through from the beginning of your career. He has to have that same deep seeded belief in himself that everything will workout fine.
I think Sheldon Williams with proper coaching from Clifford Ray will be our power forward of the future. Sheldon has not had an effective big man coach since he’s been in the NBA. The type of player that wants to play in the paint get rebounds block shots thats what coach C.Ray excel’s at coaching. “Perk, Powe”
by tyquinton on Aug 7, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What he is really worth?
And what is that based on? He is only worth what someone is, or is not, willing to pay. He has no intrinsic value beyond this. Supply and demand determine his #, not some made up, what sounds reasonable to a fan #. Waiting until next year may result in a better situation for Baby, on the other hand, it may not. The market next summer is far from certain at this point. Unless a team feels like they can slot in Baby as their starting PF for 35 min a game, nobody is going to pay the guy big $, restricted or not.
If Baby signs for 2, or even 3 years at even 2 million/yr., it is still a decent raise for him, and he will still be young when the deal expires with the reasonable expectation if he plays well, to get a good deal at that time. In the meantime, he needs to keep working on his game, help the team, and it will all work out for him in the end. I see no reason Danny should pay, let’s say, 3, or 4 million, based on some simplistic notion that that is what he is worth. If nobody else is offering that, then 2-2.5 is not low at all, but simply reflective of the current market.
by KJ33 on Aug 7, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This summer isn't necessarily predictive
Don’t take his lack of offers this summer to indicate that he will not receive offers next summer. A big part of the reason he has felt so unwanted this summer is that he’s a restricted free agent and teams are worried about having there money tied up for a week, only to have the Celtics match in the end.
by dslack on Aug 7, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If not mistaken, he’s also restricted next year.
by BudweiserCeltic on Aug 7, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no he is not
assuming he takes the qualifying offer this year. But, if he signs a multi year deal then he’d definitely be tied in to the Celtics, obviously.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie “scale” contracts for first round draft picks (see question number 41). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend the player’s rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency. "
Baby would’ve played his third season after this year, so he should still be a restricted free-agent. Unless I read somewhere that a player can only be a restricted player once, then I have to assume Baby would still be restricted. Need better info on this.
by BudweiserCeltic on Aug 7, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you only get one Qualifying Offer, which makes you restricted, and any time you take the qualifying offer you are a UFA the following year. There are slightly different rules for 2nd round draft picks vs. first round picks.
by Fan from VT on Aug 7, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like I might’ve found a good example. Ryan Hollins seems to have been a restricted free-agent in 2008 and in 2009:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ryan_hollins/index.html
by BudweiserCeltic on Aug 7, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next year won't find bigger offers
If the cap drops again for next year, as it is supposedly rumored to do… BBD is going to find even less offers out there as the bigger name free agents will likely scoop up all the cash unless he can prove he is worth more than some of the notables who will be free agents next year.
by funkstarrdeluxe on Aug 7, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
Good job Mr. Danny Ainge =)
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." - Vince Lombardi
by wild-a on Aug 7, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed he's played BBD's agent like a fiddle.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Aug 7, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever .....as long as Baby isn't transformed into...
Blount (hateful. lazy, stupid, and a cancer).
Baby wanted to make this a pure 100% business deal……and that’s what he got. Now he needs to strap back on that oversized diaper and make sure he doesn’t stink it up.
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Aug 7, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lol made me laugh
But I doubt BBD will turn into Blount, ever. baby’s too stubborn and I don’t see him getting lazy, except for the possible weight issue.
On the other hand, I doubt baby will ever be as good as Blount when he tried hard.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BBD not better than blount.
Sterling.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Aug 7, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when Blount tried hard..
like I said, when Blount tried hard, he was better than BBD.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im glad we got baby and all
But we still need a back up point guard! If we could get Daniels and a back up pg our line up would be solid. Can someone make a list of back up point guards we could get? Thanks
by jfarias on Aug 7, 2009 9:47 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
what's Danny up to?
doesn’t anyone else think it is odd that Shelden hasn’t signed yet?
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Aug 7, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't start this day off by getting me paranoid re trades and feelings of a conspiracy
I am still trying to sort thru the moon landings….
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Aug 7, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
ok, I’ll hold off until Tanguay’s gut speaks up again
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Aug 7, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*rumble rumble*
It’s making me paranoid too lol. I loved the Sheldon signing when you consider what was available, and the roll he’d fill. I like how Ainge doesn’t perceive this as “we need to sign BBD”, but instead his mentality has been “we need to fill that spot with a servicable big”.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
People could be on vacation, Danny likes group signing press conferences, Danny’s working on alot of stuff at once. As the Master notes, are we able to trade Williams today or is there a waiting period before he can be traded?
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
by TrueGreen on Aug 7, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
press conference?
He could sign Williams today and have the press conference in November if he wants. Wanting to have a group press conference is not a reason not to conduct business.
by dslack on Aug 7, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As soon as I post "moon landings" my new Mentor shows up
hahahaha
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Aug 7, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Fax Machine Is Down
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
by TrueGreen on Aug 7, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It May Just Be . . .
that Danny is still doing business, and that he wants to avoid questions on players whose situations are not determined. He wants the focus to be on the players that will be signed.
Out of pure curiosity, why the concern about players not signing contracts and not having press conferences? Is there a precedent of players verbally agreeing and then saying no? Would teams begin recruiting these players ‘after’ they’ve made a commitment to a team? I just don’t see it as a problem. The players would get a bad rap, and so would the teams.
by amenhotep04 on Aug 7, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AncientBlog.Com
A hot rumor just in! Danny is talking to John Stockton about making a comeback. Apparently the sticking point (pun) is that John wants to start and Danny wants him as a mentor and backup for RR.
by Dipper on Aug 7, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Sheldon Williams does a great job in the "paint"......
Will he be referred to as Sherwin Williams?
by Title 18 on Aug 7, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
you can bet your bottom dollar
I’m using that as a title sometime
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Aug 7, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Backup PG
Whatever happened to pursuing Tyronn Lue?
by evrock on Aug 7, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
tyronn lue
maybe because he’s not talented any more
HARDLYYARDLEY
by hardlyyardley on Aug 7, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah he's awful
Marbury would be more valuable than him, sadly.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brevin Knight
Sign him up, Danny, sign him up.
by Greenteam'76 on Aug 7, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
?
Brevin Knight
Tyronn Lue
Anthony Carter
Steve Francis
Allen Iverson
Stephon Marbury
Jamal Tinsley
Who would fit us best?
by jfarias on Aug 7, 2009 12:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
jamal tinsley but prob not coming here, prob marbury
by celtics94 on Aug 7, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anthony carter is a good backup but hes prob going to re sign with orlando, plus i think we need to try n get a little younger n not sign another 33+ year old pg
by celtics94 on Aug 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Carter is not the player from Orlando. He’s from Denver.
I don’t see him signing a minimum contract other than in Denver.
by BudweiserCeltic on Aug 7, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, what I think gets lost in the BBD discussion....
is how DA was able to be so confident in “We’ll let the market determine Baby’s value”. There is no doubt that DA’s “kicking the tires” GM style gives him this kind of market insight. Before the trading deadline last year and the start of FA this year, I’m sure BBD was included in dozens of proposed deals. If a team wouldn’t take him for (Player X), then that would provide a good estimation of his worth. That may very well be what was behind shopping Rondo this year that left most fans and analysts perplexed and critical. Rondo will be in the same restricted situation.
by djLaysItIn on Aug 7, 2009 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great point
I never really thought about it that way, at least in terms of him accurately determining BBD’s value prior to free agency.
That said, I don’t think Rondo will be in quite the same situation. Teams won’t be hesitant to offer Rondo a contract, etc. What Rondo brings to the court is many levels above BBD.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 7, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed....
Rondo is on a different talent level than BBD. But word around the league and from popular media (Simmons included) Rondo was worth a max contract after his playoff performance last year. There are currently 14 max contract players (Brandon Roy would make 15) in the league. Is Rondo in that category? Everything is relative. There is no harm in gauging the league’s interest in our players if they have the ego to handle it. Rondo talks the confident game, he should be poised to prove it on the court. I believe it was Roy Hobbs that gave a compelling argument to waiting on a contract extension with Rondo. Rondo has admitted to disagreeing with Doc on the court and associated that with being a ‘great player’. A reality check may have well been in order from the team’s perspective.
by djLaysItIn on Aug 8, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well played, Danny.
Now, let’s see what kind of deal he gets. But I’m sure it will be reasonable. Good job, Danny.
by Ritzybeanboy on Aug 7, 2009 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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