Did KG's Surgery Require Staples?
The guys at Celtics Hub examine KG's knee injury and recent claims by Bill Simmons that the surgery was much more complex than the team is letting on. Their determination? Simmons' and his source are basically on an island with their claims.
Of course, that doesn't mean they're wrong. However, since Simmons has a history of being sensationalistic, and his source has a history of being very, very wrong about injuries, I feel confident in saying that Simmons doesn't know what he's talking about. I'll trust Danny and KG on this one.
over 2 years ago
Roy_Hobbs
31 comments
0 recs |
Comments
Thanks for the link, but...
…I don’t think that’s what they concluded. They really never said “Simmons doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
What they did do was provide the following:
1) Reinforce that all of the team’s comments stated that there was no direct surgery on the tendon, that the surgery was removal of bone spurs that were irritating the tendon.
2) Provided dialogue with an un-related surgeon who opinionated that “a strained popliteus is a relatively rare injury for a basketball player, and that the tendon problem, combined with the bone spurs, suggests Garnett may be developing an arthritic condition… rest would help the tendon recover to 100 percent capacity, though Garnett may experience off-and-on problems going forward.”
3) State that Simmons’ source is “probably the best-known and most well-respected reporter covering the sports health beat.”
4) That Carrol, Simmons’ source, said the following:
“I can’t talk about sourcing, but heard that this was more than just a simple chip/spur removal and that there was some repair work done to the tendon itself. That’s not uncommon or even a bad thing, it’s just that it’s much more serious than they’re letting on. I think the Celtics suddenly feel like they need to be the Pats in regards to information.”
and
“Given the information I have, I don’t think Garnett’s "done" or even going to be out significantly longer, but I do worry that he’s going to have maintenance issues.”
The writers’ conclusion is:
“Of course, KG isn’t playing full contact basketball yet, and that has fans bracing for the worst. The Simmons tweet adds to that paranoia. The good news here is Carroll telling us that even if the stapling reports are true, they don’t necessarily mean KG will be limited or unhealthy all season. The bad news is that we have two prominent reporters/writers essentially accusing the organization of at least covering up the precise nature of the surgery and at worst lying about it outright.
And it doesn’t really seem like something the team needs to be evasive about.
In any case, this certainly warrants close, close attention."
Which, though certainly not doom-and-gloom, is a far cry from “Nothing to worry about.”
I have to say, that I lean toward optimism in this case and think that probably KG will be ok, but the fact that there seem to be source leaks indicating that the Celtics are lying about the severity of the procedure and no real good indications of KG’s recovery to normal health is a bit worrisome.
Eh, I stand by my description...
After reading Simmons’ panicky tweets about “STAPLES”, and the other shots at the Celtics organization, I think the CH article pretty much says Simmons doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Good posting VT fan
My wife recently had an MRI and x-rays on her own knee. Constant nagging knee pain for 2-3 months. Specialist is given her a shot which cost $750, called synvex. Used to be 3 shots, now they have a one huge one. Anyway, the DR said because of where and how the injury areas are, she is not a candidate for having it scoped or having the whole knee reconstructed although 10 years down the road this may be a probability. Not trying to get medical on everyone but here is the nuts and bolts.
The expensive shot she took takes several weeks for the fluid within the shot to do its thing. Some patients get very little relief and others have full or near full relief for a whole 6 months.
The knee is tricky, prognosis can be all over the map. My wife and I accept this news and will keep saying our prayers and crossing our fingers.
I have no problems with the Celt organization saying this knee is a gigantic question mark. But I do have concerns when an organization will not shoot straight with its fans.
by brianceltfan on Sep 23, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's quite clear
That you are inserting your own basal opinion of Simmons, which is fine, but not at question.
This is the only comment they made about Simmons:
“But now we’ve got Simmons’ tweet mentioning the tendon being stapled to KG’s kneecap. This would contradict literally everything the media has reported and everything Celtics officials have said about the surgery. "
They then point out that the following two tweets preceded Simmons’:
Kevin Garnett’s knee surgery may be getting the typical Boston treatment, but this was complex surgery. No 1, including Celts, know respond
More on Garnett — tough tendon, no comps, and for cripe’s sake STAPLES. Doesn’t that tell you, combined with last yr, that this is serious?
And that that source (Carrol) has direct sources telling him that the media statements made by the Celtics were not truthful.
Clearly you think Simmons doesn’t know what he is talking about, which is certainly a fair conclusion. But it’s just not accurate to claim that the CH article makes that same claim. Their last sentence:
In any case, this certainly warrants close, close attention.
You're right
it’s a developing situation. there was no direct denouncement of Simmons’ proclamation—it’s certainly too early to tell either way.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Sep 23, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see it that way...
But regardless, we have:
1) KG saying he’s fine;
2) The team saying he’s fine;
3) Media reports of the story suggesting there was never a staple;
4) Jeff’s sources telling him that Simmons is full of crap; and
5) Simmons’ “source” having a history of being abjectly wrong about many injury stories.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
And by Simmons being full of crap...
… I mean that there’s nothing to the story about the staple. I can use my own conjecture about why Simmons is making a huge deal about this, but regardless of my interpretation of his motives, the vast majority of sources say that he’s completely wrong.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Is this true?
Simmons’ "source" having a history of being abjectly wrong about many injury stories.
I have always considered Will Carroll to be a tremendous source on these kind of things. Are there really lots of documented examples of this? Even if they were, is he to blame or his sources? This could be a different, more reliable source.
Cause for concern either way, but I hope Jeff’s sources are accurate and we don’t need to worry too much.
I think Simmons is just worried, so he went to one of his sources (Carrol) who gave him reason to continue worrying. I don’t really think that constitutes not knowing what he’s talking about, to be fair to him. I just hope the sources you are trusting are more reliable, for the team’s sake.
For instance...
1) He reported Manny Ramirez had a torn meniscus, when he didn’t;
2) He also reported that Manny was going to be imminently traded to the Marlins;
3) He reported that Pete Rose was going to be reinstated into baseball;
4) He reported that Johan Santana was going to be traded to the Red Sox;
5) He reported that Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford was done for the season, when it’s being reported elsewhere that he’ll be back in less than two weeks.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Answering my own question...
It seems Carroll does have a reputation for being wrong on occasion, although this is usually due to information being presented to him as fact proving to be inaccurate and he normally designates anything he isn’t certain about as a rumor. So says wikipedia anyway!
He does know his stuff though, where injuries are concerned. Let’s hope his sources were off on this one too!
I’ve seen your reply now, Roy. Thanks for the examples.
Why do we need sources?
Why do we as fans have to sit back and try to make an objective outlook on KG based on Simmon’s or Jeff’s sources. In other words Celts/KG can give written permission to release any information without violating any privacy laws. These guys can set the record straight once and for all, give their own prognosis, etc. Especially since the team has already been deceptive with its fans about the knee. These doctors are medical professionals and will look at it in an honest manner. That’s all many of us fans want, just a simple honest professional answer on what was done and what is the professional medical outlook for the knee.
by brianceltfan on Sep 23, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Why should they?
What obligation does KG or the team have to release his private medical records to the public?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Releasing medical records
Let’s put it this way, come Thanksgiving we know exactly what we have with KG. There won’t be anymore surprises. This isn’t football where you have 30 key guys on a team (offense, defense, kickers, special teams) and hiding injuries is part of the violent NFL culture. This is basketball where we can put only 5 guys on the court at a time. There was no “decoy” strategy in the NBA playoffs that we were going to pull the wool over the Magic, Bulls, or Cavs’ eyes. Shame on Celt management for treating their fans the way they did.
You are asking me why should the medical staff be given permission to speak freely on the injury? Because Danny played games with us fans last spring/summer on this very issue. And they are already coming out saying something which is in contrast that is being reported (staple issue).
Like I said, trade rumors always come and go. This is your run of the mill rumor. This knee is the most important part of us getting #18 or falling short. Celt management already played us as fools on us before. They owe it to the fans to come clean once and for all. They are at no means obligated to share the records, etc but it will go along ways in getting some of the fans back in the good graces and it would also stop some of the rumor nonsense if that’s what it is.
If Celt management is going to come out and say everything is okie dookie, then why should they put a muzzle on the medical staff that did the procedure and can give their own prognosis? There have been hundreds, thousands of times sports athletes have had operations and team officials have turned to the Dr who performed the procedure and said let Dr so and so answer it all. It simply gets the monkey off the Celt management back once and for all.
For one I’m not 100% trustworthy of Celt management and two, if they are really trying to tell the fans the truth which you seem to believe whole heartedly, then why not let the medical staff give us an informed press conference?
by brianceltfan on Sep 24, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay,
But that’s not what the article says. I was posting that to make sure people who just read the front page didn’t just say “oh, Celtics Hub says Simmons is full of crap!” and move on. I’m hoping people read the story themselves because I don’t think your interpretation of what’s actually written is accurate.
For you to come to the conclusion that Simmons is full of crap is fine, but Jeff’s sources were not part of the article, nor was the history of Simmons’ source. If you want to expand and give and defend your opinion in addition to linking to the article, I would certainly read that, as well as your conjecture as to Simmons’ motivations (in fact I’d definitely read that). But that’s not the article abstract, that’s your response.
Well, as someone who did read the article
I do think Simmons is still full of crap. At the same time, I do see that the possibility of KG having staples wasn’t completely ruled out. But, they did say it probably won’t affect KG all that much if he really did get staples, that he should be fine for the season.
No need for a headline
No need for a headline telling us that Bill Simmons is full of BS.
The man makes a living writing sensationalized falsehoods about players, coaches, and teams. It’s truly mind boggeling that anyone affiliated with the league, much less the Celtics, will speak to him on any topic (and they probably don’t and is the main reason his “sources” are always dubiously “unnamed.” He doesn’t have any real in-league sources. This bit about KG’s surgery is a prime example of his need to say something to stir up readers of his column. It’s dying an ugly death.
Still awaiting the public apology he owes Glenn Rivers, and there is some major karma coming his way for the despicable things he said about the man. The only consolation here is that soon espn and readers will grow tired of his schtick and he will pass on into the graveyard of forgotten sports sensationalists.
The news {KG`s knee} keeps getting worse and worse!
If staples were NOT involved…why don`t the Celts just come out and say so?!?
Their silence gives much credence to these rumors…and there is no way staples can be a good thing.
I tend to disagree...
Why should the Celtics respond to every crackpot rumor? Danny already came out and definitively said that the tendon wasn’t touched. Presumably, that means with staples, as well.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I've always enjoyed Simmons
Because I have a sense of humor. But there’s nothing funny about rumor-mongering with no basis in fact. We will see within the next month what KG’s level of recovery is.
I hope he comes back as strong as he was in the Championship season!
by nba is the worst on Sep 23, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions
Right there with you . . .
I used to think his draft logs were the greatest thing to ever hit sports media. Then he started with his soapboxing on Rivers, and then he made the attacks personal, and then he made even cruder remarks about the man’s integrity . . .
Clearly, his only interest is in generating some buzz, any buzz, about his column. Even if it means just making up rumors and “inside information.”
Celtics should absolutely respond about KG's knee
First of all this isn’t any “crackpot rumor”. This is the best player on the Celtics. This is the NBA defensive player of the year during #17. KG’s knee is very possibly the reason why we come up short or make it back into the finals. Lastly, the Celt management has already been caught deceiving its fan base already. So if there is one and only one “crackpot rumor” you want to bury for good, as a fan this is the one I want. Why should we as fans have to put up with “nonsense” if the staple rumor is nonsense? I as a fan would like to know that Simmons has egg all over his face and move on. Even without staples, KG’s knee may still have giant question mark on it.
Celts/KG simply need to allow the medical surgeons to speak freely on what was done and what their professional diagnosis is. This make perfect common sense last spring, it makes perfect sense now. This is totally different from the run of the mill trade rumors that come up every summer, etc. Eventually KG will practice, plays some exhibition games and after a dozen or so regular season games we will know what we have. Very shameful for management to treat the fan base the way they have with this incident. I’m a huge fan. I like the Sheed/Daniels moves other things too. On the handling of KG’s knee, the Celts get and will continue to get a giant F.
The team already responded...
Danny addressed this earlier in the off-season. Why should he do so repeatedly?
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
A new address by Danny is needed and not just by Danny but medical staff
Look, we were told no tendons were touched. All the earmarks of a simple procedure that KG had. This staples to the tendon, a lot more complicated operation, etc, etc, has resurfaced.
So Danny was more or less caught in a “lie” about the knee during the playoffs. And then he says the operation was a huge success, only part A & B were done on it. Now new rumor saying it was not just A & B, it was much more complicated, tendons were stapled, etc. New rumors.
Danny has lost credibility on this issue. Maybe he is telling the truth and Simmons/and his source is blowing smoke. These medical doctors have no “dog in the fight” when it comes to what their opinions are of KG’s future and what was exactly done. I’m sorry , you can buy in to Danny all you want but I see the guy playing games with half truths, hiding information, etc. His behavior has been no better than a shady politician on this. We fans deserve to hear the truth from the professionals (doctors). Why Drs who perform potentially serious operations are allowed by teams to discuss the matter hundreds of times, yet the Celts won’t let it by done on KG’s knee operation only heightens my suspicions on Danny/management. Bottom line is, all the cloak and dagger stuff didn’t do squat for or against us verse the Bulls/Magic and it won’t do anything to benefit us or hurt us in the upcoming season. The knee will be what it will be, hiding any negativity on it, if there is hidden negative news they are hiding will just piss off the fan base more.
by brianceltfan on Sep 24, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, I do trust Jeff
You seem to basing your posts based on not wanting to trust DA. Jeff says his sources thinks this is hogwash. Do you trust Jeff?
Anyways, if you have season tickets, I’ll buy ‘em off you if you don’t trust the team that much. : ))))
What other teams are having their doctors give press conferences?
I don’t think the Celtics are alone in not having their doctors fully disclose medical procedures performed on their players.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
By the way, some further information from a CH commentator...
There are so many mixed messages ouyt there on KG’s knee, it’s getting ridiculous. The popliteus tendon does not originate, nor insert into the patella. It’s on the posterior aspect of the knee joint. That leaves you with a quadriceps tendon as the main player on the front of the knee. Nobody is mentioning anything about the quad tendon that I am reading. so "stapling to the kneecap" is a BS statement in more ways than one.
The only reason you’d ever perform a fixation at the quadriceps tendon is if there was a significant tear. If KG had a significant tear, pain alone would have prevented him from practicing on it last year as we heard he was in an attempt to come back.
This contradicts Simmons’ tweet that “1 more KG note: This wasn’t a typical knee injury. They had to re-attach tendons to his kneecap with staples.” Of course, I have no idea if this poster is qualified to offer this opinion, but he certainly sounds credible.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Trust KG?
Um, has he said a word? to my knowledge he hasnt spoken to the media at all
























