Wallace or Perkins: Who Starts?
Obtaining Rasheed Wallace gave the Celtics one of the most dangerous and complete big men available in free agency.
Many fans feel that Kendrick Perkins should be the de facto starter. He has earned that right. It is a chemistry thing because this will be year three together for this starting unit. You want to keep starting units together.
On offense, Perkins moves in down low. Garnett sets up outside. On defense, Perkins is the goalie. Garnett jumps out at the top to get the ball out of the point guard’s hands, then gets back into position quickly. It works.
You want to keep starting units together….. unless it makes the team better or stronger to do otherwise.
The good thing is that Wallace doesn’t seem to mind becoming coming off the bench for the first time in his career.
Ronald Uhlman, Yahoo Sports right after Wallace signed with the Celtics….
He wants that so badly that he’s even willing to come off the bench after being a starter in his 14 previous seasons. For his career, he’s averaged 34 minutes, 15 points and 6.9 rebounds with 1.4 blocks.
"Two minutes, 30 minutes, whatever, as long as I’m contributing to the team for the `W,’ " Wallace said. "If I score a point and we win, hey, it’s the sorriest point I’ve ever scored but we got the win. That beats 100 points and a loss any day."
Could I envision it being any different? It is possible.
The most likely scenario is that Kendrick Perkins continues to start, but Wallace will get more 4th quarter minutes. Perkins 4th quarter point production is low and he is not a strong foul shooter
Doc Rivers has a front line option this season he hasn’t had before. Wallace gives the Celtics another long defender/shot blocker of the highest order.
On defense I give Perkins the edge at this stage of each of their careers. Offensively, it is, of course, Wallace.
While it may come down to match ups. I think it may be also be about what is best over 48 minutes.
Perkins has shown two characteristics as a starter. He starts fast offensively and he starts with a tendency to foul. Historically, Doc doesn’t play Perkins as much in the 4th quarter anyway. His 4th quarter production is low. Are his minutes are less because his production is low or is it vice versa?
Boston also did not have strong 4th quarters last season. It was, by far, their worst quarter in terms of net points.
Let’s look at Boston’s production (net points) quarter by quarter:
Game: +7.5
1st quarter: +2.6
2nd quarter: +1.8
3rd quarter: +2.5
4th quarter: +.5
Some of the low 4th quarter production is due to blow outs (both ways), where the second unit is in for a larger portion of the game.
But a look at the Cavaliers, the team with the biggest winning point spread (+8.9) reveals their 3rd quarter as their weakest (+0.6) but a +2.0 in the 4th.
The Celtic players all say that fatigue wasn’t an issue. But the starters didn’t close as strong as the previous year either.
Without going into a popcornmachine.com game-by-game 4th quarter look at the units that Boston played in that quarter, I think it is reasonable to say that the weak bench contributed to the problem. They couldn’t hold leads all that well. I’ll leave it open as to what other things may have contributed. No doubt not having Garnett for 27 games didn’t help. But even with KG, the team struggled a bit in the second half of the year.
Kendrick Perkins was often pulled for James Posey in the fourth quarter the year before. He played more 4th quarter ball this past season. But it was still his lowest PT and production of the game.
Here is Perkins QbyQ production (minutes are rounded):
Q Minutes points FGA FG% reb. blks
1st 10:20 2.8 2.2 56% 3.0 0.6
2nd 5:20 2.0 1.4 60% 1.6 0.4
3rd 9:55 2.8 2.1 57% 2.5 0.6
4th 4:00 0.9 0.6 na 1.0 0.4
(4th Q approx. KP did not qualify with <300 minutes )
Wallace:
Q Minutes points FGA FG% reb blks
1st 10:30 3.9 3.2 47% 2.5 0.5
2nd 5:48 2.0 2.1 38% 1.4 0.2
3rd 10:30 3.9 3.5 43% 2.4 0.4
4th 7:40 3.2 3.0 37% 1.7 0.2
Caveat: These numbers won’t necessarily equal the season averages because neither player played every quarter. The averages shown are per quarters actually played – not over 82 games.
Example: Perkins played 80 first quarters, but only 74 second quarters – averages reflect games played for that quarter. They indicate actual production when playing.
All I wanted to show above is how the minutes and production have gone for each player.
Other Things to Consider
There were many times the team got out of the gate slow. It seemed as if they knew that they could come back on most anyone – and that was true. But it’s not a great habit to get into.
Would Doc try starting Rasheed to give the team more offensive punch to start the game?
His outside shooting could draw out interior defenders and help clear lanes for Rondo and Pierce.
If his defense is solid, it saves Perkins fouls and energy for later in the game. It also gives the second unit the team’s best interior defender. That compliments Glen Davis at both ends of the floor, if Glen’s role is to continue to be a floor spacer and spot up shooter.
Thoughts on Wallace
I know that many power forwards (few centers) can step out and hit the three. I’ve always wondered how they can do that and still be effective around the hoop and as a rebounder. Yet players like Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett (18 footers), Dirk Nowitzki, as well as Rasheed Wallace have managed to find a way to do just that.
Still, I think that Rasheed’s biggest help will occur around the hoop on both ends of the floor. That is where he was born to play. Rasheed’s blocks went down and his long balling went up last season. I’d like to see a reverse in that trend this year.
Doc has always stressed attacking the hoop. Because they are an excellent shooting team, the Cs settle for the jumper at times.
For the moment, it seems as if Wallace’s interchangeability with either Garnett or Perkins makes having him come off the bench as the ideal role. Foul trouble with either KP or KG can bring in Wallace and not miss a beat.
That Wallace can float inside or out, yet always require a defender to pay attention, his big game experience and comparably better foul shooting (77% last season) seems to make sense to insert him in close games in the 4th quarter.
While I see Doc experimenting with different line ups and certain situations where Wallace starting might be better, Rasheed as 6th man just looks right most of the time.
It is a nice problem to have, isn’t it?
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Good question but doesn't need over-analysis
I don’t think too many knowledgeable Celtics fans would disagree with the scenario where Perk starts because he has earned it and is prideful. 4th Quarter may be a different matter. If we are catching up, Rasheed is probably the choice. If we are buckling up the defnesive chinstraps, probably Perk.
As you said, a good problem to have.
jimmyt
Don’t think it is much of an issue. I think you start Perk, and then when he picks up two fouls in the first five minutes of the game, you put in Rasheed. Rasheed will get his minutes whether he starts or not, that is for sure.
by Jimmy Toscano on Sep 29, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure why i wrote jimmyt in the header...
guess i thought i was signing in? haha
by Jimmy Toscano on Sep 29, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
CelticPride18
I’m going to start doing that now.
by CelticPride18 on Sep 29, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t know where his biggest value is as far as balancing the units. I would say this though, our starters will be much better with him than with Perkins, I guarantee it.
by BudweiserCeltic on Sep 29, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions
Perk should start because...
If it ain’t broke do not fix it.
Besides being our current starting center Perk is also our center of the future, so why yank him from the starting position he has earned and deserves.
Also you do not want to mess with the nice chemistry our current starting 5 have by starting Rasheed.
Thats not a knock on Sheed as he has the talent to start for us, but just I think it is best route and most fair one to take.
Plus he has the chance to be the best sixth man in the NBA this year so for that reason I think he should come off the bench.
starting time
tenaciousT great job…well thought out…KG minutes will be limited early in the season (based on the history of like injuries) so we might see both Wallace and Perk starting….especially during back to back games..again T, super job….
thanks fastbreak.
Didn’t really think of that about KG.
by Tom Halzack on Sep 29, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ll notice Wallace’s real value with Rondo and Pierce. Those guys will have a field day attacking the basket, especially when Garnett is also on the floor.
by BudweiserCeltic on Sep 29, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
Thats very true........
Great point BudweiserCeltic, just like you say one of Rasheeds value this year is that he will make other players so much better.
We must not overlook that weapon aspect of Rasheed game which he will give us on the offensive end this year.
with rasheed in the starting lineup we would clearly have the best lineup in the nba. Kendrick perkins coming off the bench tho would be a huge change for him and he may not adjust to it well.
Rasheed has so much talent, ability, and skill that i dont think it makes any difference wheather hes a starter or comes off the bench.
Options, Options, Options...
I agree. When you are as stacked as the Celtics are, adding a guy like Wallace can only give you flexability. Say we are playing the Bulls: let’s try a Perk, Wallace, KG front court for a couple five minute stretches. Rose can’t drive anymore and their offense takes a long time to recover. Just an example. I don’t care who starts; I like options. I like the ability to shut any team down. This team can do that.
On the offensive end, options again. KG and Wallace open the floor and Rondo and Pierce have a field day… layups all day long. Want an answer for Shaq? …Wallace. Shaq can guard him outside of the paint.
Nice problem or great opportunity?
Thanks for the thought starter T. Why not mix and match all kinds of starting lineups, with the exception of Rondo? I don’t think Ray or Paul or KG need to start to make sure their heads are in the game. I don’t think egos would be crushed by not starting – or at least they shouldn’t be, and if they are, maybe a little humility is what the Doc should order?
Starting Rondo, with varying combinations of Paul, Ray, KG, Perk, BBD, Sheed or Quissy could aid development of chemistry and keep opponents off balance. If a game is on the line, it’d be pretty easy to guess what five would be on the floor.
thats a little too much
you need to have a sense of normalcy, you don’t want to be changing starting lineups every game. a player needs to know what their role is, and that won’t happen if they’re starting one game and coming off the bench the next. it might throw off the opponent, but it will also throw off the celtics. theres a reason why the worst teams in the league are also the teams that trot out the most different-starting-lineups in the league
Agree when there is unproven talent, but . . .
with three hall of fame stars and four other proven starters, what is normal? Has any team seen such possibilities before? I’m not so sure roles have to be as narrowly defined as they would with a group of lesser talent. If it will be important to cover for each others injuries, why not start before somebody comes up lame? Barring serious injury to Rondo, this group should gel with any one piece missing. Tenacious T just got me thinking – are we overlooking the teams greatest competitive advantage?
There's plenty of minutes for both of them.
Having Perk start and Sheed finish might be the best solution.
I’ve been dreaming of ‘sheed shredding second units. And I don’t want to wake up.
Perk has been groomed to run with the starters, I don’t think this needs to change. That said, I completely agree that matchups, hot hands, etc. ought to dictate who plays when and where, and it isn’t necessarily Perk v. ’sheed.
by Thruthelookingglass on Sep 29, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions
When Perk
dislocates his shoulder in the second game this problem will be solved.
by thereallargejames on Sep 29, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions
What's with this post?
I don’t get it. Malicious posts like these aren’t necessary.
For Those who never got passed Aesop
Perk is our Center…Period!
by BoundingRounder on Sep 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
This is silly blog stuff
Did you see Rasheed Wallace play last year, especially in the playoffs? If he’s the starting Center, forget about winning a championship. He’s just not that guy any more. By the way, since when is Wallace a center? Did he suddenly change positions at 35?
And seriously, think about the teams the Celtics have to go through — Cleveland and/or Orlando. Sheed guarding Shaq and Howard? You really want that? The guy weights maybe 230 and has 35-year-old knees (he missed 16 games last year, by the way). He isn’t physically up for that kind of beating.
Look, I drink the Koolaid, too, but I think, from the comments I’ve seen, that a lot of people on this blog are talking about the Rasheed Wallace they watched in Detroit’s championship days. I’m glad the Celtics got him. He’s going to help the BENCH a lot. He’s going to give some great minutes off the BENCH. He’s not starting. If he is, we’re in trouble.
Perk was awesome in the playoffs last year, especially against Orlando. This is crazy talk.
Rasheed is a good low post defender. He was playing injured last year too, and probably with little motivation in a realy shitty situation for just about everyone on the team.
by BudweiserCeltic on Sep 29, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Cousin It
Check 82games if you want to. Rasheed has played center almost exclusively for the Pistons and started as well.
You can question how much of his talent is left, but the guy has been mostly a center until now.
I believe that he will play quite a bit more enthusiastically this season, but we will see.
that is.....for the last three years he has played mostly center
I didn’t go back further than that.
Ben Wallace was the center on the good Detroit teams of the earlier part of the decade, and before that, Sheed played with Arvidas Sabonis in Portland.
I didn’t have to check any websites to know that. His natural position is forward, not center. He’s never been a great rebounder, and he likes to hang around the perimeter. Those aren’t great qualities for center.
Rasheed is getting up there in age, but don’t pretend you know know what he is capable of defensively. For the past few years the Pistons have been a roadblock to the Orlando Magics playoff run. The biggest reason is Rasheed and his ability to frustrate Dwight Howard. That’s nice that you can estimate Rasheeds weight, but that has nothing to do with him being able to defend the top big-men in the league. He can do it. As a Detroit fan, I watched him do it. Rasheed had an injury last season, but so did Kevin Garnett. He also wasn’t motivated at all on the court due to the drama that went on throughout the season.
He may be getting older but he can still be one of the top defending big-men in the league. He loves being physical, and he loves playing against Dwight Howard. It’s actually a very entertaining match-up.
by hoopaddict08 on Sep 29, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
KP is also a DH stopper
I guess the Celts are all set there, how does Sheed match up against Shaq?
About as good as anyone. In the past, they never really liked to double up on anyone. So Rasheed or someone like Ben Wallace, or Antonio Mcdyess would play them straight up. You can’t always win against Shaq, but Rasheed does his job.
by hoopaddict08 on Sep 30, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It's never about who starts a game
It’s always about who finishes a game
Look at Sheed with that KC Chiefs hat on...duuuude
My lowly Chiefs are 0-3 and going no where fast – get that hat off Sheed He needs to get a green clover hat on – this ain’t Christmas!!!
Tenacious T you wrote a a very good article but no more stats until the season starts – it hurts my head and my one braid
Is it Soup Yet?
lol
OK. No stats. (I’ll put them in sublimally. You won’t even know they’re there.)
muahaha.
by Tom Halzack on Sep 29, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We need to save sheed for the end of the year. One of them has to rest. Perk’s shoulder always goes out in the playoffs. I also think sheed has more of offensive weapons than Perk. I think Perk may be harder to move out of the way.
It’s like having 2 aces and which do you play?
KC Jones had the same problem – Chief or the Deadhead
no way
that perk does not start. (sorry for double negative) He so complements KG, plus I don’t think he would get the same respect from the refs if he were to come in off the bench. I do think it is credible that Perk could be used less in the late 4th quarter, though. Foul shooting being one of the reasons why. But does that mean we won’t see Rondo, a poorer foul shooter than Perk, in the 4th also? Of course not.
Last year when Sheed was still playing for Detroit the question of would he be willing to come off the bench. Sheed said no one player is bigger than the team. While I believe Sheed is still a better player than Perk offensive and defensive. I also think Perk should start. Perk plays Dwight Howard to a standstill, Sheed won’t. Now Perk has a problem with Bynum’s length and height but Sheed has his number.
After a full season of Clifford Ray’s mentoring Sheldon Williams will become a prize player. Who knows hopefully we might see dividends much sooner.
OUR FUTURE
Hudson
Giddens
Walker
Big Baby
Sheldon Williams
I don’t include Rondo or Perk because they start. I include this to show our future is also bright.
what makes Sheed a better defensie player than Perk?
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Sep 29, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Perk starts, but I'd bet we see a bunch of really interesting combinations during the season.
I think Sheed will get some time with the starting unit, and Perk will get some time with the bench unit—mostly depending on if we’re doing well offensively or defensively/where we need a boost. But ‘Sheed needs to be the one who starts on the bench if only to assure Perkins that we’ve got all the faith in the world in him as the starting center on a championship team.
In a week we won't be having these kind of conversations
There will be actual pre-season games to reflect on, and real things happening both on and off the court. This is just a hangover from a long off-season. WAKE UP, TIME FOR BASKETBALL!!
ego thing
Why does it matter who starts the games? I can´t think of anything else than this being about an ego thing!
Ancient Red said it right it´s not about who starts the game but who finishes it!
I don't think it really matters
During the regular season things even out, so average minutes are the most important question. I guess Perk starts because he balances out better with the rest of the starting 5 (for well rounded Offense and Defense.)
In the games that matter (post season) the lineup on the floor is much more dictated by the score, the other teams lineups, and tactical considerations (such as fouls, injury, fatigue) then by a preset rotation. The only time a rotation matters is when the team is controlling the game – in which case no player will be making a stink.
Also don’t discount the BBD factor – he’s probably going to see decent minutes too. I wouldn’t be surprised if all four guys play a lot with Sheldon and Scal seeing some time – to make sure the top three KG, Sheed, and Perk – are all in top form come playoffs.

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