GM of JV Celtics Messed up Big Time
Outside of old pal Zeke, has an NBA GM make such an egregious mistake as Kahn just did with Rubio? The final chapter of the Ricky Rubio saga has come into public view, and wow. Just wow.
"On Saturday night, an agreement was reached between Dan Fegan, the agent for Ricky Rubio, Jordi Villacampa, the president of Joventut Badalona, and myself on behalf of the Minnesota Timberwolves to buy out the last two years of Ricky´s contract with Joventut so that he could play in the NBA next season.
While the term sheet was being finalized Monday night, Ricky informed me that, despite considering us his first option the previous weekend - and, admittedly, after some back and forth throughout the summer -- he preferred to stay at home to play for FC Barcelona, which earlier this summer had made a buyout offer to Joventut. He also reaffirmed that it was his intention to join us in Minnesota two years from now when he will be 20.
This morning I met with Ricky and his parents and told them that I understood Ricky´s decision. It was clear to me yesterday and in this morning´s meeting that the pressure surrounding Ricky and his family to remain in Spain for at least two more years had only intensified as the summer wore on and was weighing heavily on them.
The NBA is the best basketball league in the world, by far. As an 18-year-old man, Ricky would have been challenged on a nightly basis to a degree he has never experienced. In order for Ricky to meet this challenge fully, I believe it is important that his family and other people important to him were comfortable with the move to the NBA and fully supportive.
I also agreed with Ricky´s position that two more years of competition in Spain and the Euroleague will only aid his development and that he will be much more ready for the NBA when he joins us.
Kahn traded Mike Miller and Randy Foye to the Wizards for Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila and Oleksiy Pecherov (who?) plus a player option for Rubio in two years. By saying: "Ricky would have been challenged on a nightly basis to a degree he has never experienced," Kahn just admitted that Rubio, the all-world point guard isn't ready for the big time anyway, even if he was in uniform. Epic Fail D.Kahn.
Doesn't this quote from Ricky also make you warm and fuzzy about his desire to join the T-Wolves in two years?
The Minnesota Timberwolves continue to be my first option and I wish to play with them in the near future."
Faaan-tastic. The Wolves are your first option! Hooray! Or Ricky can force a trade, which will be for pennies on the dollar as the Wolves now have ZERO leverage. Or maybe Ricky will just wait it out and go back in the draft once the Wolves' claim lapses (I think this is the case, I'm sure some rule guru will tell me I'm wrong though).
David Kahn just destroyed a huge opportunity to bring the Wolves back into anything resembling a relevant basketball team.
I feel terrible for Wolves fans and for Big Al and Ryan. You all deserve better than this pure incompetence from your organization.
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124 comments
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Comments
Huh?
What´s the problem?
There´s a reason why the Wolves picked two Point Guards in a row, and why Rubio slipped to the 5th pick in the first place…everyone knew he would most likely stay in Europe.
Kahn didn´t blew this pick, he invested it.
And no reason to hate on Rubio, imo, the guy would have to pay his own buyout if he wanted to play in the NBA. No matter how you slice it, this is the best possible scenario for everyone involved.
Well, except for Big Al…
by Casperian on Sep 1, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree. what exactly was the "epic fail"
khan whent over there to spain several times to go get him and make it happen. in the end it sounds like rubio just wanted to be in spain more than u.s.
was the problem that he drafted him in the first place? its not kahn’s fault rubio fell that low.
by mandoman10 on Sep 1, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole saga is the failure for Kahn, not just the last 48 hours. There are other players available that could help the Wolves
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Casperian & mandoman10
Of course Kahn screwed up. It’s very stupid to raft a guy #5 if you know that he probably won’t play for you, his buyout is too high, or you won’t trade him. He wasted the pick and wasn’t savvy enough to turn it into something else. Just because he fell “low,” doesn’t mean you take him. That makes no sense.
Not only that but he robbed the NBA of an asset. David Stern has got to be pissed that a young international star isn;t playing in the USA because of a new GM’s stupidity.
I have to give it to Bill Simmons , he was correct in his twitter today:
“Rubio needed big market endorsement $$$ to buy out other deal. LA-NY-Chi-Hou-etc. Minny couldn’t work. Kahn messed up. Shoulda flipped him.”
Kahn knew it, and still messed it up.
by wondahbap on Sep 1, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As SalmonAndMashedPotatoes said...
…it´s about perspective. I have no idea how you come to the assumption that Rubio doesn´t want to play for the Wolves.
The new contract he signed allows him to leave for the NBA in two years for free.
Even if he really doesn´t want to play for the Wolves, he definitly wants to play in the NBA, and the Wolves hold his rights. They didn´t lose anything, they grabbed a steal at pick #5.
by Casperian on Sep 1, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't want to play for the Wolves enough that he is willing to wait it out.
They lose his rights in 3 years.
by wondahbap on Sep 1, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Wolves...
hold his rights indefinitely. Where do you get your information from?
by nextmove on Sep 4, 2009 6:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
The OP shows little understanding of the strategic elements involved in the selection on draft night, nor an understanding of the value Rubio represents over the next two years as he matures as a player in Europe…Minny got a great “now” PG in Flynn and can watch his value increase over the same time Rubio’s does in Europe…patience allows Kahn to hold all the cards…
…Epic “win” IMO…
by BillfromBoston on Sep 1, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only a good pick in fantasy basketball.
By trading Foye and Miller’s expiring deal for essentially nothing over the next two years, Kahn has almost guaranteed that the Tpups are going to be even worse this coming season. If Flynn is a bust they could be hugely worse.
1. How much does it hurt the team financially to be playing in a 1/2 to 3/4s empty home arena over the next two years?
2. What if Big Al decides he doesn’t want to waste two more years of his career, and then however many more after that it take Rubio to fully deveop, and demands a trade?
It’s one thing to draft Larry Bird and then wait a year. It’s another thing to draft a guy who wasn’t even the best player in one of the weakest drafts in recent years and have to wait two years, at which point he may decide he doesn’t want to play in the NBA at all.
Mike
by MBunge on Sep 1, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't really see why anything has changed
they drafted the guy based on his potential, and knew he may stay in spain for a while even though he clearly wants to play in the NBA.
they have his rights as long as he plays professionally, and assuming he develops, they can either trade him or sign him. i don’t see how leverage has been lost.
the article makes very little sense to me. this is one reason they also drafted johnny flynn ~ kahn is trying to acquire assets. Rubio is still one.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe you should take this down off the front page
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There's no reason for non-constructive criticism...
Please, critique the heck out of the piece, but there’s no need to be insulting.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Sep 1, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where is the insult? the request was directed to Green17 directly.
it’s a questionable interpretation of the news based strictly in opinion and it seems more suited to the forums. am i incorrect?
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
It’s an opinion piece. I don’t take it as an insult, but it was a foolish comment.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the wolves could only offer $500K to a $7.5M buyout when they drafted him
they knew what they were doing. they drafted flynn for this very reason. you sure you think you have the situation straight?
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.....
its ok if we disagree. I think the whole thing was a mistake and now they’re in trouble. so yes, to answer your question,.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
articles can't have opinion?
I need to shut down the site then
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's just set up a news clipping svc and pack it in.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i always assumed the front page was for news, or at least, analysis
this article is neither and not very well thought through
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Front page is for whatever the site mods want it to be for.
Your disagreement doesn’t mean it isn’t well thought out. Green17 is right.
by wondahbap on Sep 1, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is this not analysis?
because you don’t agree?
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
because it sounds a bit like a “Let´s hate on Rubio”-piece.
Sorry, G17, I get the same feeling.
by Casperian on Sep 1, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well that's clearly wrong...
Its certainly a let’s hate on David Kahn piece, but says nothing about Ricky or his potential in the NBA.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you guys should tell Bill Simmons to take down all his posts then
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I´m not saying you should take it down...
but I was about to quote the exact same thing spence quoted after me.
If you consider how people hate on players that “don´t pay their dues” and primma donnas who want it their own way (e.g. not playing for the team that drafted them), it´s clearly not appropriate to assume that Rubio falls in this category.
by Casperian on Sep 1, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what?
This has nothing to do with Ricky! Where are you getting that from dude? I think its a tremendous deal for Ricky and I wish him well. I’m absolutely flabbergasted that you somehow took that I called him a primma donna from that piece?
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Faaan-tastic. The Wolves are your first option! Hooray! Or Ricky can force a trade, which will be for pennies on the dollar as the Wolves now have ZERO leverage.
by Casperian on Sep 1, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
....so?
Ricky negotiated his way into a superior bargaining advantage? Your implying some sort of negative connotation in that quote that isn’t there. The whole point is that the Wolves played this poorly.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Rubio didn´t negotiate himself in a superior position, he had to buy himself out of his contract. We´re talking about millions of Dollars for an 18-year-old kid that could have a career-ending injury tomorrow. It´s is completely normal for european players – in every sport – to choose security in playtime and money over the chance to become a megastar in another country.
I think it´s called “Hegelian Dialectic”. Your article basically challenges posts like the one from Title 18. You call Kahn the problem, people will (rightfully) disagree, and someone else will come in and say “It´s all Rubio´s fault”, when in fact, both sides can live with the current agreement.
Your article is simply not very balanced, and doesn´t show why Rubio says he stays in Spain, and on top of that, implies your own assumptions as Rubio´s reasons…and your touting a horn that already exists (that Rubio is a Prima Donna) here, so all you do is feed pitty stereotypes.
by Casperian on Sep 1, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re applying some pre-conceived notion the article, but that’s fine its your opinion.
Prima Donna is your phrase, not mine.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish it would have been about that.
Since that’s factually correct.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Sep 1, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
Rubio thinks he’s not ready for the NBA? Fine, but don’t feed us this PR non-sense. If it’s true that Rubio would effectively have to pay in order to play for the Wolves NOW, when he could play for free (and subsequently be paid) for the Wolves after two years, then fine. The “uhh I’m not ready for the NBA it’s too much” line didn’t amuse me at all.
by Tai on Sep 1, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"wow. just wow."
“Faaan-tastic. The Wolves are your first option! Hooray! Or Ricky can force a trade, which will be for pennies on the dollar as the Wolves now have ZERO leverage. Or maybe Ricky will just wait it out and go back in the draft once the Wolves’ claim lapses.”
This is just wrong. It’s not that I don’t agree. This is wrong.
I really don’t care but I usually hold this blog to a higher standard than this.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so i made the suggestion
and now i’m getting a pretty pointed reaction.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not trying to be difficult but
how is that wrong exactly?
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because they haven't lost any leverage
he’s highly likely to improve considering his age. the wolves hold rubio’s NBA draft rights as long as he plays pro ball. what’s he going to do, quit playing to spite the wolves? never come to the NBA?
the wolves knew he was going to stay in spain. the night they drafted him, they made note of it. they also drafted a guy who plays the same position with the next pick. nothing has changed.
look, nobody’s perfect, and i usually like Green17’s stuff - but it’s like the draft ended 5 minutes ago and you guys posted this without thinking.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. They hold it for 3 years, then lose it.
There is no point in drafting a guy who might now play for you. A guy young enough to stay in Europe, and talented enough to earn a good contract in Europe. Unless tey trade him, they will lose his rights. He will force their hand.
You are wrong ssspence. You do not waste the #5 pick. I would only give Kahn credit, if he just wanted to get rid of the contracts, and that’s all.
Minny has NO leverage. You need to see that.
by wondahbap on Sep 1, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no offense, wondahbap
but i’m not interested.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever
at the end of the day, you just don’t like this article and maybe it lowers your opinion of the site overall – it happens
consider the feedback received
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, i think it's a poor article
it’s a compliment to you that the standards of this blog are so high. and i’ve never questioned them before.
i find it disappointing that a fair criticism is taken with such sour grapes. a lot of sarcasm coming out of you and green17 here.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and now my comments have been moved down from the top of the page?
pretty sad.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody moved your comments
if someone responds to a comment directly it pushes other below it down
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when it was the first on the page
how does it get pushed down?
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't...
Your comments were second and third. When more and more people responded to the first comment, your comments got pushed down.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Sep 1, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mine was the first posted
followed by casperian, and then i replied to his about removing the article.
thus my reaction. if you say it didn’t get moved, then something else happened. over, let’s move on.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure what you're referring to...
The comment system is the same one that’s been in place for several months, allowing posters to comment in “trees”, i.e., comments branch out from the original one. In other words, the staff hasn’t done anything to move your comments.
As for the original criticism, I just see “maybe you should take this down” as unduly harsh. A lot of people will disagree with G17’s opinion, but to basically say that he shouldn’t voice his opinion seems unfair to me. I’d rather encourage you challenge G17’s reasoning, and offer a counter-point.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Sep 1, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i typically would make a counter arguement.
but this article offered no counter perspective to begin with. take steve’s commentaries for example: a thorough arguement is made, with thoughtful ‘other side of the coin’ perspective, and without all the silly poo-pooing and exclamation points. and if i dare to disagree, i shouldn’t be bombarded with sarcasm from the poster and prez of the blog.
this belongs in the forums.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you guys have a problem with what I’m saying feel free to write me a personal message.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you didn't disagree
you presumed to tell us how to run the blog, which is kinda offensive
I probably should have just dismissed it off hand
so if I offended with my sarcasm, I apologize but I stand by the decision to leave it on the front page
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I can do is give my perspective...
It wasn’t to bombard you, but rather a gentle reminder (from my viewpoint) that comments like “this shouldn’t be on the front page” aren’t overly constructive.
Yes, G17 puts his stuff out there for public consumption, but “this wasn’t good enough to be published” (essentially) just doesn’t generate much that’s positive.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Sep 1, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gentlemen ~~
i’ve now been told that i made no counter arguement and told you how to run the blog.
i made a clear arguement immediately before suggesting “maybe you should take this down”.
others have certainly pointed out how things have become a bit too oligarchical here lately. i’m feeling that for the first time.
maybe i misunderstand what the front page is for. but i sure hope this isn’t what it’s for. should i censor that feedback?
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
I didn’t want to respond here cause I thought you were moving on. Instead, you keep posting, so I guess I’m ok to weigh in.
I’m not gonna say you were told how to run the blog, but saying “you should take this down” did go too far.
As far as I see about Rubio, Green17 pointed out that Rubio may either force a trade or simply go back into the draft. Either of these scenarios are possible, and I suggest you say why you think otherwise instead of asking Green17 to take down his blog post.
I agree with Birdbrain that Rubio’s going back to Spain because he’s a prima donna and doesn’t want to play for the Wolves; they’re not a high market team, and like Bill Simmons said in his twitter post, Rubio can’t get sponsorships and what not to cover the costs of the buyout.
I do not buy the idea that Rubio feels that he’s not ready. So, if Green17 implied or explicity said this, just because you disagree doesn’t mean Green17 needs to take his blog post off the front page. Rubio may very well screw over the Wolves, and right now, I don’t trust him. You do? Fine. But be a bit more tactful.
by Tai on Sep 1, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his trade value is unaffected
if he plays well, he’s worth more.
you don’t trust rubio? you think he’s going to tank his career to spite the guy who tried to help free him from his 8mil buyout?
the trade market is just that, a marketplace for the highest bidder. this is really no different from the business of MLB prospects. over the next two years, if teams want him, they’ll pay for him.
why are you writing me about this when i’m asking jeff and roy a question?
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my last word
this whole thing seems pretty silly really
I was taken aback at first, but I’m over it
if you want to PM me, great, but I’m moving on
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well said Tai
I was about to post something along those lines, but you’ve summed it up for me.
If Rubio didn’t think he was ready for the NBA, he wouldn’t have entered. If he went to a big market team, he’d be on the team right now. In two years the T-Wolves will be just as bad as they are now most likely so what is going to make Rubio a) want to come to Minny, and b) want to sign a longterm deal there?
The Wolves gave up on a young guy in Foye for essentially nothing. There is no way Rubio wants to play with Minny, and he won’t have enough experience in the league to garner a huge trade for the Wolves if he ever joins them.
Nobody has wanted to play for Minny since KG, and I can’t see Rubio being the next…
Nobody thinks he is going to tank his career, but nobody thinks he will spend it in Minny either…
by jimmyt on Sep 1, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'lll defer to Roy
I’m not sure how long you have the rights to someone (don’t we still have the rights to Sesar?)
however, I honestly think staying in Spain for the rest of his career is indeed an option for Rubio
but that’s my opinion
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he does stay in spain, what did the wolves lose?
you think it’s worth the risk? a potential star player for foye?
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio is catalan...
and it´s an honor for every catalan to play for the FC Barcelona.
Really, that´s a pretty big deal for many catalan people. (Look FC Barcelona up at wikipedia)
And his new contract has a clause to to let him go for free after two years. Rubio definitly wants to play in the NBA. He would be foolish not to.
We´re not talking about Vasquez-talent level here, Rubio is in a completely different category. If he wants to make the most (money)out of his talents , he will have to play in the NBA, eventuially.
It´s simply smarter to stay in Spain for two more years, to have the security to get the playing time, and keep the money he would lose if he had to pay his own buyout.
by Casperian on Sep 1, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This are the second person...
on this thread to state that the Wolves lose his rights in 3 years. WHERE do you get this incorrect idea? They only lose is rights if he sits out a year.
by nextmove on Sep 4, 2009 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he wasnt drafted with the 5th pick it wouldnt be such a big deal… but he’ll be 20 when he comes back and far more developed… this isnt as big as a blunder as the magic drafting fran vazquez #10 and him later saying he has no intention of ever wearing a magic jersey
by MS12 on Sep 1, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it as a huge problem, either
The Twolves aren’t going to be a playoff team in the near future. Therefore, using a pick on a potentially elite player who won’t play in the league for two years isn’t a bad thing.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Sep 1, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As stated before THIS IS WHY they took so many PG’s in last years draft, and next year they’ll draft high again. Then eventually Rubio will just drop to them in his early 20’s. This is a good move in my book.
by jesse_stoneham on Sep 1, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also, the Twolves hold Rubio’s rights until one year following the expiration of his last basketball contract. Therefore, if he plays in Spain, he’d literally have to sit out a year to become a free agent.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
by Roy_Hobbs on Sep 1, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rebuilding
Kahn’s been very active so far this offseason, and has a ton of expiring contracts/projected cap space to show for it.
A core of Al, Kevin Love, Flynn, and some other youngsters (Gomes, Ellington, and defensive specialist Brewer) is not too bad at all.
I was never much of a fan of Foye either.
by Lucky17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
With that line of reasoning Red would have failed by drafting Larry a year early.
by chanter on Sep 1, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Or the Spurs would have passed on Robinson…
by BballTim on Sep 1, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree, Epically
The TimberPups ain’t going anywhere in the next couple years and Flynn is more than capable of handling the PG duties in the interim.
Rubio now gets an extra 2 years of development and the Wolves don’t have to pay for it—in fact, they’ll get 2 extra years of greater production on the other end because of it.
It’s about perspective, Green17, and you’re taking a very short-sighted view.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Sep 1, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
off-topic, but i'll post it here as it's the top story on the blog at the moment..
magic fan here, just wondering what the status is on kg’s knees? i mean it’s probably the biggest issue for you guys this year and i haven’t read anything regarding if he’s back to 100% or not? any word?
www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04
by mhetrick14 on Sep 1, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow...surprised by the reaction.
Kahn risked a big rebuilding chip in Rubio, who pretty clearly doesn’t want to come to Minny. Everyone is making the assumption that Ricky will come over. I’m not. That’s the distinction.
Now Ricky has all the leverage and can just wait the Wolves out and force them into a trade. How is that not a disaster for the Wolves? They gave up guys that can actually play for a guy that has no interest in them?
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 1, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i think
you need to suggest an alternative course. its not clear where you wish “KAHN!!!!” would have gone (btw a pic of Kirk in trek 2 should have been used) with pick numero cinco. so it just sounds like a negative piece:
“kahn screwed up because rubio is staying away for two years and then will force a trade. epic fail.”
by Brendan on Sep 1, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that he has no interest in Minny...
It’s that he has no interest in spending $5 million to play there right away. If he’s drafted 1 or 2, or plays somewhere where he can get major endorsement $, it makes financial sense. To come to Minny now is basically to play for free for 2 years. To come in 2 years costs him nothing. Kahn knew this going in, which is why he hedged his bets with Flynn. Instead of a raw guy like DeRozan or Hill, or an undersized guard like Curry, he’s got the rights to the 2nd most talented guy in the draft. I don’t see an epic fail here at all.
by thatmarvelousape on Sep 1, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly...
i agree, good assessment. rubio may be an unproven talent (in the NBA) but he’s the best pick out there outside griffin, imo. as i always view the draft, always get the best talent available regardless of position and ‘willingness to sign’ w/ your team because he’s a ‘chip’ or an asset. if the position becomes redundant, then trade the asset to the best deal available that in turn becomes another ‘asset’ for the team.
i really don’t think kahn wasted anything here.
by jaimsitecom on Sep 2, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Wolves hold...
an extremely valuable asset that will do nothing but appreciate with time. Who else gives them that value at the 5/6 pick? DeRozan? Curry? These are guys that REFUSED TO WORK OUT for the Wolves. The Wolves will get an established wing player and a #1 pick for Rubio. Rubio was the only pick at that slot.
by nextmove on Sep 4, 2009 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I side more with Green17 on this one
the critical part is that they made a trade to get this pick
they sent Foye (a former lottery pick) and Miller (a decent player and expiring contract) out of town for this pick and got 2 years of nothing
had they held onto those pieces and drafted Flynn, they would still have Foye and Miller to offer at the deadline
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Sep 1, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's Far From a Disaster
Rubio will be 20 when he comes into the NBA. He will be a huge trading chip, even if MN doesn’t keep him, and in two more years he will be more experienced and fully developed. Plus, the Wolves save the 7-8 million dollars they would have had to pay him.
Who should they have taken with pick #5? Stephen Curry (undersized)? Jordan Hill (raw)? Demar DeRozan (who will be a huge flop IMHO)? They had no attractive alternative. And they gave up nothing of real value to get the pick. Foye was a flop at pg and too small to play sg, and Miller is an aging shooter who doesn’t play defense any more.
The real losers are NBA fans, because Rubio is an exciting player.
by Brickowski on Sep 1, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the wolves took the guy for his potential and upside value in a weak draft. it was a calculated risk then, and nothing has changed.
by ssspence on Sep 1, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kahn taken like a bush leaguer!
If Kahn’ really thinks RR staying in Spain is for the best why did he invest so much time in trying to get him to play this year. Kevin McHale out replaced by “I haven’t got a clue”. 2 top picks and he chooses 2 guys who play the same position, one who seems to have no desire to play in Minnesota. What will the T’wolves be in 2 years?? Let’s offer Tony Allen for Big Al —Kahn may just go for it.
by feckless on Sep 1, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now that's well said
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Sep 1, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see...
in two years the Wolves will have Love, Flynn, whatever they trade for Rubio, as many as three #1 picks in a deep 2010 draft, and… oh, Al Jefferson (thanks, Ainge!) By which time KG will have retired and the Celtics be build around… a point guard? You’re right! That Kahn is a sucker!
by nextmove on Sep 4, 2009 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could also stay in Europe for 3 years
and the Wolves lose his rights.
Rubio has all of the leverage. If Minny doesn’t trade him, he will stay in Europe for an extra year. a 2 year deal puts the pressure on Minny. After that, he will decide his fate in the NBA.
by wondahbap on Sep 1, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
false
unless he SITS OUT the third year, Wolves keep his rights.
by Brendan on Sep 1, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQ
What if the team and player can’t agree to a contract? What options does the player have? How long does the team keep his draft rights?
The player’s options are limited. What happens depends on a number of factors:
* If the player is already under contract to, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the team retains the player’s draft rights for one year after the player’s obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA. Players are not included in the team’s team salary during the regular season while the player is under contract with a non-NBA team.
* If the player was still eligible to play in college before he was drafted, the team retains the player’s draft rights until the draft the player would have entered had he not left college early. For example, if a team drafts a college sophomore in 2005, they retain his draft rights until the date of the 2007 draft. Note that the current NCAA rules state that players lose their NCAA eligibility if they are drafted, so the player could not return or go on to play college ball.
* For all other players, the team retains the player’s draft rights until the date of the next draft.
In any of the above cases, if the team does not sign the player in the allotted time, the player can enter the next draft. If the team that selects the player in the next draft doesn’t sign him either, he becomes a rookie free agent.
When a team signs a first round draft pick in a year other than the year in which he was drafted, the player is signed using the salary scale for the year in which he is signed, not the year in which he was drafted. An exception to this is for players drafted prior to 2005, under the previous CBA. These players may be signed according to the rules for scale contracts set forth in the previous CBA, including three guaranteed years plus one option year, at the scale salary for the year in which the player was drafted.
Hence the 2 year deal he signed. So he can sit out year if he had to.
by wondahbap on Sep 1, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sit out a year?
You actually think there is a chance Rubio would not play professionally for 1 year at age 21? Take a year off? That seems rather far fetched.
by guava_wrench on Sep 1, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he would or should.
It’s a matter of leverage. The threat that he could. He would have the money at that point, so all it would be is a matter of waiting, should he be inclined to do so.
by wondahbap on Sep 1, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reread the cap FAQ
* If the player is already under contract to, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the team retains the player’s draft rights for one year after the player’s obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA.
In order to be a free agent in the NBA, Rubio would have to sit out a full year after his current contract ends. He can’t play for any other European team, or any other non-NBA professional league team.
If he wants to play in the NBA, Minnesota controls his destiny.
by Lucky17 on Sep 1, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, g_w
Was directing my comments to wondahbap, not you. Apologies for any confusion.
by Lucky17 on Sep 1, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
np. Was clear in the comment tree.
by guava_wrench on Sep 1, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blessing in disguise.
Hopefully they pick someone who can shoot and has some athletic ability.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Sep 1, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't compare this to Zeke
who among other things sexually harassed a fellow employee. This is more like Brian Shaw going to Europe.
by The Real Large James 2 on Sep 1, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha yes very good comparison.
much to do about nothing in grand scheme of things.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Sep 1, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still trying to figure out how Kahn made a mistake here. People are not analyzing the sutuation correctly.
by BudweiserCeltic on Sep 1, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if i was kahn...
…i would have done the same. rubio is a legit talent and best potential star player available. you always draft the best available player always and if he won’t sign with your team, then ship him out to the best deal possible. simple as that.
in minny’s case, if he ain’t signing even after a year or 2, then for sure the knicks and other big market team will be drooling over the wolves rights to rubio.
imo, there’s no loss here. they have a back up plan as they’ve drafted flynn who’s also an explosive pg. i don’t see any big deal (bad) over kahns decision to draft the best talent available.
by jaimsitecom on Sep 1, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think this is exactly what Kahn wanted
The Wolves are publicly committed to being bad for a year or two. Kahn wanted to gut pretty much everything that Mchale left him and start over. I think the Wizards trade was as much about getting rid of Foye and Miller as it was about who he’d get in return. I think Kahn wanted Flynn to be their point guard, but needed the PR of going after Rubio. I agree with the guy that said that Rubio was his investment, more for the future. I think Kahn had to publicly do his due dilligence like he wanted Rubio, but in the end I think this worked out exactly like he wanted…
by drza44 on Sep 1, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
KAHHHNNNNNNNNN!!!
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
by Birdbrain on Sep 1, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In 10 years this could like the .....
1978 Red Auerbach drafting of Larry Bird. While I’m not 100% sold on Rubio, I will admit if he comes to the Wolves in two years and turns into a combination of John Stockton and Magic Johnson, it’s still a brilliant draft pick as Rubio will still be only 20 years old.
That said if Rubio doesn’t buy out his contract in two years and stays in Europe or if he comes to the Wolves and proves to be nothing more than a mediocre player, it was a really stupid draft pick. Also, it’s anyone’s guess what someone will give up to get Rubio in a year or two. I don’t think it’s as bad as green17 is saying but it could be.
by nickagneta on Sep 1, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he knew the score which is why he drafted flynn
kahn knew it was a long shot to get rubio so he drafted the sure thing in flynn and he stashed rubio overseas. Rubio was the most coveted pg in the draft so Kahn has a valuble “asset” that he can use if it turns out that rubio doesn’t play for minny. Would I have drafted Rubio? No, but I understand the reasons why they took him.
by Red2 on Sep 1, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I also disagree...
I think the article is shortsighted and one-sided. No problem with it making the front page though, that’s not my call.
When Rubio fell to 5, Kahn had to know it was unlikely he’d spend $5 million of his own money to come to Minnesota ASAP. So, his options were:
- Pass on the 2nd most talented player in the draft TWICE
- Draft Rubio and try to trade the pick, with every other GM trying to steal him in the belief Minny has no leverage
- Draft Rubio, then take another PG to hedge his bets. If Rubio comes, split time or move Flynn. If Rubio doesn’t come, see if Flynn is any good while you wait for Rubio. If Flynn stinks, move or bench him when Rubio comes. If Flynn’s good, move him or keep him at backup when Rubio comes. If Flynn’s great, move Rubio for a high pick or an established player or two.
Kahn picked C, which is probably the best option of the three. As it is, Kahn gets to give the rookie scale contract to a 21yo Rubio instead of a 19yo. Same price, better player. And they get to see how Flynn is first. Basically they got a top 3 pick in the 2011 draft and a PG to try in the interim.
Nothing wrong with the attempt given the situation Minny found themselves in.
by thatmarvelousape on Sep 1, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This goes beyond Rubio...
I think one aspect of this that has been overlooked is the impression this makes on the rest of the team. Kahn has publicly stated that he doesn’t view the Timberwolves as contendors for the next two seasons and is willing to wait this out.
By making this statement and trading two veteran players (in regards to that team’s make-up) I think this is the big risk.
If you don’t think Al Jefferson is looking at the success in Boston and saying to himself “I wish I was still there” I believe you’re wrong. If you compare the way OKC has handled rebuilding compared to Minnesota, Sam Presti has rebuilt a team from scratch without demoralizing them. I think Kahn is flirting with instiling a “from the top down” mentality that the present is for development and not winning before the season has even started!
I think Kahn is one “transitional” move away from the phrase “Al Jefferson requests trade…” being published.
While developing young players is paramount in the NBA, it should be handled in a more subtle manner than the way Kahn has represented Minnesota.
I also believe that this situation is much different from Red and Bird. Red had a proven track record of shrewd management. “Blowing it up” so to speak and saying that your team, as presently constructed, will not compete before opening night is no way to introduce yourself as a GM to a city that deserves better.
by huzy on Sep 1, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You forgot to put Turkoglu on your list...
You make a valid point…perhaps I was going a bit far.
But, I can provide an even longer list of the European players, drafted by NBA teams over the years, that absolutely bombed.
On draft day, Danny never drafts anything other than home-grown {USA} talent!
by Title 18 on Sep 1, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Argument on an issue most are ignorant of...
is an exercise in futility. Take a gander over to sites like canishoopus or twolvesblog to see how peope are reacting who have followed it way too closely (like myself). It sucks and we’re pissed at Rubio, but I’d probably do it again…His potential is that ridiculous.
by Daddyfatsax on Sep 1, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In the words of Captain Kirk
KAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHNNNNNN!!!!!
by The Real Large James 2 on Sep 1, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or
no Kahn do. Only the French Kahn-Kahn. Kahn’t wait for opening night.
by The Real Large James 2 on Sep 1, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I cqn't believe folks making excuses for Kahn.
1. No one knows how good Rubio will ever be, and calling him the second best player in one of the weakest drafts in recent memory isn’t saying much.
2. What if Flynn is a totally bust? Do you draft YET ANOTHER point guard next year? Do you spend the next two years playing the equivalent of Tyrone Lue at the position?
Mike
by MBunge on Sep 1, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what about the potential lockout?
Tom Ziller from fanhouse brought up an interesting point.
There could be a lockout in 2011, which is when Rubio us supposedly going to return to the NBA. What would he do then? Obviously he’d stay oversees right?
Furthermore, when he does sign at 21 or whatever year he signs, he will be signed for what, 3 million per year? Why would he want to go to Minny for 3mil per year when he can get way more money in other countries… just saying.
by jimmyt on Sep 1, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is the bigger problem of not being able to pay rookies market value. This is particularly problematic with players coming from foreign leagues who have already proven their skill level. With the international popularity of basketball, it won’t be long until we have to get rid of the rookie pay scale and pay based on the market.
If Rubio stays overseas another year, I expect he would make sure he can leave after that year. As far as what he can earn, that is always a problem with rookie contracts, but most rookies want to play in the NBA.
How much will Rubio earn in Spain over the next 2 years?
by guava_wrench on Sep 1, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I know is, Rubio looks like my sister Janet on a bad hair day.
by no kidding on Sep 1, 2009 7:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow. Dust up at the C Blog Corral
Some good debating here. Interesting topic. And with any good debate, there is a way to view either side being right.
This has been an unusual situation with an unusual player from the start.
My own thoughts are less formed because I just don’t have a solid opinion on just how talented and effective Rubio will actually be in the NBA over a career.
by tenaciousT on Sep 1, 2009 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
By all accounts this was a weak draft. Why not take a chance on a guy, Rubio, that could be an elite talent? Even if he never plays for you, it’s better than drafting a bench guy or bust. Minnesota can’t afford to play it safe.
by slamdunk1 on Sep 2, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And how would the Kahn backers like waiting until 2012?
Seems like a strong possibility to me.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=Rubio-090902
The value of having a player than could actually contribute over the next 4 years versus waiting possibly 4 years for Ricky to maybe or maybe not succeed seems like a no brainer to me.
When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"
by Green17 on Sep 3, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Okay, so what's your alternative?
Curry and DeRozan REFUSED TO WORK OUT FOR THE WOLVES. What’s your easy fix, smart guy? Earl Clark? There were all kinds of stiffs available at the #6 pick. Which one contributes to the Wolves over the next four years?
by nextmove on Sep 4, 2009 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think so...
Just another armchair expert. Real original. Well, have fun when KG, Allen and Wallace. You’ll be right back where you were before your rent a championship season. Thanks for the great insight on Kahn’s “egregious mistake.”
by nextmove on Sep 4, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foye never panned out....
So shipping him to Washington wasn’t a huge loss in my opinion. Mike Miller played the worst of his career in Minny and wasn’t a good fit. But the fact that trade turned into nothing (Rubio) when they could’ve had Stephen Curry as a dynamic shooting guard for years to come, Kahn’s lunacy is exposed. As if it wasn’t already apparent when he drafted Flynn and Rubio back to back.
by Tradetime on Sep 4, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You aren't acknowledging the fact that Curry...
refused to work out for the Wolves. Maybe you weren’t aware of this. Worse, Curry presents the same liability that Foye did. He MIGHT prove able to exploit his fair share of 2-guards, but he will be abused just as badly on defense. Why is drafting Curry supposed to be some kind of rosy scenario in some people’s hindsight? That old “drafting 2 point guards is CRAZY” schpiel is getting old. Why don’t you acknowledge that Rubio is a valuable asset? Nobody else on the board brought HALF of the value of a Rubio pick.
by nextmove on Sep 4, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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